Can you help? Our kindergarten grandson doesn't know his A-B-C's...or his numbers!

[Radio_Lady]

He can't recognize letters at almost age 6 (on December 1) -- doesn't know anything about telling time. He says they do not have any workbooks in his class. School is mostly "teacher telling stories" and "learning about religion."

When are these concepts usually taught? (I remember learning to read signs at age 4 1/2, and my daughter was using pen and paper to outline letters when she was in pre-school.) This beautiful boy goes to a religious day school with full day kindgergarten for which my daughter and her husband are paying thousands of dollars!

I am furious! Our granddaughter went to the same parochial school and entered public first grade way behind other children. She had to struggle to catch up with reading and it was first blamed on her vision. Then they thought it was the teacher at this same school. The only thing that has changed is -- there is another teacher and she assured the parents that they would "do better" with our grandson!

I warned my daughter about this last summer and begged her to try the local public kindergarten. These kids are not dumb, but my daughter sent them to this school for the "extra" goodies -- mostly learning about her religion.

Should I be alarmed? All I know is that I am furious! I'm about to unload my opinion on top of her head tonight...

Anyone with a background in teaching -- or mothering -- or grandmothering -- PLEASE RESPOND!

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[ChoralScholar]

1. She can tell her son Bible stories at home...

Once he is behind in school and loses self esteem, he may never get it back.

Is she sending him because she really wants him to have a religious education, or wants a 'look at me' Christian piety symbol?

[Karenina]

2. Your grandson is 6 and in TROUBLE.

R_L, as a loving Nana, you might consider becoming interfering and obnoxious, if that's what it takes to pound some sense into your daughter's head... Your grandson has been SERIOUSLY left behind.

[zonkers]

3. This can be dealth with. But it has to be dealt with now. First things first....

label everything in the house with big post its. Door, counter, fridge, etc. 2nd, DL workbooks/worksheets online that have pics and practice letters., 3rd, get a tutor to help you. Once you jumpstart the kid's desire/curiousity to read, he will take over.

[Karenina]

14. Zonkers nails it. NOW

is the operative word. Great suggestions. R-L, do get 2 sets of magnetic letters and numbers, one for your daughter's fridge and one for yours. I've never known a kid who didn't LOVE them. If your grandbaby has been engaged by his parents in learning activities, has any exposure to Sesame Street or similar programs and still makes no connexions, an evaluation is indeed warranted.

[lildreamer316]

46. DON'T kill me for this suggestion:

My almost-3 year old son gets to watch Noggin on TV (it's a whole channel on fron 6AM to 6PM) as a treat. He started counting from one of the programs there,and we just took it from there. He now counts to 10 and can say most letters, although he has a problem reciting the alphabet in order.
I'm not saying to plant him in front of the tv, but it could help if you can't engage interest some other way, and the programs are geared for preschool and kindergarten. Very well done shows.

Just thought anything might help. Could have it on in the background.

[Radio_Lady]

52. In addition to the religious immersion, my daughter believes that

her children are better off with hardly any television or movies. She regiments television to just a couple of programs, and they only have the basic cable TV service in their home.

She basically sees movies and TV as detrimental to their well being. We have to fight with her to allow the children to see any movie that is rated PG. The kids enjoy our home because we have TV piped in to practically every room and we let them watch Noggin, Disney, and even the Cartoon Network.

[lildreamer316]

60. Well at least

they get a bit of it somewhere.
I just think that for a tv channel, Noggin is wonderful. Not a substitute at all, but very good considering.

[lildreamer316]

61. Here's a tack you could take..

(I'm semi-serious here)
My parents pretty much thought the same way when it came to tv, movies, and music. Now, they weren't ultra-religious or anything; in fact they were pretty liberal in some respects, but kinda in that pseudo-intellecual way. I had almost no exposure to the "real world" (people and popular culture-wise) until I was put in public school in 8th grade. It was horrible, but I learned quickly and adjusted.

AND BECAME A STRIPPER.

probably mostly because of my repressed (in certain areas) upbringing.

If you have to, tell her that. It's completely true.

(I of course am fine,but most people don't believe that!)

[noamnety]

84. Disney?

I'm going to quietly recommend that you request the Mickey Mouse Monopoly from your library system.

[zonkers]

64. Sorry, I have orders to kill you for that suggestion. Just kidding. But

seriously, that is a great suggestion. It's all about stimuli and good habits. It's also about providing kids a relaxed and safe environment in which to learn. Bedtime stories, picture books, TV shows, videos. It's all good. Life is supposed to be a FuN AdVeNtUrE!!!!!!!!!! RIght???????????!!!!!!!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

4. This is completely inexcuseable.

Your daughter is doing your grandson a disservice by sending him to a school that has proven that they don't care about education her children. She shouldn't be paying them to tell him religious stories. That kid should know his numbers and letters by now! I know kids in kindergarten here who are learning to READ! There is no excuse for this crap. I agree with the other poster. Get involved, be annoying and pushy, but don't back down. If your daughter gets pissed at you for caring about her children, then those kids need you terribly. More than you ever thought.
Duckie

[Radio_Lady]

54. I have been told to back off tonight, and even though I choke on it,

that's really what I have to do.

Luckily, my daughter is not drinking, on drugs, or in prison. She's made some missteps in raising her school age children, but hopefully, all of this will be recoverable.

If I push any harder, it will just come back to bite me.

I wish it were easier.

Grandparenting is supposed to be easier, but sometimes, it isn't. Especially when you see something with which you SERIOUSLY disagree.

[DawgHouse]

5. He should know his abc's and numbers

unless he has a learning disability. I'm with the other posters - this child needs intervention or he will only fall further behind.

[MaryBear]

9. Do check out learning disabilities.

Maybe he is being taught but can not take it in. Or cannot get it back out.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[philosophie_en_rose]

6. Half day kindergarten at both locations might be helpful.

There is just no excuse for six year old not to have been taught numbers and letters.

I don't know what you can do, Radio_Lady. If it were me, I'd probably buy a bunch of uninteresting workbooks or sneak in some alphabet soup. Not that helpful.

I don't know what to write. Maybe educational gifts this Christmas?

[Radio_Lady]

23. I tried to fly the idea of TWO schools and my daughter nixed the whole idea.

Too complicated for the little darlings to be bussed from one place to another.

Even the public school nearby has a friendly situation. The daily kindergarteners go from one room to another for the afternoon session.

I don't know what my daughter has for brains!

[philosophie_en_rose]

63. Does she want the kid to read or not?

I feel for you. Maybe some Sesame Street DVDs? I learned to read at 3 from watching Sesame Street.

[Pithlet]

7. He should know his letters and numbers by now.

You're definitely right to be concerned. If I were his parents, I'd be looking at the school, and I would also look at having him evaluated. Not that I think your grandson has any problems, but it's important to rule out any potential disabilities and/or learning problems. The earlier the intervention, the better off your grandson will be. Though, as you say, another grandchild had problems, so it sounds like it's the school. Either way, you're absolutely right; the problem has to be addressed now. It doesn't look like the school is meeting his needs. I wish you lots of luck, and hope you can open your daughter's eyes.

[Radio_Lady]

57. Right, Pithlet, but beyond appealing to the parents' intellect, there is

not much I can do.

It's a really bad case of DON'T TELL US WHAT TO DO, MOTHER... WE'LL DO WHAT WE WANT BECAUSE THESE ARE OUR CHILDREN.

[LeftyMom]

8. This is pretty concerning.

A child of that age should have picked up his letters and numbers and be well on the way to reading (if not there already) by pure exposure. Is your daughter reading to/with him daily? Is he getting too much TV time or other distraction from gentle learning experiences?

As far as the school goes, lack of worksheets does not concern me. However, unless this is a school where late reading is not abnormal (waldorf education for one) their inattention to your grandson's ignorance of letters and numbers is disturbing (although I do want to point out that your daughter is complicit here, he really should have known them before he started school.) Perhaps he needs a school with a different approach to learning, even if his mother wants to keep him in a private school next year it's probably time to look for another one. It's entirely possible that this is a very good school but their methods simply don't mesh with your daughter's childrens' needs. In the meantime, can one of you work to get him caught up in the meantime? A summer of one on one instruction and some afterschool help in the meantime is probably all he needs to not be behind by the first grade. If he doesn't really show any progress, it might be time to look into a learning disability evaluation just to rule out the possibility.

[FooFootheSnoo]

12. Get a magna doodle, some index cards and a fat red marker

I wrote one letter on each index card. I gave my daughter a magna doodle so that she could practice drawing the letters over and over(saves on paper too). She's gotten pretty good. Can't write every letter, but does know the whole alphabet. Learning to write her name really motivated her to learn to write other things. So, maybe if he can learn to write his name, he'll want to learn the rest of the alphabet. I'm sure it's not a motivation problem on you grandson's part, sounds like it's a motivation problem on the teacher's part. Good luck. He's lucky to have a grandma like you.

[conscious evolution]

13. I have seen some good ideas here on

how to deal with this.
One more suggestion.It almost sounds like this school should be investigated.You might want to consider reporting this place to the local or state education agency.

[Radio_Lady]

22. I've thought about this. Could I do it anonymously? What would the name of the agency be?

I'm in Oregon. I'd need someone's help in locating the exact agency, which would probably be in Multnomah County, Oregon. Our state government is in Salem, Oregon.

This school is located in a broken down house with another building that is in just as bad disrepair. Just looking at the physical plant is disgusting. I don't know why my daughter isn't responding to suggestions that she really start SEEING this place for what it is.

Thanks for your help! I do appreciate it!

[conscious evolution]

34. Not sure in Oregon

Maybe board of education can help.Or maybe one of the accreditation associations.Possible the teachers union could get involved.There may even be a state agency tasked with keeping an eye on private schools.Then again,since this is a private school there is the possability the State is unable to intervene.
Another thing that might help is if any of your local tv news have one of those consumer protection type reporters maybe they might be interested in doing an expose.
And if the school buildings are substandard maybe the health or building code enforcement or fire departments could be involved.

[barb162]

47. Iwonder if it's a school or a glorified baby-sitting service

and does Oregon have a law that a kid has to be in kindergarten

[Radio_Lady]

55. In my humble opinion, it's a crummy school run by religious zealots who are

just doing it for the money. Sorry, but what can you say about a man of the cloth, and his wife and their ELEVEN CHILDREN?

They can't keep a staff -- replaced every year with NEW young people -- for the past five or six years that she has been associated with them.

Honestly, this discussion just makes me want to barf....

Maybe I'll make some phone calls to see what the Board of Education can and cannot do.

[sarge43]

15. I aided in a kindergarten for a couple of years.

By the end of the school year 99% of the kids knew the alphabet, most knew numbers thru at least 25, could read one syllable words and read very simple stories (The cat walks. The bird sings. etc), understood and used basic punctuation (capital letters, periods, question marks) could tell the hour (most of them still had problems with minutes), were writing simple sentences - noun, verb, could draw a recognizable object, could recognize and describe basic shapes - squares, triangles, etc and could write letters and numbers legibly.

This is a rural public school in NH.

Telling time seemed tough for many of the kids, but he should be able to recognize letters by now.

[Radio_Lady]

24. UPDATE: He knows the ABC song because I've been singing it to him

for years. Asked to identify these letters in any word on a page, he can't.

He also can count to 50 or more... but he could not read the numbers 5 and 6 when he was weighed on a digital scale. Crazy!

But he seems only knows S O L M N, the letters in his name, Solomon.

I'm just disgusted; my husband refuses to back me up in talking to my daughter about this because it has already caused a rift in the family last summer, when I deigned to talk about it.

All he will agree with is HE be allowed to talk to the child's FATHER at a weekly dinner meeting they share.

(Hubby was the guy who introduced his step-daughter to this man; they have a friendship besides being in-laws.)

[sarge43]

62. And his eyes have been checked? n/t

[hickman]

16. I went to a parochial school for 8 years.

Kindergarten at public school and 1-8 at Catholic school. When I started back to public in 9th grade I was a year ahead of everyone. Best academic year of my life. Some are good, and some suck. Religion class should be only one half hour of the day for the first 3 years. Kindergarten is supposed to teach letters and social skills. First grade is supposed to be all about learning to read, and basic math. In my school district kids need to know how to print their name to get into kindergarten.

[Radio_Lady]

27. I do believe he can print his name, but it starts with an "S" and it is

only recently that the teacher is telling him he is forming it backwards.

[Jamastiene]

42. That is true that some are good and some suck.

I went to a Christian school from toddler school (3 year old classes) until the right wing takeover of the school in 6th grade. I went to public school way out ahead.

It really does depend on the school. Maybe a suggestion to find another religious type school that has a better record of keeping kids in step with where they are supposed to be would work.

[Radio_Lady]

51. Jamastiene, there are no other choices. This is a small splinter of a religion

and my daughter has boxed herself in with believing that this small school is "superior" to public or other private school education.

Also, the woman who runs the school has "done her a favor" by cutting the price of this supposedly superior education by several thousand dollars. But she is still paying several thousands of dollars for the education.

None of it makes any sense to me.

[tinfoil tiaras]

17. OT, but your grandson shares my birthday!

therefore, he is X-tra KOOL (with a capital K...which means really cool...hehe). December 1st babies rock!

Anyways, I'm gonna assume that the school is private because of your mention of "parochial" in your post. If the public schools are any good in your area, maybe you could switch him into public school in a special class of some sort. Or, if the public schools in your area aren't that good (like mine), then maybe you should switch him to a different private school.

Just the thoughts of a teenager with no background in education or anything. Just wanted to help as much as i could :)

[Radio_Lady]

29. Hello, SWEETHEART! Here's the little boy of our dreams! He's

SO cute, but I'm just tormented about this school thing. Just in case I miss it in a couple of weeks, have a happy birthday! He's having a laser light birthday -- how about you?



{{photo coming}}

[tinfoil tiaras]

32. Aw, he's really cute!

Thanks for the early birthday reminder. I'm in this choir or whatev and i have to perform a concert on the day before my birthday, the day of my birthday and the day after my birthday, so I can't really celebrate on any of those days. I guess theyre's always December 3rd...:)

Laser light? That sounds cool, like laser-tag? I loved laser-tag. Haha.

Once again, I hope things get better and just do what you think is right for your grandson. Being religious is good, but you shouldn't give up an education for religion, imo. :)

[Debbi801]

18. My experience...

My son is 4. He is in a public day care preschool. Since September, they have worked on A, C, D, S, G, and O extensively--they have a workbook for each letter, practice writing upper and lower case letters, matching pictures with the correct letter, coloring pictures that start with a certain letter a specific color, etc. By the time this year is over, he will have completed a workbook for each letter. Each week he gets homework that involves practicing writing upper and lower case letters for the letter of the week, number concepts (counting number of apples in a tree or circling a specific number of objects), as well as other concepts such as circling the picture that is different from the others, circling the item that is on top, etc. He can recite his ABC's, count to 30, knows all his colors and shapes, can write his first name, and recite his full name and address. All of this has been since the beginning of this preschool school year. However, he has not done anything with telling time.

I hope this helps. I would be very concerned.

[Radio_Lady]

30. Thanks Debbi -- ever response is so important to me. I know I'm not

imagining this, and we are dealing with intelligent parents -- my daughter has an MA degree and my son-in-law is a doctor of medicine!

My daughter is just blinded by the "importance" of teaching "religious history" -- and my son-in-law just goes along for the ride. It's just absurd.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

19. My youngest had a lot of trouble. We got him cheap Phonics cassette tapes

it works!

[Radio_Lady]

31. Hi Viva. I have so little control now -- only seeing the kids about

one or two days a month.

OT: How is your water level this evening? We've had quite windy conditions tonight (Sunday) but we aren't near a creek or river.

Hope everything works out for your climate wise!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

35. sing along tapes (or CD's or VHS) would be great then

he can listen to them anywhere.

Water level is ok, but they said up to an inch tomorrow... and the ground is already saturated. We lost at least 2 trees in the wetland last week, and that was just water. 30-50mph gusts and more rain...

[hickman]

20. I just called my brother.

He was a teacher for years and now works for the board of education. He said to ask permission from the parents and home school him on week-ends. Someone up thread gave a good idea. He also said when it's family and religion, walk softly, or words to that effect. He also told me to butt out.

[Radio_Lady]

44. Yes, your brother is right. I've already heard from my daughter that

we are not religious enough to have any right to guardianship of these children.

I swear, she would rather give them to strangers of her religion than to grandparents.

It's a very warped view, but I'm trying to tolerate it.

Actually, her daughter (my eight-year-old granddaughter) is doing a really good job of straining at the reins right now! She refused to go to the last religious service ("all day long and BORING") and ended up spending the day with Grandma and Grandpa. We had a great time last month!

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[hickman]

53. Radio_Lady, He told me, his sister, to butt out.

Not you needing advice. Our formerly fractured family has been coming back together, and he figures that I(the one who left and took her kids with her) should just leave threads like this alone.

[Radio_Lady]

58. Oh, I misunderstood. But I do understand fractured families.

Glad yours is coming together. Don't complicate it with the DU family!

[hickman]

59. But there in lies the crux.

DU was here when my family wasn't. I used to be Hickman1937. Long story. Loyalty is earned as far as I'm concerned. Mine lies here.

[Whoa_Nelly]

21. Am a retired teacher

As you pointed out, it's probably the instruction, or lack thereof, he's exposed to at his current school. Unfortunately, sounds like your daughter isn't working with him regarding this on the homefront.

Is you daughter not alarmed about this?

Will he be attending public school come next fall?

Is he allowed to use a computer to play learning games?

There are things that can be done to help him at this age, and sometimes there are kids who just aren't ready to learn the abstracts of reading and numbers.

Please...PM me with more info, details, and will give you my best advice.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

25. Okay, I'm sorry, but that's really sad.

Even if he can't read, he should know what letters look like by that age, surely, unless he's LD.

[Radio_Lady]

45. The good news is that he may be further along than we realized, but

for whatever the reason is, he doesn't want to do those things when he sees us.

His coloring with crayons at the restaurant looks pretty controlled and accurate.

His verbal ability is quite good. His eyesight looks normal. He can sing the ABC song, but he just doesn't associate the sung letters with the written alphabet.

He's typical boy... loves action heros... dancing... playing with small legos (very inventive). We've been through two sons in this family who were not the greatest students.

Grandpa claims he wasn't either -- barely scraped through high school. Oh, boy!

[Laelth]

26. I'd call an attorney and figure out if grandparents have ...

... significant rights in Oregon (or in whichever state the child lives). You may be able to sue for custody, if you want it. At the very least, the child should be checked for a medical or psychological problem/issue that might be interfering with learning. A court might order that if a person with standing asked it to. The question is whether you have standing in the home state of the child.

It strikes me that you might have a hard time seeing the child in the future if you lash out at the mother. That would be bad because the child desperately needs to see you more often, it seems.

Good luck. I sympathize with the seeming powerlessness of your situation.

-Laelth

[Radio_Lady]

43. We're not up to doing anything with a lawyer, but thanks for the information.

Appreciate your sympathy.

I'm just going to try and help this child in my own way.

We only see him a couple of times each month. The family is extraordinarily busy and we'll do what we can.

The parents are into rationalization about this situation. If I do anything "out of the ordinary," they will be extremely unhappy.

I'm sure he'll catch up. He's a very verbal little guy. We put on childen's shows with closed captioning and I am going to look into some of the educational tips you folks have given me here tonight.

Thank goodness for the DU.

[sakabatou]

28. Does anyone have old tapes of the Pinwheel Network

That's how I learned to read. In 1 month. After that I started reading and reading and reading... At the end of kindergarten I was reading "The Way Things Work."

So yeah, old tapes of the Pinwheel Network might help.

[yewberry]

33. Ouch.

I work in an elementary school (tutoring "at-risk" K-5 kids), and this is pretty troubling.

We have a before-school class for kindergarteners at that level (most are ELL kids) to help them reach the level of the K classes. They get extra support with letters and numbers and by the end of the year, they generally have letter-names, most letter-sounds, numbers to twenty, and the ability to write most letters (setting aside reversals).

I'd do something immediately, but don't try to do too much. Make sure that there are supplies around for helping teach without drowning him in it. Get or make some cueing posters (like http://www.phonicsq.com/product4.html ) for the walls and the Bob Books ( http://www.bobbooks.com), and encourage him to learn to write his name.

There are a lot of skills that kids learn in kindergarten and some of them don't seem like much, but they're necessary building blocks. He should be learning letters and numbers (though it's a little early for telling time), but he should also be learning how to hold a pencil, working on motor skills through drawing, learning color names, understanding patterns, those kinds of things. You may need to think about whether he's getting that kind of instruction, too.

Please feel free to ask specific questions if there is anything I can help with.

Good luck.

[nini]

36. check out the products here

www.jumpstart.com

If he likes computers these will be fun games that will teach him at the same time.

good luck

[crim son]

37. Yes, the boy is behind and it's time to take action.

My son went half-days to an inexpensive, nonreligious preschool for a year and a half. He, like every kid in his class, knew all his letters and number up to 100 by the time he entered kindergarten, when he was five. When, during kindergarten it was discovered that he was having trouble putting the letters together to form words, he received extra attention. He received this attention through the end of first grade and now as a second grader he's a super reader. Our public schools are performing better than the school you grandson is attending. Take some of the suggestions given by your friends on this board, and act.

[astral]

38. I think you should be concerned but not alarmed.

All the suggestions about getting him teaching aid thingys to use at home are good ideas. Remember Kindergarten
is where he should be in the process of learning these things, and he may be getting the chance to pick some of this stuff up as the year progresses on --- remember, as far as reading and writing stuff goes, different kids 'get it' at different times. Are there educational TV shows on like Sesame Street these days? What does he spend his time at home doing? If he has access to a computer I would think some educational interactive DVD's would be available these days.

But it would be better not to push him to spend too much of his free time 'catching up' academically. Remember, kindergarten is not even required by law, first grade is, and according to Rudolph Steiner (originator of the Waldorf Schools) children do not have the capacity to learn some things properly before the age of 7 (hardening of the teeth or something like that) and too much math before that time is not a good thing for the child. Physical activity outdoors, learning songs that are meaningful, playing with sculpting and art, hearing the religious stories is actually a very good thing for kids that young, as their imaginations are free to 'fill in the blanks,' a much better way to spend time than in front of the Boob Toob.

I remember kindergarten (1965!) having learn to count, and then count for the teacher as far as you can go. With coaching from my mom (who at least could do the minumum stuff with me when required, and who also forced me to memorize my multiplication tables in 4th grade) I learned to count to 100. And I proudly stopped at 100, so the teacher goes, "one hundred and one, one hundred and two, one hundred and three . . . " and I felt totally exasperated --- 100 was Quite Far Enough for Me, Thank You Very Much!!! But there was a kid there who could only make it to ten. I remember well, his name was Albert, and he was highly distressed at his lack of abilities. He probably was perfectly normal, though, just hadn't "got it" yet on counting, probably didn't have a mother to give him a hand at home.

I remember before I 'got it' learning to read in first grade (first of all, the letters were small letters, not capital letters, and I hadn't even learned those yet!) And I colored a picture of a cat red instead of blue (or was it blue instead of red?) and my teacher in a scolding voice said I get a Minus on my paper because I colored the wrong color not the right color.

I couldn't read a damned thing yet. I was so mortified I almost peee'd my pants, and darned near burst into tears. When it 'clicked' and when I 'got it' I no longer had any difficulty with reading or spelling.

Do any of you remember what it was like? At least in my day, they still used phonix to teach reading, so I DID learn how to read in the first grade. It all worked out fine.

[Dinger]

39. I Am Not A Kindergarten Teacher (I Teach 3rd Grade) But If It Was Me . . .

(I will talk to the kindergarten teachers at my school and get back to you on this tomorrow.)

If it was me, I might try some of these things:

1) I'd start with the ABC SONG. No special materials needed.
2) I'd make or buy a set of letter flash cards, with pictures on each card.
3) For time, I might start out with a calendar, and teach days of the week, months (with a theme)
4) From there, I'd get (or make) a clock that my child could use to practice telling time with.
They could draw a picture of things they would do in the morning, afternoon, and evening, and draw a
picture of a clock with a time that would be appropriate.
5) You could try making flashcards showing time on a clock. Make sure kids can recognize numbers
first. You could buy or make some number flashcards too.
6) You could teach one letter a day, and cut picture out of a magazine or paper to go with the
"letter of the day." For example, make ann "A poster," with pictures of antelope, apples, addition,
artwork, etc. glued on it.
7) Make a picture book that tells a story without words. Good pre-reading activity.
See if the child can tell the story back to you (after they have had a chance to hear it several times).

Funbrain.com has some games for all ages of children. Check it out. I know of more good sites if you'd like me to suggest more.


These are just some things off the top of my head, but like I said, I'll talk to the kindergarten teachers in my
district tomorrow, and see if I can give you some better suggestions.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

40. My 2 year old grandson knows most of his alphabet...

My kids were learning the basics from us before they ever got to school.

I can't believe this school is accredited when they're neglecting the children this way. There are plenty of jesus-freak schools out here that teach basic skills, even if they neglect evolution. I'd be mad as hell.

Talk to someone at the local school board about it. They can direct you to the proper authorities.

[Jamastiene]

41. I am none of those things, but I did write backwards,

as in perfect mirror writing, because the teacher told us to go to the opposite side of the page as the hand with our pencils. I'm left handed, so I did as instructed. Luckily, the same teacher figured out my problem and worked with me. They didn't have the ADD diagnosis or any awareness of that back then. I am sure I don't have it though. That teacher turned out to be a great teacher too. In that case, I'm glad she learned from her simple mistake and I learned how to write so people could read it without holding it up to a mirror.

It sounds like your grandson is getting shafted in school. He should have long since learned his ABC's and his numbers. I'd recommend taking that problem to the school board. That teacher needs to be sent back to Sunday school and a new teacher needs to come in and teach him. Better yet, it sounds like he'd be better off in plain old public school. If his mother won't do that, maybe you could recommend another school so he can begin learning his basics.

[borlis]

48. Yes, you should be alarmed.

I have 3 kids and they knew all of their ABC's and numbers before they went to Kindergarten. If your Grandson went to pre-school, he should have been learning it then. Most kids today learned what my generation learned in Kindergarten, in pre-school. Is your daughter at all concerned? My kids could also read before Kindergarten which was early, but I do know that most kids can read or begin to read by the end of Kindergarten. My 4 year old son is beginning to write his name and loves to use our refrigerator magnets to spell out all kinds of words. Stores like Target have all kinds of work books available. Also maybe make some or buy some ABC flashcards. Good Luck! :hi:

[Radio_Lady]

49. Thanks, Borlis. My daughter is kind of oblivious to all of this.

She has rationalized her position with her children all the way from day care through kindergarten. This is the second child to come through this school, and both were, in my estimation, severely deprived of a lot of exposure to reading readiness. They know all about the religious holidays, they know prayers in another language, they have a lot of pressure on them to perform in accordance with their religion... but it's painfully obvious that they have not had as much reading readiness as they might have had in another school.

I've sounded off until I am blue in the face, but it is getting me NOWHERE. All I can do is encourage both children to think for themselves. Neither of them is swallowing what their mother is saying to them... and I have to hope that this little boy will not be too far off when he gets to first grade.

BY THE WAY, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN TOLD NOT TO MEDDLE... THAT I MADE MISTAKES WITH MY OWN CHILDREN AND IT'S TIME FOR THEM TO MAKE THEIR OWN MISTAKES WITH THEIR CHILDREN, ETC. ETC.

I'm sick to death of my daughter and her stubborn ways. All I can say is that one other grandchild, a boy who is six months YOUNGER than my granddaughter although still in third grade, cuddled with me in his bed in Orlando, and read me parts of "Treasure Island" without hesitation! Big words and small words -- nothing stopped him. That child had preschool and public kindergarten (not parochial), and a mother and father who only went to high school, but they worked with Leapfrog learning products.

Then again... maybe most of it is inborn -- who knows?

[Haole Girl]

50. I hope you've gotten the help you need Radio_Lady..

..may I just add something (and forgive me if it has been addressed already)? Make sure your grandson has his hearing and eyesight tested thoroughly before beginning 1st grade. Good luck...I hope he catches up soon! :hug:

[Radio_Lady]

56. Thanks, KC2. Meanwhile, this child is warm and loving to us -- for as

long as that lasts. I am sure they will have him tested and I will mention that cautiously to my daughter.

Appreciate all these comments.

In peace,

Radio_Lady in (WINDY AND STORMY) Oregon

PS. Another shot at the previous photo. What's not to love and want the best for here?

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

65. Have you tried beating him?

That's how my Grandpa helped my dad learn during his childhood, and now he seems like a pretty bright guy!

Just tell him to read my post

Alphabet is ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
We use a base 10 number system, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc
We break the day into 24 hours, AM/PM 12 hours in each, 60 minutes in each hour, 60 seconds per minute.

There ya go problem solved, no need for thanks, I feel sufficently rewarded for having a positive impact on youth knowing that I'm contributing to their education and having a big impact on their life.

:sarcasm: ... hehe sorry, I don't have any good advice.

[Ms_Dem_Meanor]

66. Are you serious???

He should have learned the A B C's and his numbers by the time he was (at the earliest) 3 or 4. My daughter learned this plus telling time and spelling her entire name way before she hit kindergarten. If he is old enough to recite bible versuses, cartoons, movies, and songs that he may hear on TV or the radio, he should know the fundamentals. Get him some activity books from the dollar store or some learning videos and he will pick up these things in no time. Have him learn something for at least a half hour a day, everyday.:wtf:

[Mad_Dem_X]

67. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. You all need to CHILL. What is this, Japan?

When I was in kindergarten in the 1950s, I KNOW we didn't do any letters or numbers till spring, and it was never high pressure, just incidental learning in the form of songs and games. We learned to write our names and the numbers from 1 to 10, but that was it. I can't say it hurt me any, since I ended up with a Ph.D. from an Ivy League school.

About thirty years ago, UK schools experimented with teaching children to read at age 5. After a few years, they did comparative studies and found that any advantage the early readers had was gone by age 10. Some countries in Europe--I think that includes the Scandinavian countries and Russia--don't teach reading until age 7.

Furthermore, there's a whole private school movement, the Waldorf Schools, which takes a very relaxed attitude about learning to read but seems to produce excellent results.

I think that delaying reading is less harmful than pushing it onto a child who isn't developmentally ready, which is apparently happening a lot these days. I'd shudder to see the U.S. becoming like Japan in this regard.

I like the suggestions about teaching the alphabet song and doing number games, but keep it low pressure, for heaven's sake.

Look at the older kids in your grandson's school. Are they illiterate? If not, don't worry. If there's fundie indoctrination going on, that's more worrisome, but I'd just relax about the academic side of it. If he can't read by the end of first grade, then you've got something to worry about.

[Mad_Dem_X]

69. I could read and write before Kindergarten

I think every child should know his/her ABC's by Kindergarten, as well as their address and phone number. These are things parents need to be teaching.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

70. Yeah, so did I know my address and phone number

but as far as reading is concerned, there's no harm in waiting with that.

[driver8]

72. Things are much different, now.

I have a daughter in pre-school who will start Kindergarten next year. Most kids can read by the time they start Kindergarten.

This kid is going to get left behind and will have to struggle to catch up with everyone else.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

75. So what? It's not a race, you know

It's about the child setting out on the path that matches his or her talents and personality the best.

If the rest of the kids in school are going at the same pace, no problem.

I'd rather have a kid who didn't learn to read until seven and absolutely loved to read, rather than a kid who learned to read at four and hated it. The latter may get good test scores but will remain an ignoramus and trendoid all his/her life. The former may not keep up with the Joneses but will love learning all his/her life and will find the best path for himself/herself, not the path that social pressures dictate.

Maintain an enriched home environment with lots of books and music, and encourage whatever interests you see budding in the child.

I don't have kids, but I think that if I did, the other parents, with their poisonous combination of achievement-pushing and helicopter-hovering (a combination that has created so many emotional basket cases in Japan), as well as the sizable minority who let their kids boss them around, would drive me nuts.

[driver8]

77. No, you are right. It's not a race.

But if this kid wants to read and is not being given the opportunity, that's not right either.

Both my wife and I love to read and have always read to our kids. My daughter pretty much taught herself to read with just a little coaching from us. It doesn't sound like this kid was given the chance to discover if he liked books or not. In my opinion, the pressure that will be placed on him to learn to read when he is so far behind will be awful. That won't be fun, either.

These parents are not doing this kid any favors.

[driver8]

78. One more thing...

This is from the original post:

I am furious! Our granddaughter went to the same parochial school and entered public first grade way behind other children. She had to struggle to catch up with reading and it was first blamed on her vision. Then they thought it was the teacher at this same school. The only thing that has changed is -- there is another teacher and she assured the parents that they would "do better" with our grandson!

-------

The grandson is going to have to struggle as well. The grandson will be placed in the "special group". How fun for the kid do you think it will be for him to think that he isn't as smart as the other kids? Do you think kids like to be "different" at that age?

Achievement pushing is one thing...neglect is another. The needs of this child are being neglected.

[wickerwoman]

85. I totally hear where you're coming from Lydia

but I also think there's a really big danger in a kid falling so far behind in such an essential skill as reading that they become discouraged and learn to hate school before they've even really started it. My brother basically dropped out in everything but body by second grade because he was so discouraged at always being at the bottom of his class. He had severe insomnia through most of high school due to stress and only very recently, at age 27, has been able to get himself back into a classroom for a subject that he really loves. But his self-esteem is totally shot and manifests itself in really hateful anti-intellectualism.

I don't think a six year old should be drilled, but he should definitely be exposed to a lot of low pressure learning games that encourage reading- there are billions of them out there.

I sometimes sub in a kindergarten where five year olds are already learning cursive. And none of them seem to hate reading or be particularly miserable.

[JVS]

71. Telling time was done in 2nd grade for my class

Letters and numbers we knew in kindergarten

[Bridget Burke]

73. One very small correction. The kid is NOT going to "parochial" school.

Parochial schools are Catholic. And Catholic schools are pretty good at teaching--with religion on the side. (Not that I think any private schools should get voucher money.)

Sounds as though you have a real problem. No ground-breaking suggestions, but the informal teaching options mentioned might help. (And possibly look into the school's accreditation--if that matters in your state.)

[greatauntoftriplets]

81. Thanks for pointing that out.

My sister is the principal of a Catholic grade school and her school is far more desirable to those in her working-class neighborhood to the public schools, at least for those who can afford it.

[Radio_Lady]

82. Bridget, Merriam-Webster defines "parochial school" in a more general way. I researched this before

I posted. The school is both private and parochial. See below:

This is not a Catholic school, but it is affiliated with a religious group.

I have chosen not to name the group, because this would cause some to feel there is bigotry afoot in the DU. It would also allow others to surmise what school it is within this community. Thank you very much for your comments.

parochial school
2 entries found for parochial.
To select an entry, click on it.
parochial school

Main Entry: parochial school
Function: noun
:a private school maintained by a religious body usually for elementary and secondary instruction


parochial
2 entries found for parochial.
To select an entry, click on it.
parochialparochial school

See parochial itself defined in #3:

Main Entry: pa·ro·chi·al
Pronunciation: p&-'rO-kE-&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English parochiall, from Anglo-French parochial, from Late Latin parochialis, from parochia parish -- more at PARISH
1 : of or relating to a church parish
2 : of or relating to a parish as a unit of local government
3 : confined or restricted as if within the borders of a parish : limited in range or scope (as to a narrow area or region) : PROVINCIAL, NARROW
- pa·ro·chi·al·ly /-kE-&-lE/ adverb

[Bridget Burke]

87. In the USA, common usage identifies "parochial" with Catholic

So, at least, call that hive of ignorance a Protestant Parochial School. There's plenty of anti-Catholic bigotry afoot here, too. (Says someone who hasn't attended Mass since before they dropped Latin.)

I agree that definition #3 applies in your case. Adding "Protestant" is certainly unfair to the many fine Protestant places of learning. And "School" doesn't seem accurate, either.

Edited to add: Perhaps "Hive of Ignorance" is the most accurate name! (Although this might anger some beekeepers.)

[Radio_Lady]

88. Bridget, I have now sent you two PMs about this post.

I have no desire to get into a flame war over my correct use of a word.

End of story.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[cwydro]

74. Don't they even

READ to the child...?

[Radio_Lady]

79. All the time.

[grace0418]

76. I learned to read at 3. And while that's pretty young, certainly by age six

this child should be able to at least read a few things. That is positively alarming, and she is doing your grandson a diservice that will plague him for years. I'm really sorry Radio Lady. Although all the suggestions were great and will help, the time that child is in school sounds like it's being utterly wasted.

[bicentennial_baby]

80. I learned to read at 3 1/2...By 6, I was at least 2 grades ahead...

Yikes...he needs to be in a real school, and fast... :o

[Nikia]

83. Has he been tested for learning disabilties?

Many children with dyslexia are above average intelligence. They have trouble with reading, however. Many schools, both private and public, don't do a good job dealing with children with this problem.

[Ms_Dem_Meanor]

86. I agree with you

at some point this child should have been tested to see at what level he is academically when he was enrolled for school. That way if he does have a learning disability it can be taken care of appropriately.

[Sequoia]

89. I'd get him out of there.

I know a mother who sends her kids to a place like this and the boy, who's around 8 or 9 can hardly read now. Extra goodies...more like brain washing. Religon has it's place and while Christians schools do this the most important thing is for the children to learn.

[Radio_Lady]

90. Sequoia, thanks for your post. I can't get him out of there. I'm the grandparent,

not the parent, and my daughter and son-in-law think the school is fine.

I've taken a lot of the suggestions on this thread, and written them down to refer to when the time is right. Perhaps I will get some more time for remediation when he is out of school in the summer.

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[CaliforniaPeggy]

91. Locking

Per the OP's request.

Respectfully submitted,
CaliforniaPeggy
DU Moderator