ok, a question about foie gras.

[ulysses]

Why?

A Corollary to Uly's First Puzzlement of Gastronomy (which asks, "How hungry was the first guy to look at a lobster and say, 'I'll bet I could eat that'?") is this - How bored was the first guy to think, "I'll bet that if I forcefeed this foul-tempered goose for a while, his liver will taste really good on a cracker"?

Then again, pate of any kind has never appealed to me.

[GOPisEvil]

1. You want a serious answer?

I bet it came from the days when people wouldn't waste anything on an animal. I bet someone was thinking, "Hmm, now that I've eaten all the meat, what about the organs?" "Hmm, the liver, not good all by itself, maybe with some flavorings and a cracker, it wouldn't be half-bad."

I'm not a pate guy either. Then again, I don't eat organ meat of any critter.

[ulysses]

4. I'd take that if the animal hadn't been forcefed for however long.

If you're not willing to waste any part of an animal, I can't see you being willing to pump grain down the animal's throat just to plump the liver.

Then again, I don't eat organ meat of any critter.

I'm not opposed to organ meat absolutely, but I don't eat anything that has a cleansing function in an animal. :)

[GOPisEvil]

6. Well, I'm just explaining the FIRST whacko to try it.

I can't explain the whackos that followed. ;)

[ulysses]

10. :) true enough.

On an email list to which I belong, I have two ongoing characters (Cletus and Clem) who I can see having a role soon in the development of foie gras. :D

[LeftyMom]

2. Oddly enough, I know the answer to this

Somebody (the Egyptians I think) figured out that waterfowl killed after eating well to fuel thier migration but before flying off for parts then unknown, had enlarged, fatty livers which they found tasty. Force feeding is an attempt to induce the seasonal condition all year long and to produce larger livers than occur naturally, unfortunately at great expense to the bird's health.

[ulysses]

5. aha! that I can see.

:)

[Floogeldy]

29. I get it.

:)

[jpgray]

3. I think the invention of toast is more compelling

Twice- baked bread?

[ulysses]

8. easier to imagine the history, though.

Og drops his bread in the fire and decides that the blackened parts add a certain je nais se quois.

[Xipe Totec]

11. Until Professor William Buckland came along,

to give the world that gastronomic treasure, grilled mice on toast.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. The bigger and fatter an animal is, the better.

That's why you fatten up farm animals before you butcher them.

It's not much of a stretch of logic to go to force feeding.

[ulysses]

12. hey, I like a marbled ribeye as much as anyone.

I just don't get foie gras. Seems like a lot of effort for...what?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. There you've got me.

I've never been a fan of liver.

I'd kill for veal though.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

17. Actually, you are killing for veal.

You're killing a baby cow and just paying somebody else to do it for you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. That's what I said. Kill for veal.

It's tastier because it's cute.

[Karenca]

27. Baby Cows: Meat Is Murder, Veal Is Torture

there are two things in conjunction that cause a calf’s flesh to have the pale color and tenderness required for veal. The calves must be entirely anemic (iron deficient), as it is iron that gives healthy flesh its red color. In addition, the calves must be kept from any sort of exercise that would give them muscles and thus toughen up their flesh. Calves slated to become veal are taken from the mothers almost immediately. This is, of course, a very disturbing thing to happen to any young mammal, but it must be done so that they can be put in pens.

These tiny pens, two feet wide by five feet long, are so small that the calves cannot turn around, or move forwards or backwards. Calves usually develop open sores from rubbing against the walls of the crates. This is the meat industry’s ingenious method of depriving them of the ability to develop any sort of musculature.

The next part of the system is to deprive the calves of all possible iron. This is accomplished, first, by feeding them an all-liquid diet totally devoid of iron. They are deprived of water so that they will be more inclined to ingest large quantities of this liquid feed. Under these circumstances, the calves will attempt to drink their own urine; iron is voided in the urine, and this is a desperate attempt to reclaim as much as possible. If you think that this speaks to the stupidity of the animal, you would be well advised to know that it takes very desperate straits for cows to resort to this (unlike many humans, who have embraced it as a health craze). The truth is, any infant mammal deprived of iron for long enough would do exactly the same thing.

The calves, however, are not allowed even this paltry comfort. Their heads are chained to the top of the crate so that they cannot reach the floor with their mouths. This has the added effect of preventing them from lying down, stretching, or make any other attempt at finding a comfortable position. Deprived of many necessary nutrients, the calves are also heavily drugged in an attempt to keep them alive until they reach the necessary weight for premium slaughtering profit (about 350 lbs.). Veal farmers have tried to come up with ways to get them even heavier, but after about 14 weeks the calves are so anemic that to let them go much longer almost always results in death.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:pzxwTBzlUJ8J:www.tsl.pomona.edu/archives/99/1008/OPINIONS/05.html+veal+torture&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

[radwriter0555]

62. Well, the taste is like unimaginable. Paired up with a light sauce of fig

and slightly chilled on some thin toast points, it truly is a taste delight beyond compare. It's light, sweet, delicate, fragrant, and can be a souce of astonishment...

It's just hard to explain. You have to try it, have it done well, to understand it.

[greatauntoftriplets]

9. uly, you may be in for it now....

:scared:

:hide:

[ulysses]

13. you know I'm a sucker for the controversial stuff.

:D

[greatauntoftriplets]

18. Since the thread I posted so innocently this morning....

as a sort of matcom news item just got locked, you had better be wearing your heavy-duty flamesuit.

[GOPisEvil]

14. Pfft...uly survived the Nader wars...

He can handle this.


Oh shit. I said "the N-word". :hide:

[ulysses]

16. eeeeeeeviiiiiiiiil!

:D

[buddhamama]

22. take cover

:nuke:

[ulysses]

24. send a pm to enki

We'll have a "Nader eats foie gras" party. :D

[buddhamama]

25. we'll need the Steely-eyed Chilean

for this gathering.

[ulysses]

26. he's gotta be around somewhere.

Last time I checked, his site was still up, although in a deteriorating state.

[greatauntoftriplets]

28. Just checked....

Barely a hint of a pulse.

[KamaAina]

19. It must have taken a lot of courage to discover that frog legs are edible

-source unknown.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

20. It had to take someone with a sick mind to discover it.

Whomever s/he was, I'm glad I never met him/her.

[China_cat]

23. You're making one mistake there.

foie gras is only 'fat liver'. It can be made from any of the milder livers, including pork. Goose liver is normally fatty and goose fat is considered culinary gold so I imagine the first goose liver pate bathed in goose fat was so good that the idea of producing more of its own fat instead of having to steal it from the cooking of the rest of the goose, that the idea was born to fatten it up by whatever means necessary

[Floogeldy]

30. Leave the sweet little birdies alone!

:cry:

[pitohui]

31. who knows, maybe it was the goose's idea?

it said that goose was the first domesticated animal, even before the dog, the goose is self-domesticating, it sees a cushy situation and it moves right in and announces that it is now the official family pet, yard animal, and golf course ornament -- see under canada goose -- yes, the wolf/dog was probably self-domesticating as well, so we'll never know for sure which was first, but i give the nod to the goose because i just see how quickly a formerly wild goose can change its mind and become feral/domesticated

feral geese will pig down until they are literally too fat to fly and can't migrate

i strongly suspect that, back in medieval days or whenever, some exceptionally obese geese that terrorized the village pigging down all the best treats finally passed on -- and that's when the villagers first noticed the wonderful wonderful effect all that obesity had on that wonderful fatty liver

oh yes!

(yes, i used to own a goose, no, i didn't eat him but i learned a tiny bit of goose psychology)

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pitohui]

34. i'm not blaming the geese, i am admiring the geese

we hear over and over again how intelligent the wolf was to domesticate himself and put himself in the care of the powerful human to insure his survival in the form of the domestic dog

all we hear of the geese, who did the same, only w.out the fanfare, is how much shit he leaves on the golf course

how many geese have you raised?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

43. If you admired the goose so much, then perhaps you would care

about the cruelty involved in the production of foie gras.

Here's an article on it. Hopefully, you don't think the goose enjoys this life.

The Grief Behind Foie Gras

Duck and Goose Liver Pate
France produces most of the world's annual 10,000 tons of foie gras--the livers of ducks and geese grotesquely enlarged by cruel force-feeding. But inhumane force-feeding goes on in U.S. factory farms, too--in New York and California.(1)

Cruelty Most Fowl
In 1991, PETA investigated foie gras production at Commonwealth Enterprises located in the Catskills of New York. Despite Commonwealth's many prior claims that it made foie gras without force-feeding the ducks, PETA's investigators observed and documented the following:

Three times a day, workers entered small duck pens in a factory-farm building. The ducks, knowing what was coming, struggled to get as far away from the men as possible.
The workers grabbed the ducks one at a time, held them down, forced open their bills, and shoved a long metal pipe down their throats all the way to their stomachs.
They then squeezed a lever attached to the pipe, and an air-driven pump forced a third of the day's six-to-seven pounds of corn mixture into each duck's stomach.
Each worker was expected to force-feed 500 birds three times a day. So many ducks died when their stomachs burst from overfeeding that workers who killed fewer than 50 of "their" 500 received bonuses.
After four weeks of force-feeding, the ducks were slaughtered, their livers six to twelve times normal size (2,3)--pale, blotchy melon-sized messes instead of small, firm, healthy organs.
A worker told one of PETA's investigators that he could feel tumor-like lumps, caused by force-feeding, in some ducks' throats. One duck had a maggot-covered neck wound so severe that water spilled out of it when he drank. Workers routinely carried ducks by their necks, causing them to choke and defecate in distress.

Foie gras is sold as a "delicacy" which, until Commonwealth was established, was not obtainable "fresh" in the U.S.--only as processed p?t? de foie gras--because of import restrictions.

Only male ducks are used for foie gras--they produce larger livers and are considered better able to withstand the four weeks of torture. Female hatchlings are treated as trash--literally. Commonwealth workers were observed stuffing a nylon feed sack with female ducklings, tying the bag at the top, and dropping it into a trash can filled with scalding water. Workers killed the surviving ones by smashing their heads against the trash can.

Cruelty Charges Against Commonwealth
Based on PETA investigators' evidence, eyewitness accounts, and veterinarians' statements, New York state police raided Commonwealth in April 1992. The company was charged with cruelty to animals. Sadly, the district attorney later gave in to pressure by agriculture groups, withdrew the criminal charges, and persuaded a judge to seal the case file so the proceedings which led to the dismissal would remain secret.

What the Experts Say
Veterinarians who viewed PETA investigators' video footage and read their log notes said such force-feeding would damage the pharynx and esophagus so severely that ducks would not be able to eat on their own after a short period; there is a high chance of infection from using the same pipe on so many ducks without cleanings; and food is likely to enter the lungs, causing pneumonia.

One veterinarian who accompanied police on their raid of Commonwealth Enterprises said, "All of the ducks exhibited signs of illness. Many of those ducks were unable to walk or stand. exhibited ... bill deformities."(4)

Another stated, " can injure the mouth and esophagus. ... The birds appear to be ill; their eyes are dull and their feathers unkempt."(5) A third veterinarian who accompanied police noted that "none was attempting to preen. Only severely stressed or ill ducks allow their plumage to deteriorate to the degree seen in this videotape."(6)

A New York state wildlife pathologist who examined ducks from Commonwealth said, "If this kind of thing was happening to dogs, it would be stopped immediately."(7) He expressed horror at their "greatly enlarged livers, the product of overfeeding by force (livers are easily torn by even minor trauma)," and at one duck's "laceration of the liver with hemorrhage into the body cavity. This type of treatment and farming of waterfowl is outside the acceptable norms of agriculture and sane treatment of animals."(8)

Many New York veterinarians signed a statement that foie gras production should be outlawed because foie gras is nothing but the serious liver disease hepatic lipidosis: "Animals in this condition would feel extremely ill .... Foie gras production, by definition, constitutes clear-cut animal cruelty."

Nobel Prize-winning goose expert Konrad Lorenz was asked to read to the European Parliament a report promoting the foie gras industry. Lorenz refused, saying he felt "hot with anger" as he read the report. "My viewpoint towards the 'expert opinion' which further permits forcible fattening of geese ... can be expressed briefly: The 'expert opinion' is a shame for the whole of Europe."(9)

(continued at link)
References
1. Collum, Joe, WOR News I-Team report, WOR, New York, April 2, 1992.
2. Brawley, Peggy, "Quack Team of New York Farmers Helps Foie Gras Fly on U.S. Menus," People, Dec. 16, 1985.
3. Carson, L. Pierce, "Ducking the Issue," Napa Register, March 18, 1992.
4. Hodge, Tatty M., M.S., D.V.M., signed statement, Nov. 18, 1991.
5. Dunayer, Eric, V.M.D., signed statement, Nov. 7, 1991.
6. Thacher, Wendy, D.V.M., signed statement, Nov. 19, 1991.
7. Stone, Ward B., letter to David Cantor, PETA, May 6, 1992.
8. Stone, Ward B., letter to Dr. Eric Hartelius, Director, Sullivan County Animal Control, Nov. 13, 1991.
9. Lorenz, Konrad, translation of letter to Dr. Dieter Backhaus, editor of Grzimeks Tier/Sielmanns Tierwelt, Sept. 1, 1983 (obtained from Compassion in World Farming, Petersfield, England).

[pitohui]

45. not interested in PETA propaganda, sorry EOM

.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

46. That's why I included the article references.

Sorry you continue to be so close-minded. It's a shame.

[pitohui]

49. did you know that eating disorders kill? that they kill human beings?

i make a point of avoiding literature that will threaten my life by making me unable to eat

it is very easy to start reading propaganda and find yourself unable to keep down any food, been there, done that, got the t-shirt

PETA is killing us w. food hysteria, this whole society is killing us by its irrational denial of some basic facts -- including that people need to eat and that something has to die before you can eat

the deaths of actual human beings caused by eating disorders and food hysteria is an issue close to my heart and always will be

this is not something i'm going to be talked out of and it is why i continue to challenge posts that seem aimed at exploiting women's natural compassion to put them off their food

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

50. Yes, I am aware that eating disorders kill.

I've had friends hospitalized with anorexia. That has nothing to do with foie gras. Humans can live quite nicely and healthily by giving up foie gras and *gasp* even all meats. Eating a reduced-cruelty or cruelty free diet has absolutely nothing to do with eating disorders. Trust me, this post was not "aimed at exploiting women's natural compassion to put them off their food" and it takes a pretty paranoid mind to even think that.

[flvegan]

52. I challenge your post.

There, I said it. Every time something like this comes up, there's your same old crap.

Nothing has to die before you can eat. I defy you to prove up what you've stated beyond your personal experience with your husband. If you're going to front solely on what your personal experience via your husband has been, then I debunk same upon my personal experience.

PETA isn't killing anyone with any food hysteria. That's an irresponsible statement with no backing nor factual footnote.

Have at it. Long time coming. Nutrition is key, food hysteria is self-created.

Gauntlet thrown.

[Blue-Jay]

59. "nothing" or "no animals"?

Please try to be more precise, so that there are no misunderstandings.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

60. I think it's clear that he means no animals. nt

[Blue-Jay]

61. If it was clear I wouldn't have asked for a clarification.

But thanks anyhow.

[flvegan]

65. "something" v. "nothing"

I tried to keep it in context. Seems pretty precise. Sorry if you missed it.

I do, however, soundly expect that someone will drag out the tired, bullshit old argument that "something" dies no matter what is eaten. It's laughable almost as much as it is predictable.

[Blue-Jay]

66. I'm glad you got a laugh.

You're a jolly fellow.

[flvegan]

68. And you

have nothing to add.

So?

[Katina]

33. mankind has been omnivorous for how long?

pretty much since we started walking upright. If it we could scavage, we did. If we could catch it, we ate it...all of it..including cracking the bones and sucking out the marrow. That's why we have wisdom teeth, they were needed to crack bones. So mankind has been eating goose & duck liver for as long as they were able to catch them...and then they domesticated them, and it continued.
Sorry, but I think this whole self-rightous indignation over eating it is akin to the fundies telling me that because I don't follow their Jesus, that I am doomed to everlasting hell. It's bullshit.

[pitohui]

35. i agree w. your main point but a technical quibble

i would be surprised if the liver of a wild duck or goose hunted by humans would be foie gras, you have to induce a sort of fatty liver condition by putting the goose in a situation where it is over-fed

i suspect the first accidental discovery of a goose w. sufficiently fat liver would have to be a feral or domestic goose, perhaps for genetic reasons one that was inclined to over-eat on its own, w.out being force fed

wild duck i've eaten has been very, very, very lean and i suspect all duck from days when we were only just starting to walk upright would have been too lean to qualify for foie gras status

just speculation on my part of course

[Katina]

37. the point I was making

is that early man ate everything on the animal they caught & killed, from the meat to the organs. Once they were able to domesticate the birds, do you think they stopped eating the organs? No. The livers have fat...even when the birds haven't been force fed. To survive the winters, man needed fat..and the liver of the birds supplied it. That's why they hunted in the fall, to get the fatted animals to supply them with enough fat to survive the winters.
I know we no longer need this kind of food to survive, but damn it, I love the taste of it and I really resent the intrusion on my once a year indulgence.
hmmmm, maybe tomatoes scream when you slice them. Is there any proof they don't? :sarcasm:

[pitohui]

39. correct and i agree w. the point you were making EOM

.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

36. The main problem with foie gras is the extremely cruel way

in which they are overfed to produce the fatty liver. It's not bullshit, unless you believe in supporting animal cruelty, which I hope you don't. BTW, I'm not even a vegetarian and I support a foie gras ban.

[Katina]

40. production of all meat, fish & poultry is cruel

and you know what, that's life. I'm not demanding that they ban smoking which kills not only the smoker, but anyone around them....including their pets. Death by cancer FAR EXCEEDS any cruelty on animal food production. Sorry, I know it's brutal, but I can live with it. MY CHOICE. You don't want to eat it? Fine, so be it. But leave those of us who enjoy it alone.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

54. Choose Cruelty.

Nice new t-shirt idea. I guess you could be signed up for one, yes?

[bicentennial_baby]

56. Um, what the fuck?

"Death by cancer FAR EXCEEDS any cruelty on animal food production"

BULLSHIT...pure and simple...No way...You yourself have admitted that ALL production of animal food sources is cruel...There's a lot more of them than there are us...C'mon... :eyes:

[Shakespeare]

51. Have you ever been present when ducks were tube-fed?

I have been (small farm that has since closed up in Sonoma county). The ducks didn't run away from the workers when feeding time rolled around; quite the contrary, they stampeded to see who could get to the tubes first. Tube feeding in itself is not at ALL cruel (hell, it's essentially how baby birds are fed). The ducks I witnessed with my own eyes LOVED being fed.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

53. No, I haven't been present (but I have raised baby birds)...

However, regardless of whether the ducks liked being tube fed, feeding a goose up to four pounds a day to engorge the liver (also known as the disease hepatic lipidosis) and causing numerous resulting health problems is animal cruelty.

Also, tube feeding is still dangerous for the bird, if the tube is pushed too far or if the bird moves the wrong way, it can result in serious internal injuries. That is why most responsible bird breeders now use the syringe method, which is what I used while hand-feeding. Not only are you less likely to injure the bird, but the birds wean better, because they know how to eat properly (which tube fed babies don't).

I'll base my opinion on medical facts, not whether the duck seemed to like it.

[Shakespeare]

58. I want to be very careful how I phrase this...

...because I always enjoy your posts, and I don't want things to become totally un-civil. The medical facts you claim do not have anything whatsoever to do with cruelty. Cruelty implies some sort of intentional infliction of pain or distress, and that is not what the farmers do to these ducks. Is it unhealthy, on a long-term basis, for an animal to have its liver fattened up so much? Yes--however, the ducks are slaughtered long before this would ever become an issue. Ducks are not dropping dead from strokes, cardiac arrest or other complications from this kind of feeding. They're not alive long enough for that to happen. If you want to suggest that the very idea of slaughtering animals for food constitutes cruelty, well, that's a whole other argument, and one I disagree with. There is a respectful way to raise animals for food; if you find the idea of doing so distasteful for personal reasons, fine--don't eat meat. But don't even try to suggest that those of us who do eat meat (and who try to choose their food based on humane farming practices) are cruel or bad people or morally flawed in any way.

The workers I've observed are not cruel or sadistic; they're blue-collar workers who want to do their job and who, generally speaking, care to some degree about the animals they feed. The article you originally posted was rather hyperbolic and painted the ducks as horribly abused animals who cowered in fear from the farmers. I'm telling you I witnessed (both in person and on video) the exact opposite of that. You then try to counter that the health problems constitute cruelty. I disagree, and I've explained why.

I also dispute that birds are routinely injured by tube feeding (and I, too, have fed baby birds--I'm also well acquainted with how and why caution should be used during feeding)--those workers are trained how to feed the ducks this way, and believe me, the farmers are not interested in losing any measurable percentage of their flock to premature death due to incorrect feeding. It's financially bad for them, and they take steps to make sure it doesn't happen.

The "medical facts" you cite are either irrelevant (the birds are slaughtered before they suffer complications of a fatty liver) or inaccurate (do not constitute any definition of "cruelty"). Yours is a personal choice, and I respect that--I do not, however, respect the attempts at condemnation for others who choose to consume meat. Or pate, for that matter.

[flvegan]

67. To be honest, you should really read up on this more

before you post again. Your entire first paragraph is, well, false. Wrong. Bullshit.

Workers that you've observed? How so? How are you so involved in this?

[Shakespeare]

70. No, my entire first paragraph is not, well, false.

And yes, workers that I've observed. An acquaintance worked at a farm that raised ducks for foie gras, and I visited (and observed) on more than one occasion. I'm not "so involved," I'm simply better informed through direct personal experience than most of the people posting in this thread.

[Karenca]

73. The Pain And Sufferng Of Foie Gras-"Delicacy of Despair"

<<Foie gras, French for "fatty liver," is made from the grotesquely enlarged livers of male ducks and geese. The birds are kept in tiny wire cages or packed into sheds. Pipes are repeatedly shoved down the birds' throats, and up to 4 pounds of grain and fat are pumped into their stomachs two or three times every day. The pipes puncture many birds' throats, sometimes causing the animals to bleed to death. This cruel procedure causes the birds' livers to become diseased and swell to up to 10 times their normal size. Many birds become too sick to stand up. The birds who survive the force-feeding are killed, and their livers are sold for foie gras. Learn more about investigations of foie gras factory farms.

People around the world have spoken out against the cruelty of foie gras. In 2004, California passed a law banning the sale and production of foie gras effective in 2012, and Chicago banned the sale of this cruel product in 2006. His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI denounced force-feeding as being in violation of Biblical principles, and foie gras production has been outlawed in the U.K., Germany, the Czech Republic, Finland, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, and Israel.>>

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:iwnusEEd9MEJ:www.goveg.com/feat/foie/+foie+gras&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

[Scooter24]

38. foie gras is simply delicious...

Not sure who discovered it, but it's something I very much enjoy :)

[Floogeldy]

42. Do you understand the cruelty and suffering involved in the process?

:shrug:

[flvegan]

55. Sometimes not caring trumps understanding.

It's sad, but it's true.

[Floogeldy]

57. Yes. I guess so.

:(

[bridgit]

41. pft, you got it...

:thumbsup:

[Dukkha]

47. I wonder that too about maple syrup

someone said "Hey, look at that sticky goo oozing out of that tree. Let's eat it."

[ulysses]

48. LOL

You see my point. :D

[sarge43]

71. Actually the sap does taste sweet right out the tree, but it's thin

and watery. Kids being what they are probably tried it first. The smart move was figuring that it's even better boiled down and thicken.

[Duer 157099]

63. Check out this human corollary

I saw a documentary on Discovery channel recently, about some tribe in Africa (Uganda?), where they like their women FAT, because they take that as a sign of health. Well, when a girl gets engaged (or rather, when her parents sell her to her husband's family -- let's be honest), she has to spend a few months sequestered in a "fattening hut" where she is forced to eat nothing but gallons and gallons of cow's milk, and butter, every day. For months. Until she's fat.

Sounds sort of similar, except I don't think anyone is going to eat her liver (except perhaps Dr. Hannibal Lecter, with some fava beans and a nice chianti?)

[Benfea]

64. How hungry do you have to be?

Look through your world history, then look at the non-industrialized world as it is right now. The majority of humans are pretty damned hunger the majority of the time.

Of course I'm of the opinion that civilizations that go through alternating periods of prosperity and poverty (e.g. Italy) produce far more interesting cuisines. To take a recent example, if it weren't for the hardships of World War II, the Italians would never have experimented with making flour from nuts.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

69. Not very hungry apparently.

Hungry people definitely wouldn't waste 3-4lbs of grain a day shoving it down the throat of a goose to engorge it's liver for later consumption.

However, your theory on alternating periods of poverty & prosperity producing more interesting cuisine, is quite interesting and does make sense to me.

[xchrom]

72. oooh! i love foie gras -- and pate.

the most memorable meal i've ever eaten was foie gras -- heaven.

[Avalux]

74. Locking.

For consistency. Amazing what can become flame bait around here, lol.