FORCED INTO CHURCH!!!! ADVICE!

[Taverner]

Well, not really. I come from a family where the family biz is religion. My Grandpa was a Dutch Reformed Minister, my Gread-Grandpa was a Dutch Reformed Minister, my brother is a Baptist Minister and my family is tied to a huge Christian Book Empire. Having said that, I'm a Deist at best. I believe there is a God, but our capacity to understand him or her is limited by the fact that we simply can't. Anymore than an aeomeba can understand a wallaby.

Anyway, my grandma (still alive at 95 and an ardent Democrat all those years) REALLY wants us to start going to church, for the kids. For her, a church is not a place of institutional ignorance, racism and republicanism - but where the womens sufferage, abolitionist and civil rights movements sprung from. For her, religion is the moral authority that separates us from monkeys and republicans.

So - I told her yes. So I'm looking for a nice open-minded church. I would love the Unitarians, but Grandma said that wouldn't cut it. I was raised United Methodist, but hate being the only person in the pews. I would never go fundie because, simply put, I hate those people. Hate isn't a strong enough word - I want them expunged from the gene pool.

Anyway - what would you reccomend? And I'd love to hear from our onboard Reverends (Rev Cheesehead especially - I trust ya 100%)

[The Sushi Bandit]

1. Unitarians

she will get over it!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

2. Find some liberal Catholics - they exist

Here's proof: http://www.catholicworker.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Worker_Movement

[HEyHEY]

3. pfft, yeah, but it's some kinda dirty trick.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

7. But you get to drink in church!

And it's the blood of God no less!

[Arugula Latte]

35. Mmmm ... GodJuice! Now with calcium!

I'm waiting for them to come out with a pulp-free GodJuice.

[Taverner]

4. But...I'm not Catholic

That's a whole different way of life - I mean I can barely drink grape juice and chew communion wafers at the same time!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

5. Yeah there's a whole rigamarole you have to go through

Trust me I know :D

[thefool_wa]

71. Rigamarole makes it sound negative

The year I spent in RCIA was one of the most educational and enlightening years of my life. They make you think about your choice and don't just thrust the mantle of Christ on anyone who passes by. It truly is for anyone who wants it, but it is something one should understand before embarking upon.

Yes, it is a lot of work to get there, but it is sooooooooo worth it.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

77. Agreed - RCIA was the best thing I ever did

:thumbsup:

My Baptism/Confirmation/1st Communion is second in my heart only to our wedding mass.

Oh - I didn't do it for the marriage, btw.

[hunter]

79. Well, if you're gonna be a Christian, might as well go all the way...

... and be Catholic. Anything else is sorta like "living together."

Or not.

The only time in my life an RCIA opportunity such as yours was open between me and the Catholic church, I found the way blocked by a Priest who was as stupid as a rock. There are shocking numbers of Catholic Priests like this -- the Church needs warm abstinent male bodies so badly they'll take on people who couldn't think their own way out of a paper sack, good people, yes mostly, but not so bright.

One consequence of this crisis of Faith within myself was that I short-circuited the connection between me & God. God seems to cope quite well with this short circuit within myself, but my relationship with the Catholic Church is not what it might have been. I'm out there floating in the schism, and I really don't have a lot of interest anymore in finding my way out of it. If the Pope and the various Orthodox Churches cannot reconcile their differences, my own opinions as a layman surely doesn't matter all that much.

Although there are a number of issues that would need to be definitively addressed by the two Churches before a complete reconciliation would be possible, most commentators agree that the central issue dividing the Catholic and Orthodox Churches revolves around the appropriate conception of the ministry of the Pope of Rome, and in particular, the nature and scope of his ministry vis-à-vis the Eastern Churches. In this respect, although the issues are complicated, a reasonably accurate summary of the present positions of the two Churches on this issue would be that (1) strictly speaking, the Catholics hold that the Pope of Rome, as the Successor to St. Peter, enjoys full, immediate, direct jurisdiction over every diocese in the Church and, under certain conditions, the charism of infallibility when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals, whereas (2) the Orthodox hold that the Pope of Rome is the first bishop of the Church, a source of tremendous authority and respect, and perhaps a "court of final appeal" or mediator between bishops, but that he does not have direct legal jurisdiction over each local diocese, or individual infallibility per se when speaking alone. Both the Catholic Orthodox Churches believe that their respective view of the role of the Bishop of Rome is rooted in the traditions of the ecumenical Church of the first millennium. We must all pray that the Holy Spirit will guide both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches to the blessed unity of one mind on this matter, so that full communion in unity of faith can be finally and decisively reestablished.

http://www.byzcath.org/Faith-and-Worship/East-West-Dialogue-Page1.htm

That's just the beginning of it...

I may be damned-to-bloody-hell arrogant, but if the Church is to survive, sooner or later they will come around to my way of thinking about many issues.

Meanwhile, my family and I go to Mass, and I try to be humble.

[thefool_wa]

85. Amen

and neither did I. My wife was instrumental in exposing me to the church when we first started dating, but I went to great lengths to separate my feelings for her and my exploration of the church.

In the end I was closer to both.

how old were you when you converted?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

86. 27

[jobycom]

24. If I ever went back to church, it would be Catholic or maybe

Methodist. Both are less pentacostal, more spiritual. Or rather, they focus on issues which allow you to be as spiritual or as ritualistic as you choose. Both have ritualistic services which minimizes the "Praise Jesus and George Bush" mentalities. That would be more conducive, I think, to living within your own beliefs while still having the community spirituality that church brings.

Also, Lutheran is similar, from what I've heard, from a friend who was mostly Diest, like you, but still wanted to go to church.

Seems like anything pentacostal, or with a loose structure that drags the audience more into the show rather than allowing a priest or preacher to create the atmosphere, is more likely to devolve into the base, judgemental mob mentality that is fundamentalism. That's true for me of "liberal" forms of church, too, that have no real structure, but let the audience set the pace. I'm much better at generating my own spirituality than allowing a mob to do it for me.

Another thing about Catholics, Lutherans and Methodists--they seem more receptive to the idea that religion is metaphor, which sounds like something you could cling to as a Deist who might have trouble accepting sermons otherwise.

Don't know if any of that made sense. Just my thoughts. I'm an atheist, though, so not the best person to ask! But I was a Fundie as a kid, and experimented with a lot churches. And I'm a spiritual atheist, kind of pagan in an abstract sort of way... Meh, never mind. That's a whole nuther thread, and you probably already know what I mean already anyway.

[CatholicEdHead]

68. Another Liberal Catholic vote here

you have to look around at local parishes for the liberal parishes. They can vary wildly from ultra-liberal to ultra-conservative.

[wildhorses]

6. I thought Deists believed that God had not yet revealed

himself...as if "he" is asleep.

Thomas Jefferson was one IIRC...

[Taverner]

11. "Deist" simply means they believe in a God. Period

We believe there is something that could be defined as a God or prime mover.

I try not to have the huberis that would say that I know God, or understand him - because I don't. And I know anyone who speaks for God is lying.

[wildhorses]

19. you are smarter than me

I think you can figure this out all by yourself...


but, opinions are cool

[jobycom]

25. Deists don't believe in the

Madonna.

:rofl:

[wildhorses]

28. where do I sign up....

:rofl:

[jobycom]

31. I think it's more of

unsigning up.

[wildhorses]

37. maybe I just need to realize that

it's like a prayer




let the choir sing

[jobycom]

47. Open your heart, get into the groove.

[wildhorses]

48. boy, you've got to prove

your love for me....


yeah that's right

show me the pretty diamonds and the cars and the houses cos I'm a material girl

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. Episcopal. Liberal, Progressive (mostly) and no minimum income standards

but if diversity is your thing, you wont find much unless diversity is characterized as making low 6 figures vs. high 6 figures.

[liontamer]

30. If one is looking for diversity, one can find it in an episcopal church

[A HERETIC I AM]

38. I was being facetious.

I was raised Episcopal and there is most certainly a wide spectrum of people in the World Wide Anglican Union (Of which The Episcopal Church and the Church of England are part)

It can not be denied however, that the Episcopal Church has a reputation in this country as being the bastion of upper middle class, White Americans. There have been blacks, Latinos and Asians in every Episcopal church i attended as a youngster but the overwhelming population of the various congregations were upwardly mobile and/or "establishment" white folks .

My apologies for not inserting the :sarcasm: icon.

[liontamer]

39. sorry i didn't get the sarcasm

it's just that i was raised episcopalian, and while I know the stereotype, I tend to not pick churches that follow it.

[patcox2]

57. Go with high church.

You can tell the high church leaning congregations by the smells and bells and they mention the virgin mary in the liturgy. I think its hilarious how in the book of common prayer saying "the blessed virgin mary and all the saints" is optional.

[MissMillie]

49. GETS MY VOTE TOO

gay bishop, woman cardinal, and they don't spend all their time pointing the finger at the shameful sinners.

Lots of allelujas and joy.

[huskerlaw]

81. I agree with Episcopal, but

I disagree on your diversity comment. I recently started goint to an Episcopal church and I've never seen so much diversity in one church...and they celebrate the diversity.

[miss_american_pie]

9. Could she deal with UCC?

My husband's grandmother is also trying to force us into church. Weird.

[BreweryYardRat]

10. United Church of Christ...

I think that's the name, at least.

They're the folks who ran those pro-tolerance ads a while back. I think they'd be a good choice.

[Taverner]

13. She'd be OK with them because they're Congregationalist

Just not Unitarians :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

82. Not all UCC are Congregationalist in background -

the UCC was formed by a merger of SOME Congregational Churches, along with the Christian Church, and the Evangelical and Reformed Church (itself a merger from 1947 of the Evangelical Church and the Reformed Church out of Germany).

There are still many hundreds of independant Congregational churches, as well as Congregational Churches that are part of the NACCC (National Assocaition of Congregational Christian Churches).

[Katina]

12. what's the point?

if it's only to satisfy your grandmother, then are you really getting what you want?

Organized religion (IMO) is up to the individual..if at all.

[Taverner]

14. It is only to appease her

She's 95 so its not like I can really explain things

[Katina]

17. understood

but you can appease without doing or joining anything. In otherwords, you can take her to HER church every so often and be done with it.

[Taverner]

21. Yes but she's worried about the kids' "moral values"

As if you can't get these anywhere else...

I see the point of standing strong, but the kids are too young to know what's going on...they'll just go to sunday school

And Grandma, bless her, is probably not going to be around too much longer.

[Katina]

26. then its a moot point

if she's not watching the kids going to sunday school, and she's not living with you, that what she doesn't know won't hurt her. I understand your point since my dad is in his late 80s. I don't argue with him over it, but I don't offer him anything either.

[Taverner]

29. Hmmm thats an idea

just not tell her the truth.

It would be for her own good - and I could tell her any church I wanted.

[Katina]

32. not necessarily what I meant.

it's more of a don't ask, don't tell. I can talk religion with my dad, but I never discuss a particular church. I wouldn't lie to him and say that I belong to one, I just keep the discussion on a more philosophical basis.

[LSK]

15. Scientology

The only church in town (if you are rich and famous that is)!!!

[Reverend_Smitty]

16. If you were in Baltimore

I'd suggest these guys http://www.jonahhouse.org/ People like this are really the only reason why I stay Catholic

[tigereye]

18. hmm, there's an interesting question here about kids

I was raised as a Catholic, but haven't been to church in years. I think I benefitted from some aspects of being raised that way - mystical caring for others maybe, but I suspect that my tolerance and good nature have more to do with my parents than the church. And my husband is more of a Taoist, if you can be such a thing and hates organized religion. So I have had to explain to my son about the different religions and what they mean. At one point, I think he thought that there were still Greek gods and people who worshiped them!

That being said, it really raises questions about the usefulness/necessity of kids being raised in a church. Is it necessary if the parents have reasonable, progressive and positive values? I like what a really cool writer said one time, that when her son was old enough, she took him to different church services and let him decide. I thought that was really cool.

If I had to pick a church, though, at this point in my life, it would be the Unis or the Quakers. :)

[supernova]

20. Well, I wouldn't go simply to appease your grandma

You will grow to resent it.

OTOH, if she's overly concerned about the kids, you might consider signing at least the older one up for day camp in the summer time. They get to have crafts, music, snacks, some even have swimming. And it's all fun.

If you are genuinely interested, you might want to check out these denoms:

Episcopalian (US Anglicans - Church of England)
United Church of Christ
The Quakers (They are a non creedal church and a bit like the UUs in terms of what "God" means)
UUs

There's also the Methodists and the Presbyterians. But your local church can be more conservative then the national organization.

I'm considering all of these at this point.

[Taverner]

22. I dunno - I'd like to leave her with the parting thought that she gets

...her way.

[supernova]

27. Would she love you any less

if you were lovingly honest with each other?

If I might be so bold: if you believe in any kind of afterlife, she will know that you lied to her anyway. I would much prefer the honesty and integrity route. But that might just be me.

And you could also reassure her that you would certainly be at any memorial for her (or speak during it if you are so moved.)

[Taverner]

34. My thoughts on the afterlife

And I'll try not to have this sounding too geeky

When you die, but your brain is still alive you go into a "sleep" Your brain is still ticking for a few hours after you pass. During this time you go into a dream which can seem like its years. This is, in essence, "The afterlife" that people report about.

Which comes to a question - if you are at peace when you die, your post-life dream will be peaceful. If your life is built on lies and you are not at peace, then your post-life dream might be "hell."

[Ava]

23. Methodist or Episcopal

those are the two that i'd suggest.

[liontamer]

33. why don't you just try a different church a week

till you find one you like? There is as much (if not more) difference between individual churches than across denominations. You should sample till you find one you're comfortable with.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

36. Aren't you in the Bay Area?

If you are close to SF I would go to Glide Memorial here in the City. Multi-everything, rockin', social justice to the max, the only kind of church I would consider attending. Headed by the Rev. Cecil Williams and attended by Robin Williams. :)

[noonwitch]

46. If you are closer to Sacramento, go to Christ Unity Church

The pastor there used to be the assistant minister at my church here in Detroit. He is a dynamic speaker-Rev. Jim Lee.

[Initech]

40. Non-denominational

A few of those can be pretty liberal, and I've seen some VERY liberal non-denom churches scattered about the very RED Orange County.

[MadHound]

41. A suggestion

If you can't stand going to a church that you don't believe in, why not just come clean with your grandmother? Sit down with her and tell her up front and honestly what your spiritual beliefs and beefs are, and why your going to church would be a sham. If she is as intelligent and open minded as you indicate, she might be disappointed, but she'll understand. And explain to her that your children can get just as good a moral education outside of church as inside one.

Either that, or completely freak her out by attending someplace like your local satanist temple:evilgrin:

[Taverner]

42. Dude...she's 95

Now is not the time to freak her out.

[MadHound]

51. Hey, that one big coranary and *poof*

Problem solved:sarcasm:

Seriously though, rather than putting yourself through ten kinds of hell, just lay it all out for her, calmly and honestly. Sorry, but I'm one of those people who believe that honesty is the best policy in these sorts of cases:shrug: Good luck:hi:

[noonwitch]

43. Are you from Grand Rapids? Are you a Zondervan?

I'm just curious, by the clues you've given.

I grew up in GR, and attended a UCC church there as a kid. I'd recommend it now, because the same minister is still there. It's Plymouth Congregational UCC on Kalamazoo AVE between 36th and 44th streets. You would definitely not be the only one in the pews, the choir is much better than when I was a kid and it is a church that is "open and affirming" for all. Fountain Street Church downtown is a large congregation-they used to be UU, but split from the denomination. U2 played there once.

I ask about GR because having grown up there, I know that the largest populations of CRC and RCA members are all in West Michigan. I think there are about 5 CRC churches in metro Detroit. There's 5 in every GR neighborhood.

Also, Zondervans, Bakers and Erdmans are the main christian publishers there. Zondervans was bought out by Macmillian some time in the 80s, but books are still published under the Zondervan name.

[ContraBass Black]

44. "...United Methodist, but hate being the only person in the pews."

Huh?

[RevCheesehead]

54. That statement is truer than anyone wants to admit.

Methodist churches are aging out and dying. In fact, the only ones that are growing are new-start congregations. We've got a serious generational gap in the churches, and it affects everything from style of worship to programming, to choice of food and beverage served.

*sigh* - I'm too young to be feeling so old.

[ContraBass Black]

59. I guess I didn't know that

Because I've stopped going.




You? Old? Already?

[xmas74]

84. They are dying out in many areas.

We used to attend one a few years ago in a small town. My daughter was the only child under the age of seven there.

A few of the older ladies used to beg to teach her Sunday School class, even though it wasn't really needed. They said that they missed the days of full classes. My spoiled rotten daughter actually had a rotating list of different teachers each week so they could all take turns. Being the only one that young she was singled out w/ homemade cookies, crochet doll sweaters, etc. every week to take home w/ her.

The one we attend now is the oldest church in my town. Our congregation is growing a little at a time, mainly w/ help from military moving in and from a growing college chapter in town, along w/ offering family activities every night of the week for the public. But we still cannot compete w/ the Baptist church building on yet again (town of 20,000 and the place looks like a megachurch from a distance) or even the Assemblies of God trying to find a large space outside of town for their own version of a smalltown megachurch.

My town has, for the most part, been taken over religion-wise by the Baptists and the Assemblies of God. They actively campaign for members everywhere you turn here.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. There's a liberal American Baptist congregation in the Walnut Creek

Shell Ridge Community Church (www.shellridge.org) I know of them from some of their community outreach efforts. Their minister and some congregants have a bluegrass band and they played at the peace demonstration in WC last March, plus they're active in a sister city project in Central America. I realize that WC would be a schlep from your area but there may be one like it closer to home.

[Taverner]

55. Good to know....

Brother would be proud, and American Baptists usually have the fire and zeal of their Southern counterparts, but with the morality and openmindedness of DU.

[RetroLounge]

50. My oldest kid is 8

and his great-grandma is STILL asking us when we will get him baptised...

I dunked him in the pool in the backyard, doesn't that count?

RL

[politicat]

52. Episcopalian, Quaker, some Lutheran

Churches are good for community and building social ties. It's one of the best places to find a babysitter.

I like our Episcopalian church. When we go (rarely; we're effectively atheist and utterly opposed to organized religion), that's the one I enjoy most.

Quakers are excellent for liberation theology.

Lutherans make the best hotdishes.

[Deep13]

53. You need to decide for you and the children, not your grandmother.

Especially since you have apparently given her the veto power over your selection.

[RevCheesehead]

56. OK, here's how I see it (from what you've told me)

Your grandmother wants to make sure that your family is being raised with a corporate sense of morality and social conscience. For her generation, that was the protestant church. And since she's not a fan of the UU's, she probably would prefer you found one called Christian.

So much of "finding a church" really depends on the area where you live. Are you in a city, suburb, or rural area? Is your community family and child friendly? What is your ethnic makeup in the area?

What congregations are growing ones?
Do any offer either contemporary worship, or perhaps a "seeker" service?
(Seeker service= a term used by Willow Creek Church in Chicago area. It means a church service where you recognize that most people have spent very little time in the church, and don't know scripture, aren't too enthusiastic about liturgy and traditional styles of worship, like a variety of things like video clips, drama, contemporary & easy music, etc.)

I've lived in the midwest, east, south, and California. My experience in CA was that church was vey different than it is here. There, it seemed you were forced into an either/or category... either you believed it, very strongly (like a fundy), or you didn't go. I was very disappointed in that kind of attitude (and that was in a Presbyterian church!)

Look in the Yellow Pages. Check your local paper to see if there's a church listing. See if anything stands out to you. See if they have a website and look at it before you visit.

Keep in mind that many churches have little programming in the summer, and will begin Sunday School, classes & groups in the fall. And visit around to a number of places. Keep track of who made you feel welcome. And maybe write donw in a notebook your first impressions.

You know, what you're doing is not a bad thing. And if I may be so bold to say, I suspect that because your grandma wishes it is not the only reason you're considering this. :)

[Taverner]

60. Yep, pretty much that's it

It was funny, when I was in Peace Corps, I met a lot of midwesterners who went to church, but didn't beleive at all. They just went because "That's what you do in Waterloo, Iowa..." Not to say they were forced to memorize scripture - most of the time that was their social nexus.

Whereas in CA, if you don't believe, you sleep in on Sundays. IN many ways I love our California "be yourself and leave others alone" mentality, but this is one of the areas where it kind of is a drag.

Even though I'm highly antagonistic towards Organized Religion, I also know that there are no blacks or whites. There are good churches, there have been good churches, and there is still good to be found in Christianity. Just because I'm a secular humanist doesn't mean a church can't have a positive effect in my life.

Philisophically, I'm more inclined to the UU - just because I can't see the Christian idea of a just God sending people to hell simply because they didn't dot their spiritual I's and cross their theological T's. It just doesn't make sense. ANd also because UU is about the beleiver and the congregation, not about the God.

And yes, I would love to see the Taverner kids exposed to a philosophy other than corporatism and my own secular nihilist humanism (my levels of cynicism are enough to make espresso out of rose petals.)

[grannylib]

58. I'm sure I am biased, as a life-long Lutheran and a PK to boot (Dad was

a Lutheran minister) but for the MOST part, I have been comfortable in that denomination, mostly because I grew up in a Lutheran college town, where all the faculty I know were really involved in social justice issues (anti-Viet Nam, pro-civil rights, ordination of women, etc)
They're not perfect (what/who is??) but pretty decent...
Certainly not anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-woman, or anything like that

[MissB]

61. Well, if you were me, I'd be going to the Unitarians.

Because that would be as good as it got for me. You should go where *you* feel comfortable, not where she *thinks* you should go. Check out the Unitarians. See if a UU church around you is doing some civil rights work, or helping society in other ways. Then let her know why you chose (you're an adult) and why. Offer to take her along.

Whether the Unitarians cut it or not for Grandma isn't really the issue- finding a like-minded community that you feel comfy bringing your children into is. Pleasing Grandma should be secondary, after you've settled in.

[ChoralScholar]

62. We go to the Disciples of Christ

usually disguised under names like First Christian Church of XXXXXXXX.

Fairly liberal. Women in the clergy, open communion.

And I love part of their credo.

"In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty."

[China_cat]

63. Quaker

[Catbird]

64. UU Christian Fellowship

Does she know that there is a Unitarian-Universalist Christian Fellowship which is an integral part of the UU Association?

[JVS]

65. Of the one's listed, I'd recommend Dutch Reformed. But ELCA is better IMO

ELCA= Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. The most liberal branch of Lutheranism. Dutch Reformed is strict Calvinist IIRC, but I think a lot of people tend to give Calvinism a bum rap. It seems odd to me that people regard Calvinism as intolerant because of their view of predestination, yet the two main bastions of Calvinism (Switzerland and Holland) have bee known as being extremely tolerant since time immemorial. There seems to have been some kind of "God knows his own, so big deal what others are up to" mentality going on there.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

66. I have the same view as you on religion

Unfortuantely, I can't be of much help. I just never told the hardcore religious side of my family, but they knew I never went to church even as a Christian, so it wasn't a problem.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. Call the local headquarters of the denominations you're interested in

and ask them what their most liberal parish is.

Then try them out.

Eventually, one will feel right.

It's been my experience that finding a church is like finding a house, a college, or anything else. Eventually, one just seems right for intangible reasons.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

69. Go Unitarian anyway.

Best way to go, if you must go to church. Just plain best way to do it. What does Grandma mean, "it just won't cut it"?? :eyes: You ought to be doing this for yourself and the children if you're going to do it, not for her, no matter how old she is. Spirituality is personal.

On Edit: If she's so fucking insistent that it be a true "Christian" church, and you're keen on pleasing her, then I'd suggest United Church of Christ.

[thefool_wa]

70. Speaking solely as a devout member

I say go Catholic. You have to take a year to learn what it means first, so you get exposure and knowledge before choosing conversion, and it really is a no-obligation process.

I converted at 21 (10 years ago) and have never looked back. I love being Catholic, even if the church and some of its citizens are not the best examples of Christ's flock. The church responsible for more good in the world that just about any other organization, period.

Forget the history, don't let the faithlessness of the followers corrupt your view, and give it a try. It is the only truly free nation on the globe (lots of rules, one person to enforce them: YOU) and I find being Catholic rewarding and truly enlightening.

Just my take on it.

[tjwmason]

72. Episcopalian can mean anything - find the right one for you.

I don't know my Californian geography, but if you're outside the Diocese of San Joaquin you shouldn't have any trouble finding a liberal parish. The degree of ritual, the extent of modern/traditional services &c. can vary more than any other group I've come across.

[texanwitch]

73. May I ask why you are letting your Grandmother force you to go to a

church.

I told my parents years ago to get out of my life.

Do you really want to go or do you feel forced to go.

My grandparents have been dead for many years but I never let them tell me what to do.

If you really want to go more power to you but to be forced to go doesn't seem right.

[MichiganVote]

74. Since you're going to somehow improve the spiritual life of your kids

go wherever there is an enriching program for them. Church shop till you find what you're looking for.

[Orangepeel]

75. I think church is comforting for kids

(assuming it isn't a scary "you're all going to hell" version).

I don't have kids, but if I did, I'd take them to church, either Unitarian or Reform Judaism. I think that the sense of community, of belonging is probably good and I think the idea of "god" is comforting. I also think that (in general, not all) kids like rules and structure.

All societies invent some creation myth, partly because of the need to understand where we come from, but also to make sense of the world. It is scary to think that things are random, don't happen for any reason and there isn't always justice. The idea of somebody or something "higher" that really is in charge and really will make things work out in the end is comforting. I think it is probably the same way for young minds as it is for young societies.

[rockymountaindem]

76. For some reason I thought you were Jewish

Boy was I wrong, eh?

[hunter]

78. A peace church that celebrates & supports gay marriage.

That's what I'd be looking for.

That doesn't explain why I've been mostly Catholic these past two decades, but oh well, our church does pretty well opposing war, and they are not hostile towards homosexual couples -- the major current being "don't ask, don't tell." Some gay couples wish to remain Catholic for whatever reason, and that's got to be something one respects. In many places the Catholic Church and wider community are deeply intertwined; one can't simply cut off one's relationship with the church without losing part of the relationship one has with the community.

If you live in a liberal community the churches will tend to be liberal, and if you don't, they won't. This is even true in the Catholic Church. One thing I enjoy about the Catholic Church is that you can attend Mass anywhere. I can honestly say my wife and I have been to places where we would not go to Mass if we lived there -- places that see the war in Afghanistan and Iraq as some kind of Crusade, places that are hostile towards homosexuals, and places where people will loudly support Bush for his stand against stem cell research while they ignore all the evil he brings upon us.

If this is all about the kids, then your very first concern must be about what the church you adopt will be teaching them. You've also got to think alot about your spouse.

If everyone in your family hates going to church, even if it's a church that supports your beliefs, the lesson the kids are going to take home with them is that church is not the place they want to be. If you are not going to church to become part of some community, there's probably no good in it.

So what you are really looking for is a community you want to be a part of. The name-brand of the religion probably doesn't matter as much. By your own specifications it doesn't seem unlikely that there are multiple brands of Christianity you and your grandma might find agreeable.

Check out various church communities and tell your grandma of your adventures, she might enjoy that, and you may be surprised and find out a lot more about her beliefs & prejudices.

BTW, the Unitarian Universalists make me nutty, probably because when I've been invited to UU meetings and it doesn't feel like church. Oddly I don't feel the same about Quaker meetings, probably because that was my parents' church during the Viet Nam war.

I think as kids we can be imprinted on religion like little ducks... This may be the real reason for your grandma's concerns.

Church was always an important part of your grandma 's life, and she wants to make sure she has passed that on.

[Rabrrrrrr]

80. United Church of Christ - mostly liberal, nice and open,

and socially progressive: first ones to ordain a black, a woman, and a homosexual.

Each congregation varies, and there are some pretty socially and/or theologically conservative, even fundy, ones; but for the most part, it's a good choice.

Often called "Unitarians Considering Christ".

Another option is the Episcopal Church, or an Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (and don't let the Evangelical scare you - this is a fairly liberal denomination who use the word "evangelical" properly, not in the hate-based way that "Evangelicals" like to use it).

Unity Christ Center is also a good option - a good mix of eastern religion/philosophy while still having an emphasis on Jesus. Their services can be quite new-agey (but in a good way, not a bullshit "Oooh, look at me, I'm a wiccan/pagan oooh so trendy" way) with candles, dancing, meditation, quiet time, lots of art, a real appreciation for nature and creation, etc.

[WCGreen]

83. UCC is a very progressive thinking church.....

[Patiod]

87. Quaker Meetingds in Sacramento and Davis

Leaders in the peace movement and socially active. Plus they have excellent "First Day School" (Sunday School) programs for the kids. I've met some extraordinary people who are Friends - amazing role models.

Frequently asked questions about the Quakers
http://www.quakerfinder.org/faq.php

Find Quakers ("Friends Meetings") here:
http://www.quakerfinder.org/

Keep in mind that there are 3 types of Quakerism:
FGC (Friends General Conference) - unprogrammed and usually very liberal - more predominant in the East
FUM (Friends United Meeting)- often programmed, more traditionally Protestant, EFI - Evangelical Friends Int'l - conservative and fundamentalist
In California, many Quakers are of the fundamentalist/evangelical EFI persuasion (Nixon) Friends. But there are also FGC and FUM Meetings as well, which is what you'll be finding on Quakerfinder.org (IF it says "Pastoral", that would indicate that they are the more moderate FUM Meetings, most likelY)