Study: Southern pitchers, African-American batters (baseball)

[Neecy]

This isn't as earth-shattering as what's happening in the ME, but I found it interesting in that I really can't come to a conclusion as to why this happens. The percentages seem significant enough to conclude that for whatever reason race is a factor.

This is an analysis of a study done of HBP (hit by pitch) statistics in baseball.

------snip------

So far, nothing unusual. But now, Timmerman considered the birthplace of the pitcher. This is where the shock starts:

For case (a), when the previous batter hit a home run, normally there would be a 19% increase in HBP. But when the previous batter hit a home run and the pitcher was from the south, the increase was 22%, suggesting that southern pitchers are 16% more vindictive than average. But look at the breakdown by race. If there were no discrimination on the part of the pitchers, you’d expect equal results: a 22% increase against white batters, and a 22% increase against black batters. But instead, there was a 55% increase among white batters, and a 4% decrease among black batters!

For case (b), when a black player hit a home run off the southern pitcher his previous time up, he was 10% more likely to be hit than average. But when a white player hit a home run off the southern pitcher his last time up, he was 50% more likely to be hit.

Finally, for case (c), southern pitchers did still exact revenge on black batters – 12% more HBPs than normal. But for white batters, it was 55% more. (Also notable is that southerners were no more likely than Northerners to hit a batter just because their own teammate was hit. That is, they were more eager to avenge themselves, but no more eager to avenge a teammate.)

So black batters are treated very, very nicely by Southern pitchers. Timmerman suggests the southerners are motivated by a stronger desire not to appear racist. Or, he says, perhaps it’s that pitchers from the South are afraid of blacks, and worry that they’ll charge the mound if hit. Personally, I think the first explanation is more likely.
-------------snip-----

http://sabermetricresearch.blogspot.com/2006/07/are-pitchers-from-south-too.html

[itzamirakul]

1. Interesting...thanks for posting....nt

[deaniac21]

2. The manager calles for the retaliation. Not the pitcher or catcher.

[Neecy]

4. Not in all cases

In his example C (when the opposing pitcher hits a batter) then yes, the bench usually makes the call whether or not to retaliate. But in examples A and B it's usually the pitcher who decides it - after all, it's personal and why would the bench care?

[deaniac21]

9. Hit a player on purpose without the manager calling it will get

you in trouble in a hurry. Unless you are Hall of Fame material.

[Oeditpus Rex]

15. No

Knocking guys down is part of the game — or, it used to be before baseball became politically correct. It was SOP through the '60s and somewhat later — you take me out of the yard, you're going down next time. And managers were complicit.

It wasn't universal, though. Some pitchers just didn't do it and some hitters didn't rate it. But still, it's how baseball was once played. Intimidation was part of the game. Guys like Gibson and Drysdale used it very well.

Remember the scene in "Field of Dreams" where Eddie Cicotte throws at Archie Graham, and Graham says, "Hey, ump... how about a warning?" And the ump goes, "Okay. Watch out you don't get hurt."

That's how it used to be.

[xchrom]

3. BEAN THEM ALL!!! MUWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

i just think pitchers look cuter in their uniforms than the rest of the players.

this thread isn't about cute baseball players is it?

[Clark2008]

5. Groan

Another stretch to bash Southerners thread.

Jeebus, leave it alone!

:eyes:

[Bill McBlueState]

7. this is bashing?

"So black batters are treated very, very nicely by Southern pitchers. Timmerman suggests the southerners are motivated by a stronger desire not to appear racist."

I wish more people had a desire not to appear racist.

[Neecy]

8. not at all...

While this analysis centered around southern pitchers, the study itself included this interesting bit:

Figure 2 shows a similar pattern when the batter hit a homerun in his previous plate appearance. Specifically, White batters were 50% more likely to be hit by a southerner after they hit a homerun. African-American batters were 10% more likely to be hit and Latino batters were 5% less likely to be hit by southerners in this situation.

When the pitcher was not born in the South, White and Latino batters were less likely to be hit (5% and 29%, respectively) after they
hit a homerun. African-American batters, on the other hand, were 40% more likely to be hit in this situation by pitchers not born in the South.

So there's also a statistically significant difference in the rate that non Southern-born pitchers hit African-American batters. Why? I have no idea.

[northzax]

6. I don't mean to imply that some people have too much time on their hands

but really, some people have too much time on their hands.

[RagingInMiami]

10. What about that other study

That indicates black batters tend to crowd the plate more than white or Latino batters?

[happyslug]

11. Affect of Aluminum bats???

One side affect of aluminum bats was inside pitches were less effective (i.e. the bat was able to hit the pith better if it was aluminum compared to a wood bat). This caused pitchers to throw less inside pitches. Which lead to more people crowding the plate.

Thus this problem may be derived from little leagues that permit Aluminum bats and those that do not. Balk players may crowd the plate do to the effect they came up through little leagues that used Aluminum bats and pitchers were less likely to throw inside (and the less you throw inside the less chance of hitting the batter). On the other hand if the pitchers came up from little league that used only wooden bats, then they are more likely to throw inside than a Pitcher that came up from leagues that used Aluminum bats.

I do NOT know the rules as to bats between the North and the South, but the use of such bat as the player progressed from Little league to pony league to minot leagues. My point is the difference may not be racial at all, but the affect of using different types of bats at levels below the Major Leagues).

More on bats:
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats.html

"One of the biggest impacts of aluminum bats on the pitching game is that they took away the effectiveness of inside pitches.<7> When a players were using wood bats, a pitcher could throw an inside pitch in attempt to jam the hitter. If the batter made contact with the ball it would likely be on the handle or the taper region of the bat. Balls hit in the handle or taper region of a wood bat don't go very far, and often result in a broken bat. As a result, pitchers could get a lot of players out by throwing inside pitches to batters swinging wood bats. However, aluminum bats don't break for hits on the handle. In fact, many hitters can still put the ball in play beyond the infield when the ball is hit from the handle or taper region of a metal bat. Some of the effects of aluminum bats on pitching can even be seen in the majors. Watch older players like Roger Clemens, or retired pitchers like Ryan Nolan, who grew up in the wood only era and learned to effectively use inside pitches to intimidate batters. They like to throw inside and often intentionally brush back (and sometimes hit) batters who crowd the plate. Many younger batters are used to being able to crowd the plate and get upset when a pitcher throws an inside pitch. And many younger pitchers aren't nearly as likely to throw inside pitches because they have learned through years of experience that inside pitches can be hit (by players using metal bats)."
From: http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/NCAA-stats.html

[wildhorses]

12. doncha love what you can do with numbers?

my accountant called it a massage

wish someone would do my back:evilgrin:

[NNadir]

13. Now that was an interesting post. I'm a baseball fan, and I'll always

remember it. It's not what one expects.

Thanks.

[Katina]

14. I never expected that the Yankees & Red Sox would be the last

to integrate. That just seems counter intuitive, but it's true.

[5thGenDemocrat]

17. The Yankees weren't

The last two AL teams to desegregate were the Tigers in 1958 (Ossie Virgil) and the Red Sox in 1959 (Pumpsie Green). And the first American-born black to join the Tigers was Jake Wood in 1961 (IIRC). Elston Howard joined the Yankees in the mid-50s and I think Joe Page might have worn pinstripes even before that (believe me, I'm no Yankee historian).
John
I'm a big, lifelong Tiger fan, but also well aware of the history of racism the franchise displayed in its past. Spike Briggs, who owned the club in the 1940s and 50s was an unapologetic racist. And we won't even discuss Ty Cobb here, other than to note that his statue at Comerica Park is located between those of a black man (Willie Horton) and a Jew (Hank Greenberg). That's pretty funny, in an ironic sort of way.

[happyslug]

18. And the Pirates were the last team to have black players

As the White-only rule came into play in the 1930s. Prior to the 1920s Blacks could and did play in the majors (Subject to a lot of anti-black prejudice but that is another story). Only After 1920 were blacks banned from Baseball, the Pirates tried to keep a couple calling them "Cubans" before leaving them go in the early 1920s. I can NOT find a site with their names but their were the last black players in the Major Leagues will 1947. The fact blacks could enter the major was the reason most black leagues failed before 1920 (The better Black players ended up in the Majors), it is only with the rule against black players that the Negro League was formed and survived for the decades Blacks could NOT play in the Majors (And failed again one Blacks could again play in the Majors after 1947).

The First All-Black Major League lineup (Another Pirate First):
http://baseballguru.com/markusen/analysismarkusen01.html

[Katina]

19. well on NBC NY news

Sue Simmons claimed that the Red Sox were the last to integrate, right after the Yankees (making them one of the last two). I should have known better than to trust the media to get it right...
That being said, The Yankees were still late comers according to the final paragraph in this referenced
piece:
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/asap/Sports/asap_Sports_Baseball_Integration.html

In 1954, Griffith turned to the island that had been the source of so many players -- Cuba -- to sign Carlos Paula, a black outfielder. Washington was thus one of the last teams to integrate -- only the Yankees, Phillies, Tigers, and Red Sox took longer.

[SKKY]

16. Very interesting observation. I wonder how skewed these numbers...

...will be when Roger Clemens finally does retire? Significantly I reckon.