Is 'Casablanca' a racist movie??

[TahitiNut]

When Ilsa, played by Ingrid Bergman, first arrives at Rick's, she asks: "Who's the boy playing the piano?" This is in refernence to Sam, played by Dooley Wilson, and is asked of Carl, played by Szöke Z. "Cuddles" Sakall.

[Rex]

1. You must remember this, a kiss is just a kiss a sigh just a sigh.

It would be considered racist today, but then again people still go around calling each other 'boy'. I don't think Bergman meant it that way, but who knows.

[TahitiNut]

5. "You despise me, don't you?"

Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.

:rofl:

[Rex]

9. LOL

:rofl: Sounds like Japanese anime.

[NewJeffCT]

2. never saw the movie... but

could she have meant it like "kid"?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. LOL

No.

[bbinacan]

33. Great movie

you should see it.

[Beaverhausen]

3. No, it is not a racist movie

did you even watch the rest of it?

[baldguy]

4. Yes, It's racist. But it also truthfully reflected the time.

And, remember: Sam was probably Rick's best friend.

[TahitiNut]

10. Well, Rick sold Sam to Ferrari at the end.

... and then formed a "beautiful friendship" with Renault. :eyes:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

19. his EMPLOYMENT contract - - AND

he increased his share of profits.

hardly a racist move there. Then again,
a hungarian freedom fighter, a suspicious criminal guy with jewish background, an american, a vichy-frenchman, a bunch of muslims, an american black, african blacks, a turkish(?) crime lord, and just who will be discriminating against whom?

[itzamirakul]

21. Yes, that part of the film shows the racism of the period when

in order for black men to be acceptable, especially when they had dealings with white women, they had to be degraded or be made to look on a lower class level than white men. That way no one would even consider the fact that a white women would in any way be attracted to him.

That was way before Heidi Klum fell in love with Seal. :bounce:

He also had to be made to look safe and trustworthy, in Sam's case, so that both sides could confide their emotional pain to him. Sam, however never gets to express HIS emotional pain to either Bogart or Bergman.

And you are right, Sam probably was Rick's best friend.
But Rick was never Sam's best friend. :shrug:

[baldguy]

37. Did Rick have anyone he considered a real friend?

"I stick my neck out for no one." I think is the quote.

But he certainly had a lot of people who cared about him and felt indebted to him: He allowed the young Greek(?) couple to win in the casino. When the bar was closed down, he kept everyone on the payroll. When he was selling it to Ferrari, he got Sam a raise. When he was running guns during the Spanish Civil War, the Fascists would have paid better than then Republicans, but he sold to the Republicans anyway. And he gave Victor - his rival for Ilsa - a place to hide.

The social mores of the time may have prevented Rick and Sam from being real friends, but they were as close as two men of different races could be portrayed to be at that time.

[TahitiNut]

53. I'm the only cause I'm interested in.

I was misinformed.

[Tesha]

36. What baldguy said. (NT)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. The fact that that line is jarring

and repugnant to us today shows how far we've come since the film was made.

[hiphopnation]

7. it's hard (for me) to look at anything from that time period

and not see the racism inherent in the period...i mean, the story is nice enough, but the racism of the day (as accepted as it was at the time) is abhorrent and makes it hard to watch.

just an opinion
don't forget hattie mcdaniel

[HuffleClaw]

8. you've got to be kidding

geeze.

[TahitiNut]

54. I'm sorry for asking.

I forgot we said no questions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Why do you asked?

Certainly Dooley Wilson experienced the racism endemic in Hollywood and the rest of the US at the time.

Ilsa was racist. Were the writers? Who knows.

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Highly racist. It portrayed...

Germans as brutish, the French as slimy opportunists, and various Eastern Europeans as treacly morons.

And Americans as not giving a shit about the important stuff.

[TahitiNut]

16. "... various Eastern Europeans as treacly morons."

Including Annina Brandel, played by Joy Page, the newlywed trying to get an exit visa???




Including Victor Laszlo, played by Paul Henreid?





Hmmmm. :eyes:

[ghostsofgiants]

44. Since when are German, French, Eastern European, and American races?

:evilgrin:

[calico1]

14. I think you need to take into account

the times and what was considered acceptable. I don't like to judge past movies, books, etc. by todays views. Do I the movie was intentionally racist? No. If you are going to judge past movies by todays standards then you can also argue that all men were very sexist at the time. You can argue a bunch of stuff if you use todays standards to measure with.

[TahitiNut]

18. Is that how we judge the term "tar baby"??

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. But we're not talking about how "tar baby" was used...

in a movie sixty some years ago.

We're talking about how it was used recently by a real life person.

[calico1]

27. "Tar baby" as I understand was meant

solely as a racial slur. Was the term "boy" in Casablanca meant to demean Sam? I've seen the movie many times and didn't think so. You can go on and on and on finding offensive things in old movies if you like. I prefer to enjoy the ones I like and realizing that while I would find some things unaccpetable today these movies were made at a different time.

[MarkDevin]

15. "Casablanca" is a terrific film.

Why judge the past by the standards of the present? It just spoils your enjoyment of some really good pop culture.

[JuniperLea]

26. Bravo!

I'd have to give up so much excellent cinema if I were to judge by today's standards. So many of my all time favorites would be Gone With the Wind...

[dback]

17. Actually, Ilsa KNOWS Sam, and has a history with him

It's actually a ruse that she is playing when she first enters. She knows Sam and greets him by name, and asks him to play a special, significant song, implying that they know each other very well and have some sort of emotional connection and history together. This is very daring for a white woman to do, and in America at the time would've causes riots; however, since "Casablanca" is set overseas in Africa during wartime, it can be a little more cutting-edge.

Many films pre-1960's are racist in an unconcious way, just was much of society was--it wasn't "thought about" by white society at large, except in terms of "The Negro problem" or "exotics" like Central Americans in the post-war years (especially musically), and the styles and fashions of Asia. It took the Civil Rights movement to put racial "issues" on the map and in people's brains.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

20. Other - a character in the film used a racist term

But apart from the racist expression used by one character in the movie towards him, which unfortunately was probably not seen as racist by white audiences at the time and probably sounded authentic and what someone like Ilsa might very well have said, Sam comes off as a faily sympathetic character. He's more than just a piano player in the bar, lending a cool and exotic atmosphere to the film through his soulful playing and singing. He's Rick's best friend, whose loyalty can't be bought. He's there when Rick flees the Germans in Paris. He's there when Rick gets drunk after seeing Ilsa again and tries to warn Rick about Ilsa being trouble for him. He lies to Ilsa on Rick's behalf, telling her that Rick has a girlfriend at the Blue Parrot and then telling Ilsa she's poison to him. Rick rewards Sam at the end when he sells the bar to the Sidney Greenstreet character by demanding a raise for him. Sam's character, however small the part, has some amount of emotional depth as a three-dimensional person, not just a prop.

Sam's part is small and it might have been nice for Rick to escape to Brazzaville with Sam as well at the end. But we come away from the film having very good feelings towards Sam as a likeable character and a memorable part of the story. I think it's a positive role for an African American character, when seen in the context of other roles in other films at the time the film was made.

[ronnykmarshall]

22. It is a racist piece of garbage ....

and every copy should be burned!! BURNED!!! BURNED I TELL YA!!!!!

:eyes:

[Rex]

24. FIRE BAD!

:evilgrin:

[shain from kane]

23. Dooley Wilson couldn't play the piano, so he was cast as a racial

stereotype.



From imdb.com ---

Dooley Wilson (Sam) was a professional drummer who faked playing the piano. As the music was recorded at the same time as the film, the piano playing was actually a recording of a performance by Elliot Carpenter who was playing behind a curtain but who was positioned such that Dooley could watch, and copy, his hand movements.

[ronnykmarshall]

29. Oh my GAWD!!!!

That's also an insult to piano players as well!!


:grr::grr::grr::grr:


And you know in "Sweet Dreams", Jessica Lang did NOT sing those Pasty Cline songs. She lip-synced to Patsy Cline's recordings.

I mean what does that tell ya. Not much has changed since then now has it.

[Bridget Burke]

57. Beverly D'Angelo played Patsy Cline in "Coal Miner's Daughter"...

And she did her own singing. Of course, Sissy Spacek also sang all of "Loretta's" songs.

[slackmaster]

28. Poll needs one more choice

"Lighten up, Francis."

[NoPasaran]

30. Amen to that!

You could also make the case that it's sexist since Ilsa tells Rick she want him to the the thinking for both of them. But it's just a great movie.

[happydreams]

31. One of the dumbest damn questions I've ever seen here

If you look at what the people in the movie were fighting you can hardly call them bigots or racists. :eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

32. Stick around ...

you'll see more.

[KyuzoGator]

35. If I were a Freeper, I'd be making fun of this thread.

Just my $0.02, though.

[TahitiNut]

41. Well, I sure do lay awake at night worrying about provoking a ...

... reaction from sociopathic imbeciles. Yeah. What better way to make life's choices, huh? :eyes:

[TahitiNut]

42. Well, I guess I can't count on

... you clicking "Recommend Topic for Greatest Page" - c'est la vie. :shrug:



:rofl:

[KyuzoGator]

34. Perhaps in that line, but Sam is largely treated as an equal.

Rick is close friends with Sam and at the end he gives Sam a share of the profits from the bar. I'd argue that such attitudes toward black people were quite uncommon in 1943.

And also remember that Ilsa doesn't really condescend to Sam anywhere else in the film.

[cobalt1999]

40. exactly.

Sam goes with Rick to Casablanca. He has a share of the profits, he's Rick's friend. Wow, if only racism lead to such a situation all the time.

[ISUGRADIA]

38. Yeah, his role in the film was so degrading compared to the

African Americans characters in other films of the time. :sarcasm: One line out of a fucking two hour long movie.

Shit, compare his role in 1942 to Queen Latiffa's in "Bringing Down the House" in 2004. I'd argue his was a far less racial offensive character than hers was.

[USA_1]

39. Yup, it's racist

While "Casablanca" is a great movie, it is racist in more ways than one. True, Ilse's line about "that boy" is campy, you will remember how Rick Blaine sells his pianist's contract to Ferrari without even troubling himself to ask whether he wants to work for another. It's almost like selling a slave!

Or remember the scene in which Nazis sing "Watch On The Rhein" and the rage shown by everyone else --- immediately they sing "Le Marseilles" because they feel that no one has the right to sing German songs in Casablanca, Morocco. But what gives these French and their white European supporters the right to sing the French national anthem in African territory????

DID ANYBODY STOP TO ASK THESE AFRICANS AS TO WHETHER THEY APPROVED OF THE PRESENCE OF WHITE EUROPEANS IN THEIR LAND?????

The issue is never even addressed.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

48. Morocco was a French colony long before the occupation, I believe.

People had probably been singing La Marseillese there, and completely ignoring the needs of the African natives, for a long time.

[democracyindanger]

50. Yay! Idiotic reasoning!

Wheeeeeeeeee!

[TahitiNut]

52. What is your nationality?

I'm a drunkard.

[democracyindanger]

55. Comrade!

I'm from Notinthemood County of Scotchitonia!

[VOX]

43. There are a couple of racist moments in an otherwise great film.

And, as pointed out upthread, it was pretty much a reflection of the attitudes of our society at the time. That doesn't make the use of "boy" and Sam's "Yessuhs" any less racist, but it does put it in a larger contest.

[Oeditpus Rex]

45. What, you never heard the expression

"the boys in the band"? :shrug:

[jobycom]

46. Good question. There are moments that offend my sensibilities

There are moments in films now that we praise which will offend someone in the future.

All in all, the movie was about the French Resistance, Nazi Germany, and American Isolationism (of which Rick was the personification). It portrayed that well. It also displays uncomfortable realities and attitudes of American culture at the time--just as Mark Twain does, or Raymond Chandler does, or some athletic mascots these days do. I don't blame the movie, I blame the culture. There are points even in "To Kill a Mockingbird" which might be considered racist by today's standards, and the point of that movie was to oppose racism.

[sarge43]

47. For Ilsa to use the term "boy" was a writer's/director's mistake

She was an European, not an American. She may have been racist, but she wouldn't have expressed it in that manner. It's one of the reasons so many Black American artists and intellectuals lived in Europe during that time. They were treated on the whole with more respect.

[Blue_Tires]

49. You want my advice?

Go back to Bulgaria

[TahitiNut]

51. Nobody ever loved me that much.

:cry:

[Rabrrrrrr]

56. I agree with some of the others - it's a fucking dumb question

and not worth asking; certainly not worth responding to.

[TahitiNut]

67. I'm sorry for asking.

I forgot we said no questions.


Funny way of "not responding." :shrug:

[tuvor]

58. Very clever. Whether I pick Yes or No, I'm a racist.

The question barely warrants a response, but the two real choices you provide ("Other" is hardly a representative choice) would paint me as a racist in your eyes regardless of which I choose.

If that's not your intent, it sure looks that way.

[TahitiNut]

66. It's the "DU Way" ... your use of "codewords" betrays you.

:evilgrin:

[tuvor]

69. Betrays me as WHAT, exactly?

You couldn't have been more vague with the "codewords" comment.

So spell it out.

[WilliamPitt]

59. Racist, yes, but also from another time

Is Twain racist? Robert Penn Warren?

It was what it was.

[TahitiNut]

60. That's so long ago, I don't remember.

Yvonne: Where were you last night?
Rick: That's so long ago, I don't remember.
Yvonne: Will I see you tonight?
Rick: I never make plans that far ahead.

[WilliamPitt]

61. Go ahead and shoot

You'll be doing me a favor.

[TahitiNut]

62. I wonder if you know that you are trying to escape from yourself

and that you'll never suceeed.

[WilliamPitt]

63. I suppose he's like any other man

except more so.

[TahitiNut]

68. Put it down as a gesture to love.

I'll forgive you this time but I'll be in tomorrow night with a breathtaking blonde. And it'll make me very happy if she loses.

[Juffo Wup]

64. ALL MOVIES ARE TEH RACISM!!!!!

All entertainment too! Everything is racist! Everything! GAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *seizure*

[jrandom421]

65. What could be more racist...

than that memorable quote, "Major Strasser has been shot! Round up the usual suspects!" :)

Others:
"10,000 Francs, I'm only a poor corrupt official"
"I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling in this establishment! Your winnings, sir. Thank you!"
"I came to Casablanca for the waters. Waters? What waters? We're in the desert! I must have been misinformed."
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine."