Kiss fans protest Rock Hall of Fame snub

[Philosoraptor]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060806/ap_on_en_mu/rock_hall_kiss_fans;_ylt=Amd5CENppZTKjTkag1X97Nes0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

Fans, some from as far away as California, carried signs and had painted their faces in black-and-white to resemble Kiss band members.

Those participating in the half-hour demonstration were upset that the band, formed more than 30 years ago, has not been admitted, even though it has been eligible since the late 1990s.

"Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll," the site says.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Speaking personally, I think they deserve their spot there.

But then, the hall of fame seems more about rewarding the assholes and untalented, and constantly snubbing and ignoring the people who actually made real differences and/or provided something of substance to the genre.

Oh, sure, every now and again a real band sneaks through the system and gets accidentally nominated, but I find the hall of fame a totaly fucking joke. A pathetic, miserable, awful, bullshit joke.

[reformedrepub]

60. Is the Dead in yet?

NT

[Rabrrrrrr]

66. Yep - inducted in 1994.

January 19, 1994
The Grateful Dead are inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at the ninth annual induction dinner. Bruce Hornsby is their presenter.

From the website:
http://www.rockhall.com/hof/inductee.asp?id=113

[NashVegas]

2. Tell It To the Television & Patti Smith Fans

Deal..

[Jamastiene]

5. Good point.

:)

[ProfessorGAC]

71. What Crisco Said!

Television should be in there, but the RRHoF is rather heavily biased on longetivity and sales numbers. Television wasn't around long enough to satisfy the former, and were never big enough to nail the latter. So, they are rejected. Not right, but a fact, i fear.
The Professor

[datasuspect]

3. MOBILIZE THE KISS ARMY NOW!!!!

come on people! i still have my KISS army card, i'm ready.

[asthmaticeog]

4. "contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll"

Looking like Alice Cooper and sounding like Grand Funk? The Rock Hall is total bullshit (The Bee Gees got in before the Velvet Underground or Black Sabbath? Yeah, OK...), but this is a justified snub.

[flamingyouth]

12. "Looking like Alice Cooper and sounding like Grand Funk"

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Human Torch]

6. Maybe the R&R H.O.F. powers-that-be listened to "Hot In The Shade"...

..and decided that any band that recorded a song as pathetic as "Forever" (co-written by Paul Stanley and NO-TALENT ASS CLOWN MICHAEL BOLTON) should simply have their asses kicked.

Just a thought.

:evilgrin:

[zonkers]

8. I was a fan as a teen but kiss is...unlistenable. But I do like the idea

of kicking their ass as a condition of them getting into the hall of fame.

[WolverineDG]

7. And I bet this has absolutely nothing to do with

Gene Simmons' new series on A&E. Nothing at all. Nope. Nada. Zippo.

He's always working the $$ angle (not that I think that's wrong; it's just his M.O.)

dg

[benny05]

9. I Would Have Preferred KISS

Over the Sex Pistols, who were inducted this year. I don't understand it.

Also omitted: Chicago, Moody Blues, Jethro Tull, Yes, Genesis, Phil Collins...

[zonkers]

10. Pistols really changed the direction of music. Influenced thousands

of bands.

[benny05]

14. I guess I fail to see how they influenced others

And I don't recall one hit from them. They didn't even have a song to offer in the montage of music they do from year to year. (I was just there a month ago at the R & R HoF)

I still would argue, respectfully, the ones that were omitted that I listed had more hits and also influenced others.

[ghostsofgiants]

15. "God Save the Queen" and "Anarchy in the U.K." for starters...

And you fail to see how they influenced anyone? Have you never listened to punk rock?

[Monk06]

25. Punk killed disco and the Pistols spat on the grave. Nuf said

[ghostsofgiants]

27. Actually, Johnny Rotten was somewhat influenced by disco...

Which was noticable with certain elements of Public Image Ltd.

[Monk06]

30. I've read that but I have too much tin ear to get it. Do you mean things

Like Pretty Vacant?

[fudge stripe cookays]

80. Take a listen to...

"This Is Not a Lovesong" sometime.

[tigereye]

41. it's fascinating how much of punk drumming

was done by drummers who had played a boatload of disco. I was playing some Clash and Minutemen at my drum lesson, and a lot of disco and funk beats were included.

[zonkers]

82. self delete.

[NashVegas]

83. Rockism Killed Disco and Punk Pissed on Rock's Throne

And oddly ended up fertilizing it.

[HuskerDU]

34. And of course the Sex Pistols were formed in the ashes of

the New York Dolls. Malcome Mclaren begged Doll Sylvain Sylvain to travel to England with him to form a band with a few kids hanging around his clothing store. Syl refused so Malcome took Syl's guitar, flew back to England and formed the Sex Pistols.

Doll Johnny Thunders was the first 'cartoon' punk rock style name that I know of. Joe Strummer said, 'Johnny Thunders is the reason I picked up a guitar.' Television, Patti Smith, Ramones and all the rest played the same scene as the Dolls, just a couple of years later. Were the Velvets there before the Dolls? Of course, but they didn't play as loud, fast, and sloppy as the Dolls.

IMO the New York Dolls are the most vital link in the forming of punk rock, and are the most glaring ommission in the RnR hall of fame. Plus, they actually played RnR, not 'rock' music.

[ghostsofgiants]

35. Now here's someone who knows their shit.

[Robb]

44. Well, the lad DOES go by HuskerDU. n/t

[ghostsofgiants]

45. ...

:headbang:

[HuskerDU]

96. Thank you primate1, Robb, and xmas!

The Dolls are/were ma boys! Should mention in this KISS thread that KISS (and Aerosmith) opened for the Dolls on a tour of small auditoriums in '74.

The Dolls did influence a lot of folks. Some good, some not so good!

[xmas74]

86. Bravo!

:applause:

[benny05]

36. Queen was before them

In hits, anyway..so I'm puzzled, but thanks for the message...

[mac56]

38. "I don't recall one hit from them"?!

You mean...GASP...that Dick Clark and Casey Kasem never got around to anointing them?!

Well then. They have no right even to set foot in the Hall of Fame.

[asthmaticeog]

50. Um, yeah, who again was influenced by Phil Collins?

I mean, other than tragically white people making out?

[Spider Jerusalem]

52. 'Hits' don't = 'influence'

Record sales have nothing to do with musical influence. The Velvet Underground were probably the most influential group of the late '60's. THey never had any hit records. The New York Dolls were arguably the most influential group of the early '70's. THEY never had any hit records. But they had a tremendous influence on other musicians in the New York rock scene, and that influence was exported across the Atlantic to London. The Velvets and the Dolls (and Television, and one or two others) were responsible for what became known as 'punk'; there's a REASON that rock historians call the new wave/electronic-influenced/'new rock' of the later '70's and early '80's 'post-punk', because punk was a watershed in rock history, and it spawned most of what came after (or most of what came after that matters, anyway).

If there'd been no Velvet Underground, no Television, no New York Dolls, no Sex Pistols, no Clash, etc., we'd never have had the Pixies, or Nirvana, or Green Day, or Joy Division, or Siouxsie and the Banshees, or the Smiths...some of these may not be very obvious, but it's the same sort of progression that led from Elvis to the Beatles.

So yes, the Sex Pistols definitely belong in the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame (and Phil Collins doesn't).

[HuskerDU]

97. Amen Spider!

You are definitely preaching to my choir.

[devilgrrl]

54. Oh... it's about hits and who makes the most $$$$$$$$$$$$$$?????

Oh man...:eyes:

[fishwax]

75. the "rock and roll" "hall of fame" is pretty much about the $$

not that it should be, but ...

[NashVegas]

84. $$ and Jann Wenner's Idol-Worship / Boot-Licking

..

[asthmaticeog]

98. Tellingly, he got HIMSELF inducted. (nt)

[fishwax]

76. the pistols were overrated poseurs

but still far more valuable and influential than kiss :evilgrin:

[ghostsofgiants]

11. I'm not the hugest of Sex Pistols fans...

But they're far more worthy than Kiss. They were one of the most influential bands in a very important musical movement. What exactly are Kiss' great contributions to rock and roll?

[jmowreader]

17. Being an actual Rock Band?

I figure if Miles Davis (a jazzman) and B.B. King (a bluesman) can get into the Hall, then KISS, who is a Rock Band (check the name over the door of the Hall--it says nothing about Jazz or Blues) should be in.

Besides, whoever makes the nominations should be taken out back and shot for not putting Jim Marshall in the Hall. A Les Paul or a Strat running through about four Marshall JCM800 stacks is rock and roll at its finest, man.

[ghostsofgiants]

18. Jazz and blues were strong influences on rock and roll at its inception.

Which I owuld imagine is the reason for their inclusion.

[WCGreen]

40. I agree....

Neither should be in the Rock Hall...

They were and are both Posers....

Attitude alone does not sustain if there is no talent underneath...

And as far as Punk, The Kinks, The Who and Iggy Pop and the Stooges were all punk before someone named it thus...

They had 'tude and talent and sustainability....

BTW, two songs does not make a career....

[zonkers]

23. I'd like to see Cheap Trick get in the Hall.

[jobycom]

13. It's the Hall of FAME, and they are about as famous as any band

in rock history. There were more talented (and less) and more influential, and probably some of them aren't in it, but no question KISS was significantly famous.

When they open a Hall of Talent, or Hall of Contribution to the Art of Music, it's a different discussion, though I'm not sure KISS should be excluded from that discussion. Just that they aren't so large in it.

[ghostsofgiants]

19. But just being famous doesn't meet the criteria.

The hall of fame itself says "Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll." Sure they're quite famous, but would rock and roll music have really been much different if they had never existed? Less pyrotechnics, maybe.

[jobycom]

21. Yes

Because of their fame, people imitated them for years. And you don't think pyrotecnics was a big part of rock after them?

[ghostsofgiants]

46. Well any band that garners fame is going to be imitated by people...

But is that a perpetuation of or contribution to rok and roll? To me, no, it isn't. For Kiss, it's a perpetuation of an image, sure, but not of rock and roll. As for pyrotechnics, I think both Kiss and Nickelback prove that pyro is one of the most effective ways to distract the audience from the fact that the music isn't that great. So basically, they've made people dress up like tools and enabled crappy bands to get away with being crappy. ( But that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong. </miller> )

[Fenris]

16. Sounds less like a "snub" and more like an "informed" decision.

Which is really saying something - this is the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, after all. And now a haiku:

Legions of child fans
Painted faces and fireworks
The music still sucks

[ghostsofgiants]

48. That...was beautiful.

*wipes tear*

[evlbstrd]

20. They inducted Zappa and The Clash.

I'm satisfied.
Always despised KISS.

[Joey Liberal]

22. KISS belongs in the HOF

It's just a matter of time. KISS will be in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. They deserve it.

[johnnie]

24. Fuck the Rock Hall

I live 10 minutes from there and have never been there. When they were petitioning to get it here, my g/f at the time proudly told me she signed my name. I was pissed and told her that it is a fucking joke and you can't put "Rock and Roll" into a museum. It makes no sense.

As for Kiss, they were a huge influence in Rock and should be in there, but I guess Billy Joel is more of a rocker :eyes:

The whole concept is just plain wrong, but oh well. There is a sucker born every minute.

[mdmc]

26. anyone got a list of inductees?

I'd like to see who is in. Are the Ramones? The Grateful Dead?

[johnnie]

28. I know the Ramones are

An old friend of mine (now deceased) went to the Hall with Dee Dee and he said Dee Dee was laughing because they had his tennis shoes. My friend and Dee Dee both died around the same time of the same thing.

[evlbstrd]

29. The Ramones and the Dead are in.

Here's a link to the complete list:
http://www.rockhall.com/hof/allinductees.asp

[trogdor]

47. Look at the bands that made the cut.

This is a VERY select group. Led Zeppelin, for example, is arguably the Beethoven of rock. If that is true, then what is KISS?

[evlbstrd]

49. Sorry.

I just can't get behind KISS. I've always despised them.
I don't even like the Dead. My favorite musician is Frank Zappa. KISS represents everything that Zappa hated about the Music Industry. Why is music an industtry?

[last_texas_dem]

59. But

there are others who have made the cut that I would argue are about as deserving as Kiss. For example, the Righteous Brothers and the Bee Gees. I personally like both of those acts more than Kiss, but it's very debatable whether either of them had more influence over rock and roll than Kiss did.

[evlbstrd]

95. Righteous Brothers definitely belong.

The Bee Gees, maybe not so much, except for earlier stuff, which I liked not much more than their disco stuff.
But, really, it's like the Grammies. Pretty soon they're gonna run out of performers/bands to add.

[mdmc]

90. thanks for the link

:kick:

[benny05]

37. Yes to Both

And they should be there

[tigereye]

42. although the question of who should get in and why and when

are no doubt part of what makes people despise the place, I have to say that I was particularly impressed by the building itself (gorgeous and so odd right there by the lake) and the way that they were able to tell the history of musical influences ( and pretty accurately I might add) in one interactive section filled with kids and adults learning some good history, and a good history of early rock and roll radio in another section. It's worth the admission, just for those. Also I met some fascinating people there. The movies about the nominees, well, yes, there's a boatload of hype.

(also to see Joey Ramone's jacket, but that's another story.) ;)

[johnnie]

43. Oh, I don't care who gets in or not

When I first discovered Rock and Roll, it was something that hit me deep inside my soul and I felt the feeling of non-conformity. I played music and lived it and when they started talking about a museum, I was pissed. The Rock Hall is everything Rock isn't.

[Spider Jerusalem]

53. KISS = 'huge influence'?

On whom? Besides, maybe, Insane Clown Posse (lookswise, at least)?

[sendero]

31. I guess they are going for acts..

... that appeal to people over 15.

[pink-o]

32. I lived in England all during the Kiss era

..and lucky me! I never had to deal with listening to their schlock on Capital Radio in London!!

I can't stand Kiss and I can't stand the Hall of Fame. Rock and Roll used to stand for rebellion and radical thought, the Hall of Fame is just one more mainstream nail in its coffin. But I really really despise Gene Simmons. He was interviewed on Australian radio, calling Muslims "ragheads" and sounding like a fucked-up rightwinged Zionist (which he is--but don't flame me, I'm Jewish too)calling for their extermination. Funny how he would never say shit racist hate shit on American radio, but that bastard is just as bad as Mel Gibson in my eyes.

I hope his Ozzie-imitation fake show tanks on A & E!

[Kat45]

56. He was born in Haifa (Israel)

I believe he still has family there. Not an excuse for his thinking, just a reason explaining it.

[Throd]

33. Know It Still Sucks

Even when I was 10 years old back in 1977 I could tell they sucked dead weasel anus.

[last_texas_dem]

39. Kiss aren't in b/c the R&RHoF is a misnomer...

Whether you love Kiss or not (and I can take or leave them myself, though I do enjoy a few of their songs) it's ridiculous for any body calling itself the Rock and Roll Hall of FAME to snub one of the most popular, best-known rock bands from inclusion simply based on critical opinion. It's the same reason they almost totally exclude the entire genre of progressive rock despite the massive popularity of many of the bands playing this style of music in the seventies. It is not influence on other artists, despite the arguments of Hall defenders to the contrary, nor the popularity of artists, that determine influence into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but it is, more than anything and with very few exceptions, critical opinion. And while I have no problem with an organization wanting to honor critically-loved rock and roll acts, I do have a problem with it doing it under the pretense that it's a true rock and roll hall of "fame." It puts the determination of who is and who isn't a rock and roll great into the hands of a small elite and makes this determination far more subjective and controversial than it need be. Notice that the major divide between inclusion being based on "fame" vs. inclusion being based on critical opinion begins in the seventies, interestingly the same decade in which "rock and roll criticism" began to thrive. This is hardly a coincidence.

[Robeson]

51. Jethro Tull is not in the "Rock" Hall of Fame, which shows how bogus...

...the whole thing is.

[last_texas_dem]

64. I agree

The Hall's snub of progressive rock in general is proof that they're letting their own opinions as "rock critics" get in the way of fairly determining who does and does not deserve induction. Almost all of the most glaring omissions from the hall are prog-rock bands.

[Robeson]

65. No doubt. Rock critics have had a historical hard-on against...

...Jethro Tull. It started with the Passion Play LP, when they attacked the band for it. However, Tull was unrelenting, and defended themselves for that album, and attacked the critics. The establishment never forgave Tull for "questioning" their opinions.

Jethro Tull, not being in the Hall of Fame, only discredits the Hall of Fame.

[devilgrrl]

55. In what way has KISS influenced rock music?

Presentation and marketing perhaps but very little else.

BTW, is Gene Simmons (Chiam Witz) paying people to show up? I can't believe anyone would be that stupid to protest at the "Rock & Roll Hall of Lame".

[Floogeldy]

57. `

:smoke:

[last_texas_dem]

58. For better or worse

I think many if not most of the popular hard rock bands that came out in the eighties on into the early nineties were influenced in one degree or another by Kiss. Yeah, a lot of it may be in their presentation, like you noted, but I think the style of just basic hard rock music about sex and partying was made popular by Kiss perhaps more than any other band. It's not that Kiss were exactly pioneers in the field, but they definitely played a style that achieved massive popularity with the public and influenced plenty of similarly-minded bands that followed. The fact that they never won over rock critics seems to be the primary thing keeping them out, which is the main reason I disagree with their being excluded. (As, like I noted above, I'm not much of a fan of the group.)

[Floogeldy]

61. Name one.

Name one band that was influenced in one degree or another by Kiss.

[devilgrrl]

62. I'm sure the hair bands of the 80's were...

but I'm sorry, KISS didn't change music, they didn't create anything new or innovative musically that Alice Cooper or the New York Dolls didn't do first. In fact both of those acts belong before KISS. They were all stage show and that's it.

[Floogeldy]

87. I have to admit, though . . .

. . . that "Beth" is a pretty nice song. ;)

[last_texas_dem]

63. Alright, I'm making assumptions here, but...

I'd assume the whole legion of commercial hard rock bands, from Def Leppard to Poison and Warrant to numerous second- and third-tiers like Slaughter, Winger, Jackyl and the like, were influenced by Kiss. Whether the groups they (Kiss) influenced are hall of fame calibre or not is another question, but they were performing perhaps the most well-known and popular style of rock for a good portion of the late eighties and into the early nineties.

[kwassa]

74. which is why rock got so borrrrinnnnng.

[ComerPerro]

67. KISS is pathetic, they are hacks. What's next, Motley Crue?

[RedStateShame]

68. What?! With all those KISS fans protesting, what Waffle House is open?!

Seriously, big whoop. Thanx, KISS, for blending mind-rotting drivel with crass commercialism!! Now, the Replacements' first album came out in 1981, which would make them eligible for R&RHOF status. Somebody needs to get on that ASAP.

[matcom]

69. KISS SUCKED ASS

fucking Carnival band :eyes:

"Beth?"

ppppuuuuuuuullllleeeeeeeeesssseeee

[Philosoraptor]

70. but..but...without Kiss there would be no GWAR..!!!!!!!!!!

[Frank Cannon]

72. Call me when Kate Bush or the Moody Blues make it in

I guess I just don't understand the whole point of the R&RHOF. If it's to honor innovators, then I can't understand why Kate Bush (who did everything before Madonna, Tori Amos, etc., came around) or the Moody Blues (who at least pioneered the "concept album") haven't been inducted. If its purpose is to honor groups who were commercially successful, then I don't get why the Electric Light Orchestra or at least Jeff Lynne (who has produced just about everybody since ELO) aren't included.

I jest doan geddit.

[kwassa]

73. Kiss still sucks. Novelty act gone very wrong.

[Lareina1970]

77. KISS?

Sorry, I think Alice Cooper is a better choice for induction.

[devilgrrl]

79. Alice Cooper, the New York Dolls...

The Stooges, etc... all far superior than KISS.

[mac56]

78. Wake me up when the Monkees get admitted.

That is to say, when Jann Wenner pulls the oversized bug out of his ass and lets them in.

[JVS]

81. KISS shouldn't have been gambling on organized music

[mvd]

85. No disrespect to their fans, but I think..

there are many, many that deserve it over them. I don't even like their music.

[NC_Nurse]

88. They suck

so isn't that a good enough reason to leave them out?

[Merrick]

89. Boy, you'd think one corporate gimmick might at least pretend

to respect another. I don't know which I care less about - the rock and roll hall of fame or the band known as KISS. fuck em both.

[cleofus1]

91. rock and roll is for kids

it's not deep philosophy...it's chuck berry trying to get into some chicks panties...but his seatbelt is stuck...it's john lennon (now was that john or paul?) whining about holding some teen queens hand while paul and ringo maintain a very simple backbeat...primative, puerile, adolescent sex fantasies....that is rock...KISS needs jack shit from the Hall o' Fame...but for the simple fact they put out one of the most perfect rock albums of all time, "destroyer", they should be in there...judas priest too! fuck yeah dude! now paSS that joint and shut the fuck up....

[cleofus1]

92. i really only like one album from kiss

and never saw them in concert



they look like rock and roll hall of fame material to me!

[Floogeldy]

93. True

But on the other hand, Trix are for kids, too.

:smoke:

[cleofus1]

94. and that's why we have to keep close watch

on all those fucking rabbits! oh yesss...they hop....