"Martyrdom is the highest form of narcissism" - True or false?

[Taverner]

One one hand, it's true - the martyr, like the narcissist sees themselves and their sacrifice as the center of the universe.

On the other hand, we do need martyrs every so often...

[billyskank]

1. Depends on the kind of martyr

many martyrs die in anticipation of being honoured by history, so yes I think it is fair to say they are very self-regarding people. But I dare say many of the most influential martyrs are ones who died accidentally, and it would not be fair to call them narcissists.

[Taverner]

2. True. I don't think Steven Biko wanted to go out when he did

[applegrove]

5. Absolutely. Great example. I don't think real martyrs try and die.

Just like real heroes don't try and die either. They are working towards something. And then something bad happens.

Don't know about Che G. to say if he is a real or not martyr. Or someone like Jim Morrison? Does a drug addict count?

Jesus Christ seems like a good example of a good martyr. He was working towards big changes in how people related to each other.. as a group and as individuals. Before monotheism... murders took place all over the place all the time. And people spent much of their day doing things (like following cultural norms) to avoid being stoned to death on a whim. So all those folk who came up with the golden rule be it Buddha or JC or whomever.. they are great martyrs. They did great things at great risk to themselves. Which begs the question.. if Che and Buddha didn't die at the hand of their enemies? are they martyrs? What about... people who did great things and lived to a ripe old age?

[tjwmason]

7. An interesting point

one of the reasons that the cause for the canonisation of Archbishop Oscar Romero isn't going along very quickly has been the suggestion that he sought martyrdom - according to the rules martyrdom has to find one, rather than ever be encouraged by one...at least them's are the rules for Catholics.

[Fleshdancer]

3. I'm not so much worried about the motivation as I am the end result

If the martyr sacrificed in order to make the world a better place, does it really matter if s/he is narcissistic?

[applegrove]

4. Delete - double post n/t

[leftofthedial]

6. it's true of the fundy rapturists

[Deja Q]

8. Probably. But who's worth dying for?

n/t

[LeftyMom]

9. Giving one's life for a just cause is as unselfish as it comes.

The trick is seeing a worthy cause and the right opportunity to be a instigator of change. Humans are not so great at seeing consequences of thier actions on a societal scale.

[Deja Q]

10. And then the willingness to do it...

I posted a poll a long time ago asking something like this. Everybody said "no". Nobody would want to die so others would live.

Oh, and convincing one's relatives that you're doing the right thing. :crazy:

[LeftyMom]

11. It probably depends on the circumstances.

Any decent parent would die to save thier own child. It's not any special virtue, it's a function of our biology. Other people's kids? Especially if unrelated, dying in thier defense is much less likely.

Unrelated persons close enough to be considered family sometimes, as with military guys in the same units, or when training overcomes instinct, as with secret service agents trained to meatshield the president in case of an attack.

To die not in defense of a loved one but in defense of an idea is rare, and it's why the Nathan Hales and Joan of Arcs of the world are remembered long after the issues that inspired thier sacrifice are settled.