Mid-size, liberal-ish western town/city? Any suggestions?

[Flaxbee]

I say "liberalish" because I can cope with conservatives, just not with a large concentration of fundies and/or neocons... Liberal cities/towns seem to have more and better cultural offerings, from dance to music to movie selection; I don't need everything avant-garde, just more of a selection than Baptist vs. Pentecostal events (which are my only choices where I live now).

I grew up in southern California, and just don't think I can go back -- too crowded. I've been in the southeast for 7 years now, and want to go back to the way the western part of this country feels - bigger, open spaces, drier air - I don't really know how to explain it but perhaps those who have lived in the west understand.

Anyone know of any hidden gems? Could be small, 10,000+ or under 500,000. I've lived in LA, NYC, DC and Atlanta, and don't want that anymore. I've lived in towns with 2000, and that's too small. I'd prefer not to freeze my ass off every winter (I have a great friend in Bozeman but just don't think I can deal with that level of cold) but every other climate is on the table.

An aside - I drove all over NC and Virginia this weekend, and the level of strip-mall-ization is depressing as hell.

[XemaSab]

1. Eugene seems cool

:shrug:

[Ptah]

2. Before the parenthetical in your third paragraph,

I was going to suggest Missoula.

:shrug:

[leftofthedial]

3. Tucson AZ

Durango CO

[begin_within]

4. Portland, Oregon. (Unless you're a sun-worshipper.)

I lived there from 1980 to 1982 and it is a great place, but you don't see the sun much. You see clouds and light rain, more like a constant mist, much of the time. There are sunny days, but there are a lot of gray skies. If that is "your kind of weather" then you will be happy there. Lush, green landscape and a liberal town.

[barb162]

20. I like it there a lot. Also Seattle

[LeftyMom]

5. Pretty much any nor cal coastal town would do.

Other than that, parts of Oregon are nice. I hear great things about Portland, but I'm not going up there for a few weeks yet so I can't say myself.

[Flaxbee]

17. would love to hear about Portland when you get back...

I considered it before I left LA, but went to NYC instead just to give the east coast a try... Seattle seems just too big and crowded, but I have heard good things about Portland, though I think it's bigger than what I'm looking for. Curious, though.

[Zomby Woof]

6. Flagstaff, AZ

Population - 60,000

Elevation - 7,000 feet

Politics - 55% voted for Kerry in 2004, mostly owing to the city's college population (Northern Arizona University is located there), and the large population of Navajo and Hopis whom traditionally vote Democratic. The Republicans are largely the libertarian types, cowboy wannabes and the like. They're idiots, and some are fundies or chickenhawks, but largely just loudmouth cowboys. It's definitely a mixed town politically, but for a small-to-medium sized western city, that's a pretty good ratio.

Culture - NAU has the usual theater and music offerings, and the cafes and bars attract musicians from near and far. The city itself has a symphony orchestra, and a community theater. Downtown is Flagstaff's greatest virtue - it preserves the original character of the early 20th century boom when the railroads in the region came into their own. No skyscrapers. Because of the Lowell Observatory nearby (where Pluto was discovered), it is the world's first "Dark Sky City", so light pollution is kept to a minimum.

Yes, there are chains, and even a mall - mostly hugging the old Route 66 before and after its downtown intersection - but those can't be avoided anywhere unfortunately.

Other pluses:

80 miles from the south rim of the Grand Canyon.

In the midst of the world's largest ponderosa pine forest.

The San Francisco Peaks provide the real city skyline. Humphrey's Peak is over 12,000 feet at its summit.

Because of the altitude, it rarely goes above the mid-80's in the summer during the day. You can estimate the temps by subtracting 20-30 degrees from whatever it is in Phoenix. It's a dry climate, other than the monsoon season from July through September, which brings powerful thunderstorms and torrential rains.

Minuses:

Relatively high cost of living compared to the average salaries.

Because of the altitude, very cold winters. Mostly dry, so when it snows, it evaporates quickly, but causes hazardous driving conditions at times.

Limited job opportunities, although some very good jobs in education, science (W.L. Gore, the creators of Gore-Tex, have their biggest facility there), and travel and hospitality exist, as well as a few manufacturing jobs too. Artists and craftspeople are fairly represented.


I lived there from July 2003 through July 2005, during an important transition period of my life, after the recession in Seattle took its toll, and it was good to me. I left because something better awaited me back home in California, not because of a reaction to Flagstaff. I am glad I gave it a chance. :-)

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Flaxbee]

14. hey Zomby -

My sister and brother in law lived in Flagstaff for 15+ years and I visited many times - the drive from soCal to Flag is one of those things I remember and miss, having traveled along that part of 40 during my early teen years; that geography is imprinted on my brain.

One of the times I was there I finagled my way into a tour of Rodin Crater - didn't meet James Turrell, but a German filmmaker was in Flagstaff to do a story on the Crater and Turrell's art and I got to tag along.

They left b/c teacher salaries had stagnated and went to Boise, which is also a neat place - has grown a lot in the last 10-15 years and is much more sophisticated than it used to be.

I'm glad you're happy in SoCal... I do miss it terribly myself, but it's hard to go home again; I remember it when there were orange groves all over Redlands, Corona, Rialto and now those areas are all tract homes, and San Juan Capistrano was a small town. :(

[Zomby Woof]

18. Oops!

Had I known you were that well-acquainted with Flagstaff, I would have spared you the almanac, lol.

Southern California's most glaring flaw is the cost of living and real estate. Last year, I went down to San Diego to look at the first house I lived in, and what was once an affordable rental for a young lower-middle-class family is now a $600,000 block of concrete and stucco. The neighborhood is at least still livable, but still... it's all too typical. :-(

I love it here, but when our working life is over, we may yet have to look for a scaled-down paradise elsewhere.

[Flaxbee]

19. I know - I haven't been back since 2000, but

our homes in SJC and inland are now $500,000+

I don't mind the almanac! It's nice to see Flagstaff through someone else's eyes.

[Arugula Latte]

7. Yes -- Portland

Lots of happy libs here. I grew up in the sun (Cali.) and it took me some getting used to, but, eventually, you can adjust. That's really my only complaint. Real estate prices really took a big jump in the last ten years (like most other places), but I see a lot of houses in our neighborhood with "new price" stickers (i.e. lower price) -- that wouldn't have happened a year or two ago.

Portland is a wonderfully sized city, as well. Not too huge, but big enough to not get dull.

[Floogeldy]

9. Let's hear it for the Oregon cheerleader!!!!!!!!!

:bounce: :thumbsup: :tinfoilhat: :dilemma:

[Arugula Latte]

11. Woohoo! Thanks!

:woohoo:

Yeah -- the state tourism board oughta throw a little cash my way! :D

[Floogeldy]

12. Gawd I'd like to take a nap on your front lawn.

:blush:

[Floogeldy]

8. Condon, Montana

:)

[Samurai_Writer]

10. Boulder, Colorado

It's called the San Francisco of the Rockies. And the winters really aren't that bad. That's coming from a southerner who just moved here a year ago and survived her first winter in 30 years. It's a great liberal city, I love it here!

[Flaxbee]

15. OK, will definitely put that on my tour list...

I'm hoping my husband and I can take a tour of some western areas in early spring... will put Boulder on the route. Thanks!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Corvallis, Oregon

It's smaller and somewhat less liberal than Eugene, but I think it's the more attractive town, and best of all, it's extremely bicycle friendly and easy to get around without a car.

[Flaxbee]

16. Corvallis is now on the list, too...

I have never been to Oregon, and it sounds like I definitely need to make a visit. Thanks, LydiaL!

[petronius]

21. I'd second both Eugene and Boulder

I'm going to Humboldt this weekend - I'll let you know how it is...

[mike_c]

22. try Norcal....

Not crowded at all. Arcata is one of the most liberal towns in America, IMO. North Coast Humboldt County is a small community, but I love it here!

[blitzen]

23. Portland is a great, if not the great, liberal city...but not "midsize"

anymore...It's really a full-grown city...Highly liveable, though...

My two favorite western midsize cities both start with a "B" (not Bozeman, although I like it). Hardly "hidden gems" though, since both are growing like crazy, but so far in good ways...Bend and Boise

[LSK]

24. Missoula, Montana

Unfortunately, they just lost their AAR station.

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2006/03/01/news/local/news06.txt