You have to be 24 to exclude parent's income, for college financial aid.

[LaraMN]

I think this needs to change. It is an abhorrent rule.

Following on the heels of my Wal-Mart rant, I want to address this.
I had my son at twenty. My husband and I weren't married until several months later.
After my son was born, I wanted to jump back into college right away, at least part time. I went to a community college and was told that despite the fact that my parents were not helping me financially, and my fiance was supporting myself AND our son (at about a $7.50/hr job) I HAD to count my parent's income in applying for aid, which meant I would get nearly nothing.

I was broke, trying to go back to school, and I COULD NOT, because of this stupid rule. I had to get married to be able to get out from under the situation, or become legally emancipated, which was no cakewalk, either.

I think this policy is a horrible barrier to young (especially single) mothers and fathers, and I want to see it changed.

/end of rant.

[ThomCat]

1. I was disowned by my father

and he made a lot of money, so I got screwed on financial aid for exactly this reason. The state INSISTED that I had to add in his income and ASSUMED that he was paying my tuition and living expenses. I'm now deep in dept becasue I had to rely on loans instead of financial aid. Because of their damned policy I'm going to be in dept for most of my life.
x(

I agree with you. This policy absolutely needs to change. There is no good reason for this policy. It is simply a way of punishing all of us who don't come from the idealized nuclear family environment.

[LaraMN]

2. Yep. The financial aid officer told me

"I know, it's not fair, but there's nothing we can do. Write to your legislators."

x(

[bleedingheart]

7. is this for state or federal aid? Is this specific to your state?

[LaraMN]

10. Both.

My eligibility for state aid was dependent upon my status on the federal aid application (the FAFSA).

[LeftyMom]

4. Something similar happened with my baby sister

My mom left when we were small. She hasn't paid support since my sister was a baby, but has a good job and makes good money. My sister can't get a cent in financial aid because of my mother's income being counted toward hers.

She's pretty lucky though, my Dad has so far managed to cover most of her expenses, and she got a job at a company that offers some tuition assistance and a small stipend toward her textbook costs. If Dad had not been able to help her out she'd not have been able to go to school. As is, she was accepted to the state university system but did two years at community college first to keep expenses reasonable.

[ThomCat]

36. It certainly doesn't help that College costs go up every year

at a higher rate than inflation. Every year it is just a little bit further out of reach.

[LeftyMom]

39. But they promise they won't raise tuition more than 10% a year

Gee thanks. :eyes:

[WindRavenX]

38. same thing happened to me

:(

The rule needs to change NOW.

[bicentennial_baby]

3. Yeah, I waited until I was 24 to go to skool

I agree

[johnnie]

5. College is over-rated

Just be smart like I am. :)

[bleedingheart]

6. I thought it was that your parents could not claim you as a dependent

on their income taxes for a certain period of time...?

Am I wrong in this?

I didn't know there was an age limit set specifically.

When I was in college, a guy I knew came from a fairly large family. His father stopped claiming each child on his income tax when they turned 16. So from then on the kid was no longer viewed as his dependent and he got no tax breaks.
So when my friend went to college at 18 he lived in his own apartment and he was considered "independent" of any parental income. Now this was about 15 years ago...so times may have changed a lot.

I agree with you about the whole idea that they think everyone gets help from a family...not everyone does.

[LaraMN]

12. Well, this was about 8 1/2 years ago, but it hasn't changed since then.

I'm not sure about tax issues, but I could. not. get out of claiming their income. If they could have helped me, by not claiming me as a dependent, they would have. It sucked.

[LostinVA]

17. No, you're right. I think it's two years n/t

[ThomCat]

22. My father stopped claiming me when I was 14

because my parents got divorced and I still got screwed because NYS insisted on counting his income.

[bleedingheart]

37. Was your mother claiming you as a dependent?

that might have been part of the "reasoning" that NYS used....

Personally I think that using the parental income as a basis for aid can really screw a lot of kids in the middle class as well as some well off kids who do not get along with parents. Also there are parents who are a financial mess..they have income but it is all sucked up by their "stuff" that they can't help their kids and yet the kid is screwed...

[ThomCat]

41. My mom claimed me

but she had minimal income. If they only considered her income I would have received maximum financial aid.

She and my father had been divorced for 4 years already when I first went to college, I did not live with him or get any support from him, and he did not claim me, yet they still insisted that his income counted.

You are right, it can screw a lot of kids. Kids who are in-fact dirt poor and living on public assistance (like my Mom, my brother and I did for a while) somehow have "too much income."

And it's particularly vicious to kids who come out and get disowned. It's a wonderful way for a parent to be truly malicious to a kid who dares to be queer.

[fizzgig]

8. that system is fubar

my dad made a fair amount of money but we were a one-income family and my mother was also in school. when i moved out, i went to the financial aid office to see if i could get more money. i explained the situation to them and they told me it was my parents' choice to not help me pay for college.

i made it through college fine, mostly because i lived at home for most of it but it was frustrating the one year i had my own place.

[ThomCat]

48. Right. If your parents Choose not to be wealthy

or choose not to be wealthy enough. That was my mom's problem. How dare she. She chose to be dirt poor when my father walked out.
x(
I hate bureaucracies.

[Reverend_Smitty]

9. Fortunately...or unfortunately...

my dad didn't make a lot of money to begin with so I was able to get some aid. But now it's 4 years later and we are both $20,000+ in debt because of my schooling. Thanks America! :sarcasm:

[Phillycat]

11. I had the same problem.

I moved out when I was 16 and had a...erm...less than desirable relationship with my parents. Still, despite the fact that I was an A student, I could not get aid for college because of my parents' income - EVEN THOUGH I was supporting myself (on minimum wage, I might add). I had to wait about 5 years to be eligible for aid, if I remember correctly.

[LaraMN]

13. Yep. Hard to get a leg up, when the system is arranged in such a way

to screw over students who aren't receiving the help the govt. implies that they are.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

14. It's one of the reasons I'm not in school right now.

Looking at my parents income, I would get no financial aid.

[LaraMN]

16. How long until you're 24?

It's fucking ridiculous that you have to sit around and wait, when you've the desire to do otherwise. "Lift yourself up by your bootstraps," my ass. Kind of hard to do that when the system steals your straps and flogs you with them.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

21. Not long.

My birthday's in February. However, the FAFSA deadline is January, so I need to make sure they look at my age during the school year I'm filing for and not the age at application.

[mark414]

15. it is ridiculous. i never received financial assistance from my parents

once i moved out of the house and i barely got anything for financial aid. it's one of the big reasons i dropped out, though i would like to return soon...

[datasuspect]

18. the scions of wealth

the scrubbed washy cleaned faced, red rosy cheeked sons and daugthers of wealth have nothing to worry about, so what's the problem?

isn't it great that we live in a country where the most wealthy and the most powerful close as many doors as possible for the working and disappearing middle class?

you see, you and yours need to "pick yourselves up by your bootstraps" and WORK hard for everything (you, see this builds character).

/sarcasm

[Left Is Write]

19. I was going to dispute this, saying that I got financial aid...

on my own before that age, but I would have been wrong.

I was, in fact, 24 when I applied for and received a loan and a grant. I was a single mother at the time.

[Divameow77]

20. I live in Minnesota

and because I had a child (at 20) I did not have to claim my parents income before I turned 24. My sister lives in Georgia and was able to go to school without parental income at 22 because she had a child. :shrug:

[LaraMN]

23. That was not my experience.

I wonder what would account for the difference? Were you legally emancipated? It was in 1998 that I tried to go back to school, initially.

[Divameow77]

28. No I wasn't

I just tried to go to Inver Hills Community College when I was 21, living on my own, just me and my son, and that was the experience I had. It was a while ago, but I remember filling out the FAFSA with my admissions person and she said that since I had a child and was living on my own I didn't need to include my mothers income. I ended up not going because I couldn't afford the daycare while I was in school, but my financial aid had already gone through before I withdrew.

I'm 29 now and divorced with 2 boys and I'm going to school now, but it's student loans that's paying for it now.

[LaraMN]

31. Hmm. Your situation was parallel to mine,

except for the fact that I was living with my boyfriend.

:shrug:

I'm in school again now, as well. Loans here, for the most part, too. I'm SO glad to back. I love it, and I have about 12 classes left, to finish my degree. How far along are you, and what are you studying?

[Divameow77]

42. I'm going for

my BS in Business Admin w/ emphasis in Marketing. Going part-time is sure make it seem like it takes forever though... I'm about half finished.

[LaraMN]

47. I hear ya!

I'm going half-time as well, hoping to bump up to 3/4 time next semester IF they offer classes that fit my rather restrictive schedule. That's been a bit of an issue.

We'll get there! We will!

[johnnie]

24. Ok, I'm lost here

After reading all these posts I guess I was not aware that going to college should be a right. Now don't get me wrong, I think it is a good idea to find ways to help people get education, but I didn't know that people expect loans based on the fact that they want to go to school and that's it.

I understand the original post, and I can see where there seems to be something wrong with this, but there has got to be more to it. I knew a lot of people that got loans to go to school, and their families weren't hurting for money. I must be missing something here.

I know that in my case, my father told us he couldn't afford to send us all to college so we all went to work. My brother is a successful sales manager for a local lawn service, both my sisters are doing well and raising three children each (single mothers), and I put myself through technical school and have worked my way into an Engineering position.

I guess my question is, is it common these days to expect to get help to go through college? Am I that old? Or did I just not notice it when my father told us he wasn't paying? That was only the early 80s.

[mark414]

26. i guess the major complaint is

that people who receive no outside financial assistance (like money from the folks) and support themselves aren't recognized as doing so for financial aid purposes...

i went to work for a year after high school because i knew such a scenario was in my future, and my year in school included a some weeks full time some weeks not job that still could barely cover the expenses.

it would almost be like me getting a new job and them saying that they're going to pay me half of the average wage because of my parent's income...

[johnnie]

Things must have changed then

As I said, I had friends who went to college right out of high school and a lot of them had loans.

[LeftyMom]

32. School was a good deal cheaper then, too

And wages were proportionately higher and housing cost much less, so working one's way through school was a more practical option.

[eyesroll]

55. Which is what a lot of people do, but...

Let's say you're 20 and you have a kid. Or you're 20 and you have an estranged relationship with your parents. And, for whatever reason, your parents aren't contributing one cent toward your education (which is their right, even if they're rich).

Problem is...for financial-aid purposes (including many types of student loans), your parents' income is counted until you're 24 or married. Let's say the parents make $200K a year, and school will cost $15,000 a year. According to the formula, your "expected family contribution" more than pays for your schooling, so grants and federal loans will be denied. If your parents are paying, then that's fine. If your parents are not, you're SOL. You can look for private loans, but if you don't have a credit history (or what you have isn't very good), you're doubly SOL.

[datasuspect]

29. it's not a "right"

but when companies want a bachelors degree for administrative assistant positions, it becomes more or less a "necessity."

plus what practical sense does it make for the government to make a challenge even more challenging, especially considering the minute fragment of the federal budget that financial aid spending comprises?

i guess if they get them into the army first . . .

[Divameow77]

43. Don't forget

they want the bachelors degree but only want to pay $12 an hour.

That's total BS!

[ThomCat]

44. And then there are all the jobs that require a Masters

but only pay $30k.

:wtf:

[datasuspect]

45. in the mid/late 90s

we were paying non degreed admins between 16-20/hour.

[ThomCat]

49. I doubt it's the same today.

[Divameow77]

52. I know it's not

I am thinking of moving to Florida in February and have been feeling out the job market in that area and I'm seeing as low as $9 an hour for admins. I make $40,000 right now, I can't imagine even considering taking a job for that much less.

[LaraMN]

30. I can't speak to others' thoughts,

but to me, it's an example of unfair practices of aid disbursal. The amount of assistance one does or does not get is supposed to be predicated upon their individual need. The fact that a person's parents have significant income is not necessarily a reflection of the amount of resources a student ACTUALLY has. A student whose parents made $80,000 a year, for example were, by this formula, entitled to assistance before someone like I was; my parents made over that amount. I, however, was NOT receiving help from them, and struggling to find enough money to buy diapers for my child. I think the anger is focused on the perceived unfairness of the system.

[bleedingheart]

34. It isn't about the right to go to college, it is the financial aid problem

If you are a kid who is bright and your parents are poor....you can get loans, grants and other aid.

If you are a kid who is bright but your parents are rich/middle class...they are expected to foot a certain part of the bill. If they refuse to or do not...then the kid will have to come up with the excess on their own because of the calculations the student aid services do....So even if the dad is a wealthy guy...the kid may not be able to afford college because the father won't help...what makes it worse is when the same father is claiming the kid as a dependent (thereby gaining a tax break) but refuses to help with college.

I know of one case where a girl I went to college with successfully sued her father for college assistance. He was a steel executive and he made a lot of money but because of his divorce from her mother.....he refused to help pay for college.
She won her case...

My mother helped me, I worked and I had loans. I graduated from engineering school and now help out my mother.

[ComerPerro]

53. You obviously missed the point, didn't you

in fact, the OP wasn't complaining about parent's who refuse to pay.

The complaint was about a system that was wired only for those who have parental support.

[johnnie]

56. Please read my post again

"After reading all these posts I guess I was not aware that going to college should be a right. Now don't get me wrong, I think it is a good idea to find ways to help people get education, but I didn't know that people expect loans based on the fact that they want to go to school and that's it.

I understand the original post, and I can see where there seems to be something wrong with this, but there has got to be more to it. I knew a lot of people that got loans to go to school, and their families weren't hurting for money. I must be missing something here."


I said that "after reading all these posts I guess I was not aware that going to college should be a right" I wasn't really commenting on the original post, I was commenting on the replies.

[ComerPerro]

57. Some people whose parent's make too much for Federal get private loans

and they need parents to cosign

[dropkickpa]

61. Looking at my parents income,

There was no way I could qualify for federal aid (they failed to take into account that I am 1 of 6 children). To get a private loan, my parents would have had to cosign, but they wouldn't have been approved because of debt issues they had. So I was fucked. I busted my ass working 60 hours a week to afford school and burned out after one semester. I was 20 years old. Went to technical school at 25 after my kid was born because I couldn't justify spending the money (and 4 years) getting the degree I really wanted when I had to work at the same time and have a guaranteed job coming out of school.

I dream of hitting the lottery so I can go to school for what I really want to learn.

[Burma Jones]

25. What if you're a Veteran?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

51. Then you fall under the tattered GI Bill and your parents income doesn't

matter.

[Radical Activist]

27. One of many stupid parts of our college student aid system.

Its too bad college students don't vote in higher numbers and think about their own interests. We would be hearing about this instead of being told why young people have to worry about social security. Why should I care about getting social security benefits? I could save for my own retirement right now if I didn't have over $10,000 in student loans to pay off.

[ThomCat]

35. You are considered fairly fortunate.

Most people with student loans are in far more debt than just $10k.

I have over 7 times that, and it's mostly due to dirty tricks by the banks. They split my loans while I was still a student and sold them off. Instead of having 1 loan with a 15 year term I had 10 loans with 5 year terms, which drastically increased how much I was supposed to pay. When I couldn't pay it, they started piling on penalties.

They started trying to collect while I was still in school and refused to accept the papers from the schools that showed I was a full time student. I was considered "in default" for my last two years in school depite repeated efforts to resolve my status. That added a bunch more penalties.

Over half of my outstanding balance is just because of penalties and the interest that has accumulated. Once they started playing games with my loans and denying my paperwork I ended up so far in debt that I've basically got a mortgage straight out of school.

I have consolidated every loan I can find. According to my credit report there is at least one more loan out there somewhere, but nobody has been able to tell me where it is, what bank currently owns it, or what the ammount is. So as hard as I work to pay off my student loans I'm probably going to get bit on the ass by another piece when some company somewhere finally "finds me" and tries to collect. More penalties, more fees, more interest, and back to square one.
x(

[Radical Activist]

40. Most of my friends

also have more loans than me. I spent two years in community college, which helped a lot. Your story sounds horrible.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. i agree. its a stupid rule.

[Deep13]

46. Yep, my parents were inattentive to me but well heeled.

I got screwed.

[Karenca]

50. 22 in N.Y. - NT

[Broken_Hero]

54. I agree...

same thing happened to me, thank god for Haskell though..it was rather cheap, so cheap is was damn near free for me...without Haskell, I would have went military...

[distantearlywarning]

58. Same thing happened to me.

My parents wouldn't pay for school, and I couldn't get financial aid. Had to wait until I was 25 to go back and get my degree.

I agree, it's a completely stupid rule, and unfair to people whose parents can't or won't pay, or to people who are independent early.

[Nikia]

59. This rule does have a purpose

Otherwise, everyone could claim that their parents wouldn't help and everyone would need financial aid even if their parents were helping.
I do think that young parents who have a child and haven't been living with their parents for a certain amount of time, like a year or two should be able to get aid without regard to their parents income.
As for parents who refuse, I don't know if there is an appropriate way to determine this. There could be certain allowances for divorced parents (counting only the custodial parent's income or putting this into child support laws), but I don't think that you could determine who was lying or not on the basis of a simple statement that one's parents were not going to help pay for college.

[electron_blue]

60. well, you have to prove it anyway.

Way back when I went to college, the rule of independence was a lot more lenient. You had to prove financial independence for one year and you could do it starting at 18. The first year was a bitch, but then you could claim financial independence. When I did that, I had to submit copies of both my parents income tax returns showing they didn't claim me and that I claimed myself. Fraud is always possible for the determined, of course, but there were enough safeguards in place, I think, that abuse wasn't rampant. When my sister came along, just 3 years later, the rules had changed and she could not claim financial independence, despite being in the same exact situation I had been. This was in the early 1980's, which is when major changes went through (Reagan-era)