Should I tell off my angry alcoholic college "friends"? If so, how?

[Alexander]

Since I'm resolved to quit socializing with just about every alcoholic loser I know here at ASU, and make some new, non-drunk idiot friends, I would like a tiny bit of advice on how to do it.

If I stop talking to them, it'll avoid confrontation, sure, but I feel like I do enough of that already. Not only that, none of these people will understand why, just that "he doesn't like me" or something. I would like to make my intentions clear to these clowns, that they all drink to excess, all the time, that their perception of the world is severely distorted, that they get into verbal and physical fights with ease, and that I don't feel like hanging around these bad, immature vibes and even worse behavioral patterns.

On the other hand, telling them off will likely piss them off, and I don't necessarily want their last impression of me to be a pissed off one. I'd like them to have my reasons stuck in their head, rather than anger towards me. Then again, part of the reason I'm saying good-bye to these clowns is because I feel like I must tread lightly whenever I hang out with them, as the slightest misstep or bad choice of words whips them into a fury.

I haven't exactly berated and told anyone off before, and I hope some DUers - including those with real-life experience - can give me a little bit of advice on how best to handle telling people "I don't want to hang out, because you are an obnoxious drunk".

[MissMillie]

1. Some confrontations are not worth having

and I think this is one of them. I don't know that "telling them off" is going to do anyone any good. In fact, if they're the type that gets drunk and gets into physical altercations, then you may actually end up getting hurt.

I say walk away and let it go.

[Richardo]

2. I'd just avoid them until one of them asks why...

...then you'll know someone's listening. You can be very calm and rational. And it may very well stick. But if not, at least you didn't have a confrontational piss-off session.

(I'd try for one-on-one if possible.)

If they never ask, then they don't give a shit whether you're there or not.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. You sound self-righteous in the post.

I can't imagine it'd sound any better in person. Just walk away. In fact, that you feel the need to tell them off seems rather self-righteous in and of itself, especially since you're not doing this from any sense of empathy whatsoever (ie, you're not trying to help them, just tell them you're too good to hang out with them).

It's their choice, their consequences. Leave them be.

[Alexander]

9. You sound insulting in your post.

Maybe you'd get a better idea if you understood where I'm coming from.

-This guitarist I met about a year ago seemed cool and reasonable, and is a decent musician. I'm a piano player, so when I bring my keyboard over, we would occasionally jam. Every single time we do this, he stops playing just so he can criticize the way I play (he has no clue how to play piano). I've tried to gently make the point that I know what I'm doing, but he then has a tantrum and demands we stop until he can "teach" me how to play right. Now, my playing was good enough for 10 years of lessons and recitals, the Interlochen music school in Michigan, and nobody else has ever complained about my playing.

*Not only that, this lovely fellow handles any slight disagreement, whether it's over politics (we agree politically), taste in movies or music, or whatever, to getting physically in someone's face and screaming at them to "shut the fuck up" and so forth. He guzzles rum on a constant basis, probably drives drunk almost as much, and I don't think I've ever seen him sober - although it took me a bit to figure all this out, since he tries to hide it.

-I called up this photography major I met when I first came here, to catch up on old times and see what he's up to. Not only is he a self-confessed alcoholic, but he lives with roommates who are as well. He invited me over to his place a few nights ago to hang out and have a good time - except I found that there was a lot of latent hostility at that house, nobody could get along, and once everyone was wasted, they all got into huge fights, some of them physical. I walked outside and sat on my car for most of the night. I thought he had changed and grown up by this point, but unfortunately it seems he hasn't.

-A former roommate of mine had serious anger management problems, screaming, getting red-faced, stealing stuff (and then putting it back and telling people about it) and throwing temper tantrums whenever things didn't go his way. Our other roommate is perhaps the most relaxed and easy-going person on earth, and this guy even yelled and screamed at HIM. He asked if I wanted to get another place with him, and I managed to tell him "no" without telling him why. His favorite motto is "beer is so much more than a breakfast drink" and while I used to see him rather sober and pleasant, these days he's always imbibing huge bottles of beer, and everything I've seen suggests his anger problems and his drinking are related.

-Another guy I know doesn't drink so much, instead he's more of a middle-man for weed hookups. He is constantly insulting and disrespectful towards everyone, and gets morally self-righteous and hypocritical regarding just about every social topic. He still IMs and calls me - God knows why - trying to get me to get drugs through him, and any time I indicated I wanted to quit or even cut back, he suggests that I'm weak and that he "can handle it", and gets even more obnoxious. He thinks he's popular, well-liked and necessary for people - when in fact he's none of the above, and unless I tell him off he'll keep trying to convince me to buy drugs.

These people - were some of my "best" friends, in that their desire to socialize with me wasn't conditional on me getting shit-faced, doing drugs, etc. But they've become something much different, and much uglier - and hanging out with them just isn't fun any more.

Maybe you'd like all the facts, before you go making assumptions, next time?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. Where, exactly, did I blame you for their behavior?

I'd love for you to cite that.

Alls I'm saying is, you're not doing a damn thing to help the problem. Further, I don't even dispute your decision to not be friends with them - it's probably the right thing to do. But you STILL don't sound like you're interested in helping them and shoving it in their face that they're not good enough for you isn't solving the problem either.

Your college campus is very likely to have support services for alcohol abuse. Ever think about using those? Ever think about NOT gently bringing up the issue with them and flat out telling them they need help? Those are actions that you'd take if you were anywhere near serious about trying to get help for them. But you're not, which is fine. It's not at all your responsibility to take care of them. You're almost definitely better off by just walking away.

So why do you feel the need to do so in such a dramatic fashion? It makes no sense whatsoever. It's like the people who make the annoying "Good bye, DU" threads that air their grievances about what's wrong with DU. They don't really give a shit, they're just trying to make themselves look better by doing so.

But you know what? You do whatever you want. I'm not apologizing for anything and I'm not backtracking on anything I said. We can dance circles around this, but it's not going anywhere.

[Alexander]

25. Suggesting I haven't tried to help them, when in reality it's all I've done so far.

In the end, they have to make the decision to help themselves. And they simply refuse to do so.

There's only so much drunken drama I can take before I decide it's just not worth it any more. I was in a long and crippling depression here that I've only recently been able to get out of - I don't need people with drinking problems trying to make me feel worse about myself.

What I am suggesting is being direct - not too different than what you suggest - and saying something along the lines of "If you can get a handle on this, I'll stick around". But in every case, they've understood not only my concerns but the concerns of others, and ignored them.

Sure, if and when I talk to these individuals, I'll hold out the possibility that we can remain friends. However, their past reaction to anyone bringing up their drinking problems has been completely hostile and defensive - hence my pessimistic attitude towards maintaining a friendship with this crew.

I'm not doing this for the drama - I'm doing this so they will seek help. But from past experience with these same people, any mention of their drinking problem - or even the possibility of one - sends them into a flying defensive rage. Rinse, repeat, etc. I am 90% certain anything I tell them will have the same result, but these are my friends and dammit, I want them to get help. So instead of leaving and not saying why, I'd rather state my concerns, let them get angry, use their own anger to prove my point, and then walk away.

Maybe they'll get the idea, maybe they won't. But it's the best thing I can think of at this point.

[Phillycat]

4. Only say something if they ask.

As a recovering alcoholic, I'd say you'd be talking to a pissed off, potentially dangerous wall if you initiate an agressive conversation. OTOH, if one of them calmly asks you what happened, you could equally calmly explain your reasoning above. It's good for people with alcohol problems for people to tell them that their drinking is bothersome.

[Richardo]

6. janesez is teh r0xx0r!!11!

:thumbsup:

[Phillycat]

7. No, YOU are!

:D

[ghostsofgiants]

5. I know that feling.

But I agree with the rest, probably better not to make a scene. Just ignore them. If they care enough to ask, tell them why. If not, fuck them.

[WilliamPitt]

8. How about

"I'm taking a break from the booze. Gonna do some detox."

[Alexander]

11. Thanks Will, that's a good idea, but I tried that already...

It doesn't resonate. Nobody seems to get the hint, and they just pretend like I never said it, and continue with their destructive lifestyles.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

23. "and continue with their destructive lifestyles."

uh huh. oh no youre not trying to change them are you?! that aint happenin!

[Alexander]

26. Nope, I'm trying not to join in self-destruction.

Very few of their activities are done sober or without heavy consumption of alcohol. I don't want to change them - I couldn't even if I wanted to, and even I drink every now and again, in moderation. However, I don't need to be around to watch my friends slowly kill themselves and alienate everyone they know, either.

[smirkymonkey]

34. Tell them that you are a recovering alcoholic and that you feel that

if you continue to hang out with them, your sobriety will be threatened. That way, you make it about you and not them (even though it is about them.)

Trust me, you are not going to get them to change thier behavior and they will only resent it if you try. (I have some experience with this.)

[Alexander]

36. That would be lying - I've never been an alcoholic.

I've been drunk plenty of times, and I'll still drink a bit, but I never feel like I need a drink, I often go for days, weeks and even months on end without a drop, and the hardest amount of partying I ever did was getting hammered 3 nights in one week.

Most people who know me, know this.

[smirkymonkey]

40. No, I am not saying you ARE one, just use it as an excuse.

You seem very defensive about the whole drinking thing.

[Alexander]

44. My father was an alcoholic - that's probably where defensiveness comes from.

He isn't anymore - I sat him down and had a heart-to-heart, and he's since cut back a great deal on his drinking. I haven't seen him drunk in years. I'm proud of him.

I think a large part of the success, though, was that I am his son, and he didn't want me to have any reason to abandon or not be around him in his old age.

Forgive me if my tone seems defensive - although I still drink, I've seen too many stupid, angry, and belligerent actions taken by people who've had a few brews.

I used to smoke weed, though I've since quit, and frankly, I'd rather all the alcoholics in the world turned into potheads.

It all seems like such harmless fun until some wanker goes and destroys something or hurts somebody.

[smirkymonkey]

45. It's good that you see that and don't want to go down the same

path. I can understand now why it upsets you so much - I am sure you probably had a tough time growing up with an alcoholic parent. It's great that your father has stopped drinking so much too.

I think maybe part of the reason you are so upset by these boozehounds at your school is that the bring up some bad (perhaps repressed) memories and you are reacting to the feeling you had when you were younger. Most alcoholics, even if they aren't fall down drunks, are generally pretty unreliable and selfish so you might be seeing the same dynamics all over again and it's making you angry.

Try to find some friends who can have fun in more constructive ways, without drinking and by expanding your circle you might find that your lesser companions will just fall by the wayside without any effort on your part. Good luck and good for you for recognizing how destructive heavy drinking can be on a person's life.

[WilliamPitt]

41. You're only responsible for yourself

You can't, and shouldn't, try to be a one-man rehab clinic.

[driver8]

10. I wouldn't say anything...just walk away.

Find some new friends and if the old "friends" ask where you've been, just tell them that you've been really busy.

I don't think you owe them any explanation.

[Pithlet]

43. This is the best advice, IMO

Even without problems like alcoholism, sometimes friends just drift apart. No excuse is needed or owed either way.

[CabalPowered]

13. Develop a liver problem ASAP

*wink wink*

[SteppingRazor]

14. So ... you're angry about the excessive drinking of college students...

at one of the biggest party schools in the country?

Hmmm... I guess I can't really offer much advice. Being a pretty active embiber myself, it'd be hypocritical to denounce these fellows.

It sounds to me, though, like you need a better-quality drunkard. Mean drunks are degenerate swine. They place somewhere just above That Guy Who Pisses Himself on the list of actively hated drunkards. Rather than abandon yourself to the teetotaling embrace of the permanently boring, I suggest finding a group of mates who accept alcohol for the delightful social lubricant it should be, rather than the liquid-courage-to-start-a-fight that your current crop of pals seem to.

[Lilith Velkor]

20. BLASPHEMY! All drunks are evil!

They just need to sit in rooms and be told they will surely die for not worshipping the right god, the right way. It doesn't matter if you are an asshole as long as you're sober! :sarcasm:

[Alexander]

27. Are you suggesting I said anything remotely close to that?

:wtf:

[Lilith Velkor]

33. No

But I will suggest that you should not try to teach a pig to sing, as they say, let alone a whole styful of 'em.

[reyd reid reed]

15. I've found that telling people off usually isn't very satisfiying...

it tends to be more frustrating than anything else, especially if they don't see a problem with their behavior. Most people don't or they wouldn't be behaving like that in the first place. And if they're a drunk, you're fighting a losing battle before you even start. I'd just walk away. In the end, you'll maintain both your sanity and your dignity.

Good luck.


:hug:

[Kali]

17. There are non-drunk idiots as Ass-U? Wow. Things have changed since I went there.

[Porcupine]

19. Schedule yourself elsewhere. Then be busy.

When the drunks/druggies call say "hey i'm busy doing....." If they want to join in say "This isn't the kind of thing you can be drunk for."

If they ask you to come over reply with "are you drinking? Then no." They will lie and tell you that no, they are not planning on drinking. When the first beer leaves the refriegerator excuse yourself and walk out the door.

I admit it's harder to keep sober friends in a chemically saturated culture but there are pockets of people who maintian. Find them.

[Dora]

21. If leaving the friendships is about your needs, keep it that way.

In other words, if they don't ask for criticism, don't go handing it to them. That's bullying and self-righteous.

If you need different friends, then seek them, and leave the other friends alone. If somebody wants to know why you're not hanging out any more, then tell them you're busy. If somebody asks, "Did I do something to make you not want to be my friend any more?" only then would your criticism be welcome. And even then, you would be well-advised to temper your message with kindness and love.

[idgiehkt]

22. I wouldn't confront

Don't make yourself a target. Just always be busy or have other plans, they'll get the hint eventually. In another situation I might agree that confrontation would be best, but it sounds like you might be staging a mini-intervention on them with hope, however small, for some change on their behalf and I can just about guarantee that it isn't going to happen. They will alter their behavior when the consequences become too painful, and not before, plus my fear is that it will somehow make you a target for retaliation somehow...being that you aren't going to bring about any change in them I wouldn't waste my breath. I'd just slowly drift apart from them, eventually they will get the message.

[Blue Diadem]

24. No need to tell them off, just find other friends

Some people choose to do a lot of drinking during their college years, others don't. If their behavior really bothers you and interferes with your friendship, just find some new friends who are less likely to exhibit that behavior.

By the way, chances are if you tell them they're an obnoxious drunk their behavior won't change. They'll either grow out of it or they won't..but they have to do that on their own.

[ikojo]

28. It;'s not worth the anxiety and ill feelings

it will cause. Are there non alcohol focused things you can do with these friends?


Have you considered transferring to a less party oriented school? Are you more academically inclined?

[graywarrior]

29. First of all..don't make judgements. No one can determine whether or not

someone else is an alcoholic, even if they exhibit all the signs. It's up to them to decide.

Second, keep the focus on your own self. In other words, mind your own business. You don't want to drink? Fine. But don't think your enlightenment will impress any of your friends.

Humility is the best way to handle your recent spiritual awakening. And be careful....another drinkie winkie could be right around the corner for all of us.

Besides all that, congratulations for realizing that maybe you don't need alcohol in your life. I wish you a good life.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

30. Just stop talking to them.

And if they come by or call, just be honest. It's time to grow up, and stop being drunk all the time. You're done with it, and if they get pissed, they're not really your friends. It's cool when you're a freshman to party all the time, but when you're a senior, it's time to quit.
Duckie

[pitohui]

31. how old are you?

if you are 50, you should have told off your alcoholic loser college friends years ago

if you are still in college, not so much, plenty of those guys are not alcoholic losers, they are limits testing and will end up being folks you want to know later

get away from booze if you need to, you are wise to know yourself, but pick your battles

if you have never berated or told anyone off before, then you are a decent person and DON'T change

[Alexander]

32. 23, and close to graduation

I probably won't ever see these guys again unless I really want to, so in the long run it really doesn't matter what I do.

The people of which I speak are all 21+, and have been drinking/partying for several years now.

I'm not knocking alcohol - I still drink beer and wine on occasion. But not to get drunk, and certainly not constantly, like these guys do.

[pitohui]

35. then be chill

you don't need to be their mother, just go your own way

i think you are very wise, but these dudes ain't ready for wisdom from the sound of it

jesus had a comment that might apply, something about "pearls before swine"

save your pearls for those who appreciate

[Redstone]

37. Just walk away. The fuck you care what they think?

Redstone

[WCGreen]

38. Tell 'em the truth....

The drinking is getting out of hand and you feel uncomfortable around them....

[GoddessOfGuinness]

39. Telling them off won't do anything.

Just avoid them. Surely there are interesting people there that don't drink....

[Ariana Celeste]

42. Telling them off will just make you look like an asshole.

Tell them they need help, and be sincere about it, or don't tell them anything. If they have a problem, you're telling them off isn't going to help anything, and it's an absolute asshole thing to do. besides if you feel this way about them you probably aren't a very good friend to them anyways.

[BlueIris]

46. #1, Cut. #2, Push. #3, Don't cave.

Addicts don't quit until they want to and yours don't sound like they want to. You can't "be friends" with an addict. Just cut all ties. Quit socializing with 'em, and run. If you need to reinforce this decision, just remember this post. Better now, than say, three years from now, when you may find out you can't have kids and your partner abandons you and you need to get one of your old college "pals" on the phone just to vent, and they can't because they're too busy off getting plastered.

[MadMaddie]

47. You know what .....you will eventually drift away from them

in a natural process...it happens...you don't have to confront them....you become busy doing other things they become busy doing their things...it just happens...

Don't sweat it...it's happened to everyone at some point in their life...