Is Fishing a Bad Thing To Do?

[Generic Brad]

My entire family has become obsessed with fishing this summer. Six times a week at least, and on the days we don't go fishing, we go to sporting goods stores to buy fishing supplies. We even fish in the rain.

Sure, it is only catch and release, but we find we cannot stop doing this. My wife is happy because I have stopped obsessing about politics and world affairs. My kid is happy because very time we go out she catches the biggest fish of her life compared to the previous outing (last night she pulled in her first trophy sized bass). I am happy because my family is hanging out together every night and all weekend doing an activity together that we all enjoy. I think the fish are happy too, because we sure have been feeding more than we have been catching, and when we do snag one we have been releasing it back into the wild with a full belly.

Until this summer we never fished, but now we find we are having too much fun this year to quit. We are city dwellers and the last people you would think would go fishing. A few nights ago some guy walked up to me at a pier and started berating me for supporting the destruction of our ecosystem. He started telling me the fish we eat are all poisoned. When I responded that we only did catch and release he began getting on my case by saying that when we purchased our fishing licenses we became morally responsible for the destruction of the ecosystem because of the way our state Department of Natural Resources wasted our license money.

I politely begged to differ with him. If we had not purchased licenses, we could not fish. But it does raise a question. Is fishing a bad thing to do? I would wait for you answer tonight , but I have go to sleep now so I can get up before sunrise tomorrow to make sure we have our space secured on the fishing pier.

[Ghost in the Machine]

1. Fishing is a great way to relax... but the secret to it is this:

DON'T bait your hook! Just find you a nice spot to sit back and relax, then cast a line out with a BIG bobber on it... then all you have to do is sit back and watch the bobber float around... gives you time to think and reflect without being bothered by those pesky little fish interrupting your relaxation!

[querelle]

25. What A Great Idea!

My Dad has been fishing for years but he never caught a damned thing! Now I know what he was really doing out on that boat. Dad ws always a gentle kinda guy (and a comitted socialist!). Next time I talk to him, I'll ask him if he was really fishing or just seeking some quiet time to read and catch up on stuff.

Q

[Jamastiene]

2. I don't think fishing is a bad thing to do.

99% of what you do when fishing is take in the scenery and enjoy the time with your family and/or friends. The catching a fish part is what, once an hour, if you are lucky? Nah, it's not bad.

The guy had good intentions, but picked the wrong person, a DU'er, to berate. You should have told him as much too. With a little adjustment to his method of caring about the environment, he could have become a great environmentalist. Don't worry about it too much. That kid of yours will never forget the fishing trips. It will stabalize her later in life too. My most troubled times in life have been made easier by fishing trips with my grumpy ol' stepdad. He gets nicer when he's fishing to some degree. I think deep down, he hates the way our society is set up to hurry hurry hurry and work work work all the time too. He just has a different way of expressing it, sometimes not so good. It's all about intentions. That guy you met was probably just some misguided person who wanted to talk about the issue. Maybe you'll see him again and offer him a beer and some chit chat about the environment. Maybe you'll both learn something or form the next great environmental organization. Who knows?

[GreenTea]

3. No, the best way to consume vit. A and catch crabs...

[gkdmaths]

4. NO WAY!

Fishing is an awesome way to spend time bonding with your family. its also a great way to just be able to meditate and have some time doing something individually. It's also good eatin!

You should have given the guy some tinfoil for a new helmet.



:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[pokerfan]

5. Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day

Teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

Always remember, it's called fishing, not catching.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Fishing is not about catching fish...

but, as you have found out, it's about getting closer to that world we have left behind and doing something with the kid that lets her have her own space and accomplishment. Fathers and sons have gone fishing together since the dawn of history, and there's no reason fathers and daughters, and mothers, shouldn't share that silent bonding as you watch your lines for that slightest motion.

There's an invisible world underneath that water's surface, a parallel universe to our own. Cast a fly, let a baited hook sit there under the float, pump a lure... Something mysterious is going on down there, and maybe you have skill, maybe you have luck, and maybe a fish will strike. You just sit and wait, having little say in the matter after your cast. It's all up to the fish now. Fish who have been eating and breeding down there for millions of years before we interlopers showed up thinking we're so much better than them.

I dunno about catch and release-- some say it leaves the fish weaker and it may not survive well. Others disagree. Personally, I prefer to eat what I catch, although the shouter did have a point with his "poison fish" rant. Far too much mercury, dioxin, and other nasties in what used to be pristine lakes and streams.

But that's another fight for another day. Right now, fishing is good.

[Broken_Hero]

7. fishing is relaxing

to me at least, and I love fishing with baseball bats(true story)...:)

[mduffy31]

15. Looking at your avatar...

I am guessing you fished for Sockeyes with a baseball bat.

[Broken_Hero]

19. nah, humpy's...

aka pink salmon and chums primarily. Their was a huge creek behind my parents house, and the salmon would come up to spawn every yeah, and there are some areas in the creek which are about mid calf high....you walk out there with your baseball bat...of course the fish get scared and swim away...but stand still of a minute or so and they come back, and usually their backs are a bit above the surface water....whammo! Hit them over the head, and quickly grab their tail before the current takes them away...:)

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

8. It can be.

I had a bad experience the one time I went catch-and-release fishing. I snagged this tiny, definitely inedible fellow. When we pulled him out, we saw the hook had gone right through the palate and was poking out through the soft tissue around his eye. We eventually got it out, but we probably injured him permanently in the process.

That put an end to the fun for the day. I haven't touched a fishing pole since.

[idgiehkt]

20. I think most of the released fish die.

fishing is most definitely bad for the fish. I guess it depends on whether you are the fisher or the fishie.

[sendero]

22. I think..

... you are flat wrong. On what do you base that assertion?

[petronius]

26. Here's one report that pops up with a quick search...

Hooking location – This factor demonstrates the largest source of variation in mortality observed in the studies and experiments reviewed. It is consistently shown that deep-hooking (hooking in the gills or gullet) causes relatively high mortality, up to 35% when accompanied by bleeding, whereas normal hooking (lips or jaw area) consistently causes minimal mortality, which is consistently less than 5% and often less than 1%. The Maryland Department of Natural Resources, in its Recreational Catch and Release Mortality research program concludes that the location of the hook wound is the single most important factor influencing catch and release mortality (4). If the hook wound affects a vital organ, mortality, is high. The location of the wound site has been demonstrated to be a function of hook size, type, the use of natural bait versus artificial lures and additional situational factors. Studies show that when fish are hooked in the lips or jaw area (shallow hooked), mortality is negligible, typically less than 1% (4,5). Conversely, mortality is at its highest when fish are hooked in the esophagus or gills (deep hooked) (5,11). Necropsies performed on gut hooked fish in a study by (5) Grover, et al, found that the majority had sustained major internal damage to the heart, stomach or liver. Grover demonstrates that hooking location effectively correlates to mortality rate.

Link here...

Overall, it appears that there is a lot of variability in C&R mortality, but there are ways to minimize it, for example:

• using barbless hooks,
• using circle hooks,
• single rather than treble hooks,
• fast retrieve,
• minimizing the water temperature change experienced by the fish,
• minimal handling and keeping the fish in the water,
• a good quality landing net, and
• not placing the fish on ground/deck.

Done properly, C&R can keep mortality rates in the low single digits...

[sendero]

27. I'm sure you realize..

.... that deep hooking is much less common than mouth hooking. I'm sure it varies by bait, fish, etc - but for me about 1 in 10 swallows the hook.

[petronius]

29. I do realize that...

I mostly fish for trout with spinner-bait, so I almost never see a swallowed hook.

I'm sure you realize that I'm not the person you originally replied to, and my post was agreeing with your contention that mortality rates are low...

:)

[sendero]

30. No...

.. I'm tired and I just thought I was dealing with another person who was making my point but didn't realize it :)

[mockmonkey]

35. I wish I could remember

where I saw it but here in Wisconsin there was something about fishing tournaments and the large amount of dead fish that were part of the catch and release they even had a special name for finding such dead fish. I thought I read it here but maybe it was in the local paper which I seldom read.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. My husband and son fish all the time in the lake by our house.

We have a pontoon boat at the marina here and they go out on it every chance they get.

Sometimes they fish, sometimes they just drive around the lake and talk.

He loves it. Me, not so much.

[Redneck Socialist]

10. Fishing rocks

and it can be a stepping stone to learning a lot about aquatic ecosystems. That in turn may lead you to become involved in defending those same ecosystems. I don't know where you live and the DNR may indeed be screwed up, but methinks the guy berating you is nuts.

Go fishing. It beats work any day of the week.

[Crabby Appleton]

11. depends on if you are a fish, bait, or neither

[jobycom]

12. Fish don't like it much. Nor do worms. But I'd have seriously considered

cutting that jackass up for bait and saving a few higher life forms from your hook, myself.

I don't see how you would be harming the ecosystem. People have always fished, so the ecosystem is used to it. There are more people now, but there are fewer natural predators other than humans along the creeks and lakes. If the lake is manmade, it's a larger home for fish than they used to have, so, more fish. If it's a stocked lake or pond, the balance is kept even. If it's a river or creek, maybe fishing reduces the numbers, but again, fish have always had a lot of predators, and civilization tends to remove a lot of those predators, so you aren't doing much different than what has been done in the past, even if you are eating them. The point of most state and wildlife boards is to license people to limit the damage they do to the ecosystem. They count fish, project fish levels, and issue rules accordingly. Fishing isn't as much a problem as development, waste disposal, chemical and bio run-off, and a lot of other forms of habitat destruction.

I don't fish, but that's because I'm vegetarian and don't want to kill bait or fish, or in your case, kill bait and torture fish. There are those who claim that fish don't feel pain because they have few nerve endings in their lips, and those who claim that fish have undeveloped nervous systems and so don't process pain the way we do. Some have claimed that fish have no memory of pain. All of that has been debunked. While fish lips might not feel the hook (that's still debated), the rest of the fish definitely feels the struggle of catching it. Fish do have memory of pain, and they are capable of learning (not speech or tricks or such things), so their nervous systems are more animal than plant (the French still call seafood "Fruit of the sea" because of the old belief that fish were basically vegetable more than animal).

But all that's my choice, based on how I see the world. If your concern is only the ecosystem, I wouldn't worry about what the other guy said. He should be out protesting developers or chicken producers or other polluters of streams, rather than individuals. He has a serious perspective problem, to go along with bad manners.

[petronius]

13. That guy was a jerk and and desperately in need of tinfoil

Sounds like he didn't even have a clear idea of why fishing was "bad" (toxic fish? ecosystem loss? inefficient government?) and just ranted about a whole bunch of BS that he'd misunderstood from the internets. Totally assholic behavior...

As long has you are handling the fish properly and using barbless hooks in your catch-and-release approach I can't imagine you are having too much impact on the ecosystem (although I'm sure the fish would disagree).

As an aside: in my state you don't need a license to fish from public piers, and kids under 16 don't need them anywhere; you might want to check it out, and maybe you can save a little money...

[Kailassa]

14. Had you made the mistake of looking happy that day?

Because some people just can't bear that,
and will do/say anything to wipe the smile off someone's face.

Why do you think people still vote for someone everyone despises?
They just can't bear the idea that us Dems might enjoy life. ;-)

[hfojvt]

16. Dude was probably Lobo

and he is very sensitive about his fishies.

*note: this is only an attempt at a DC comics joke. Please stand by. Do not attempt to adjust your set.

[mduffy31]

17. I live on the shores of Gitchi Gumee

..and for some like myself fishing is a way of life. There is nothing better than getting in the boat and trolling around for a few hours searching for Salmon, Lake Trout and Walleyes, of course 3.18 a gallon makes it pretty tough now. I am wondering though how your DNR wasted your licence money and how he feels it should be spent. When I am faced with those types of situations and people I don't do like you, a person who is much more polite than me. I just tell them to "fuck off" or ask them if I even remotly look friendly and why the hell are they talking to me. But that could just be that I am an asshole.
















Well I am a lot of the time......

[Elidor]

18. Thank god fish can't scream

That's all I can say. :D

[bmbmd]

21. When the Lord Jesus was crucified,

and the eleven were sitting around feeling depressed and wondering what to do next, St. Peter his own self stood up and proclaimed "I am going fishing". Not until the men of Galilee took their tackle in hand were they able to visualize the truth and find their true purpose.

[sendero]

23. Fishing is not..

... a bad thing to do.

[MoseyWalker]

24. Depends on

whether or not the fish is suicidal.

I am the worst fisherperson in the world. No fish have been harmed by me for many years now. I think they know I don't really want to catch them.

[datasuspect]

28. true story

curly: "hey moe, i'm goin fishin"

moe: "do you got woims?"

curly: "yeah, but i'm goin anyway!"

[Skittles]

31. well here's the thing

for the life of me I cannot understand how people can relax catching live things on freaking hooks. But, I am a bigger fan of fish than ANYONE I know. :o

[callous taoboy]

32. Fishing with obssesive freaks is no good, no good at all...

It really soured me on it.

[AngryAmish]

33. Fishing makes me happy

I was supposed to go in a few hours but 2 guys backed out.

[Dangerously Amused]

34. The bottom line of catch and release fishing, it seems to me,

...is injuring an animal for fun.



I know you get other fun out of it than that, and that is why I said it is the "bottom line"; however, because most of the excitement happens *when* the animal is injured, injuring the animal is the primary goal of the activity.

I know that most people who engage in catch and release believe that they are being kinder to the fish than those who keep what they catch and eat it. But what bothers me about catch and release is that the person so engaged will never see or know the full consequences of his or her actions. I think most people throw the fish back and tell themselves that the fish swam happily away... but they will never know how the injury/injuries they inflicted will affect the fish. And every incident of catching a fish will injure it to some extent:


Fish evolved to live in water; it is water which supports a fish's weight. While fish do have bones to support their tissues, their bones are very small and thin (you've seen them on your dinner plate, I'm sure) and present primarily to add structure to the body, unlike (for example) the sturdy and resilient ribcages of us land dwelling beings which are necessary to protect our innards from falls and other hazards of gravity. Therefore if you squeeze a fish even slightly, for instance in an attempt to get him to hold still while you remove a hook, you will break his bones and crush his internal organs. But C&R fishers will throw the fish back and never know the damage they've done.

Likewise, a a fish's gills are extremely delicate, and almost any touching of them is likely to cause significant damage and impair breathing. But C&R fishers will throw the fish back and never know the damage they've done.

Then there is handling the fish. Fish have a coating of slime which protects them from disease and parasites. When you handle the fish too much or too roughly, or if you catch the fish in a knotted or rough net, or if you let him flop around in the boat or on the shore, you remove the protective slime and expose the fish to a variety of diseases and parasites, and the fish will probably die. But C&R fishers will throw the fish back and never know the damage they've done.

If a fish is hooked so deeply that you cannot get the hook out easily, pulling on the hook will damage internal organs, and cutting the line will allow the hook to remain and eventually puncture internal organs, if it hasn't already. In either case the fish will suffer and likely die of his injuries. But C&R fishers will throw the fish back and never know the damage they've done.

Fish breathe water, not air, and every moment out of water is a moment that he is suffocating. Every moment that the fish is struggling to breath, or fighting against the rod, he is building up lactic acid in his tissues. Too much lactic acid and he will go into shock which may kill him or cause long term damage. But C&R fishers will throw the fish back and never know the damage they've done.


So one of the things that bothers me most about catch and release is that it sends the message - especially to kids - that it's okay to have fun injuring an animal, then toss it aside to suffer and likely die without a second thought.


Please don't take any of this the wrong way, I don't want to start a flame war with you (or anyone) and I'm not suggesting that you intentionally hurt animals. I will also agree that there are more humane ways of C&R fishing, some of which were listed above by another poster. But I will not back down on the argument that every catch of a fish causes some amount of damage/injury, even if only the stress and build-up of lactic acid. Anyway, I'm just saying that this is an overall concern of mine with catch and release fishing. And, well... you did ask for opinions, and that is my opinion.



Peace.


:hi: