What's your opinion of Pornography?

[Locut0s]

I'm curious as to the mix of opinions people have here about porn. Most message boards on the net are filled with young males in their teens and 20s and so the view you get to this kind of question is well...no surprise. I'm not ashamed to admit being a member of this group, young males who watch pornography. I am interested though in the views of others on this, particularly from people who's political views are generally liberal leaning, as mine are. Since the demographic here contain so many more women than most places on the net I would expect many, though I'm sure not all, to have a negative view of porn.

One thing that must be clarified here first though is what I mean by porn, since everyone seems to have a different definition. I am talking about mainstream hardcore pornography here, not Playboy and also not the "extreme" end of the definition either. There are many on both the left and right who rail against the dangers of pornography, that it is exploitative of women, that it damages families and relationships etc... While I don't deny that there is some truth in these statements I personally fell that pornography has its place though, as a substitute for a purely sexual relationship. I would much rather regularly watch porn than be like those men who are constantly "on the prowl" for their next sexual encounter, I see this as far more exploitative. However I also understand, am open to, and partially agree with some of the common arguments against porn.

What is your opinion?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. My opinion is...

just about everybody enjoys or has enjoyed porn at some point or another and if they say otherwise they're probably lying.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

2. Porn for everybody.

The problem isn't porn. The problem is crappy porn. America needs better porn.

In the vast majority of cases, it's not exploitative. It's actually a very well-regulated industry.

You're going to need your flame suit though.

:popcorn:

[Locut0s]

3. Asbestos and Kevlar lined suite...check nt

[Mutley]

21. Seconded!

Porn for everyone!!

:woohoo:

:applause:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

120. seconded...unlike prostitution porn is regulated

hence far less exploitative...


and there should be better dyke porn...

[flvegan]

4. First, let's define "pornography" for this question.

There needs to be a clear statement as to what porn is for the responses to this thread.

[Locut0s]

6. I wanted to but was worried the thread would be locked if I did...

Wouldn't I?

[flvegan]

9. I think that safely

for the sake of the question one could suggest that "porn" is the depiction of...well...no answer.

My porn may not be your porn, right? One man, one woman? Sexual acts? Sure, that seems like an easy answer. What about one man and one man? Two women? 5 men and one woman? 3 women and one man? 4 midgets, a donkey, an amputee and a baseball umpire?

See what I mean?

[everythingsxen]

12. Pornography is defined as....

por·nog·ra·phy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pôr-ngr-f)
n.
Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.
The presentation or production of this material.
Lurid or sensational material: “Recent novels about the Holocaust have kept Hitler well offstage to avoid the... pornography of the era” (Morris Dickstein).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pornography

[flvegan]

16. But doesn't that leave it to

the perception of the person(s) that is "creating" these "pictures, writing, or other material" then?

Also, "sexual" is defined as:
1. Of, relating to, involving, or characteristic of sex, sexuality, the sexes, or the sex organs and their functions.
2. Implying or symbolizing erotic desires or activity.
3. Relating to, produced by, or involving reproduction characterized by the union of male and female gametes: sexual reproduction.

So then, porn is just male/female then, according to numero 3, and the non-specificness of numero 1 and numero 2.

According to the first entry, of or relating to the sexes, means cleavage...hot pants. Glamour magazine...

Porn is to one person a ceiling, to another a floor.

[everythingsxen]

20. I generally assume porn is everything that is...

sexual, pseudo-sexual and/or fucking weird.

That would be Straight, Gay, Beastiality, Fetish (a list too long to compile here), BDSM, Necrophilia, "fluid" play, etc. etc. ...

I mean how hard is it for a general concensus to be gotten here? If it gets your motor going, as it were, it's porn.

[flvegan]

22. Then the vision

of my beloved, would be porn (as "it gets (your) motor going") then?

See what I mean?

[everythingsxen]

25. Sure

Why not?

Porn for some people could be a really hot poem or a song.

I think in this specific case though, we are defining film, books and magazines. Generally speaking it should have some sexual content.

[flvegan]

29. Agreed.

Hence my original post suggesting a definition. It's the sake of clarity, nor argument I'm looking for.

[NoSheep]

61. I like it. (Not violent or kiddy)...it turns me on. I prefer amateur.

I don't like my porn with a plot. Just videos of people having sex. Who could say that isn't a turn on?

[khashka]

122. I expected more from you...

Do we have to fight the porn vs erotica wars again?



Khash.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

130. I always considered them the same. . .

I must have missed that argument

[Spaceman Spiff]

131. That's a damn good point

(I love porn, BTW.)

Anyway, yes, we need a good definition of porn. Here in America the Sports Illustrated SwimSuit Edition is not seen as porn. In a place like Saudi Arabia it would be.

[Archae]

5. 99.999999% of porn is one big crashing bore.

:boring:

[Locut0s]

7. I'll agree with you on that, though...

I still find it arousing which is the point of watching it. But I agree that the vast majority is poorly acted, poorly directed, shows no imagination etc.. etc..

[everythingsxen]

10. Honestly my favorites are the really bad ones...

We saw this one, a long while ago, it was like "Sex Trek part 12" or something ridiculous. OMG, we were laughing our asses off at it...

Ever check out www.somethingawful.com horrors of porn section? It is hysterical..

[mongo]

72. Sex Trek

That's an oldie but goodie. Very young Randy Spears.

But yeah, most porn is laughable.

[Blue-Jay]

103. I remember that one! Funny stuff.

Second only to Dickman and Throbbin'.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

15. The good stuff is coming out of NYC right now.

NYC porn is better than LA porn.

[idgiehkt]

26. lol, east coast vs. west coast nekkid battle

sounds interesting.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

27. It's much less violent than the gangsta rap turf wars at least.

[mongo]

73. Can you name some companies and series?

I'm always looking for reccommendations...

[asthmaticeog]

114. Brooklyn's doing *everything* better these days. nt

[everythingsxen]

8. I liek teh pr0n!1111

!!1111!!!!

Seriously though. I do like porn. Well, specifically I like women. I like naked women. Therefore by de facto, I like porn.

[fujiyama]

42. Typing with one hand eh?

:P

[everythingsxen]

47. lol

No I just always resort to speeeeeking teh 1337 speek when teh pr0n is mentioned!111111!!

:rofl:

[liberaltrucker]

11. Boring

Should be legal, though, for the losers who get
off on it. Just my $.02.

[caty]

13. I managed a video store

for five years that had an adult room in the back. I've seen and heard it all. I've seen both men and women rent adult movies now and then. But, I've also seen people who were addicted to them. Customers who would come into the store and rent porn every single day. Some would rent a couple in the morning and return them and rent a couple more in the late afternoon or evening.
It all depends on how dependent on these movies some people get. There are some who would rather "watch" then "do". They are like peeping Toms. There are some who can't get aroused unless they watch these movies first. And, luckily, most just watch one now and then for fun.
I've seen couples split up because the husband was addicted to them.
Porn is one of those things that is o.k. in moderation--but can cause a lot of damage if taken too far.
There was an older gentleman who would rent one every Thursday morning after he dropped his wife off at the hair salon. He would return it in a couple of hours before he went to pick her up. I assumed she did not know he did this. I had a young man who had just "come out", but had never acted on it. He came in five times in one day renting two or three adult movies at a time. He told me he was using them as "instruction". This was rare, but a few times men would come in and "get off" just by looking at the pictures on the boxes. Gross!
I used to call for movies that had not been returned, listened to a five minute religious speech on their answering machine---and then I reminded them that the adult movies they rented were not returned and were late. I had a minister come in to assure himself that the fact that he rented adult movies would be kept confidential because he was up for some kind of promotion in his church and was afraid he was being investigated. I had one guy ask me to tell him which ones had plots. Plots? He had never rented one before.
There is nothing wrong with renting one now and then---just don't get carried away.

[Pale Blue Dot]

38. I also managed a video store and I agree with everything you've said.

Anything can be dangerous when not taken in moderation. I'm in a relationship now in which now and then we can enjoy porn together, but we use it as something to add a little spice. And sometimes, when she has to work an overnight, ... :evilgrin:

[Deja Q]

14. It's all I've got. I know it's not good. But it's all some people can get.

[saltpoint]

17. It should be made by much more imaginative people on both sides

of the camera.

And since it unhinges the fundie nutcases, it should triple its production beginning tomorrow morning.

[Benfea]

18. *shrug* It fills in the space between girlfriends.

One must do something with excess sexual energy, after all.

[Monk06]

19. Here's a fact. Ron Jeremy is a Freeper.

[everythingsxen]

23. Here's a fact. I could care less.

The political leanings of porn stars has about as much impact on my life as the political leanings of the person bagging my groceries at the supermarket.

One of the problems people here on DU seem to have developed over the last few years is that somehow, being a freeper is in and of itself a bad thing. A person can be a conservative if they want to. Your viewpoint is not everyone else's and this country was founded on that very basis.

[Monk06]

31. Hey I like Jeremy. I said it was a fact, not an interesting fact.

[everythingsxen]

34. lol sorry

:shrug:

I have been spending too much time in GD. :blush:

[idgiehkt]

24. I don't like violent porn

I don't like violent pornographic cartoons that I've seen on line.

But I love gay (male) porn. It's a huge turn on. I don't really like hetero porn too much, or pseudo-lesbian porn. The hottest porn flick I've seen with two women was the one with Dana Plato in it, I think it was actually called 'different strokes' lol. She was so sweet in that, but knowing the drug problem she had makes me feel guilty for saying it. I have a huge crush on Jenna Jameson, but I don't want to spoil it by seeing her films. I just like to watch her talk. She has cute eyes and an adorable smile.

I think porn is just filmed sex or photo'd naked people. I don't want to veer into a political debate about it. I know women who lack money do it. Maybe that's why I can't get into porn with women in it as much as I enjoy watching men. As far as I know men can't fake an erection, but I could be wrong (?). It's so weird because for some reason I can't watch men and women kiss anymore, like in the movies. It grosses me out. But I can watch guys. I sometimes go on a certain video hosting site and watch videos people have posted of guys kissing, I think it's beautiful. LOl, anything else you want to know?

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

28. Sure you can fake an erection,

but it's kinda hard to fake an orgasm though (I'm sure you can figure out why :P ).

[idgiehkt]

35. how can you fake an erection?

sorry, I guess I'm naive...I know there are things you can do to increase size, but totally fake one? I'm not educated, I guess.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

36. Let's rephrase. You can easily get an erection without being turned on

Hell, I've gotten stiffys in math class. It's simply the opening of arteries and constricting of veins that causes an erection anyway, which can be triggered by physical or mental stimulation, or even randomly, so you can't always assume a guy is turned on just because they have a boner. You couldn't actually _fake_ one (i.e., make it seem like you have one when you don't) because it wouldn't look the same, and it would be virtually impossible to have sex.

[Mojambo]

30. I dig it n/t

[Placebo]

32. It's wonderful.

:loveya:

[NewWaveChick1981]

33. Gotta echo what haruka said the other day...

I'm a feminist and I enjoy porn. :hi:

[plcdude]

64. enjoyed some

just this morning felt great

[Rabrrrrrr]

37. It is morally neutral - and that's a fact, and I stand by it.

Sadly, most of it is boring as hell, and only goes to show that America's tastes are base and sophomoric at best.

But pornography has no moral value one way or another. It's just naked people, sometimes fucking, most often filmed and photographed by people with no talent, taste, or sense of artistry, made for people with no sense of taste, artistry, or any kind of mature involvement with sexuality. Who cares?

[mongo]

74. Post of the fucking year Rabrrrrrr

It's amazing how worked up people on both the left and right can get over a little professional sport-fucking.

[Rabrrrrrr]

87. OMG - I think you've found the American Solution to the problem!

If we just call pornography a sport, then it can end up on prime time sponsored by companies, and will rake in billions!

Even more billions than porn rakes in now!

The athletes can wear nike sweatbands, have sponsorship for their condoms, and the cumshots can have sponsors. "This cumshot brought to you by Miller!"

"Tonight, on ABC's Tuesday Night Fuckfest, it's the Houston Astro-Glide Dome 'Black on White' night!"

[hfojvt]

100. why is that a fact?

"After all, if you believe that no one was ever corrupted by a book, you also have to believe that no one was ever improved by a book. You have to believe, in other words, that art is morally trivial and that education is morally irrelevant."

Who cares? Perhaps anyone who thinks society would be better off if so many people were not consuming mental toxins.

[Rabrrrrrr]

116. It's a fact only because I say it is.

Of course, I have no way to prove it. :7

But I can't find any reason to think that pornography is more or less moral than anything else, whether gardening or standing at a bus stop or bathing in water.

[LeftyMom]

39. I like making it.

DIY smut is fun. :evilgrin:

Most of the commercial stuff sucks, but that's okay, it gives me an excuse to stretch my imagination a bit.

[plcdude]

63. send me some of

your stuff will you?

[LeftyMom]

65. Sorry, I'm taken.

It really wouldn't be fair to flvegan to have my naughty bits all over the internets. :D

[plcdude]

66. okay

I'll just have to live with out it.

[mongo]

75. But, but -

Sharing is caring!

That's what Barney says anyway...

[Burma Jones]

40. It has snappy tunes most of the time.........

I share The Dude's attitude mostly....


Sherry in 'Logjammin': You must be about ready to fix the cable.
Maude Lebowski: Lord. You can imagine where it goes from here.
The Dude: He fixes the cable?
Maude Lebowski: Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.

[swag]

41. As with Art, I know what I like.

[fujiyama]

43. It's a healthy outlet

for sexual energy. I mean, if someone wants to watch people having sex, beats off to it, and doesn't harm anyone in the privacy of their own home, who does that harm? As long as the industry is regulated and the women aren't exploited, there is nothing wrong with it.

Let's just say that I wouldn't want to live in one of the countries where porn is illegal, because such sexual repression is NOT healthy.

[RoyGBiv]

44. The Internet is for Porn

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645&q=internet+is+for+porn

[MsKandice01]

45. The scriptwriting leaves a lot to be desired...

You just can't find a porno with a decent plot these days. So many holes, so many questions left unanswered...

[Placebo]

46. Good none of the holes are left unplugged, though...

I mean, c'mon dammit, I paid good money for this shit!

[pokerfan]

48. It's interesting for maybe fifteen minutes

It's useful between girlfriends, but of no need when with a girlfriend. I prefer to channel that energy into the relationship.

I would like to believe that no person was coerced into the porn I have viewed, or were on drugs.

I was shocked when Traci Lords was revealed to have been underage when making her films. I had no idea. A coworker of mine snuck into work the Penthouse in which she was a centerfold (16 at the time, maybe fifteen at the time the pics were shot - ewww). But what was funny about that was that he was sneaking in the issue because it had Miss america, Vanessa Williams, naked! We all gave the centerfold a cursory glance: Nice looking girl, big honkers. Let's see Miss America. I still tease him to this day that he brought "child porn" to work!

What is erotic for some is porn to another. To each his own.

What I find erotic is pretty girls. Not even necessarily naked. I don't need any dudes in my pron. Just pretty girls.

And what is erotic these days? I'm 46 and have seen it all. I have no need to see any woman whose ribs I can count. The careful reader will know that I hate anorexia for good reason.

A friend's daughter was a model (not nude) but fashion. Her career ended after she no matter what starving she did, she couldn't get her hips down. Now this girl was a size 0. I'm thinking, what hips? She needs a sandwich.

It seems all it takes these days to be sexy is the discipline to starve ones self and enough money for a decent boob job.

Let me just say: Boobs are overrated.

Let me repeat that. Boobs are overrated.

I have loved women with all sizes. None of them were happy with their breasts. Not big enough or they thought they were too big.

Trust me on this girls, it really doesn't matter and I think guys will back me up on this.

Anyway, back to porn. Like I said above, I have no need for porn when I'm in a relationship. So, I'm in a relationship back in 1990 during the Gulf War. I'm in fucking Saudi Arabia (where they cut your hand off for shit like that) and while I'm gone she finds my porn while I'm away. All it was a couple of tapes and a short stack of magazines (Penthouse, Hustler, Gallery). It all fit into a briefcase and was stored in a closet. So I return home and I'm confronted with this.

Long story short.

Porn is bad.

It kills relationships.

Porn is bad.

[Guava Jelly]

49. Hum It can be quite fun

Either watching them with your partner.:)
Or for those nights when you can't find a partner :(
As long as it's normal porn..No weird ones involving animals or body excrements.

[xchrom]

50. i like porn.

quelle surprise.

[TreasonousBastard]

51. Good stuff, that porn. Porn has been...

around at least since the Roman Empire, and if you look closely at the Book of Kells, you'll see little Irish imps with erections all over the place.

Like a lot of things, some get addicted, and others crusade against it. They got problems, and make problems for the rest of us.

[HughBeaumont]

52. It's great, as long as there are no men in it.

And it's not a boring-ass toyfest.

And the cinematography is above average and the camera-persons aren't high (as in, while there's action going on HEY, let's pan up to their face for three minutes!).

And the actresses don't phone their performances or enthusiasm in.

And the actresses have non-surgically enhanced bodies.

And you don't have some Beavis-sounding fucko off camera going "Huh huh huh huh, so could you two like, make out? Yeah, let's see you sluts kiss, like, NOW, huh huh huh huh huh huh".

This pretty much excludes 93% of all mainstream porn made in America.

[Locut0s]

90. "let's pan up to their face for three minutes"? I actually find...

that the best porn is that in which the camera pays more attention to the actors/actresses faces. Not that the rest shouldn't be shown by any means but I find that porn that is mostly closeups of genitalia to be less Erotic than porn in which you get a real sense of the people, their whole body, fucking. It's not that I prefer softcore porn, I don't, but hardcore porn could learn a lot from some of the better softcore movies.

[HughBeaumont]

101. I agree, but not when it interrupts the momentum.

I rented for action, I want to SEE the action. At least pull back to a wide shot and show the whole thing, not block out what's going on down there. What often happens is that they have no concept of scene and just pan up and stay there, blocking the action and then the action stops and we didn't even see it. Then you're left with the two changing positions and the same damned thing happens again. There's no flow with that kind of filming.

Hardcore porn needs storyboards and real directors.

For hetero porn, I agree, there should be no close-ups at ALL. More or less because when they do a close up, you can't really see anything except either man ass or hairy guy parts, and yeah, I'll just take the zero on that one, thanks. I see one penis, real or fake, BACK on the shelf it goes. 70s male porn actors, I can get into because at least they inject ironic cheesiness into the whole deal. Anything after the late 80s, they became unnecessary.

[ldf]

135. oooohh! wowww!

"as long as there are no men in it"

you are SOOOOO hetero!

i bet you shower in the dark, too.

:shrug:

[undeterred]

53. Who cares.

That's my opinion.

[rug]

54. This question is really what's your opinion of masturbation.

[Locut0s]

91. Not necessarily...

You could easily be pro masturbation and anti porn. Not that that makes any sense to me but I know some people fell like that. You can masturbate without porn after all, in fact the argument can be easily be made by the anti porn crowd that porn diminishes your imagination when masturbating without it.

[Fox Mulder]

55. Love it.

Except the BDSM and violent shit. That stuff isn't for me.

[Deep13]

56. Today's directors have no vision.

[SmileyBoy]

95. Because they've lost it from whacking off to their movies too much.

Badduldump-DING!!!!

[taterguy]

57. I enjoy it

It brings me pleasure. Of course the porn I’d enjoy the most is the porn that doesn’t exist: genuine amateur couples. I’d like to see ordinary average people enjoying each other. However, most average ordinary people don’t document their bedroom activities and potentially sell them to their neighbors. I’ll occasionally buy a DVD from the 1980s or a Candida Royalle movie. PM me if there’s anything else you want to know

[Locut0s]

92. Well Candida Royalle is mostly softcore isn't she? And real..

amateur porn certainly does exist on the net if you look.

[taterguy]

102. softcore is in the eye of the beholder

Her movies have very graphic sex but there's also plot so you might want to use the fast forward button :) Have seen lots of amatuer pic sites on the Net but don't know of any video sites that are reasonably priced

[anarch]

58. I think it's a little better than Seventeen Seconds

but not as good as Head on the Door.

[zanne]

59. Some things are just for adults to enjoy.....

That's why it's called "adult entertainment". I'm a 54 year-old woman who thinks that adults should be able to see porn if they want to. People who object to porn because of the children should just keep the children away from porn.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

60. Yes please.

:D

[noonwitch]

62. Zone porno shops to specific areas/red light districts

Unless it's kiddie porn, I don't really care what consenting adults look at. I don't want to see it in my daily life, because it's offensive, and I don't think children should have to walk by porno shops on their way to school (it happens in Detroit and Highland Park).

Zone all the porno shops and tittie bars to one area, where there are no schools or residences. Porno shops and tittie bars draw all kinds of nasty activities into their parking lots, from prostitution to drugs and who knows what else.

[mongo]

79. There was a study done in Charlotte NC

And what they found was that a McDonalds will draw more crime in a similar socio-economic area than a strip club or adult store.

[Locut0s]

93. While I agree with you that children shouldn't have to...

walk by Porno shops on their way to school I also think that Adults shouldn't be forced to go to dangerous, dirty and generally unpleasant parts of town to get pornography. Zoning all porn related businesses into one area would likely increase the crime problem and create a "skid row". They should simply zone these kinds of establishment away from school districts and residential areas but in and amongst other legitimate businesses.

[Taverner]

67. Porn is a wonderful catharsis for the world

Since we don't have the option to be Rock Gods and Porn Stars, watching it and fantasizing is the next best thing.

And it keeps married men and women faithful.

[plcdude]

68. I love it

because it makes masturbation so much more fun

[RedCloud]

69. Totally global nudity would destroy porn!

Let's all run around naked for a few years and watch how the porn industry takes a nose dive (no pun intended) as they try to keep interest petered (no pun intended)

And we could make the fashion industry lower their outrageous prices...

I see nothing but (no pun intended) wholesome goodness in this.

[Maestro]

70. The whole sex industry just needs to be more open

or it might be better to say that the government just needs to officially sanction it. I am all for setting up red-light districts in cities, making prostitution legal and regulating it. In this way, men and women involved in it might have better access to health care, the government could tax it and make some money off of it and cities could regulate where to find it.

I certainly don't want sex joints just down the street from schools but that is what is happening in some areas.

As far as my personal opinion on it, porn to me is boring after a few minutes because I much rather be doing it than watching it. ;)

[Jeroen]

71. I like it once or twice a day

[mongo]

76. My opinion

is that if I didn't sell the movies, I wouldn't be in business and able to sell adult toys - which is why my wife and I got into this business in the first place.

[TimeChaser]

81. Hey!

I almost went looking for your store as my boyfriend and I drove though Zanesvile the other week. Unfortunatly, it was getting late and we wanted to be off the road before it got too dark.

[WoodyTobiasJr]

77. I prefer the European art house stuff

I'm not talking about porn porn. This is the very hard R rated/soft x-rated movies. The Euro movies have actors that are very good looking with all their original parts AND they can act AND the movies have a pretty decent plot! Plus, it's not always in your face. You can watch the movie for awhile before a naked scene comes up.

The mainstream porn is very very dull.

[Dukkha]

78. I used to make it for a living

I designed about 100 gold sites and 700 standard sites for Adult Check. It was a great job as I worked at home and only worked 5 hours a day 3 weeks a month. I built up a bunch of templates so it got routine and easy to do. Having total artistic freedom was great and it was tax free. I made about 25/hr. The content didn't bother me or arouse me. it was just a job nothing more. I got bored quickly of looking at endless pics of bad boob jobs. The softcore was the best because you could do nice elegant designs. I usual lifted dialog from other sites and modified it.

[judaspriestess]

80. Andrew Blake movies are excellent

They are always shot on film and his movies have themes. Very nice, the music sounds like Kenny G playing in the background, and they are mainly shot in very expensive homes. Just a few examples

I don't like porn anymore, I did like watching it on occassion before. Now its all anal and I'm sorry but that is just very gross to me. Exit only for me :D

[plcdude]

82. I agree

exit only I think they are trying to be provocative with the anal stuff but I am not sure that many people have that as a frequent part of their sexual encounters. I could be wrong.

[TimeChaser]

83. Porn is fine

I'm not really into mainstream stuff, but I'll be the first to admit that I like yaoi. Yaoi's a genre of anime/manga by and for females that features male/male relationships.

[plcdude]

84. really

never heard of that. Learn something new each day. Is there any female/female relationships or solo stuff in that genre?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

85. I try and keep an open mind about it

and I think it has some practical uses. But then I think...how would I feel if that were my daughter? My son? I'd be devastated. So, I guess I just can't get past the sense that it is exploitative.

I personally enjoyed life when we were a bit more straight laced.

WELL WHAT THE HELL DID YOU EXPECT A GRANNIE TO SAY?

But I actually mean it. Excess in anything is harmful. And that includes sex. Surely there has to be a happy medium between pretending sex doesn't exist and encountering it everywhere, including in 8 year olds at pageants?

[IronLionZion]

86. same way I like my coffee

hot, black, and first thing in the morning!

We need all the porn we can get. I'm pro-porn and pro-legalizing prostitution. It's all in the name of women's rights of course. :evilgrin:

Anything that is illegal is dangerous because bad people will be involved.

[bicentennial_baby]

88. I like it

Much of it...No shame in my game.

[Lilith Velkor]

89. I like it

I don't know if you consider male/male mainstream, but there you have it.

[Locut0s]

97. Sure male/male is mainstream, or at least I consider it, It's not...

for me but there there's nothing wrong with it. For Gay men it's surely mainstream. When I was talking about "extreme" I meant BDSM, violence, bestiality etc..

[Lilith Velkor]

99. Yeah, that's why I didn't mention the hentai

:yoiks:

[TimeChaser]

104. Wheee... tentacles!

[Withywindle]

136. That's my favorite too...

M/M, that is. GODS, hot men are hot. Nothing better than two (or more) of 'em together!

(Nothing wrong with women, it's just that when they trip my wire--as they have--it's usually not on the same visceral physical level.)

And I like stories better than pictures or films; they just "work" for me better, no moral or aesthetic judgment, that is.

I don't consider "pornography" as a genre of entertainment to be any more loaded than, say, mysteries or SF or "literary fiction" about upper-middle-class-middle-aged people's divorces or what have you. You like what you like. Bothers me a lot less than war novels -- I once decided not to have a third date with a guy because his addiction to that Mack Bolan stuff creeped me out. Being skeeved by someone liking to read about people getting machine-gunned seems a lot more natural and obvious than being skeeved by someone who enjoys stories or pictures about people getting fucked. After all, fucking is a normal enjoyable part of life for most people--getting your head blown off or blowing someone else's head off, not so much.

[SmileyBoy]

94. If it's consentual, no abuse, and is within the law, TO EACH THEIR OWN!!

That's all I have to say.

[pokerfan]

96. Viva Liberty!

[w8liftinglady]

98. I like porn,and have seen quite a bit...even made some(at home)

[Fountain79]

105. The internet is for porn...

The internet is for porn
Why do you think the net was born
Porn! Porn! Porn!

Sorry Avenue Q moment...

[querelle]

106. Porn is Ok

As long as there is no real violence, children, or animals involved. Consensual sex between two (or more) adults is perfectly legal and ok. And yes I enjoy it.

Q

[MissMillie]

107. I wish there were not a market for it.

I wish that people would value each other for much more than objects.

[bloom]

108. If

There was truly equality in the world - if women were as respected as men - if words like slut and whore and bitch and cunt and pussy were not negative words while the words like "stud" and "balls" suggests some noble status...

If porn portrayed women as intelligent people instead of as objects for men...

If there was never any rape or violence involved (real OR fake)....

If no women who made porn did so because economically she felt that she had no other choice...

If nobody made porn without the knowledge or consent of the people involved....

If minors were never used in the production of porn....

If girls were never sexually abused (many women making porn were sexually abused as minors)....

and so and so forth (there is probably something I forgot)....

THEN, I would say that porn is OK.


While I understand where feminist pro-porn people are coming from - why should men have all the fun ? - IMO - porn as it is in our culture is not acceptable. Partly because as I see it as a reflection of misogyny - and partly because I think it creates misogyny.

As far as the alternative of making your own. That does remove a lot of the problems associated with porn - you don't have to wonder about people being exploited, for instance. For myself - I don't trust anyone enough - to not make it public. In fact - I have seen posters on DU argue that they see no problem in publishing porn of former lovers - with whom they had a falling out.

[querelle]

109. What About Gay Porn?

I don't think there's much exploitation going on there. Just hot man on man action. Just my 2 cents......

Q

[bloom]

112. If

none of those things that I listed apply...

If there is no exploitation of any participants, violence, minor, etc. I don't have a problem with it.

I'm sure that seems odd to say that gay porn is ok and heterosexual porn is not. But if gay porn is not inflaming misogyny - and I can't why it would - then I don't have a problem with it.

It may be that there are problems - that I don't know about. I'll leave that up to somebody else to figure out.

[Lilith Velkor]

124. You seem to have internalized a bit of misogyny yourself

Why is it OK for a man to give a blowjob on camera, but not for a woman? Hmmmmm?

[bloom]

125. The way I wrote my response

and the way I figure it - if it is being done in a way that is meant to humiliate one of the parties - then it's bad. I don't watch it - so I don't know - you probably know whether gay porn tends to be obnoxious or not.


A lot of people like to think that they are really smart by making the argument that if someone is against het porn because it is misogynist - then there is some big conflict if you say that gay porn is ok. (Or there is some conflict if you say it isn't - like it's a Catch 22 or something).

I don't see a conflict because gay porn - as far as I know - does not have the same dynamic where men are trying to reduce women to a body without a brain. Since men are not going to reduce themselves to being a body without a brain - it does not seem like the same to me. Or maybe they do. Maybe they like to play out some kind of weird misogynist thing - even though they are both the same sex.

People do a lot of weird things.

Just like women who accept a lot of things that are misogynist and pretend it's nothing.

[bloom]

127. "Patriarchy Defeated By Fellatio; We Can All Go Home Now"

http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/06/16/patriarchy-defeated-by-fellatio-we-can-all-go-home-now/

I don't know if you caught this or not - but I thought it was quite hilarious - bordering on pornographic :rofl:


This was the post that started it all (and then there were quite a few spin-offs here and there - on other blogs).

Judgmental Sex Pedantry

http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/06/14/judgemental-sex-pedantry/#comments

[bloom]

129. This was an interesting spinoff - "Let's talk about sex"

People talking about their own sex lives - which are more interesting than cheezy movies.

http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/2006/06/lets-talk-about-sex.html




Also - some good points here:

Twisty, blogging and devil’s advocacy

http://pandagon.net/2006/06/16/twisty-blogging-and-devils-advocacy/

[mongo]

115. Point by point

If porn portrayed women as intelligent people instead of as objects for men...

Some does, most doesn't. But how many sitcoms on TV portray men as intelligent, capable fathers as opposed to bumbling idiots?

If there was never any rape or violence involved (real OR fake)....

Not really that much of this in the adult DVD distribution stream. A handfull of companies trying to outgross each other, and lots of stuff on the over-porn saturated internet

If no women who made porn did so because economically she felt that she had no other choice...

Well, economically there is always another choice. Same with prostitution. People choose these things because of the money. Faced with the choice of making porn or working at McDonalds, some chose porn.

If nobody made porn without the knowledge or consent of the people involved....

Well, again this may be a problem on the internet, but there are model releases and ID checks for everyone performing in the Adult DVD distribution stream.

If minors were never used in the production of porn....

Including Traci Lords, there have been exactly three performers who entered the legitimate Adult DVD distribution chain in the last 20 or so years. All presented fake IDs.

If girls were never sexually abused (many women making porn were sexually abused as minors)....

True, but also true of prostitution. How do you propose to eliminate that? At least in the porn business there are support structures (AIM, PAW, etc.)

[querelle]

117. Good Fisking n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

118. *nice* LGF reference!

:thumbsup:

[querelle]

119. LGF?

what's that?

[bloom]

123. You missed my 1st point

"If there was truly equality in the world - if women were as respected as men - if words like slut and whore and bitch and cunt and pussy were not negative words while the words like "stud" and "balls" suggests some noble status..."


Most sitcoms do not portray men as without brains - porn does - even fairly tame photos will have quite misogynist comments. It's really obnoxious and people who are around it all the time like you are - probably don't even notice.

As far as a lot of your other comments -and the "adult DVD distribution stream" - so you are defending your livelihood. And porn isn't just what is on the "adult DVD distribution stream". Though I thought the comments of other posters who have worked in video stores to be honest and interesting.

We already knew that I don't agree with you - and you don't agree with me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

132. Frankly, I've no idea what you're talking about.

"pussy", "dick" etc. can be either positive or negative depending on the context.

I'll agree that "pussy" can refer to cowardice, and that's sexist. Don't see what it's got to do with porn though.

"Most sitcoms do not portray men as without brains - porn does - even fairly tame photos will have quite misogynist comments. It's really obnoxious and people who are around it all the time like you are - probably don't even notice."

Plenty of the sitcoms I've seen portray men without brains. Simpsons, Cheers, Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond, All in the Family, uh... Family Guy... uh... I don't watch many sitcoms. In fact the only sitcom I can think of where there's a dumb woman is I Love Lucy. God bless her. As far as intelligence in porn, I've never seen intelligence an issue in porn, except for one case where a male actor portrayed a guy with downs syndrome having sex with his rich neighbors daughter. So I don't get why you're implying women in porn are portrayed as dumb. Unless you mean these women who keep falling for the old "I was supposed to deliver these pizzas but I guess I got the wrong address, what should I do?" pick-up line. But that's not exactly flattering for the thirty-something male pizza delivery demographic either. Still, I don't know what that has to do with porn. As for these tame photos with misogynistic comments... what the fuck are you talking about?

[bloom]

134. I probably could have been more clear

I am referring to the idea that - "she may have a brain (have opinions) - but as men we don't care about that - and we are not interested in women's opinions.

I saw something very similar to that on a so-called "men's magazine" recently.


So - there may be shows (that men write) where they laugh at themselves - or maybe the point is to laugh at stupid men - so the other feel better about themselves. I don' think that you would see the idea (not much anyway - unless the women were just trying tit for tat) that women do not care if men have brains or not - that women only care if the guy's penis works. :shrug: If there is a lot of that out there - it's not on my radar.

At the very least one is a mainstream idea - who cares what women think? - The idea that nobody cares what men think - is laughable AFAIC.


Even women scientists have a difficult time being taken seriously:

Male Scientist Writes of Life as Female Scientist
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201883.html?referrer=email

I don't think that that is accidental. It's not all from porn - but porn contributes to that POV - IMO.

[bloom]

137. There

is also a problem with the idea of sex as commodification and/or competition.

I suppose a certain personality type would like the idea of turning sex into a competition. I don't think much of it. It's sort of like eating contests - where people stuff as many hot dogs into their mouths as they can - going for 100 - or whatever is more than somebody else.


There is also the problem of pornography used as a weapon. That is mostly done against women, also. Where if women were in porn that is public - it can be used against them. It seems - even by some of the people who supposedly like it.

[wildhorses]

110. whatever cocks your pistol...

trips your trigger...
floats your boat...

[XForce]

111. For Adults Only

:evilgrin:

[jonnyblitz]

113. I am 100% all for it. this is one area where progressives can

be as annoyingly puritanical as the fundie moralists. makes me :puke:

[khashka]

121. My informed opinion...

Having worked in porn. It's mostly crap That is porn is mostly crap and the arguments against it are mostly crap. How does the argument that all male gay porn defiles women work?

There is a lot of bad stupid porn... but there is some good stuff too. Stuff that is good writing or good filmmaking.

Check out Susie Bright or Pat Califia.... they have a lot of interesting things to say.....

Khash.

[Rising Phoenix]

126. most porn is great

if its all consenting adults....go for it....there is something out there for everyone too! thumbs up!

[Ron Green]

128. My opinion is that it's a crutch, a short cut, a cop-out, if you will.

I've seen plenty of it, and "used" it (cough, cough), but most of it - as some here have pointed out - is exceedingly boring and without much style or grace.

The important point for me is that, like any product that can be addictive, porn tends to replace an important part of life, which is relating to other people in a real way. It's an easy way to get sexual jollies that might otherwise take time and effort. And the time and effort are what give us an authentic life.

[bridgit]

133. "mainstream hardcore pornography" has a problem all it's own...

a vast majority of it's players are not as attractive as i would have cast them, people are simply not as well endowed from top to bottom and it is special when it occurs

in addition, the level of sexual interlude found in "mainstream hardcore pornography", secretes another fluid as well...and it is quantified as desperation. my sense is that it is as desperate as it's audience. which i find for the most part sad; true, but a sad human condition

filmically speaking, i roll my eyes when i see what a "mainstream hardcore pornography" director has to work with, or more to the point the tricks he/she employs routinely. one, maybe two/three good scenes that they have to edit in forwards & backwards, slo-mo & regular, solarized & posterized just to get enough screen time stretched out front and into something they can sell as a product. no one is going to pay 80 ~ $120 for a 10min "mainstream hardcore pornography", well maybe someone, but not most people that partake...not the people i know i should say

storyline is a nice sort of after thought, but we all know why we're sitting in front of a screen watching porn so there's that. but i have seen some wonderful offerings out there, with a handful (no pun intended) of people of each conceivable gender whom i would have taken home hand-in-hand, so there's that too

why do you ask? seeking validation for your desire to absorb "mainstream hardcore pornography"? my recommendation?

keep a lubricant & moist towel by the bed :thumbsup:

http://www.rmfilms.com