I saw the Marilyn Monroe exhibit at the State Fair yesterday

[Haole Girl]

It was nice. I just wish I could have taken some photos..but they wouldn't allow it, at all, even without a flash. :(

There was a large collection of her dresses (they claim, the largest one collection). I didn't realize just how tiny she was.

I especially enjoyed one photograph...she was in a black convertible. It was great. And, the early photographs of her, before she looked drugged (like the photos where eyes were half closed) were very nice. I wish, when people talk about Marilyn, they'd talk about more than the birthday song to JFK or her dress flying up in the air. There was a lot more to her than that. And, she was extremely photogenic!

[Whoa_Nelly]

1. Thought I had read somewhere that MM was a size 12

Wonder how tall she was?

[Haole Girl]

2. OK

I did some research. This is what I found:

Vintage Sizing...was Marilyn Monroe Really a size 12?

First let me say that YOU should Love & Embrace your body, no matter What size you are! If you're not happy with your present size and you can do something about it, by all means do but don't let a number on a scale or on an item of clothing make or break your day/week/month or your life in general. Unless of course you're a supermodel and those three pints of Haagen-Dazs you had last night are going to cost you the new Armani contract you're up for...Then by all means necessary Girlfriend, get your ass to the closest gym and stay there for a few days! But for those of us that aren't super models...Love Thy Self and Thy Thighs, Butt and Boobs!

So...was Marilyn REALLY a size 12? Be sure to read both parts of this answer ( A and B ).

(A) The answer is both YES and NO. For many ladies, young and not so young, vintage clothing sizes ( and how they compare to current/contemporary sizing) present a HUGE dilemma.

DILEMMA: Jane walks into a local vintage clothing store and after much searching, finds a fabulous little 1950's Cocktail dress that looks like it's just her size. She waltzes over to the fitting room. frock in hand. Once disrobed, she proceeds to try on said dress. What looked like a simple act of tossing the dress over her slim form, now became a mild struggle. She manages to get it on but it's a bit snug around the waist and bust area. Intrigued, she wiggles out of it and takes a look at the label. To her shock and mild HORROR it's marked a size 12 ! That can't be right, she mutters under her breath. It just fits her and she KNOWS that she's a size 4.

Her mind is buzzing with unanswered questions; (a) Who the hell made this dress? (b) Did some unfeeling fool change the dress/size label? (c) Has the whole world gone Mad?

She quickly dresses and storms up to a sales person, demanding an answer and some sort of confirmation that SHE hasn't lost the fragile grip on reality she's been clinging to since college.

Naturally, they haven't a clue and after a sideways roll of the eyes and a deep sigh...they respond by saying " Look lady, if it says size 12 then that's what it IS!

QUESTION: Who's right here? Jane who knows she normally wears a size 4 or the snotty kid who mans the store and only makes $5.25 an hour and couldn't/wouldn't Begin to care unless he/she was making at least $10 ?

ANSWER: Both of them are right. Jane hasn't lost her marbles and the dress is a size 12 but there's a huge misunderstanding here. What neither Jane nor the underpaid sales person realizes is that Vintage Clothing sizes are much much smaller than today's clothing sizes. Without getting into a really long explanation of the changes made in American clothing size charts during the last 50 years, let me say this...generally speaking, vintage clothing sizes run 4-6 sizes smaller than clothing sizes today. For example, I normally wear a size 4-6 in most everything ( dress, pants, skirts) but if I'm trying on a 50's dress, I need a size 12. Likewise, if it's a dress from the 70's, I can usually fit into a size 10. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. Get over the NUMBER Chica ! Sizes back then were much smaller, period.

If you don't believe me, take a look at a dress/clothing pattern from the 1950's. As a rule, they list the dress size with bust ( and sometimes waist size) on the front. A size size 12 dress will list the bust as 31-32" and the waist as 24". Now if you look at a current clothing chart or pattern you'll see that the same "Bust/Waist" measurements will say size 4/6. if you need even more proof, get your paws on an original Sears Catalog from the 1950's ( you can find them at large book stores) and feast your eyes on their clothing size charts. Then you'll see that Mama-Milan is speaking the truth. Anyway...are you starting to get the picture?

After 20+ years of working in women's retail clothing, I can't even BEGIN to tell you how many verbal arguments I've gotten into over "What the tag says vs. what actually fits". As you probably well know, differences in sizes today can vary from designer to designer or from store brand to store brand. Cut, fabric and overall basic construction can all play a major role in "what fits and what doesn't". One size 8 in a more tailored piece may not fit properly while a size 8 in a less structured garment will. The "Gap" is famous for their generous clothing size allowances. When I'm feeling BLOATED (and Ladies we've all been there), I go into a "Gap" store and try on a pair of pants ( for example) and when I can shimmy into a size 0...well...the world doesn't seem so cruel anymore! Now I know that I don't normally WEAR a size 0 but the momentary illusion is welcomed and the deception embraced. This is just one example of how crazy the whole "Size" thing can be (and this is with contemporary clothing/dress sizes). When you add "Vintage" to the fashion mix, it can get even trickier ( as our heroine Jane demonstrated).

So when it comes to vintage clothing, my advice to you is to think "Outside the box/dress". Don't get caught up in the numbers (sizing) game. Bring a tape measure if you plan on trying on vintage, that way you can measure the garment before trying it on and thereby avoid any unnecessary therapy sessions brought on by vintage clothing vs. contemporary clothing size conundrums.

(B) So my lovely reader, Marilyn ( at one point in her life/career) probably WAS a size 12 but what 99.9% of people who mention this fail to point out, is that she was a VINTAGE size 12. Today, with the same measurements, she would probably be a size 6 (in most garments). Would we love and adore her any less if her dress size was bigger or smaller? I think NOT. She was Fabulous no matter what her size was, vintage or otherwise. Just as YOU are fabulous, what ever YOUR size is!


http://www.justsaywhen.com/Vintage-101-Sizing.htm

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Dress sizes have changed so much through the years.

Some sizes are larger than they were back then and some are smaller. I think I read somewhere that she would have been a size 4-8 with her weight changes in today's world. :hi:

[Haole Girl]

7. True. I'm telling you...

those dresses are TINY! It's something you almost have to see to believe.

[calico1]

11. I remember helping my aunt clean out a closet

years ago. She was finally getting rid of some dresses and shoes from the 1950's and 60's. (She saves everything!). There were a lot of dresses and most of them were 12's with a few 14's and 10's here and there. And they were TINY! This is why I laugh when people point out to Marilyn's size 12's or 14's. Yes, she might have worn those sizes but there was no vanity sizing in those days.

[kay1864]

5. Well, only at her heaviest...

Height: 5 feet, 5½ inches
Weight: 118-140 pounds
Bust: 35-37 inches
Waist: 22-23 inches
Hips: 35-36 inches
Bra size: 36D

More on this topic at snopes: http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. She was a beautiful woman... and a lesson on what insecurity can

do to a girl. :( I hope she has finally found peace. I have always loved Elton John's "Norma Jean" because I think he nails her more than anyone else has. :hi:

[Haole Girl]

6. I wish her earlier photographs would make it into circulation,

...so to speak. She really was beautiful. And, it was sad...what happened to her in the end (regardless of any theories, it was sad).

[skygazer]

8. She was also talented

She lit up a screen and stole every scene she ever appeared in, not just with her beauty but with her impeccable timing and delivery. She had a nice talent for comedy as well.

[Haole Girl]

9. She did have a talent for comedy as well, didn't she?

And, if anybody thinks that's easy... all they have to do is see how many sitcoms fail each year to know it isn't! :hi:

[skygazer]

10. Hey!

Aren't you supposed to be doing housework? :spank: :rofl:

[Haole Girl]

12. Yes!

Ouch...that hurt! ;)

[wildhorses]

13. GMTA and with that said:

Music by elton john
Lyrics by bernie taupin
Available on the album goodbye yellow brick road

Goodbye norma jean
Though I never knew you at all
You had the grace to hold yourself
While those around you crawled
They crawled out of the woodwork
And they whispered into your brain
They set you on the treadmill
And they made you change your name

And it seems to me you lived your life
Like a candle in the wind
Never knowing who to cling to
When the rain set in
And I would have liked to have known you
But I was just a kid
Your candle burned out long before
Your legend never did

Loneliness was tough
The toughest role you ever played
Hollywood created a superstar
And pain was the price you paid
Even when you died
Oh the press still hounded you
All the papers had to say
Was that marilyn was found in the nude

Goodbye norma jean
From the young man in the 22nd row
Who sees you as something as more than sexual
More than just our marilyn monroe