One questrion regarding your thoughs about the recent grave robber boys

[Rockstone]

Did anyone feel a little bit sorry for them at all?

I know it was a horrible thing they were involved in, but did anyone think that this was a big mistake in judgement. Like I could imagine the scared younger brother - the one who confessed - getting sort of railroaded along with the other two.

Something about their mug shots said "Oh my god, I've made a horrible mistake". One also wonder if alcohol or other drugs were involved. It seemed like this was a lapse of judgement that is going to follow them the rest of their lives.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. I've drunk a lot of alcohol and I've done a lot of drugs and never once

have I thought..."gee, let's go dig up that corpse and fuck it."

It takes a twisted person to come up with that idea, regardless of whether or not they were under the influence.

So no, I don't feel a bit sorry for them. I feel sorry for the girl dying in an accident like that, for her family, and for the family of those twisted boys. Not the least bit sorry for the boys though.

[Ariana Celeste]

2. Yeah.

It takes crazy to do something like that, not drug use.

[Rockstone]

5. The only detail I can note

is that there was that vampire fad that fed this whole identity niche for the emo goth whatever crowd. I think kids try to impress each other with their "heaviness" in this make-believe world of occult. The weak ones just follow their peers and the strong ones.

I think murder would have been a worse crime and there are plenty of teens who have made that mistake - it's like kids play a game of chicken to be craziest one and therefore have the baddest rep.

[Ariana Celeste]

8. I was a goth in high school

All of my goth friends and I were into vampire stuff, and a couple of us were into the occult (a couple of us considered ourselves Satanists back then too). But not a single one of us were that sick, and we didn't joke about shit like that either- it's disgusting and sick. The worst peer pressure that went on in our group was drug related.

Wanting to have sex with dead people has absolutely nothing to do with goth culture or the occult.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

9. Having known a bunch of goths and emo kids...

"necrophilia" would definitely get them the baddest rep, but not in any sort of way even someone into "that vampire fad" would want or respect.

Those adults were just fucked up. It had nothing to do with trying to "impress each other with their 'heaviness'in this make-believe world of occult."

Also, these adults did not look like they were in the emo or goth crowd.

[Rockstone]

18. maybe they were out drinking at the adults bar then?

oh yeah, that's right, 20 year olds aren't allowed.

I wonder why not?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

19. They're adults at 20, whether or not they can drink.

They can die in a war and vote at 18. They're adults.

Do you have any real point to your argument or did you just come here to start shit?

[Rockstone]

27. No they are not adults

check the dictionary. It is not defined by being 18 or or dying in a war. It is defined as being fully mature. They don't look mature and they certainly don't act it.

No, I did not come to the lounge to "start shit" as you have accused. How about we try to stick to the forum rules and lay off the personal attacks.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

32. If you're using the definition of acting fully mature...

then you'll find people in their 50s who are not adults. Legally, these guys are adults.

[Rockstone]

44. Yah I guess so

in the legal context of "tried as an adult", certainly.

[LeftyMom]

20. I hearby swear by my collection of out of print V:TM stuff

Nobody I know has ever tried to fuck the dead.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

22. Not even any of the 20 year old children you know after a few beers?

Wow, I guess none of them were really "heavy."

[LeftyMom]

23. Well I wouldn't put it past my ex

Nah, I take it back. He's a vile little freak but even he prefers 'em warm.

[Irreverend IX]

57. You're barking up the wrong tree.

It's not a goth thing; we should try and figure out if those kids are related to Michael Weiner, er, Savage. That guy is big into sex with the dead.

[blondeatlast]

30. Yes. I'm with you--these kids were already twisted.

That kind of twisted thinking is locked in the subconscious, and I don't see it as a stretch that that kind of thinking could emerge under the influence--IF IT WAS ALREADY THERE.

The chemical alteration just worked as the fuel.

Most people, even heavily under the influence, would not have gone anywhere near that depravity.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

35. Exactly, and at least in the articles I read on the matter...

they were not under the influence. That possibility was added by the OP.

[Rockstone]

47. The actual intent of the suggestion of drugs or alcohol

was more along the lines of why the other two may have been dragged into the scheme, although I didn't express it in the orignial post.

The way I read the photos, the emo haircut kid was the #1 perp. The bearded guy was #2 but probably weaker than #1. #3 the confessor looked like he got dragged into it my his jackass brother.

Note that #3 confessed everything to to the police, including the condom purchase which he certainly didn't have to mention at all. There was no necrophilia intent known without this kid talking. It suggested the possibility that he was so pissed that his brother got him into this mess that perhaps he blabbed it all to get back at his brother.

Other possibilities are that he was terrified by the plot and terrified that they got caught and just broke down and told all or that the cops psychologically worked him over.

[mduffy31]

58. Hell I worked in a funeral home

been drunk, and had easy access to a corpse and wouldn't fuck it for any reason.

[Ariana Celeste]

3. I feel sorry for the boys' mothers.

How the hell do you cope with the fact your kids are known for being necrophiliacs? I wonder if they feel like some how it was their fault, that they were bad moms, that they did something wrong? They will probably need a lot of therapy.

[Rockstone]

4. I think only the one guy was going to do the necrophiling.

The younger brother said it was his older brother's idea and plan. Looks like he was the leader and enlisted the other two. There was never any statement that the others wanted to do it as well.

[Ariana Celeste]

6. Doesn't really matter

Whether all three or just the one wanted to fuck a dead girl makes no difference- all three were involved and all three will be remembered for it- 10, 20, 30+ years down the road, people in that town aren't going to think of only one of the boys as a necrophiliac, even if he bullied the other two or whatever happened- they will think of all three of 'em that way- and that's just the sad truth.

[Rockstone]

16. "Sad truth"?

the fact that this will follow them for the rest of their lives is a "sad truth"?
so you are pitying them?

[Ariana Celeste]

55. No, absolutely not.

But then again I've had to deal with the death of several family members throughout my relatively short life (21 yrs.) and so the thought of someone defiling a grave like that sickens me beyond the possibility of feeling any pity for twisted people like that.

[Floogeldy]

7. I have no idea what you are talking about.

However, I do not consider "grave robbing" a mistake.

Stupid fucking assholes need to be thrown in prison.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

10. What you don't consider grave robbing to have sex with the corpse a

simple mistake? Just the sort of trouble typical boys get into?

:sarcasm:

[Rockstone]

11. You're right!

I guess beating a hobo to death would have been the right thing to do instead.
:sarcasm:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

12. Either way, it's indictative of someone who is very twisted.

Not someone I'd feel sorry for.

[amitten]

13. Um...how about...NEITHER?

Criminals are criminals. Just because crime A might be worse than crime B doesn't mean that crime B is just peachy and no big deal.

They are sane adults, they knew it is illegal, and they did it anyway. Why the pity?

[Ariana Celeste]

14. Lol. No shit.

:thumbsup:

[Rockstone]

15. Right

who said it was peachy and no big deal? Not me. Where did you get that idea? From another poster's strawman?

What I said was that teens are known for doing stupid things and the baddies often manage to drag others down with them.

Am I not allowed to pity someone who has ruined his life?

[Ariana Celeste]

17. I do believe that was your strawman

:hi:

[Rockstone]

25. Well I don't believe, I know.

And I know that characterization of "peachy" was made by another poster, not me, as anyone can plainly see.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

26. Please show me where the "characterization of 'peachy'" was made

anywhere on this thread. Also, in case you need a refresher course on strawman arguments, here you go:

From Wikipedia:

Setup of a straw-man

One can set up a straw man in the following ways:

1. Present a misrepresentation of the opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.
2. Present someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute that person's arguments, and pretend that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated.
3. Invent a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, and pretend that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

Some logic textbooks define the straw man fallacy only as a misrepresented argument. It is now common, however, to use the term to refer to all of these tactics. The straw-man technique is also used as a form of media manipulation.

However, carefully presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent's argument is not always itself a fallacy. Instead, it restricts the scope of the opponent's argument, either to where the argument is no longer relevant or as a step of a proof by exhaustion.


Examples

An example of such an argument could be:

Person A: I don't think children should run into the busy streets.
Person B: I think that it would be foolish to lock up children all day with no fresh air.

By insinuating that Person A's argument is far more draconian than it is, Person B has side-stepped the issue.

[Rockstone]

29. Post #13

[Radio_Lady]

21. I did not feel sorry for them. However, that doesn't mean that I

gave them a pass on this deed. I don't know the backstory -- but I surmise that all of them need a great deal of psychological help.

[RetroLounge]

24. I once fucked the dead

well, turned out it was just my first wife. She just seemed dead in bed...

:rofl:

RL

[bullwinkle428]

33. I have an ex-gf that just used to lay there, minimal movement

or noise...does that count as a kind of necrophilia?

(extends arm for "knuckle-bump" with RetroLounge!)

[Radio_Lady]

60. LOL! OK. Now, let's give HER a chance to respond, RetroLounge.

http://www.bible.ca/marriage/sex-on-demand.htm

[RetroLounge]

61. First thing in the bible that ever made sense.

"The husband must fulfill his (sexual) duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another (of sex)." 1 Corinthians 7:3-5

:rofl:

RL

[swag]

28. I find their actions less disturbing than those of my

first cousin once removed, whose victim was (and is) living.

[Rockstone]

34. Wow another one!

I don't remember any stories of teens doing this when I was a kid. Seems like a newer trend.

[swag]

36. From the Wikipedia entry on "Necrophelia,"

Herodotus writes in The Histories that, to discourage intercourse with a corpse, Ancient Egyptians left deceased beautiful women to decay for "three or four days" before giving them to the embalmers.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

37. It's not a trend. New or otherwise.

Before the age of the internet, it is highly unlikely people across the country would hear of a crime like this, especially if the perpetrator was not caught being a serial necrophiliac or if it didn't happen in a major city.

[Rockstone]

40. I was wondering if the ease of access to necrophilia ideas

via the internet was a contributing factor.

Not to suggest to blame the internet, but it's an angle to wonder about.

Take Columbine for example - did RPG shootem up games have any influence in the perps there?

I wonder if you looked at the graver robber's computers if they had viewed any necrophilia web pages?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

41. Before we had the internet, there were books.

I doubt the internet had anything to do with it, just like I believe that RPGs had nothing to do with the Columbine incident. Millions of kids play violent video games. How many of them shoot up their schools?

[Rockstone]

43. well two did

and more have tried.

Never heard of that happening when I was a kid and they just had books and BB guns.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

46. Strawman.

I'm not going to debate RPGs and violence with you. That's not what this thread is about.

[Rockstone]

48. Oh, Ok

what was the thread restricted to then? go ahead and ask the original poster.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

49. I don't feel like playing your games. Sorry.

Enjoy however long your stay on DU is.

[Rockstone]

50. Are you going to ban me for arguing with you?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

51. No. I, personally, have no power to ban you. Good night.

[Rockstone]

52. So someone else is going to ban me because I don't agree with you?

[u4ic]

31. A lapse of judgment

is driving through a light that just turned red, when you really should have stopped.

Digging up a dead body to fuck isn't. There had to be some degree of planning involved, as they had seen the obit picture of the dead woman beforehand. They brought condoms with them to the cemetary, for fuck's sake.

Think of what their actions would do to the grieving family, as well. They didn't.

Sorry, don't agree with you there at all, pal.

[Rockstone]

38. Right

a "lapse" is driving through a red light

a "big mistake" in judgement, which is how I characterized their actions in the original post, is ruining you life and your family's life in just a few hours.

[u4ic]

45. A big mistake in judgment

is after running that red, you get into an accident. Running that red becomes a big mistake in judgment.

Digging up a dead body to fuck with is sick, not a mistake in judgment.

Do I feel bad for their families? Yes, absolutely. Do I feel bad for the victim's family? Even more so. Their daughter/sibling died much too young, and tragically, then had some sick fucks try to have sex with her after she was buried.

:puke:

[Rockstone]

53. It was a big mistake in judgement

The question Grunke had to face was "what are the consequences of my indended actions?" The mistake was that he didn't think there would be any consequences.

It was also sick. That does not preclude it from being a big mistake in judgement.

[u4ic]

59. They showed a *lack* of judgment

He didn't think there would be any consequences? Good grief! Not only on their part, but yours. :eyes:

[blondeatlast]

39. You made the "alcohol/drug" strawman argument.

So I'll pursue it.

Getting so messed up on mind-altering substances that one would feel compelled to do such a hideously depraved act removes any chance for my pity whatsoever.

That takes prodigious amounts of controlled substances. The bad choice began with the consumption. That's where my pity ends.

And, I repeat--that's YOUR strawman argument.

[Rockstone]

42. In consideration of Post #26

which definition of strawman are you attributing to me?

1. Present a misrepresentation of the opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.
2. Present someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute that person's arguments, and pretend that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated.
3. Invent a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, and pretend that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

[Ariana Celeste]

54. Yes the definition shows clearly that it was your strawman

Good luck with your future posting. :hi:

[REP]

56. None

Drunk, stupid and fucking corpses is no way to go through life.