so i have this really shitty job history

[datasuspect]

have been out of work for three years with the exception of some fly by night stuff that never lasts longer than three weeks (and ALWAYS involves small business people, which are some of the shadiest, shystiest motherfuckers out there).

so here's my problem: with this shoddy job history, i fear prospective employers are booting my resume as soon as they get it.

in fact i KNOW they are, because i had was once that person who used to screen resumes.

and yes, the job history i have raises all manner of red flags.

this is what i am planning to do:

manufacture a former employer to neatly account for those three years.

nothing extravagant, just that i worked on a contract/consulting basis for a small consultant/consulting group. have a person who will corroborate my information.

has anyone else done something else like this?

have you ever had to overcome a shitty job history obstacle?

[thefool_wa]

1. Just know

If they ever discover your ruse, they will fire you on the spot.

[pitohui]

16. being fired on the spot is better than never having work at all

if his chance of being hired by telling the truth is approximately zero then even if one day he is found out and fired he still has all the months or even years of earnings that he would not have otherwise had

there is simply no downside when you've got nothing to lose

[greatauntoftriplets]

18. Have you never had your references checked?

It's an employer's market out there. References these days are checked VERY carefully. CherokeeDem, who actually WORKS in HR, upthread gives excellent advice.

[datasuspect]

28. the last time i checked references

as part of a job, they use low cost background screener services which check criminal backgrounds, public records, credit.

an employer can't legally get your Social Security Administration job history info without you signing off on that.

aside from information you report, there isn't much they can really do.

however, the last time i worked in HR was as late as 2002.

[thefool_wa]

53. I agree

just making sure he knew the score.

Large comapnies are notorious for going looking for this type of thing if they need to get rid of people in a department and don't want to suffer the backlash of layoffs (at least I've worked for one where this was SOP in the HR department)

Suddenly they start actually doing the background checks that they said they did before you got the job and fire you for not telling them you were arrested when you were 18, didn't go to X school, or that Y company doesn't actually exist, etc, etc.

OP: If you have nothing to loose now and are willing to risk it, go for it. But, it could become a real problem later when you actually do have something to loose.

[wildhorses]

2. what else have you done with the 3 years?

caretaker for a sick/dying family member? any charity works? any higher education?

[datasuspect]

3. drank a lot of booze, lost touch with reality, and lived out in the

margins.

not much to fall back on as far as accounting for time.

it's almost like i just got out of prison.

[wildhorses]

5. you gotta spin it somehow...

like a sabbatical in the wilderness where you trekked the highest peaks in the eastern half of the continent...you know sumpin like that...


hey, after all, you were high, right?

[datasuspect]

6. thought about that

but figured a more plausible sounding lie might work as well if not better than a far out one.

[Breeze54]

4. Suggestion:

Take ANY part time job or full-time, for that matter.

Volunteer for something...clean shelter cages, help the homeless, work in a retirement/rest home.

Rebuild your resume' that way! If you lie, they'll find out, eventually.

[idgiehkt]

12. another thing I just thought of would be take a temporary job

and then go looking for something permanent. Because having any kind of job seems to change the way you look pretty radically in people's eyes.

[Redneck Socialist]

7. I had a friend who padded her resume along the lines...

of what you are proposing. She had someone who was willing to corroborate for her. She scored a job she really wanted.

What's my point? What you are proposing is risky (and may get you fired down the line) but it worked for the person I know.

[graywarrior]

8. Yeah, the volunteer thing works...I got a great job out of that

Volunteer doing something that uses your talents. Find a non-profit that has the money to pay. Develop your own position with them. Meanwhile, do something part time. You have to put in the time, make your bones again.

Only way saying you've been a consultant is if you can back it up.

[Evergreen Emerald]

9. I believe it is a crime in some states to lie on the resume!

Pad it with volunteer work.

[pitohui]

17. oh don't be silly

you don't believe any such thing

lies are not against the law, you are not under oath when you are writing a resume, jeebus people

i realize you're joking around but this situation is serious to the job-seeker

being creative on the resume is a time honored way of advancing oneself

[Magrittes Pipe]

23. "lies are not against the law"

Fraud is.

[datasuspect]

30. well fortunately companies are not completely god-like

yet.

and i've never heard of a criminal conviction on misrepresentation or lying about background unless it involved some other kind of malfeasance that financially benefitted the perpetrator. shit, i don't even have to lie about my academic crendentials, those are real.

maybe i SHOULD have to live out in the street. i suppose that would be a more workable solution than seeking to work for a living.

sheesh.

[pitohui]

35. where is the fraud?

sorry i'm not under oath when i'm writing somebody's resume

that is pretty funny, i got to admit

this person ain't worked in 3 years, being honest is obviously not working for them

[Evergreen Emerald]

32. Here is the story from the Seattle PI

Friday, March 3, 2006 • Last updated 4:55 p.m. PT

Fake diploma could land you in jail

By CANDACE HECKMAN
P-I REPORTER

Not only would it become illegal for people to lie on their resumes about their academic credentials, but according to a bill lawmakers passed today, the move could land that liar in jail.
State senators unanimously amended and approved a bill that would make issuing or using a fake or otherwise unaccredited degree a class C felony, a crime of fraud that could warrant five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
The new legislation also makes it illegal to lie orally, as well as in writing.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/261687_diploma03ww.html

Edited to add URL

[pitohui]

36. he didn't say a fake diploma, he said a fake job

he is going to have a friend pretend to be his boss who hired him as a consultant/contractor for the last 3 years

that is not pretending you have a diploma when you don't -- altho i wonder why anybody still lives in the state of washington since apparently everything not mandatory is illegal

that is truly sad and sorry place you guys are creating for yourself

when the washington state prisons are full of guys playing 2cent/4cent online poker at stars and no-hopers who exaggerated on their resume, where are you going to put the child molestor or the murderer?

maybe there WILL be jobs for everyone in this huge prison system ya'll are creating

[idgiehkt]

38. "everything not mandatory is illegal"

ROLFLAMO! :rofl:

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. yikes!

Despite your aggressive and hostile response to a conversation, I agree with you to an extent. It does seem a bit much to make it a crime to lie on a resume about your educational level. However, knowing that it is taken extremely seriously by employers is something this poster, who wants to lie on his resume, may want to consider in making his decision. He did ask for advice after all.

Child Molesters: we actually have in WA significant laws that protect children.

[KurtNYC]

50. I have to think that is different

If someone claims or creates a degree from a University that exists they are committing fraud because thy claim an endorsement/certification from that entity. (Also have to think it would be a major issue to falsely claim a medical degree!)

If you make up a company / employer then at least the lie is only between you and the potential employer.

[Lasher]

52. You mean like this?

Candidate 'war veteran' and 'Harvard degree' claims challenged

A GOP challenger to Rep. Alan Mohollan (D-WV) has come under scrutiny after accusations he falsely claimed to be a veteran of the first Gulf war. Republican candidate Chris Wakim (right) has also been questioned about the type of graduate degree he received from Harvard University, ROLL CALL is reporting today.

Wakim currently serves as a member of the House of Delegates in West Virginia.

He has claimed to be a veteran of the first Gulf War, honorably discharged for injuries sustained "in the line of duty." However, the Delegate was actually stationed at Fort Devens in Massachusetts from 1988 to 1991, the period encompassing the war.

Waskim has also been questioned about his claim of earning a “Masters Degree in Public Policy from Harvard.” Wakim did not attend Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, the only school at Harvard that awards such a degree. ROLL CALL reports he "graduated from the Harvard Extension School, and he received a Masters in Liberal Arts." Harvard Extension School has open enrollment, meaning everyone is accepted for courses. The school is not a part of Harvard University, although the two schools are affiliated.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/GOP_challenger_claims_war_veteran_status_0802.html

[Ghost in the Machine]

10. working construction, I used to bounce around jobs a lot...

If I filled out an application, I always just put down that I was self employed, with my own contracting business, that kept me busy between jobs...

[idgiehkt]

11. yes.

people do it all the time I think. I don't know anyone personally who has; I've fudged a couple of months here and there but that's all. Two public figures I know who did it and got away with it until they got famous and didn't need to anymore are Omarosa and Jessica Cutler (Washingtonienne). Luckily for me I've had a constant part-time employer for 3 years, so that helps me a little even though it's not the same as a full time job. But if you invent one it's probably a good idea to have someone lined up on the other end to field the call. Of course they could research the company and find out it doesn't exist, or call and ask for a listing, or even go online, and you aren't going to be able to control online stuff. It's so hard because they really don't want anyone with any gaps in employment...it's such a pain. Good luck.

[CherokeeDem]

13. Bad Job Record

I have been in HR for many years and currently manage a medical staffing company...please don't make up a phony company...they will find out. Best thing to do is what another poster said...you were traveling, taking care of sick relative, whatever but try not to make the story to big or crazy. Even the consulting job will be looked upon as suspect, I know, I actually had a HR consulting business for four years and when I decided to move to FL (now back in KY) I had to take a job working for someone else to have a valid reference even though I had a lot of clients to use as references. When I was an Executive Recruiter, I told people: "Never lie on your resume, application or in an interview. Just don't tell them everything you know. Only answer the questions." You are right, if your resume raises too many red flags it will be rejected.

Someone mentioned doing temporary work...if you have a skill like customer service, clerical, bookkeeping, something they can measure then that is probably your best bet. Try to get a long term or temporary to permanent assignment, and hopefully it will lead to a full time job.

Good luck! PM me if there is anything else I can help with; be glad to do so.

Debbie

[Throd]

14. You are a drunk and a liar

who is unwilling to accept the consequences of his actions. You are selling experience you don't have to any potential employer.

Now to get off my high horse. I spent a decade in the bottle with jack shit to show for it. To get out of my rut, I held a series of lousy jobs while learning a marketable skill at night school. The crappiness of those jobs was my incentive to do well in school. As time went by, the jobs and pay got better and better.

[datasuspect]

21. tell me something i don't know

and in my area (job market is for shit) i'm considering doing this to get a shitty job.

retail (cash handling/access to inventory) often requires higher standards than professional jobs i have had.

believe me, i know what it is to lose dignity, but i really don't want to be homeless again.

[pitohui]

15. i think a lot of people do this

it will work better than not doing it, at this point you have nothing to lose, you're not going to get a job w. the truth

[WCGreen]

19. Oh, let me see.... I am a small business man....

So I guess I am too shady to offer you advice....

[datasuspect]

22. the specific ones i have dealt with

followed that description, i have no idea what ALL small business people are like. but water seeks its own level, so i seem to have placed myself in situations where i have dealt with tax cheaters, bribers, assholes who don't want to pay you, etc.

not saying it is really their fault. they are doing what THEY need to do to survive, it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

[WCGreen]

24. I see.....

I have too run into many suspect small business folks....

But I just got rid of them as clients....

[kedrys]

20. You can always got the freelance/self-employed route

It consolidates all those short-term gigs without actually lying about what you've been up to. I've tried it successfully and aced background checks in the process.

Good luck!

[Shakespeare]

34. Second that--a friend of mine did that, and FINALLY got a job.

He listed it as something like "independent contractor" doing courier work. There was some truth to it (stitching together the assorted jobs), and it was a safe way to spin his recent work history. I strongly suggest you not just fabricate something on your resume, because odds are you will get caught--and that doesn't even touch on the fact that it's flat-out unethical.

[The Sower]

25. Some friends I worked for supported an expanded version of what I did

and how long I did it.

Maybe if you know someone who owns a business, you could do the same.

[mad-mommy]

26. let me know if I can help

If you could do it, would you consider going back to school? Changing careers? Or furthering education? I know that's a big IF. Once you would be done, it would be like starting fresh. Other than that, Do you know of anyone you can network with? Someone who can help you get a job? I had a tough spot, I quit working for this jerk...i couldn't use him as a reference, and he belonged to the country club, and many community organizations, and since I worked in a public situation, people noticed me gone, and he probably bad mouthed me, like he did the others. Of course they would have to know he was a jerk, when I went for one job interview, they commented he had a revolving door of workers, but they never called me back for the job. I was really down and out, but a friend of ours started his business and landed up needing someone, knew that I was a good worker, and I got the job, and that got me back on track. I am really hoping for you, something like this will happen. I'm pretty good at resume and cover letters, so people tell me, as I do them for family/friends. Is there any way i could possibly help? please let me know. email me, or whatever.

[datasuspect]

27. i appreciate that

i actually still keep in good contact with older references that predate my "schism" with myself, and they can be relied on to substantiate a large portion of my background, but this three year hole is killing me.

it almost seems like employers are using an even finer toothed comb nowadays in the initial screening phases.

and i'm not going after professional or office work. my location doesn't really support very much corporate employment, save for the petrochemical plants, but there is plentiful low-skilled and low-paying retail and service work (which i think is true in much of small town united states).

[mad-mommy]

29. it's small town here too...

well, again, let me know, I can be crafty with a resume, and totally honest at the same time.

[smtpgirl]

31. That's been my whole life

But I am in IT so you go where the $ is!!!!

I have had so many jobs, that I should be a GM, from manufacturing, landscaping, business, Retail, IT, medical, CSR

[elocs]

33. My advice would be to work for a temp agency.

I don't know what your job skills may be, but temp agencies are always looking for bodies for unskilled work. Generally, if you work for them they will keep you working. You can try out different jobs and maybe build up experience working in one area. There are places that look at temps to hire for their open positions--kind of like dating before marriage, for both of you. But for this to work, even with a temp agency, you have to actually show up for work and do the work well. I currently work for a temp agency which has a big customer that asks for me by name when they need somebody. It makes me look good as well as the agency and could possibly lead to a good full time job doing something I like.

[Porcupine]

37. Do a datasearch for closed businesses in your local paper.

Or in the nearest large big city. Many large corporations have cashed out in recent years in your area. Choose one. That was your employer. How the hell are you supposed to corraberate that you worked there? Hell, I don't know. I worked for Homebase for 2 years once. It reads five on my resume. Who's to tell. The local papers usually have articles about larger businesses that are closing so that makes the search easy. Lexis-Nexis at your local library; the reference librarian if asked nicely will help you out.

As to all you naysayers that are on the "oooh, you're telling a lie" train. STFU!! A corporation has no moral standing and therefore you owe it nothing other than enough labor to continue collecting your paycheck and enough honesty to stay out of jail and the courthouse. Remember a corporation will hire and fire you (as they did me) without a moment's thought as to your welfare the minute after they have fulfulled their obligation to pay you. You owe them NOTHING.

Good luck on your job hunt and continued sobriety.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

39. You got to spin it a bunch on resume

I've done that in the past because who doesn't have shoddy job history in the past 5 years if you know what I mean. Say you worked somewhere 9 months at the beginning and end of that job add a month. If you have big gaps in your work history say you went on a missionary trip somewhere, If they asked for detailed info say you want your privacy when it comes to religion, nothing further they can say. I say go for it on manufacturing a employer, if you've hit a dead road what else can you do, worst that could happen is they find out and fire you better than having no job. Anyways you then at least have that job to add to your resume. Good luck datasuspect on getting a job, I'm looking for employment right now and it can be dis hearting.

[Floogeldy]

40. Deliver pizzas, flip burgers, mow lawns, deliver papers . . .

. . . do some fucking shit.

[Kathryn STone]

41. you sound like my parents

they want us to get all this prestigious education ( I have a BA from AZ STATE) and continue to educate (I also hold a paralegal cert from a Kapalan school that is ABA approved.)
So now here I am look at me and if you want a job at the places you list they're like "we don't have any management positions available"
Read (yes, read...) a book by Dostoyevsky called House of the Dead.
Similar to his life, he winds up in a prison camp with convicts of a much much lower class then he, and they abuse the fucking shit out of him, haze him, etc.
My boyfriend has an older brother-he plays the violin-Master's in performance from NORTHWESTERN.
Can he get a job?
what do you think?

[Floogeldy]

42. Of course he can get a job.

Just not a job playing the violin. Musicians, actresses, and people who are trained to do whatever datasuspect is trained to do work all of the time until they find a job doing what they want to do. Being unemployed for three years and refusing to do any job except the preferred job is self-defeating, don't ya think?

:)

[datasuspect]

43. there really hasn't been much refusal

i've done some things here and there.

a lot of it has been inability and most of it has been been because there isn't work to be had.

believe me, there isn't a hair i haven't torn out.

i lived out in the street in chicago for quite a few months and did the things along the lines you specify: sporadically washed windows, cleaned out toilets here and there, and yes, even worked at a restaurant in the kitchen - ALL WITH NO PLACE TO LIVE amd all off the books. you would be lucky if you could string 2 or 3 days of work out of that.

and you know what, a single person cannot afford to live on those wages. less than 150 per week or at best 230 per week.

plus now i live in a semi rural location. no transportation. i don't have a car. i can get scattered rides, but i bike it or walk most of the time and would have to do that to the limited places i could work. in the texas heat. 112 heat indices, that in itself is a fucking hell.

the bike or walk entails riding or walking 2.5 miles down the shoulder of a major U.S. highway with cars and trucks whizzing by at about 80 mph. then another 5 into the actual town, another 2 or so to the retail strip that abuts the town.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. I don't know. Somehow my brother, who wishes to be a comedian,

managed to keep a roof over his head for 10 years in Chicago... by waiting tables and bartending. Not glamorous, but it put food on the table, and he managed to save. He lived right across the street from Wrigley Field with two roomates. I think you could make it. If you were willing to work some scrub jobs to get there.

[datasuspect]

45. i don't live there anymore

mileage varies with each model.

i mean, it's too bad every homeless person in the city of chicago can't be more like your brother.

i don't consider myself any different from any of them.

i used to have that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality until i lost my boots.

[ScreamingMeemie]

46. You're going to be okay.

Consider yourself different, for starters. You overcame a lot of adversity. Don't stop now.

My brother was never homeless. He worked four jobs at one time. Start small and work your way up data. I have a lot of faith in you. :yourock:

[bleedingheart]

48. I strongly recommend that you DO NOT do that

because it will bite you on the ass when you least expect it and when you can least afford it.

Let us say you get a decent job.

Let us say that you do well enough to get promoted.

Let us say that about 5-6 years from now you are settled in, happy and doing a good job....and then....

Your employer switches hands, or the HR department does some snooping, or someone who doesn't like you decides to do some snooping...and Voila...lost job.

I have known folks who have done that and they have had it come out at the worst times and then been upset that they lost a great job over "one little mistake"...all the while they knew better..

[calico1]

49. Let me see if I understand this..

You say small business people are shady shysters. Yet you are ready to do something very shady to get a job? Is that correct?

I would strongly advise against lying on your resume. Despite what the Bush administration claims, there is not a great job market out there. What that means is employers can and will be pickier, which means there is a greater chance that they will look into your background. While it's true they can't ask you for you social security number before they hire you, they will have it afterward. And as someone else mentioned it can come back to bite you when you least expect it. I know of two cases where I worked that this happened. One guy was found out after 3 years on the job! You can make up a company or have a friend lie for you, but your social security will show when you worked, as will your IRS records. Instead, I would advise you do something more positive..like get temp jobs. Temp agencies are a good way to get experience when you have had a lag in employment history. Also, check out your state Dept of Labor. They may be able to help you in the way of computer courses or further education. It's worth at least looking into. You should also consider doing volunteer work. That counts toward experience and it shows the prospective employer that you are using your time in a productive manner.

[datasuspect]

51. well yes that is correct

i have deteriorated enough where i can traffic well with shady types. the point is, i would like to rehabilitate my overall position. you know move away from a garbage life and garbage associations with shady people which i can admit i have become too close to.

NB: i did NOT say ALL small businesspeople. just the overwhelming majority i have personally run across, i apologize for not inserting an overwhelming amount of qualifiers in my initial post.

i actually have about 2 years of post baccalaureate work and exemplary skills, computer-wise, business development-wise, and in sales.

fyi: you have to sign a release for employers to search your social security records.

geez, not directed at you, i pray to god that many people out there do NOT have a series of fucked up shit happen to them. self-inflicted or otherwise.

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. Write a functional rather than chronological resume

A functional resume would focus on your skills, not your job history.

http://www.execsearches.com/articles/Chronological_vs_Functional.htm

[liberalhistorian]

55. As a paralegal and former investigator for

a national employment background screening company, and as someone who's trying to start a "career commuications" business on the side, I say emphatically DON'T DO IT! You WILL be found out, I guarantee it, if not at first, then later on in the job. And they use the social security number required on your application to do a "reverse HAWK" check, which means they can use your ssn to check all of your previous jobs, whether you've listed them or not. DO NOT DO THIS. As bad as things are for you right now, you will only make them worse and make it virtually impossible for you to find a job, even sweeping floors at McDonald's. Even if you could get away with it, it would still be ethically and morally wrong.

Here are some ideas you can try: Use any volunteer work on a resume; sign up with a temporary employment agency and be willing to take whatever job they give you at first, even if it's cleaning chicken guts from the floor of a slaughterhouse; try to stay with a temporary job for at least six months, if not more; update and customize your resume to each specific position you're applying for, and customize your cover letter as well; try using your skills and knowledge on a freelance basis.