Tigers beat the Yanks!! 8-3! You can't buy a World Series, you

[Skidmore]

have to earn it. So sez my husband.

Wish we could say that about elections these days.

[boston bean]

1. Us Boston fans aren't crying over it. We're jumpin up and down for joy!nt

[liberaldemocrat7]

30. The Bush coincidence continues.

The New York Yankees won their 4 world championships while Clinton served as president.

The Yankees have not won one world championship ever since Bush took office.

Not 1.

[MissMillie]

73. I'm sure there are plenty of 6 year stretches

in the history of the World Series where the Yankees didn't win one.

[MichiganVote]

2. Goodbye Yankees, Goodbye Oakland, Hello World Series!!!

[rpannier]

3. I hate the Yankees

That being said, "Go A's!!!!!!!!!!!"

[vickitulsa]

4. YAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!

SWEEEEEEEEEEETTT!!!! :applause: :woohoo:


:party:

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. Hmmm. Next thing you know stickers will say "Yankees Suck".

Nah, that wouldn't ever happen.

[DaveinMD]

6. As a Yankee fan, I'll point out

that the Yanks only win when Democrats are President. At least in my lifetime. 77 and 78 under Carter and 96, 98,99 and 00 under Clinton.

[Monkeyman]

11. Excuse Excuse thats why my White Sox are at home watching

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

68. The Yankees

are the Republican Party of Baseball.

[proud patriot]

7. As an A's fan I say Congrats to the Tigers

I look forward to a good series :hi:

[mac56]

8. It's not just winning, it's beating the Yankees that's the sweetest.

nm

[Perky]

19. Spot On!!! time for a war on Torre. Hee hee

My bet is that George wants Willie Randolph.

[mac56]

25. Lou Pinella is available.

But forget Buck Showalter.

[TahitiNut]

9. It's too bad the people whose neighborhoods were destroyed

... to build these temples to professional sports and corporate 'sponsorship' couldn't afford to be there and enjoy it. The economic divide in this area is HUGE and it definitely has a color, too. Nearly all the people seen in the stands will have driven out of the city before midnight ... back to the suburban enclaves ... leaving their litter behind.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. I didn't see a black face in the stands...in DETROIT!

Oh well. It's the same in the Bronx, I guess, at $50+ a ticket for the cheap seats.

We used to go to Rangers games on the fly...watta ya wanna do tonight? Let's go see the Rangers beat the Flyers.

Now, if you don't have season tickets, it's hard to get two seats next to each other weeks in advance. It's a fucking travesty. Now, baseball's a bit different (bigger stadiums and more games), but it's expensive as all get out. Detroit Tigers? Huh. Was anyone from the city of Detroit even at the game tonight?

[AnnieBW]

26. That's Why They Come To Baltimore

Whenever the Yank-mes play the Baltimore Orioles, the stands are always filled with Yankees fans. Ugh! There's nothing in the world more foul-mouthed, drunk, and obnoxious than a Yankees fan visiting another team's ballpark. But, we put up with them traveling down here and spending their money in Maryland.

As Detective Munch said in one "Homicide" episode: "A dead Yankees fan in Camden Yards. I'll have to check the books - I'm not sure that that's a crime."

Besides cheering for anyone NOT the Yankees, I'm hoping that Detroit gets it. Jim Leyland is a good manager.

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. Because all the white fans in Camden Yards volunteer daily in the Western

From the county, yes?

:rofl:

Something about a mote in the eye of the critic

[spoony]

34. Then you weren't watching.

Now hockey, there's a lilly white affair if ever there was one.

[spoony]

36. Also, who saw that celebration with the fans?

It was beautiful, like a whole community celebrating together and the players are just regular guys. I love the down-to-earth mentality of Detroit's sports teams, one of the best sports cities in the country I think.

I'm not so racially obsessed that I count, but I know damn well I saw a mix of ethnicities in there.

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. It's not a questionm of being "racially obsessed"

If you don't understand the way race a class operate in Detroit (and surtrounding suburbs), then you're a fool, at best. Everyone knows how it works, er, racially. Celebratations are nice, but when it comes to who gets tickets, i think I'm right, and I think no celebration can right that wrong. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of the "Detroit" fans in that stadium abandoned Detroit years ago. What you may not know is how badly their sefishness hurt the people who stayed. But celebrate away. You're not "racially obsessed," after all. That it is a supreme luxury not to have to be "racially obsessed" should go without saying. But it doesn't...

[spoony]

47. Let's see.

Yeah, actually, I know a tiny bit about race in Detroit. As for "who gets the majority of the tickets," well the people who can afford them, that's who. The rest of us stood on our cars in the parking garage with a pair of binoculars.

And why you assume the same people here tonight were the people who "abandoned the city" years ago is a leap of imagination I can't even begin to map. Detroit's suffered, no doubt. And race is a huge problem, I'll never deny it. White flight first, now black flight too, but Detroit proper is not all Detroit is. Detroit is our metropolitan area, and it IS a unit that depends on all other pieces. And what's good for Detroit--right now that's the influx of people for the Tigers--is good for all of us.

So damn right I'll be celebrating, thanks for the permission by the way. I'll be celebrating with the white, black, latino, middle-eastern, asian etc. people in our community, who are all happy together tonight.

If that makes your Yankee (or plain old condescending) self upset, so be it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. I'm a Met fan

So yhour whole premise is flawed.

Cheers.

[TahitiNut]

65. As a fellow who was born in Detroit over 60 years ago ...

... an who got his undergraduate degree at Wayne State University, and who lived in the city during the 67 riots and worked in the city teaching high school, at GM (New Center), and NBD (downtown) during the late 60s and early 70s ... I can say with confidence that it seems you lack the long-term familiarity and perspective to understand what you're seeing at Comerica Park. There's absolutely no question that the city has been abandoned and neighborhoods destroyed. ... and used for circuses and side shows. When I drive Woodward Avenue now, it looks more like Beirut than an American city ... and I know what I'm talking about. As a kid during the 40s and 50s, I remember taking the streetcar to downtown Detroit and later riding my bike down Woodward to visit the library and art museum. I remember the Vernors plant. I remember Sanders. I remember Bob-Lo. I remember a vibrant and busy Woodward Avenue from Ferndale to the foot of Woodward ... a street that a 12-year-old kid could ride his bike along. I remember Grand Boulevard, Outer Drive, Indian Village, Palmer Woods, and dozens of other middle-class neighborhoods in the city. I remember Briggs Stadium and seeing the same mix of races inside as I saw in the surrounding neighborhood. I was a bleacher bum. Today, it's an atrocity. Beirut.

[spoony]

66. Beirut? That's helpful.

I guess you're right. I wasn't born here 60 years ago and I don't remember what you're talking about. Perspective is what it is.

The divergence is that we don't see the same thing NOW. I see a city coming back, maybe it's idealistic. I don't know. What I do know is that my generation hasn't abandoned the city and aren't interested in perpetuating the idea that it's some godforsaken hell-hole with that idea's usual implication (I'm not saying it's yours, just the usual one) that the city isn't worth it; that it's irredeemable.

So, fine. It was once better than it is now. But it was also once worse, and that I do remember.

[ScreamingMeemie]

71. It's definitely idealistic. I'm a real estate appraiser and I spend a good

amount of time in Detroit and its neighborhoods. Outside of the Grand Circus Park Area, downtown, the Rencen, the casinos...it is FAR worse than it has ever been. Predatory lending has killed neighborhood revivals. Money isn't spent on improving neighborhoods and homes, it's spent on new ballfields and restaurants in one area... it's disgusting, and I hope one day you take the time to drive through the Beirut that TN has spoken of. One is blind if they don't see the real story of Detroit outside of the false 'diversity' of Comerica Park.

[AnnieBW]

62. My favorite scene

was the player that squirted champagne on the cop's flat-top hat, then hugged him.

[ScreamingMeemie]

72. They had an interview with the state policeman this AM...

He said it was the best moment of his life, and that, of course, Kenny asked permission. :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. It might be

But it certainly doesn't claim to be otherwise.

But I'll stand by a revised thesis: the vast, bvast, vast majority of people at the Tigers game tonight did not live in the city of Detroit. And the funny thing is that you know it as well as I do. Deflections are clever, but at the end of the day, they don't really help.

[spoony]

49. The ultimate deflection in this thread

Is you trying to make a sports celebration into a political condemnation because you're pissed the Yankees lost, lol.

[alcibiades_mystery]

57. Hey, I responded to Tahiti

I didn't lead off with this.

I have no problem with anyone celebrating. I myself celebrated the Mets win yesterday. Why the topic of race and class should be off-limits on a political message board, I don't know. Detroit is only a clear example.

But apart from that, I think the Tigers played great baseball, and the pitching in games 3 and 4 was incredible. They always hit when they needed to, and the shut down of the Yankee offensive juggernaut was monumental. Really great stuff to watch. Good then.

Tahiti made a point, and I responded to him. I don't see why that's a problem. It appears that you are the bitter one, so balled up in anger at God knows what that you don't even notice it. So blinded are you that you don't even mention that I launch the same critique against the Yankees themselves in my first post in this subthread. Not sure what to tell you. I can say the Tigers played fantastically. Moreover, if the Mets are knocked out, I'd like to see the Tigers win.

[rocktivity]

10. DING DING DING! Mr. Skidmore, you're our grand prize winner!

You can't buy a World Series, you have to earn it. So sez my husband.

And that's the problem with teams like the Landry-era Dallas Cowboys and Steinbrenner-era Yankees--they think they have a divine right to win all the time. It's not about putting together the best players money can buy.

:headbang:
rocknation

[alcibiades_mystery]

The Yankees make record profits

So what's the difference for the business side.

Where do you get the idea that they feel they have the God-given right to win every year.

They play every year, just like everybody else. The fact that they don't win every year just proves the idiots who say they bought the title when they do win wrong.

[AndreaCG]

22. I work 2 blocks from Yankee Stadium

Their fans sure behave like they are entitled to the title every year.

And if I'm not mistaken, Steinbrenner breaks the salary cap substantially every year.

[mac56]

28. George doesn't give a fat rat's ass about the salary cap.

Fines appear to be the cost of doing bidness in New Yawk.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. All fans behave as if they are entitled to a title

That's the definition of a fan...

:eyes:

Please point me to the salary cap language that Steinbrenner is violating. Thank you.

[ComerPerro]

35. there is no salary cap

EDIT for numbers:

It ranges from Florida's 14 million (and they still had a respectable finish, considering, finshed just shy of 100) to the Yankees 194 million.

The top five or six teams in payroll all hover around 100 - 115 million, except of course for the yanks.


The rest are somewhere between 20 and 100

Its all over the place

[ComerPerro]

41. It doesn't. Not at all

[longship]

12. I love my Tigers.

I grew up in Detroit, and lived in the city for the first 30-some years of my life. In my youth I would go down to Briggs Stadium and watch Detroit's Frank Lary pitch against the Yank's Whitey Ford. This was back in the day when pitchers had to actually play baseball. Lary would get up to bat and blast one into the stands to save his own game against the likes of the Yankee's lineup of the time, Mantel, Maris, et al.

Pitcher Don Mossi would frighten any batter with his fast ball alone, were it not for the fact that he was probably the homeliest guy to ever play the game. Another pitcher, Hank Aguirre, would joke about how he batted one for two (that's one hit in two seasons). Al Kaline who played right field for almost his entire career could throw a strike to the plate from just about anywhere along the right field wall. He caught many opponents attempting to tag-up from third on a right field fly. Tiger catchers were the best--Dick Brown and Bill Freehan!!

Then there was the season of all seasons, 1968. Don't get me started about that year.

Go Tiges!

[sufrommich]

14. Geez,just thinking about '68

gets me all misty eyed.Go Tigers!!!

[JNelson6563]

56. '84 was a helluva year too!

That was one rockin' time to be in the great sports town of Detroit. :toast:

[Opusnone]

63. I love Detroit, they deserve something to be happy about

The city has gone through some tough times and the people have managed through it all to keep their integrity and true blue standing as hard working, honest Americans.

I remember going to games with my Dad back in the 70's. I was lucky enough to see the great Al Kaline, Ron LeFlore, Mark Fidrych, Jim Northrup, Bill Freehan (my inspiration to become a catcher), Willie Horton, Aurelio Rodriguez...

Ahh, those were the days, sitting on the back porch with my Grandpa on a summer night listening to the amazing Ernie Harwell and the sounds of singing crickets...

Thanks for the post.

Go Tigers!

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. OK, I agree...so if the Yanks DO win, they haven't bought it, right?

They earned it, right?

Because you can't buy it...you actually have to play and win. I'm ready to hear retractions that the Yankees bought their titles in the 90's. Follow your own logic and be consistent.

[Skidmore]

15. Hey, I'm just quotin' the man.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. So tell your husband that he was wrong whenever he said the Yankees

bought their titles.

Because it can't be done, according to HIM. All titles are earned. The Yankees won titles. So, the Yankees earned their titles. QED.

[Gabi Hayes]

21. sorta like the pugs earned their election 'victories,' huh?

money had nothing to do with the Yankees' record, vs. say the Royals', right?

absolutely coincidental, right?

say what you want about any particular playoff series, but the Yankees aren't in the playoff without a, what is it, $250 MILLION dollar payroll.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Hey, I'm just following the logic of the OP

If you win the World Series, it's because you earned it.

You can't hold these two positions at once: The Yankees paid all this money and lost. Therefore, you can't buy a championship.

The Yankees paid all this money and won. Therefore, you can buy a championship.

These are irreconcilable positions. You either believe one, or you believe the other. You can't believe both, as a logical operation.

Now, in practice, what is obvious to everyone is that you can buy the top players, but the play depends on what goes on on the ballfield on any given day. The Yankees earned all their titles, as did everyone who beat them.

And, I mean, please, comparing someone you disagree with on a sports matter to a political opponent is not only a weak argument, it is a supremely pathetic one. You can engage me without insulting me, if you have an ethical approach to things. If you are just a flame warrior and care little for the basic restraints of argument, I guess I can't help the fact that you throw ridiculous bombs indiscriminately...

[ComerPerro]

40. No, they can. They just couldn't manage to buy it this year

I think they forgot that they actually had to show up and play.

[KatieW]

18. The Yankee's LOOOOSE, The Yankee's LOOOOSE!!!! ROFLOL

[n2doc]

20. And even better that A-Fraud's error helped sink them

Spoken as a still bitter Mariners fan....Go Oak and Detroit- should be a good ALCS

[mcscajun]

23. And the Yankees have earned it a lot. Twenty-six times, in fact.

Way before the days of Steinbrenner, the New York Yankees were winners, in their long history taking 26 out of 103 World Series Championships, in fact.

First win - 1923; followed by wins in 1927 and 1928, 1932 and consecutive wins 1936-1939; another notable run in the 40s and 50s: 1941, 1943, 1947, and 1949-1953, 1956, and 1958.
Back to back wins in the days of Mantle and Maris: 1961, 1962.
(1963 to 1976 - the Years of Drought)
Then the Steinbrenner years: 1977, 1978, 1996, 1998-2000.

Also, 11 times when they didn't win it, but were in it:
1921, 1922, 1926, 1942, 1955, 1957, 1960*, 1963, 1964, 1976, 2001 (you could hardly have expected a win that year, but hey, they gave us some sorely needed lift.)

37 showings in the World Series. You can't buy it, you earn it.

*We Wuz ROBBED in 1960! Robbed, I tell you! That at least was the refrain of a 9-year-old tomboy in The Bronx and nearly everyone she knew, adults and children alike back then in the borough that held The House That Ruth Built. We HATED Pittsburgh, when most of us kids didn't even know where Pittsburgh WAS! It might well have been another planet; all we knew is that we Hate, Hate, HATED the Pirates.

[ComerPerro]

37. Don't be delusional

the Yankees have always been about shelling the most money for the best talent.

That's why so many legendary players have been Yankees at some point.


They enjoy their success and profitablity not only due to being in a very large market and the lack of revenue sharing or salary cap.

They also have a century of success, all bought and paid for, that carries their tremendous reputation and gives them mythic status when compared to other teams.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Well, the OP said that any team that wins earns it

I should expecyt that this applies to the Yankees as well.

It seems to me that anyone who argues "Money=Success" would be embarrassed when the Yankees lose (since it completely invalidates their argument). Instead, they come out of the woodwork proudly proclaiming (never mind the paradox- here's the Yankee haters) that money does NOT equal success. It's an amusing spectacle, to be sure, if only for exposing hypocrites at their usual contradictions.

Yankees win = Bought a title
Yankees lose = Impossible to buy a title

Hey, douchebags, pick a major premise and stick with it. Otherwise, you just look like idiots.

[spoony]

48. Psst, your bitterness is showing. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. What bitterness...I'm a Met fan...we won yesterday

I just don't like stupid arguments

[ComerPerro]

50. It was poor phrasing by the OP

the point is, you can buy a world series, but Torre sucks so bad that even though they did everything they could to buy it, they still weren't good enough.

This is similar to cheating.

You can win by cheating, and if you are incompetent enough, you can cheat at still lose.

[mcscajun]

54. Your bitterness is definitely showing.

and I understand, you're from Chicago :hug:, so you already know the history. I'll just mention records without going into exhaustive detail, for those who maybe don't know:

Chicago Cubs in the World Series 8 times, Won 2.
Chicago White Sox in the World Series 3 times, Won 2.

The Cubs haven't won a World Series championship since 1908; the White Sox won one in 1917 and, well, we all know what happened in 1919*, and they've only won one World Series since then, just last year in fact.

*For the curious, Google "Chicago White Sox 1919"

[ComerPerro]

59. did you even read my post, at all?

The Yankees have (except for some tough years in the 80s) always been a nationally recognized team with a reputation for buying up talent and thus winning championships. So their success is built on previous success, as well as reputation, marketing, and the luxury of being in a very large market.


And, no, just for the record, I am unfamiliar with what happened in 1919. I am a fucking moron. I don't know jack shit. Thank you for enlightening me.

[mcscajun]

60. I know YOU knew about 1919; I'm merely enlightening the

curious onlookers to this.

[ComerPerro]

61. Additionally, for the record, I am not bitter, and don't really need to be

My team lost only one playoff game and swept the world series last year, and this year still won more games than all but one NL playoff team.

And the Yanks? They got owned by a team with less than half their payroll.

I have nothing to be bitter about or jealous of.

[Nye Bevan]

24. They need to trade A-Rod

He is pure postseason poison, playing in a team that is all about October.

[mac56]

27. Good luck with that.

Which of the other 29 teams can touch that salary?

George is stuck with Slappy for ever.

[faithnotgreed]

29. it is my understanding that texas is saddled with a part of it

for the remaining contract though its still a much heftier price for the other team

i also think the yankees need to get rid of him - he has had multiple seasons to show something in the post season and has not
now as someone who pulls for ANY team against the yankees i wont mind if they keep him but as much as i root against him & them
he is too talented to not produce at some point

i love the way that series went and applaud the tigers
too bad yankees and guiliani

[ComerPerro]

39. that's not an unhappy prediciment

No one, not even the Yankees, would ever consider themselves "stuck" with ARod. The guy is an amazing player, and he is just as good at SS as he is at the plate...

His numbers are too good to deny, even if he chokes during the postseason.


Why didn't his manager just bench him for a game?

[Jersey Devil]

46. Actually, ARod is a bargain for the Yanks

Texas is paying something like 10M of his salary of about 20M.

[ComerPerro]

38. Don't blame A-Rod

hard to get RBIs when no one reaches base.

Besides, he can't win by himself.

If anything, blame Steinbrenner for paying him so much money (bad business move), or blame Torre for failing as a manager.

[Ignacio Upton]

43. Ugh!...

I'm a Yankees fan (from NY) but my dad is a Tigers fan. He grew up outside of Detroit and hates the Yankees...although because the Tigers usually suck he doesn't follow baseball as much. I guess I'll root for the Tigers if they play against the Mets in the World Series.

[ComerPerro]

51. I don't understand how any liberal can be a Yankees fan

they represent all that is Republican and wrong...

[mac56]

55. It's like cheering for Wal-Mart.

nm

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

70. Whatever. I take it you didnt' grow up in the NYC area? nt

[stepnw1f]

58. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... I'm Glad to See the Monopoly Lose Again

Money isn't everything....

[marmar]

64. No Fighting...I'm delighted as a Detroiter and Tigers fan...

but I think the Yankees players are also class acts....

And look at it this way: It was a blue state-heavy playoff scenario. Look at the states represented:

AL - Tigers (blue Michigan); Yankees (blue NY); A's (blue California); Twins (blue Minnesota)
NL - Padres (blue California); Mets (blue NY); Dodgers (blue California); Cardinals (red Missouri, but a blue city :))

No Braves and that ridiculous Tomahawk thing; no Rangers (and its f..ked-up former owner); no Rockies (and the John Birch Society Coors family)

May the best (blue) team win!

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

67. So long to the Republican Party of Baseball

The symbol of greed, avarice, and a sense of entitlement in the sports world, the New York Yankees, aka "Satan's Team."

[JackRiddler]

69. Well, obviously you can buy...

a better shot at the big prizes, as the Yankees have.

But all the money in the world can't guarantee it - unless, of course, you're Meyer Lansky fixing the 1919 series.

But short of a fix, there are no guarantees.

Anyone who has had to deal with Yankee fans KNOWS that they all have this mine-by-divine-right attitude to the championship.

So let'em stew in it for another year.

Meanwhile, I cannot tell you how happy a Mets championship will make me. I know from experience that it will keep me happy for at least 20 years!

Furthermore, on the other discussion going on in this thread - the most mixed crowd you can find in the baseball world is that at a Mets game.

Recent studies found that Queens is the only county in the country with a population above 60,000 in which the median income for black households is now HIGHER than for white. Fancy that.