Please help! I need opinions! I am so mad I could punch a hole in my wall!

[borlis]

My son is in 8th grade. There is another 8th grade boy that has been bullying him since last year. It doesn't happen very often, just three times, but I am really irritated and don't know what to do. It started last year when he pulled my sons shorts down at recess. The second time last year was when the same kid paid another kid $1 to pull his shorts down again. Then today, my son tells me that when he was playing soccer at recess today, a different kid came charging across the school yard and tackled him for no reason at all. Later today, my son found out that the kid who tackled him today was paid $1 to do it by the same kid that bugged him last year. The other thing is that when he was tackled, he hurt his knee a little which really sucks because he has a basketball tryout tomorrow. There is a playground supervisor out there buy I swear they don't do anything. My son is BEGGING me not to go to the Principal. When I told him this kid has to be stopped, he said "I knew I shouldn't have told you." He is afraid that the kid will just deny it and that it will make him get picked on more because he told his Mommy. I totally see his point and agree with him. And I don't want to lose his trust so he doesn't tell me anything anymore. But part of me wants to tell on him because I want him to get in trouble. The school district brags about the No Bullying policy that they have and I would like to see it enforced. The other thing that puzzles me is that this kid barely knows my son. They have never even had a class together in all 3 years of middle school. We have heard plenty about this kid's family troubles and my son usually stays clear of kids like this. Yet, this kid is part of the "cool popular crowd" which I totally can't understand. Who would like a kid like this? What should I do? :banghead:

[evlbstrd]

1. Oh, shit.

I've been through that. I have no good advice to offer, as my ex and I could never get on the same page, and the school wouldn't do anything. Sorry.

[jobycom]

2. Tough choice. I'll just say this. Bullies depend on the fear of their victims

Bullies expect the kids to stay silent, and the parents to stay silent, out of fear of being ridiculed and/or beaten up. Seems like the three choices are to tell someone in authority, teach your son to beat up the other kid, or let it continue.

[EFerrari]

8. Bullies also seem to seek out kids who have some kind of limitation

in their social skills development -- because they're more vulnerable and less likely to counter the bullying effectively.

[txindy]

102. They also seek out the ones of whom they're jealous, too.

And I wonder if that isn't the case here.

[borlis]

11. I gave him my permission to throw a punch. However,

this kid is about 6' tall already and my son is only about 5'4". I have seen this kid and he is a lot bigger than mine.

[angry_chuck]

20. the guy who

taught me martial arts was 5'5 130 lbs maybe and he could whoop a**. He took down three men, two 6'2 or so and like 200 lbs. That was a sight to see.

[lcordero2]

27. I was in his shoes before

still have the scars on my forehead for headbutting the teeth out of the mouth. How good is your son's conditioning as compared to the other kid?

[borlis]

143. I haven't seen this kid in a while, but he is 6' and plays on our

town's coveted travel football team. I am not sure how good he is, but he is a huge kid. My son plays baseball and hasn't played now for a month, so he may be a bit out of shape at the moment. Bottom line: I think this kid could beat the crap out of my son.

[Lars39]

31. OK. My 2 cents:

Call the principal, tell him what has occurred. Make it plain that you just want them to observe, no hauling both kids into the office at the same time wanting the bully to 'confess', or anything like that. They should be able to discreetly quiz your son about the situation, unless they are completely ham-fisted. If the principal makes light of you and your son's concerns,climb right over his/her head to the superintendent.
If they can't handle this situation without even more grief coming down on your kid's head,then they need to be re-trained.

[Xithras]

62. Doesn't work that way anymore.

We live in the days of zero tolerance. If a bullying report comes in, they're going to haul the kids out of class and grill them like criminals. If the allegations are substantiated, the bully will be thrown out of school for a few days.

Schools don't do subtle anymore. That all died with Columbine and the implementation of Zero Tolerance One Strike You're Out school rules. Every threat of physical violence now warrants a police call, bringing a nail file to school often results in an automatic expulsion, and bullies are yanked and tossed without hesitation. It doesn't matter that every objective analysis rates these as the 100% WRONG way to deal with the problems. Parents demanded that schools do "something" after Columbine, and this is what we got stuck with. The new reality sucks.

[Shine]

136. Frankly, I think Zero Tolerance is a good thing.

gotta nip that shit in the bud.

[TheMadMonk]

58. Teach your kid to "stop punch"

Essentially drop to one knee and put one's shoulder behind a hit to the solar plexus (or to the pubic arch if feeling particularly pissed).

Alternately, if your kid's got the chutzpah (and a pair of budgie smugglers) ref: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=budgie+smugglers. He could simply step out of his shorts and walk away. That should be worth immediate plus points with his peers. And when a teacher wants to know what's going on, he replies, "Someone wanted my shorts more than I did." If an audience is present, he might add: "Perhaps they had an 'accident'."

More Chutzpah: After the next incident, front the bully in company and tell him: "Give me 50 cents and I'll dak myself. Then you can afford to get your nut twice as often."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

125. LOL!

I like your approach--non-violent but bold.

[Cruzan]

59. Another vote for having your son beat up the other kid

Knock him down, give him a black eye, make him feel a little pain, but above all HUMILIATE HIM by doing it in front of others and showing he won't be fucked with anymore. It's the only way to stop a bully. The resulting psychic effect will be life changing for them both. Your son will have immeasurably greater confidence and learn he doesn't have to be the fated victum and the other kid will learn there are consequences to stepping beyond social bounds.

Enroll your son in an appropriate martial arts school if his defense skills need improvement. Doing that alone will greatly show him that you do indeed understand what he's going through and know how to help. If he doesn't actually come out and say it, certainly he will instead now feel inside that he's glad he told you what's been happening.

[Xithras]

61. Even if he loses the fight, the bullying may end.

Bullies depend on their victims being docile. When I was a freshman in high school, a bully singled me out as a target. I took it for a few weeks, but got tired of it one day and took a swing at him. I ended up getting my arse kicked, but I stood up for myself and got in several very solid blows. A few days later he started to bully me again, and I got right up in his face and made it obvious that we'd be coming to blows again if he didn't back off.

He did back off. Even though he probably would have kicked my arse again, I wasn't worth the effort to him. He wasn't willing to fight me every day just to bully me, so he walked away (and presumably found another victim).

[Frank Cannon]

65. Yep. Bullies look for the easiest targets.

There's always someone smaller or weaker around who won't fight back. The trick is not to be that person.

[JacksonWest]

112. I agree.

While violence isn't always the answer...if he stands up to the bully, and throws a punch-the bully will eventually stop. Of course, there is the chance that your son will be severely beaten. In the end, if they do get into a fight, it will come to the Principals attention, and the bully will be dealt with.

If you do speak with the school, don't tell your son, and keep it as low key as possible.

[jobycom]

69. Frankly, I included that option thinking it was obviously the wrong choice.

I wouldn't teach my kid to settle issues with violence, and unlike the movies, a kid who's not used to fighting in real life isn't going to win that fight. He'll just get beat up more.

Plus, it sounds like the other kid isn't attacking him directly, which would make it harder to fight him.

Have you called the other kid's parents?

[borlis]

144. I don't think the parents would do anything.

They have real problems at their house from what I have heard. The Dad has hit the Mom in front of the kids. So if the Dad doesn't respect the Mom in front of the kids, the kids also then think it's ok to treat Mom like shit. As I mentioned in other posts here, this kid has pulled a knife on his Mom and she didn't do anything about it. The Dad was arrested 2X over the summer for writing himself false prescriptions on stolen prescription pads. I think the Dad is addicted to some drug one of the kids is on for ADD or ADHD. So the last I heard the Dad is on house arrest. The Mom just went back to work. They have 2 other, younger boys who are also bordering "out of control" from what I hear.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. The school needs to end it.

A 5' 4" kid can't physically intimidate a 6 footer who surrounds himself with cut-rate hit men.

You and your son need to talk to the principal.

I've been on both sides.

Your son, other kids at school and the hit men are all harmed by allowing this to continue.

[donsu]

105. agree - if the principal won't do anything tell them you will go to

schoolboard. demand your rights.

let other parents know.

talk to the bully's parents.

the best protection for your kid is to let the sun shine on the bully, school officials and bully's family.

[AngryAmish]

113. Tell your kid top use a bat

I was a little guy and that was a great equalizer.

[gully]

3. Pay another kid $5 bucks to kick the bullies ass.

*ehem*

[jobycom]

4. I remember that movie! nt

[walldude]

79. My Bodyguard.... a classic n/t

[FogerRox]

9. I got beat up and picked on untill one day in 4th grade

I spun on a bully and gave him a right hook that put him right on his ass.

[gully]

42. That works.

: )

[EFerrari]

5. I'd ask friends if there's anyone at the district office that they know.

See if you can find a safe person - someone who won't trample all over your son's concerns but who can help.

This must be awful for your son and for you. Good luck to you.

[DesEtoiles]

6. Be at the bully's house when he gets home, talking to his mom

[gully]

7. In all seriousness. My friend had a situation like this and he called the

school principal and explained the situation in full. From that point the school teachers/staff watched very carefully and tried to catch the bully in the act. That way no one was outed for "tattling" and to my understanding the situation resolved?

[BlooInBloo]

12. Some sort of "anonymous tip" - even if faux - does seem promising....

... as long as it's clear that the bullying isn't in imminent danger of becoming a murder or anything like that. Not to be alarmist, but stuff these days is a bit different than it was when I was getting bullied, so I understand... Safety is paramount, I would think - social status somewhere after.

[borlis]

14. This is what my gut is telling me to do, but my son was

literally just about in tears begging me not to.

[magellan]

36. Please don't go to the principal

Or the teachers. I was bullied in elementary school by two older boys and came home crying almost every day until my mother finally went to the principal. (I'm a girl so couldn't fight back effectively.) He called the two boys in for a talk, and things went from bad to worse.

The principal and teachers are in no position to watch over bullied kids every minute of each day. It's only a matter of time before the bully finds an opportunity.

Put your son in martial arts training if at all possible. It will help him build up his self-confidence and give him the ability to fight back against kids who are bigger than him. I wish my mom had done that.

[Blue_Roses]

99. Disagree BIGTIME

The principal and the teachers need to know what's going on. If something happens to any child other than the "pants pulling" someone's ass is on the line. It's the parents who usually catch these things first from going further.

I say hound the principal and student. I substitute teach and I don't tolerate bullying. I call them down real fast. I was bullied as a child and I'll be damn if I let other kids go through this if I can do something about it.

[magellan]

140. Where were you when I was a little girl?

Wish you'd been my teacher.

I agree it seems intuitive for the parents to go to the principal/teachers, but I'm just relaying my experience as a child when this was done. It didn't help, it only made things worse.

[Ariana Celeste]

122. That's precisely what worked for my SO.

Learning that he could defend himself really boosted his confidence and self esteem, and he was able to fight back- making the bullying stop.

[gully]

39. Well, your son needn't know.

Sorry, don't want to suggest you break trust here, but I think you can explain to the staff that your son is very much against your sharing this and that they need to keep it under wraps? I think as a parent you have to do something?

Again - the only other options seem to be:

1. Get him involved in boxing/karate classes so he can kick the kids ass
2. Continue to be bullied
3. Change schools
4. kick the kids ass yourself ;)

Don't know what else to suggest.

[txindy]

107. I can understand that, although I do like the suggestion about the principal.

I have a son in the same grade and, yes, a lot of mean kids are 'popular'. I think it's fear-based, myself. Anyway, in the event anyone bugs him, my son confronts him immediately and tells the kid to step off. No fight. No yelling. Just a very assertive tone and confident body language. He's made it clear that the warning goes for the bully's groupies, too. If anyone bugs him, he'll hold THAT kid responsible for what he has anyone else do. It's worked for the last two years.

[Porcupine]

28. I have done this with both my daughters and the problem's stopped.

There should be absolutely no tolerance of bullying at school. Then haul said kid over to judo, aikido or jujitsu classes.

I was terrorized until I learned about three joint locks. After that anyone that hassled me found themselves on the ground asking for their arm back. Only 2 demonstrations needed at any given school and word gets around. Martial artists know not to screw with each other and nobody else screws with a known martial artist.

[dalaigh lllama]

29. Good advice

These principals/assistant principals will understand that your son doesn't want to be called a "tattler", so they should tell the teacher in charge of the group to keep an eye out for this, without anyone knowing you called to give them the heads up.

[Maraya1969]

10. That happened to my brother when we were kids.

My parents enrolled him in Judo classes and the next time someone tried to fight with him my brother threw him over his shoulder. He was never bullied again.

It may not be the PC thing to do but it can work. The moves I learned in Judo involved not hurting the other person but stopped them from hurting you. When you throw a person you always hold their arm so they are not hurt on the way down.

[SeattleGirl]

13. I think you should report it to the school, and I'll tell you why.

Do you recall the school shooting at Thurston High School in Springfield, Oregon? Kip Kinkle was the student who shot the other kids. My daughter used to go to that school, but moved up here several months before it happened, but her sister still went to school there. Emmy was, thank God, late to school that day. She pulled into the parking lot just as the kids came running out of the school. Several of the kids who were shot and killed or wounded were friends of my daughter and her sister. I had to go to my daughter's school here in Seattle and tell her what happened, which was difficult to do. My two sisters work at the local hospital, and while they worked in OR, they, along with most other personnel, went to the ER to help with the kids coming in. While taking care of the kids, they were frantically looking around at the same time, trying to see if Emmy was among the kids coming in. It was a trauma for the kids, for the school, and for the whole town. Oh, and before Kip Kinkle went to school to shoot kids there, he killed his parents at their home.

He was a lost kid, with many problems. By saying that, however, I am not excusing what he did. What I'm saying is that if someone had said something sooner, maybe some type of intervention could have been done with Kip, and none of this would have happened.

I empathize with your son, as that age is a tough one. But if the kid who is bullying him, and paying others to do the same, does have some problems, maybe by you telling someone, he can get the help he needs now, and things won't escalate. I hope he does get some help.

I'm not sure exactly how you should explain to your son that you are going to report it; I'm not suggesting you tell him about the school shootings or anything. I don't know your son, so what you say is up to you. But again, I think telling the school about this kid bothering your son can ultimately be a good thing for this kid, as well as for your son.

[borlis]

21. I have heard from a friend who knows a police officer in our town

that this kid has pulled a knife on his mother and she didn't do anything. One of her neighbors walked in on it and she sent her away.

[SeattleGirl]

24. Holy cow! Then I think you should definitely say something.

Sounds like this kid may have his mom terrorized. Again, I understand this is a difficult situation, and being a mother myself, I understand that you don't want to put your son in an awkward position, but this sounds very serious. I hope you will let us know how it goes. :hug:

[EnviroBat]

94. It's a shame it's not legal to kick the crap out of a kid.

Nothing teaches a lesson quite like a taste of your own medicine. I'd love to kick the shit out of a bully kid just like Billy-Bob did in "Bad Santa". That was great...

[borlis]

146. This crap is making me want to do stupid things like

egging their house in the middle of the night and ordering pizzas to their house.

[flying_monkeys]

15. Call the school.

In my kid's MS, it wouldn't be the Principal but the Asst Principal who handles stuff like that....


Schools NEED to hear this stuff so they can enforce the No Bullying they want - - and most schools know how to bring this stuff up without making it look like Junior summoned Mommy.... But until the Dude making your kid's life miserable is exposed, he is free to keep harming your son as well as any other 8th grader he chooses to harm...


It is hard to be the Mom in a case like this, isn't it? CALL THE SCHOOL and remember, your number one job as Mom is to PROTECT your kid.... So expose that little jerk paying others for misdeeds :)


(I have found it is best to relay the story all the while admitting the story may not be the whole truth - - because kids leave important stuff out sometimes - - and that lets the school know you don't think your kid is The Font Of All That Is True And Righteous (it lets them see you are humanly realistic :) ))

Good luck....

[flying_monkeys]

22. In fact, send me the info

and I will happily call the info in for you.


I speak relatively fluent "school-ese" and I can say I am a concerned "neighbor" calling in your stead (and just neglect to mention how many miles apart our house are ;) )

[Recursion]

37. That only works if you think the school will do something

Bullies are usually so two-faced that they'll always say and do the right thing around administrators who then can't believe any of the stuff they are hearing about them.

[renate]

16. oh my, that's a tough one

There was a thread here not long ago about bullying and many of the posters had had good results by fighting back themselves (when they were young) or by giving their kids permission to defend themselves physically. However, if the bully has a lot of friends who behave the same way he does and your son's friends aren't the type to rumble, that could backfire, I would think.

Does the school allow kids to hang out in the library during recess? Or could your son stay nearer to the supervisor during recess so that anything the bully does would be impossible for him/her to ignore?

Another possibility would be enlisting a friend's parent; I'm personally a bit of a chicken and would really have an impossible time confronting the kids' parents, but I have a friend who is very good at that kind of thing. If you have a friend like that and her kid feels threatened by this bully, too, maybe she'll take the parents or the school on. Or, since part of your son's worry might be that it'd be embarrassing to have his mom come to his rescue, maybe a friend's dad would be willing to help.

You might also ask the principal whether complaints could be made anonymously--well, not exactly complaints, just something along the lines of "please ask the playground supervisor to keep a closer eye on Bully X." At my son's orientation I talked to the assistant principal about exactly that and he said yes. (You could call from work or a cell phone or pay phone, or just write a letter without a signature (explaining that you're not signing it at your son's request, so they don't think you're the kind of person to normally make anonymous complaints--in my experience teachers are very understanding of the special circumstances that raising kids sometimes require), to ensure your son's anonymity. Worst case, the answer will be no; then you'll have a decision to make. But if they appreciate the heads-up, even an anonymous request might help.)

Good luck. Stories about bullying just break my heart. I'm so sorry your son and you are going through this.

:hug: to you both.

[pk_du]

17. I'd try both the Parents and the Principal...either in paralllel or

Principal after the parents if you dont get the right reaction. Time to stop this shit methinks.

[angry_chuck]

18. the administration path seems

fruitful. Paying seems problematic. Maybe your kid could learn karate...for self-defense. My father has a story he told me many times about his being bullied as a child (maybe he was 9?) but the end result was he punched the bully in the face and never was bullied by him or any other kid afterward. Effective for him, possibly problematic for your son. Martial arts can be a positive way to build character, reinforce good values, and is a great confidence builder for kids (boys or girls). Just talk to the instructor to make sure he is not some ex-vietnam vet with PTSD and an inclination toward anarchy and you will be fine. Talking to the principal seems like a very effective path in theory; all depends on the admin i guess. Good luck.

[Tatiana]

19. #1) Speak to the playground supervisor personally.

Give him/her a summary of what is going on and let the person know of your expectation for the bullying behavior to stop immediately.

#2) If that doesn't improve the situation, you will need to go to the principal. First of all, put your initial correspondence with the principal in writing so that you have documentation. Request a meeting with the principal and explain your concerns. Emphasize the adult supervision aspect (that appears to be lacking) with the principal. As a parent, your child should feel safe and secure at school. Ask the principal what he/she can do to facilitate this. Keeping an eye on this kid seems to be the solution. If the bully is caught in the act, your child won't look like the "tattletale."

[JDPriestly]

23. Take your child with you and report it together.

Your child needs to see that you have courage and that he will not be punished for having courage. Sure, your kid could take judo or karate and beat the other kid up, but the bully would pick on some other kid. This is the time for intervention. Let your child know you believe his story and that you care enough to take his side. One of the purposes of a community is to protect the normal person from the bully. Think of it this way. If you intervene, the bully may be given the kind of counseling that prevents him from becoming a criminal. You are not only protecting your child but possibly preventing the bully from having to go to jail some day. If you take your child with you to see the principal, the child is more likely to be believed. The bullies take charge because the bullied allow them to do so. Good people need to practice courage in the face of wrongdoing.

[JDPriestly]

26. Make a police complaint for assault.

If the attacks are serious enough, and if the school refuses to do anything, you should tell the police. The bully is pretty big. He is old enough to face juvenile charges. The attacks you have described are serious. Someone could really be hurt. Don't let this continue.

[uppityperson]

47. we have had a middle schooler in trouble for assault in our small town.

It happens and it is really hard to tell someone, and yes, they get in trouble but in the long run it is worth it. You never know if your complaint will be the 1 that gets this teenager the help he needs. As well as protecting your own and teaching your teen a lesson that laws are for a reason and actions have consequences. Good luck.

[Tesha]

72. *REGARDLESS* of whether the school does anything, press charges.

A lot of people in modern-day America seem to be sure
that "Might makes Right"; they need some counter-evidence,
and a guy with a badge, a gun, handcuffs, and the authority
to haul them away to Juvy Hall may be exactly what they need.

Tesha

[NanceGreggs]

25. Just a suggestion that worked for me ...

I had the same situation many years ago with my own son. And it was the same caught-in-the-middle thing: If I went directly to the school authorities, I would be going against my son's specific request not to do so.

I waited outside the schoolyard at the end of the day, and confronted the bully myself. I told him that if he ever came near my child again, I would go to the principal and report him.

I reminded him that if I did that, the principal would - at the very least - call his parents in to discuss the matter.

I asked him how happy his parents would be with him after they'd had to leave work (the golf club, whatever) in the middle of the day, to come down to the school and get a lecture from the principal about what kind of lousy parents raise such a bratty little kid.

That was the end of it.

[JDPriestly]

32. That works too.

Our daughter was being bullied on the way home from the first grade. My husband went to school, picked her up and walked home with her. When my daughter pointed out the bully to my husband, my husband told the bully to leave our daughter alone. Interestingly, that daughter is very courageous and takes no bullying from anyone. Our older daughter is more timid. When she had problems with bullies, we reported it to the authorities. Maybe it is best to speak to the bully yourself. You have to take some action.

[NanceGreggs]

41. It's not an across-the-board truism ...

... but in most cases, the bullies are far more afraid of their own parents' reaction than anything the school may or may not do. Even if they brag that their parents will 'be on their side', they're usually not really secure about that conjecture.

That's why I advise going directly to the bully first. If the behaviour continues, going to to the school authorities is still an option.

[borlis]

52. Read my post #21 - This kid has pulled a knife on his mother!

And she didn't do anything. I don't think he is afraid of his parents.

[NanceGreggs]

56. Gee, that seems like a vital piece of information ...

... any reason why you failed to mention it in the OP?

[Vanje]

95. Assault is a crime

Call the police.

[pitohui]

131. borlis you should absolutely NOT approach this bully on your own

i can't believe the shitty advice people are giving you, this is a police matter, you do not approach a dangerous pervert outside the law and give him an opportunity to attack you or, worse, make up lies about you and put you in the wrong

go to the police, if the police won't investigate, get a sympathetic local attorney and have him or her file the charges as the first step in a civil suit against the kid, his parents, the school, and whoever else is facilitating the abuse of your child

you have simply got to make the legal system work for you

but it can't work for you if no one in the system even knows what has been done to your child!

[radwriter0555]

67. You're right. I had to do the same thing to a former friend of my daughter's

who kept harrassing her in several different ways.

When she called again I wouldn't let her talk to Liv, and we continued to not respond to her calls and harrassment.

I later learned she told her 'friends' that I (a) called the police and (b) called her mom on the phone and called her horrific sophmoric names... niether of which I did, of course.

The parent threatening the kid in person just like what you did is perfect. Make sure to include the hired thugs in the discussion as well.

[femmocrat]

124. Do not confront the child. Please see my post below regarding parents

showing up on school property without authorization. Post #123.

[Nicole]

30. Get together with other parents

As a group of concerned parents ask the school to watch playground activity more closely. The bully will never need to know your son was involved.

I'm surprised that 8th graders still have recess. Here that ends in elementary school.

[The Straight Story]

33. Let me ask you THIS:

If you were the kid getting picked on, what would you want to be done right now?

And now that you are grown up, if you could go back in time - what would you do?

Here is a quickie story about a friend on mine and what he did. I am 41 and we still both remember this.

He was being picked on by this kid a lot off and on. So one day he was walking down the hall behind him and ran as fast as he could and smacked him hard with his open hand on the back of his head and nearly knocked him down. Told the kid if he EVER picked on him again he would keep sneaking up on him when he least expected it the rest of his life.

The kid never ever again messed with him. He was testing him for a response and got one.

Now ME I took a different approach to a bully. I ignored him and nearly cried over it - and the day he was picking on me, he eventually came up and apologized because I turned the other cheek. He knew I was a christian, and that I carried my bible and took the message of love seriously, as did others. He felt ashamed.

Maybe, in your case, you can see the kid at the bus stop and tell him you know he has issues but that he is loved. Or you can go and kick his ass and let him see how it feels :)

to each their own.

[AJ9000]

34. May I ask what state this is in?

Also, is this a rough school or one with a good reputation?

Off the top of my head:

You could threaten the kids parents with a law-suit for hurting your sons knee.

Your son could confront the kid at the right time, assuming he is not overmatched physically.

it's tough though because you do want to respect your son's feelings.

it seems to me that if this kid has been paying other kids to do things to your son, the principal could probably get it out of the other kids, and the bully would be caught.

whatever you do, I would keep talking with your son and try to go with a strategy that you both agree on.

[borlis]

49. Illinois. A highly rated school district in a middle-upper middle

class neighborhood. Our high school has a 97% graduation rate. I told my son today that I kind of almost wish he would have been hurt badly enough to require a trip for x-rays. Then there would be no question about what I would do.

[AJ9000]

51. You could do that in prep to threaten or actually sue the parents. But you'd

have to do it soon.

[Recursion]

35. "Popular" doesn't mean "liked" in middle school

It just means everyone agrees that they're the "popular" ones. I didn't get it when I was in middle school, and I don't get it now.

Try judo lessons?

[midnight]

38. Hi borlis, such a tough issue with the stuff that we are powerless

to handle. If this was my child, I would talk to an attorney. You don't have to do anything but get a free one on one. Then brace yourself for the events that come. Eventually, if you find yourself talking to the principal get everything he/she says in writing. If what is discussed doesn't occur you have it in writing. It doesn't hurt to talk to attorney's. Some are better than others. Part of me wants you to bypass school and bring an attorney in who will write a letter to the school and parent's of bully outlining what will occur if any further assaults happen. Just an opinion. I know this is tough-Good Luck!

[mikehiggins]

40. self deleted for silliness

No, really. My comment was just plain silly.

And the poster should contact the school principal.

[Mythsaje]

43. Bullies suck...

I went through this kind of crap as a kid, but when I was a kid the teachers would punish both the bully AND the person being picked on. And people wonder why I grew up to distrust authority.

Couldn't imagine. :sarcasm:

By the time I was in Jr. High I was back in karate classes. By the time I was in high school I just learned not to take it anymore. I played at being totally crazy, which, believe it or not, does a lot to prevent bullying. It's against the bully tradition to mess with a crazy person.

On a more serious note...I think contacting the administration surreptitiously, or even better, having someone ELSE contact the administration about the situation (so you won't be violating your son's trust, directly at least) is your best bet.

I do recommend martial arts classes as well. Even if they don't bear immediate fruition, they have a lot of long-term benefits. I'd recommend seriously shopping around for the right teacher though. That can make all the difference.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. Go to the principal and he/she can handle this discreetly so as not to

make it seem your son told you about it. They can say a teacher saw what happened and it has to stop and if it doesn't stop, the kid will be suspended. Schools have bully rules. I've gone through this crap. Don't let the kid get away with it. Stop it now or it will NEVER stop.

[question everything]

45. From today's Dear Abby

Dear Abby: There's a boy in my class I have known since I was 2. He's a great athlete, but is a tad bit full of himself. He is always playing mean pranks on me and hitting me up for money, and if I don't give him money he hits me.

I ask him to stop, but he still does it. Abby, what do you think I should do?

– 11 And Frustrated

Dear 11 And Frustrated: You may have known this boy since he was 2, but the person you have described is a bully and an extortionist. Please inform a teacher or the school principal about the fact that he's hitting you when you don't give him money. And also ask your parent(s) to find you a course in self-defense. It will make you less likely to be picked on in the future.

[walldude]

80. Dear Abby's advice was cute in the 50's and 60's

but uh.. she has no idea what it's like in school for kids today.

[CAcyclist]

130. Dear Abby

is actually Dear Abby's daughter, not some clueless 80 year old as you are imagining.

[Vanje]

96. dear 11 and frustrated,

That shit is a CRIME! Call the police!

[lumpy]

46. If your son's father is available, perhaps he

should have a little talk with the principal. Sometimes fathers are respected more than mothers in such cases. Nothing to suggest other than giving your son lessons in defense. One of my brothers had a similar problem from a class bully until he had enough and bloodied the fought him to the ground and made him say uncle.. That gave him the confidence he needed that he didn't have to take bullying from anyone. From that time on he had no problems from anyone. Maybe that wouldn't work in these strange times, but it certainly used to work.

[borlis]

50. Mr borlis just got home and doesn't think we should do anything.

Which is just like him. :mad:

[BlueIris]

54. Respectfully, hon...you have got to be fucking kidding me.

Um, again, with respect...your kid being bullied in school is only one of your problems.

[Xithras]

63. I'm curious to know why not.

Does he want your son to resolve it himself? A lot of fathers make that mistake with their boys. Rather than arguing the subject with him, you might helpfully suggest that he give his son some pointers on HOW to resolve it. I tend to agree that its best for boys (and children in general) to work out their problems without parental involvement when possible, but we have to temper our desire to support self reliance with recognition of a childs actual limits.

Mention that your son may not have figured out how to deal with it, and that he could use some "fatherly" input. Your son may indeed be able to work this out on his own, but even the best of us need advice from time to time. Without meaning to seem sexist, your husband is probably in a better position to give advice on dealing with boy on boy bullying better than you are, simply because he's probably perpetrated or been the victim of it at some point (most men, at some point in their childhoods, were on one side or the other). You may not get his opinion on calling the principal, but if he's a decent father at all it should at least guilt him into talking with the boy about the problem and get him involved.

[Blue_Roses]

100. With all due respect--it may be why your son is being a target

If his own dad won't stand up for him then who will. We learn to defend ourselves from those who we see defend themselves.

[AJ9000]

48. I just saw this thread about bullying also on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2702699&mesg_id=2702699

[borlis]

53. I did think of one thing I am going to do.

On Tuesday mornings, I bowl in a league with someone who lives right across the street from them. I'll ask her for her opinion, since she knows them. Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to sleep now. I'll worry more about this in the morning.

[Vanje]

97. F- - - that SH-_!

Assault is a crime!
Call the fucking police!

[Trajan]

55. You son has been assaulted and battered ....

Both acts are crimes in every state of the union ....

Merely TOUCHING someone without their permission is battery ....

I would not tolerate it : Let your kid off the hook and YOU talk to the Superintendent, and tell him in no uncertain terms that assault against your child will NOT be tolerated ....

Happens again ? .... Call the Police, and have the perpetrator arrested (or cited) ....

There should be ZERO tolerance of violence .... talk is one thing, but touch my kid, and you're going to jail ....

[earth mom]

57. This won't be a popular opinion but...

But I would take my kid out of that school NOW and find another school or home school. There was a parent on one ot the nightly news shows like Dateline a short while back whose son committed suicide because he was being relentlessly bullied and couldn't take it any more.

Good Luck!

[sweetheart]

60. Take your son...

...to the house of the 'bully' this evening, and knock on the door asking
for the bully. Then when bully appears, tell him "Has my son been bothering
you? Well i've heard that he's been in trouble, and i dragged him over here
to apologise. Son..." your son: "i'm sorry". (you should behave just as angry
as you are writing the post) Your job is to be a scary father mother fucker.
After your son apologizes, smack him on the head and say, "right you are."
Then say to the bully kid, "if my son gives you any more trouble, just let me
know and i'll kick his ass myself."

The results will achieve everything you wish to achieve, as bully will relate
strongly to being bullied and likely even share comraderie with your son realizing
what a bully *you* are. :-)

[MadHound]

64. Have your child take some self defense classes

I would recommend judo. It is the least violent, but most effective, especially when you have people "charging" at you. If your son tosses this guy across the playground a few times, he'll get the message and stop.

[meisje]

66. One word "Shiv"

[sendero]

68. Tough one...

.. lots of good advice here.

1) the best way to stop a bully is to retaliate, but that can be dangerous

2) going to administrators is a crap shoot. some take this stuff seriously, some do not, some have zero tolerance policies and will simply make matters worse.

I've always taught my boys that if they are bullied, to retaliate right then and there. This is based on personal experience, bullies generally are good at dishing it out and really bad at taking it. I realize this is not a viable solution in every situation.

Also, the shorts drop is more like being pranked, it would be hard to justify kicking the dude in the jewels over that. The tackle would qualify though.

[symbolman]

70. I know this will sound inappropriate

but all I can offer is what I used to do in situations like this back in grade school.

If there was a Bully bothering everyone I would wait until I could get a shot in, with no witnesses, maybe enough people milling around in the hallway, so that the Bully wouldn't know who pulled it off, and I'd PUNCH the son of a bitch right in the back of the head as hard as I could.

It worked well. For one thing, most kids that see you do that aren't going to mess with you or rat on you, because they think you might be a little nuts and go after them too, and plus to them you are standing up to a Bully, and they don't want to be involved.

The other plus point is the Bully is NOW Paranoid as hell. He has NO Idea who laid him out like that, it could be ANYBODY, and he'll be thinking of all the people that HATE him, and he knows he's hated by a lot of people. He doesn't want that to happen again, and in my experience the Bully mellowed right the hell out, but walked down the hallways looking over his shoulders all the time, which in the end humiliated him, made him look like a wussy dork.

The problem in 8th grade is that everyone gets their Testosterone SURGE, some faster and bigger than others, and the truth is, the only way to solve it, at least in my day, was to pick someone out and kick the crap out of them. It's expected or you will be endlessly attacked and called out.

I found out that getting punched in the face didn't hurt all that much, a big surprise and very welcome.

On a more serious note, maybe enroll your kid in some self Defense classes - where they teach you NOT to fight, but also HOW TO, if he DOES need to protect himself from Bullies who CAN go over the edge and do real damage. Most kids can't do a lot of physical damage until High School, a lot of headlocks and flailing and Bullie's friends calling the fight for him, fake popularity, etc.

Boxing lessons might be a good hobby for your son, teaches self defense, confidence, and sportsmanship, and also when the time comes he can turn that Bully into what my dad called himself when he boxed, "Kid Candle - One Blow and he was OUT like a Light.."

Sorry to hear it, odd as it may seem it's perfectly normal - all of a sudden when you make the transition from 6th grade to the 7th and 8th, all the guys start calling each other OUT with their last Names as if they are an insult, not on a first name basis, like back in earlier grade school, where kids are saner and not swacked on Male Hormones yet...

[Tesha]

71. I believe the correct answer is to file a criminal complaint.

I believe the correct answer to bullying is to file a
criminal complaint.

School districts just want everyone to play nice, and
they routinely under-react to *ACTUAL VIOLATIONS OF THE
LAW*. So, instead, you react. Call the police and press
charges against the bully and his accomplices.

Tesha

[smoogatz]

73. Your kid should walk up to the bully and hit him as hard as he can

in the face. He may get suspended, but he'll win the respect of his peers. He cannot remain passive in this situation, unfortunately.

[yellowdogmi]

98. I say go for the nuts.

That will leave a lasting impression.

[smoogatz]

101. Too girly. A short, straight shot to the nose would end the whole thing.

If he breaks the kid's schnoz in the process, so much the better. I went through this for about a week in Junior High--no idea how to deal with it. I'd come in from another school district, and I was one of the only boys in my Southern Ohio school with long hair (circa 1973, if you can believe it). My father said, "Son, what you do is walk up to the biggest, meanest-looking one and pop him in the face. He won't expect it, you might get your ass kicked afterwards, but they'll think twice before they mess with you again." He was right--worked like a charm; broke the kid's nose with the second punch (lucky shot) and he ran away crying, blood all down his shirt. I got suspended for three days, but I only had to fight one fight in all of Junior High and High School, and it lasted about two seconds.

[BlackVelvet04]

74. I can share from my own experience.....

when I was in high school there was a group of girls who took a dislike to my two sisters and me. We were all tiny...I was only 5'1" and one of my sisters was only 4'10". They had roughed up my youngest sister at a playground and continued to harass us. One night after a football game the bullies, who were much bigger than us, started in on us and I snapped. I threw my purse on the ground, walked up to them and said "let's do it....you may kick my ass but I'm going to hurt you while you do it."

That was the end of that.

Would you believe I ran into a couple of these now women in October at a hometown fall festival and they were as nice to me as if we were old pals.

Sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself even though you may get your ass kicked.

[smoogatz]

77. Yep.

And if you don't stand up, you're branded as an easy target.

[BlackVelvet04]

88. Not only that.....

it's self-esteem destroying to go through life frightened of getting your ass kicked and always backing down.

If a person doesn't learn to stand up for themselves they go through life being pushed around. Learning to stand up for myself against emotional and mental bullying changed my life as much as learning to stand up against physical bullying.

[porphyrian]

76. You know your kid better than any of us.

What will scar him more, being humiliated repeatedly by a bully or being humiliated by having his parent try to solve the problem for him? If it's the former, damn straight tell the Principal, and make enough of a stink that the bullying bastard is exposed for what he is to the entire city. I'm sure others have been bullied by him, too, and you could turn the tables on him. However, if it's the latter, you might just consider being there to comfort your son and let him deal with it. Maybe there's some other way to get back at the bully that won't get your son picked on more.

[Rosemary2205]

78. Mr Borlis is right IMHO

Your son is getting old enough that he has to learn how to work out this kind of thing. He needs guidance from you and his dad on how to work it out, but if at all possible he needs to work it out on his own. Just give him the tools to do so.

Get him in marshal arts to learn self defense. Build up his confidence so he know he doesn't have to just sit there and take it, he can use his intelligence to confront the belittler. But whatever you do let your son handle it.

Just MHO from the voice of experience.

[Sabriel]

81. borlis, you need to document, document, document

It's not good enough to just "talk" to someone...leave a paper trail. When you make a request for a conference, make it in writing and send it registered mail. Ditto for a letter of concern/complaint. And if you don't get a response in a reasonable amount of time, do it again, and this time, CC it to the superintendent.

If you don't document, it's very easy for people to waffle and put things off.

Good luck. As a former teacher, I've seen bullied students traumatized from deciding to report the abuse. And that's what it is...abuse. If you wouldn't take this crap from an adult, then don't take it from a child, either!

[Xenotime]

82. Tell the freeper parent to have his kid leave you alone.

[sniffa]

83. weLL..

from experience, the onLy way to stop a buLLy is to fight back. if you're worried your son wiLL get hurt, have him start paying other kids $2 to go after the buLLy.

[Hawkeye-X]

89. hey sniffa!

haven't seen you in a while. Where have you been? :D

[sniffa]

92. hiya

i've been busy maiLing powder to jon stewart.

:hi:

[Midlodemocrat]

84. We had a similar situation when my son was in 8th grade.

In fact, we pulled him out of school because the school essentially refused to do anything, but I made their lives fucking hell.

I insisted that they suspend the kid who attacked him and I also insisted that the bus driver who knew it was going on be fired. My son hadn't hit a growth spurt at that time and he was smaller than this other kid, (who had also repeated a grade and was thus a year older)

The only thing to do that won't make the situation worse is to go to the school and report it and DEMAND action. DEMAND it. Tell them you won't agree to a compromise, but if your son is targeted again, that you will come down on them like the wrath of God.

It's amazing how some of these people will crumble in the face of an outraged parent.

And, FWIW, my son is having a fantastic year in high school. And, that kid hasn't even looked at him.

[meldroc]

85. Speaking as the formerly bullied, I recommend two strategies.

First, friends. Bullies are cowards, and they will pick on those weaker than they are. Specifically, they will almost always go after the lone kid. As far as advice, first thing I'd recommend is that I'd look into your son's social situation, and see if he has enough friends. If he has absolutely no friends, he will need some help to learn enough social skills to be able to make some friends. If the situation isn't that bad, I'd encourage him to hang out with his friends more, and make some friends. Bring them over so they can hang out together, enroll him in some fun activities - sports, games, whatever he has fun doing. Try to make sure he's with a group of friends instead of alone and vulnerable.

Second, confidence. Bullies are expert in reading body language, and they will home in on the kids that show signs of low self esteem - body language such as slouched posture, looking at the ground, slumped shoulders, no eye contact, no smile. Martial arts classes are an excellent idea, but not to teach the kid how to fight back, but to build confidence. I know this because I've taking a couple years of martial arts classes, but being fairly small, I know perfectly well I'd still get my ass kicked if I got in a fight with someone significantly bigger than me. But the confidence built did help me avoid some bullying. Teach him to stand straight, and look people in the eye.

I wouldn't call the principal, except as a last resort. School is like prison - you can't leave, and everybody hates snitches. If your kid's in physical danger, then do what you have to do, but if it isn't that far, I'd stick with building friends and confidence.

Friends and confidence. Friends and confidence. More friends helps build confidence, and more confidence encourages friendships. Friends and confidence makes the bullies look for another target.

Oh, and if your kid does get in a fight, I'd recommend a swift knee or foot to the groin to put the bully in his place. Don't ask me how I know this...

[Nikki Stone1]

86. If this bully pulled a knife on his mother, then he is no ordinary bully

but a felon in training.

That changes things. Ordinarily, I like the idea of fighting back. I did it myself back in the day, especially with guys, believe it or not. But those guys were just ordinary bullies, not guys who had pulled knives on their moms.

The school NEEDS to be notified, not just because of your kid but because of any potential violence that the felon in training may wreak on others, including the teaching staff. As someone who taught in a large urban school district, I've seen kids who are really violent and who threatened teachers with physical violence. If a parent can clue the school in to a potential criminal like this, it is better for everyone.

[IdaBriggs]

87. Some promises are made to be broken. ("don't tell I want to kill

myself" and "I'm being bullied" are both in that category.)

Your son has a legitimate concern. He does not want to appear to be the "weak one" in the herd, which would set him up for *MORE* attacks later. (Lowest ranking wolves in a pack, for example, are frequently killed by the rest of the pack, while "weak" herd animals are picked off by predators -- at some level, we humans always have those thoughts in the back of our brain, so your son is instinctively reacting in a "survival" mode to this situation.)

However, since the only alternative to "being weak" is "being strong," now you and your family must make a decision about what "strength" means to you.

-- Are you of a faith that requires "turning the other cheek?" If so, you and/or your son may consider "strength" to be going up to the child in question with compassion, and telling him that you and/or your son intend to pray for him daily, as well as put him on a prayer request because he is obviously going through some challenging times and is desperately seeking attention/distraction to deal with it.

-- Are you of a "speak your truth" persuasion? In other words, is it more important to you that your son learn the lessons of "never being afraid to tell the truth, regardless of the personal consequences?" If so, a polite conversation with the principal of the school expressing concern for this boy's mental health and well being might be in order, as demonstrated by the fact he may have been sexually abused in the past (based on his obsession with forceful pulling down of pants).

-- Are you a verbal confrontation type? If so, teaching your child "power words" to use in this situation might help. Have your son confront him in public, and bluntly ask, "Are you gay? And if not, what is your obsession with seeing my butt?" (This is not intended to demean homosexuals, by the way; but the behavior described is sexual in nature, and the words are strong "attack words" for most adolescents. It is also extremely challenging to respond to them.)

-- Are you a physical confrontation type? If so, a physical attack might stop things. Or it might escalate them. Either way, violence has been known to solve some problems, but the instant your son becomes the aggressor publicly, he is going to get "labeled" himself. It is also unlikely that this solution will be of any assistance to the boy who is causing the problem, as he will most likely simply move on to another victim. (The odds of him being a victim of some form of abuse or mental problem are pretty high, based on what you have reported in other responses.)

You obviously have a plethora of choices here, and the values you and your family bring to the table are going to be teaching "life lessons" for a long time. The child who is committing these acts is obviously having some serious emotional problems, but that is NO EXCUSE for your son to become his "emotional acting out punching bag." You have a challenging task of your own -- teaching your son to view someone else with compassion, and still not being a victim to the other child's abuse.

I am confident you will find a way to handle the situation with grace, courage, and strength, which will reinforce your family values (whatever they happen to be) in your family. This is not going to be an easy situation to resolve, but it will be one of the most important life lessons you can ever teach your child.

Good luck! :) Best, Ida

[Beelzebud]

90. Pay an older kid to beat the shit out of the bully. :D

[cmd]

91. Equip him with a gym whistle

He needs to get the attention of everyone around him and call out the bullies. A blast on the whistle and a loud "I said stop it." will get the proper attention.

[Vanje]

93. What wouuld you do if it happened to you?

An assault has occured. Call the police.

[hedgehog]

103. How about something completely different: Contact the parents

of the kids who were paid to harass your son and warn them that the bully is trying to get their kids in trouble.

Karate lessons? There must be bullies somewhere who take karate lessons.

Fighting back? That puts your son square in the middle of a he-said/he-said situation and is liable to end up getting him punished.

How about a letter to the local paper labeling the incidents with the shorts as sexual abuse? If this is happening to other kids, a letter can be very effective in uncovering s*** that other people are trying to keep buried.

Contact your police department and see if they have an officer assigned to youth crime and/or gang activity. Paying an attacker sounds close to gang activity to me.

[mondo joe]

104. I'd go to the principal, if I felt I could trust the principal to be

professional and not exacerbate the problem.

[ellie]

106. Is your son an only child?

I ask because my little brother, who was really short growing up (he's now 6'5", go figure) was getting bullied by one of stupid boys in our neighborhood. My parents always worked and wouldn't have done anything anyway, so I took it upon myself to go down to the bully's house and talk to his mother. When she said, "Boys will be boys," I told her that if her punk son bothered my brother again, I would kick his ass and that he should pick on someone his own size. He never bothered my brother again.

[City Lights]

121. No, he's the oldest of three boys.

(He is my nephew.)

[benEzra]

108. I wasn't bullied badly in school, but I had a cousin (bigger than me)

who bullied me now and then--UNTIL I took a year of isshinryu karate in early high school. I never told him, we NEVER fought, but the change in my demeanor (no longer the passive victim, but confident and willing to stand up for myself) actually deterred any further bullying by him.

HOWEVER, my cousin never pulled a knife on ANYBODY, to my knowledge, which puts your situation in a different and more dangerous league.

There has been lots of good advice offered above.

Self-defense classes--yes, definitely. Judo, karate, or krav maga (the latter may offer the quickest results) with a good teacher who doesn't neglect the self-defense angle; it needs to be more practical than "cool dance class where you get to wear a gi and jump around and yell a lot." Primary benefits--confidence and situational awareness, which will deter a lot of bullying and protect your son from surprise attacks. Secondary benefit--if bullying isn't deterred, your son will be able to defend himself more effectively, though he shouldn't try to go and kick the bully's ass after two weeks of classes. Prowess will take time, but it will come, and with it comes confidence. Feeling powerless and abused is a psychologically damaging situation to be in, and martial arts training can help overcome that.

Going to the school authorities--yes, BUT do so in a way that doesn't violate your son's trust. Explain to your son that you'd like to report this to the principal either anonymously, or in such a way that your son will NOT be fingered as an informant. Maybe get a group of concerned parents together and write a letter signed by all, or talk to the principal in person but open with a "if you found out somebody was being bullied, but was afraid of reprisals if he spoke out about it, how would you handle it"? and don't give any further details until you are satisfied that the school would handle it the right way. Or send an anonymous letter to the principal that doesn't mention your son, just the fact that X and his cronies are bullying kids at recess at location Y and please keep an eye on it, signed "Concerned Parent."

Your husband needs to take this seriously, IMHO. Get him in on the solution if at all possible.

[Ksec]

109. You can step in and help or

you can let your boy do what he has to do. Fight back.

This is a tough situation and my instincts would tell me to go and jerk the bully out and scare the living shit out of him. Then I think my boy has to learn how to handle life and its billys and I should stay away from the situation.
So heres my opinion. Wait, and see if it gets worse or just blows over. If it gets worse than step in , maybe talk the the bullies parents or school officials. But wait and see if your boy can work through this. He will be better for it imo. He will learn how to deal with the many problems that come with life.

[JNelson6563]

110. Several choices

Talk to the school, find your child a big friend, teach your child the knee to the groin and than the quick knee to the nose while the groin injury has them doubled over.

I would employ all three if necessary, going in the order I put 'em. But hey, that's me. ;-)

Julie

[AngryAmish]

111. Don't talk to the principal

Your son will just get his ass kicked worse. You should teach your kid how to fight and let him settle it.

[AJ9000]

114. Here is a response from a friend of mine who is very wise in these matters.

Here are his thoughts:

"This is a common problem and if there were any quick and easy
answers the bully problem would no longer exist.

The old fashioned way is to out bully the bully. My son had a
bully much older. My daughter was two years older than my son, and
her friend had several older brothers that were pretty tough and much
bigger and older than the bully.

One day at a football game the bully said something to my daughter
and her friend, and a few minutes later he got a visit from my
daughter's friends older brothers. He got pushed to the ground and
warned and that was the end of the problem in that case.

Another method is to call the police in a serious case. I also did
this once with a much older kid who punched my son and broke his
glasses. The police kept the file for six months and would have
charged him if anything else happend, and he apoligized and his dad
paid for the glasses.

The third method is to sign your son up for Karate classes and
teach him to use those sticks we talked about. <g>

Actually Karate takes a long time to learn and early on the student
is even a worse fighter than he was when he went in since he loses
his old reflexes, whatever they were, but has not yet learned the new
ones. Nonetheless over time the student builds confidence and is
much less likely to need to fight. Some might worry about the
student himself becomming a bully but I don't think that would happen
here, and a decent school teaches nonviolent values along with the
classes.

A fourth possiblity is reporting him to the principal anyway and
let the chips fall where they may. You might have to pull the kid
out of the school if things go bad.

The fifth is to "just take it" as the abuse is mostly humiliating
pranks rather than physical damage so far and hope the bully moves on
sooner or later. Not a good one but I suspect a common response --
especially if the kid feels he needs to keep it a secret.

I wish I had a good answer. If you come up with one let us know.

A longer term more general problem would be for mom to talk to the
principal but not name the bully and suggest the school start an anti-
bullying program and stick to it. There are many in use already and
I don't think the school would have to invent the wheel on this.
Once kids get more educated on bullying it might not be such a stigma
to report the bully and he himself might become an outcast for
bullying. What he is seeking is respect and approval and he could
lose that if the other kids start seeing through him and bullying."

[Nay]

115. My sympathies, Borlis. My son was in a similar situation and

the school was less than useful. Here's what happened:

My son was getting beaten up by a neighborhood bully at the bus stop nearly every day. The bully was much taller and older, but my son was not "weak" looking, whatever that means. My son finally told me about it, and we brainstormed a bit to see what we could do. I have brought him up to use violence only as a last resort (but I consider it a perfectly valid last resort). He also did not want me to tell the school or meet him at the bus stop, because he would never hear the end of it about how his "mommy" had to do stuff for him. I offered to try calling the bully's parents, and he agreed.

The bully's mother was a piece of work. HER son never did anything wrong, and it was prob MY son beating up HER son, and her son was an angel, and everybody hated him for no good reason....get the drift? She was a nutball with a son who was going off the rails. I let her rant a bit, and then I said, "Let me put it this way, Mrs. XXX. If your son injures my son in any way, my lawyer will immediately be talking to your lawyer and the police will be involved, because this is assault." And I hung up.

For the next few days, I watched Mrs. X go down to the bus stop to meet her son, obviously trying to head off trouble. When she stopped meeting him, the beatings resumed, plus the bully made lovely finger gestures at me as he passed by me as I stood on my porch.

Finally, I told my son that as soon as the bully touched/pushed/punched him as he got off the bus, he was to haul off and punch the kid AS HARD AS HE COULD RIGHT IN THE STOMACH with absolutely no warning to the bully at all. I told him not to hit him in the face or anywhere he could be seriously injured. We practiced the area (solar plexus) and I told him about mentally trying to punch through the kid, so he wouldn't be pulling punches, etc.The next day I could hear the fight at the bus stop (couldn't see, tho). My son did exactly what we practiced and was never bothered by anyone ever again.


Now, having said this, I do want to say your situation is somewhat different because of the knife incident, the fact that it was on school grounds, and involved hired bullies (WTF?). I would like to make the following suggestions and observations:

If it has only been a day or so since the incident that hurt his knee, take him to the doctor immediately for an exam and x-rays. (Doc in a box is fine for this.)Remember, always make a paper trail.

Your school is MORE liable than my son's, because your son is being bullied on school grounds underneath the noses of teachers, who should be doing their jobs.

Your bully has pulled a knife on his own mother. If I were you, I would feel like I would have to talk to the school, but I would explain why to your son before you did. In fact, I wouldn't "talk" to the school--I would write a certified, return-receipt letter to the principal, keeping a copy for myself. ALWAYS KEEP A PAPER TRAIL. I would make sure that I covered the facts that this bully has threatened his mother with a knife (prob a felony); that you are concerned that he may knife your son or other children on the playground; that playground monitors have not stopped the bullying in areas under their control; that the last incident injured your son's knee; and finally, most important, that the school would certainly be LEGALLY LIABLE for any injuries or deaths caused by a person who has been officially reported to them as violent. And that you are officially reporting this boy, and his little paid minions (include their names), as violent. You may even wish to report the name of the neighbor who saw the knife incident. If you want to consult a lawyer (or a legalese friend) to help with the letter so it will be sufficiently hair-raising for the principal, that's even better.


You should ask your son whether teachers have seen him being attacked--it's typical of schools to put out a no-tolerance bullying policy and then let things go on as usual, figuring they have covered their asses. (Your letter should shake them out of that mindset.)If teachers have seen the bullying and aren't doing anything about it, that also should be in your letter, because this makes the school REALLY liable, esp in light of their BS no-tolerance "policy." As an extra thought -- if teachers aren't watching, maybe your son could smack the hired bully hard enough so that they think twice about being assholes for a paltry $1. Or he could try the hilarious "budgie smuggler" idea above.

You should explain to your son that this can easily go beyond bullying into the knifing of his schoolmates, and that's why you recommend contacting the principal and just not worrying about any teasing, because this is too life-and-death to let it go. See if he would go for that. I am assuming he knows about the knife incident.

I know that martial arts can really help kids, but it is a long-term proposition. I recommend boxing lessons. The boxing coach can teach him a few hits, and HOW to hit, that will put people down and out pretty darn quick, and it just never hurts to know that stuff. I have only had to engage in fistfights twice, and the second time it saved my life. I was glad I had a college boyfriend who taught me how to punch.


Edit: I also recommend Krav Maga for self-defense. Classes can be hard to find, tho.

[bobbolink]

116. The bully has a knife, has threatened his mother--I think you know you have to do something.

I don't envy you. You are certainly in one hard rock situation, and I wish you well! (And I'm sorry this was moved to the lounge!)

I think, as a mother, you know somewhere inside you that this is a tragedy just waiting to happen. Bullies + knives don't usually have a good ending. All the advice telling you to get your kid to fight back when the bully has a knife is foolhardy, IMO.

I agree that many times kids, (and husbands!) have to learn the hard way. I agree that sometimes you have to stand back and let them find out for themselves.

But this is not just talking about a possible bloody nose--this could have very severe consequences. Learning in this way often comes to a bad end.

I thought the suggestion to have a neighbor or friend report it was good, because then if you find out the principal really doesn't care, you know that's a dead end, and that you have to take it further.

Best wishes to you, and I hope you let us know how this turns out!

[Haole Girl]

117. You want my advice?

Enroll your son into martial arts...at the first opportunity. Giving the gift of your son being able to defend himself will last a lifetime.

[bobbolink]

118. A good resource from Peter Yarrow... please look into this...

You've received plenty of good advice, which I'm sure you're sifting through.

I would like to add something completely different-- a great resource by one of my heros, Peter Yarrow, of Peter, Paul and Mary.

They recorded a song titled "Don't Laugh At Me", (written by two others, not PP&M) and aimed at children to help them learn to combat disrespect and bullies.

Peter Yarrow started an organization called "Operation Respect" (www.operationrespect.org), and on the website you can download the song, the music video, and many other resources. Once you make contact with someone at the school, you can present the materials to them, and let them know there is a whole curriculem prepared which the school can take advantage of. This could very well help your son, and many others.

There's a section for children, and what is there might be helpful to your son, also. (I just looked at it, and it looks like it's mostly "Under Construction" at this point. I think this is a new site. But, it might give your child some ideas, and let him know that what he's going through is NOT OK.)

I like the pictures of the children with their signs "Ridicule Free Zone", "No Dissing Here", etc.

One sentence I'd like to share with you: " All children suffer when issues of ridicule and prejudice are not dealt with openly." Please take that to heart!

I will close by saying that I gasped when you reported that this bully has already threatened his mother with a knife! This is not something that you can let go, and I think you really know that. This is a tragedy waiting to happen.

Best wishes to you and your son, and please let us know what happens.

:pals:

[crim son]

119. My son went through the same thing in sixth grade.

I did call the principal, who was remarkably sympathetic and called an entire school assembly to address the issue. My son's name was not mentioned but consequences for bullying were. There was an improvement at school, but my son was still approached and tormented in a nearby park. One day he freaked out and pulled a punch on a young man who was taunting him. He came home, very upset and feeling guilty. Instead of a punishment, we took him out for ice cream. And, he was never again touched by another kid. Seriously.

[flvegan]

120. Fucking mace the bully. It's a legal defense against battery.

That, a roll of quarters and a collabsible baton would go to school with me every day. And that kid that tackled me? I hope $1 puts your face back together, punk.

That said, 8th grade is a good age for a first weight set. Nothing helps build confidence (and size) like hitting the iron.

[femmocrat]

123. Advice from a MS teacher....

You must report it, for your child's safety and well-being. If you don't feel comfortable with the principal, go to the Guidance Counselor. The teachers will be alerted to watch for this behavior. Even if no one sees it, your son should be able to talk to the counselor about it, so they can plan an appropriate course of action.

DO NOT encourage your son to deck the bully, as satisfying as that might seem. Both kids involved in fighting are charged the same, doesn't matter who "started it." If you school wants to, they could haul them both to the magistrate and you will have to pay a fine.

DO NOT hang around the school yard to confront the bully. You could be arrested for trespassing or stalking! Seriously! Parents are not welcome in school or on the playground anymore, unless they are approved as "volunteers" and have appropriate ID. Everything is different since the school shootings, believe me.

I have taught MS for 12 years and have served on the Anti-Bullying Committee.... Your best bet is to go through school channels. Schools are required to have an anti-harassment/bullying policy. Find out what your district's policy is and insist that they follow it. Parents have a lot of clout.

[MichiganVote]

126. Agree. If the son does not have a viable plan then parents responsibility

is to put the kid in touch with those who can help him get one together. Notice I said plan, not punch.

Usually these types of bullies target more than one kid. Keeping quiet won't help anyone.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

127. Put your son in martial arts, preferably not that Tae Kwon Do shit.

One, it will really help his confidence and two, he'll learn how to defend himself. Honestly, the best way to stop a bully is to get in a good punch. Bullies pick on the weak. Once your son isn't an easy target, the bullying should stop. I teach martial arts. There have been plenty of kids who have come into the dojo as bullied kids and the bullying stops after they pick up some confidence that they can protect themselves. Usually without them ever having to throw a punch or a kick.

I'd still talk to the principal though about the bullying problem.

[pitohui]

128. this is sexual assault, file criminal charges

i would call an attorney and get the ball rolling to make sure the police investigate, or you could try approaching the police directly, sometimes w. assault it's funny, a friend of mine (adult) was assaulted and had to get his attorney to file because police wouldn't take the report

years later it wound its way to civil court at least and my friend was awarded six figures

paying people to pull down your kid's pants at that age is not harmless bullying, it's a sex crime

even if the DA ultimately chooses not to prosecute, you'll scare the crap out of the little jeff-dahmer-wanna-be

he'll ultimately molest some other kid but if you just let it go, the molesting of your kid and other kids will go on a lot longer, because he'll learn the lesson that he can get away with it

the prospect of expensive civil and criminal charges will convince the parents to do something, if only remove the evil mini-perv to another school away from your kid

do not take this lightly, pulling off a kid's clothes and paying others to pull off that kid's clothes is not a harmless prank

your kid is ashamed and doesn't want to report because he is a victim of a sex crime and it's a perfectly normal response

but you owe it to your kid to take action and to teach him that he deserves to be treated better than this

edited to add: my neighbor was molested, once, at age 5, by having his clothes pulled off, and he was still scarred and talking about it in his late 30s because no one did anything about it or even believed him

taking action is how you prove to your child that you believe his story because what parent would just stand by if they really believed this was happening to their kid?

[AJ9000]

133. You bring up some very interesting points Pit. One of the best posts here.

[achtung_circus]

129. I won't comment on the advisability or otherwise

of contacting one authority or another.

I was bullied until I hit back. That works, in my experience.

As far as martial arts are concerned, I'm not an expert, but receive regular on-the-job training in self defence and the experts who train us seem to agree that Tae Kwon-Do is the way to go.

It's not stylized, it's not formal, it's not pretty, it's about protecting yourself and hitting back effectively.

It is possible to do amazing things with a little knowledge.

One decent punch will probably stop it.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

132. i don't recommend your son fight him. notice that this kid is not fighting your son either.

point that out to your son. this bully is not ready to take a punch, and is not particularly confrontational. nor is he expecting any sort of retaliation. nor does his relative size matter, except in contributing to his foolish pride.

simply put, your son should punch this kid in the face walking by him at school when the kid least expects it. and tell your child not to just throw one punch and make it stick but to keep punching and keep the momentum until this kid's down on the ground, which he will be in short order without a doubt. the key is surprise, the same thing he does to your child. out of nowhere a flurry of punches. nobody should know about the plan, it all hinges on surprise. it won't even be a fight, instill this in your son. it will not be a fight.

"Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where
you are not expected." -Sun Tzu

"Standing on the defensive indicates insufficient
strength; attacking, a superabundance of strength." -Sun Tzu

"Therefore the clever combatant imposes his will on
the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him." - Sun Tzu

"You write to me that it is impossible; the word is not French." -Napoleon Bonaparte

"A great people may be killed, but they cannot be intimidated." - Napoleon Bonaparte

[Writer]

134. Borlis, I'm sorry you are dealing with this... I have a different take on what to do

Not only should you (discreetly) alert the principal, (especially that playground supervisor - there is a principle called SPORTSMANSHIP that you won't be there to enforce while he's at school) but you also need to find ways to empower your son so that he toughens up to this type of treatment. It sounds like your son has another kid or two who are true friends (by informing him of the $1 payoffs), so it would be good to encourage him to spend as much time as possible with them and give these bullies the cold shoulder. Ignoring them is one thing, but your son ignoring them while encasing himself in his own troop of friends is much better. Bullies tend to back off when they see the object of their bullying surrounded by his or her friends.

The goal with the principal is: "Hey, I'm doing my part as a parent, so what are you doing when I'm not there to supervise?"

Also, give the kid a pat on the head and bit of encouragement. Let him know that you're just looking out for him and these kids are just being small-minded pricks (your own words, now). That he should feel good about being athletic and just stick with that.

Good luck. :hug:

[Shine]

135. Bullying is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE.

Most schools have a zero tolerance for shit like that and would want to be informed if it were happening...which it clearly is, in your son's case.

I think you should bite the bullet and absolutely tell the school authorities IMMEDIATELY. Be the full on Mama Bear!! Yes, your son might get pissed at you and feel distrustful for a while, but it's better than having his self-esteem whittled away by increasing bullying and him keeping it from you.

I would think the school has some sort of protocol in place for situations like these. You owe it to your kid (and yourself) to do what you need to to protect him...on ALL levels: physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

Good luck, borlis. I have a son in the 7th grade, so I can relate to the challenges you are facing. It makes me sad that our sons are forced to stuff their emotions in order to be "cool". It's also unfortunate that they can sometimes equate "coolness" with domination, cruelty and bullying.

My best good wishes go to you, as another Mother on the path....:hug:

[City Lights]

137. Don't punch a wall! Throw a fork!

:evilgrin:

;-)

:pals:

[borlis]

147. I do have superior fork throwing skills!

:rofl:

[AJ9000]

138. More input from a friend/father:

"I agree with some of the advise that Jeff relayed to you. As a dad
who had to deal with this with my oldest son when he was 12, I can
sympathize..it is a difficult situation.

The boy obviously trusts his mom enough to share with her the problems, that's
a very good sign. My suggestion is that she sit down and talk with him in
detail..give him some options that HE might want to try..such as confronting the
bully directly (doesn't work often, but maybe if he can reason with him and ask
him to please stop the tormenting at that age might work), or he can go himself
to a counselor at the school. They have more training to deal with the bully
issue, generally speaking, then principals, and he may feel a bit more
comfortable getting some advise from a counselor instead. Kids that age are
often uncomfortable with a principal as he oftens ends up dealing with the more
severe disciplinary problems..hence, sometimes a fear develops.

Does the boy have another male influence in his life, such as an older cousin,
sibling, or uncle, that he can confide in? Perhaps a direct discussion from one
of his trusted male figures with this bully may also heed some results.

I think it is really important for mom to deal with this, so I strongly would
urge her to try the first suggestion, sit him down, explain why it is important
to deal with this. Try asking him if he would like if if some other kid was
bullied, wouldn't he want to stop the bully from hurting or picking on someone
else? And..if she does go to the principal or counselor, make sure she gives
HIM the option for her to go along..might be best to encourage him to give it a
shot alone..might go a long way to encourage his self esteem and his trust in
mom then."

[Redstone]

139. You may not like this, but you asked. Your son has to beat the bully so badly

that he'll never forget it. Even if he has to use an object like the cafeteria tray my older son broke the face of a bully with.

Your son will get suspended from school, but the bully will stop. It's the only way.

It might help if you (as I did) go to the principal and tell him the either the school can stop the bully or your son will. the school won't stop the bully, so your son will have to do it himself.

Redstone

[borlis]

141. The bully is the biggest kid in 8th grade,at least 6'

My son is 5'4". I think my son would get the crap beat out of him.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

145. Put your kid in the martial arts, seriously.

I've also competed extensively in full-contact martial arts. I am 5'1" and 105lbs. I like fighting taller, heavier people than me. You know why? I'm faster and the shorter person has the advantage if they get in real close. Get in close enough and the strikes of the bigger person are ineffective.

[AJ9000]

148. OK, your son is out-matched physically. Fighting the bully is out

except as a last resort in the case of self-defense. But that's not where you want to be if there's a physical mismatch.

Either this problem is going to fizzle out, or you are going to have to get your son to go through the proper channels at school to resovle it (or you may have to do it yourself.) If it comes to that, don't coerce him by saying that either he will do it or you'll do it for him. Rather, try to get him to understand that this is the best thing for him to do. If that doesn't work and the problem continues, you will have to intervene by contacting the school yourself. (Or as a compromise you can both do it.)

Don't listen to the "fight the bully" crowd. That advice may have worked 20 years ago, but things are different today. He might end up getting himself in a great deal of trouble at school as well as the bully. The school's position will be that he should have gone through the proper channels. And it sounds like this kid is good for pulling a weapon.

I still think you ought to consider having your son's knee examined by a Dr., this way you could check it to make sure it's okay, and you'd also have the beginnings of a lawsuit that you could at least threaten the other parents with if you have to.

Keep us posted on how things are going.

[XemaSab]

142. 8th grade is fucked up.

Just let it go.