Yaaaghh! Grammar Gripe!

[MorningGlow]

I am a grammar cop--I could bitch all day about the travesties perpetrated upon the English language.

Today's gripe--not grammar exactly, but who the hell came up with the term "test out"? Since when do we test something OUT? And test it out of WHAT? You can "try out" something, but even then, why the extra word? You try something. You test something. WHERE has "test out" come from? :puke:

:rant:

I feel better now. Anybody else got some grammar gripes so I don't feel so all alone in my anal retentiveness? :hi:

[RebelOne]

1. Lose, loose, loser, looser

Also their, they're and there are so often used incorrectly and it drives me up the wall. Also, the use of apostropes in plural nouns makes me wanna scream.

[MorningGlow]

3. All good ones

"Loose" for "lose" is one of my major pet peeves. And I can't believe all the house signs that say "The Smith's"--proudly carved/painted/printed/diecast by professionals. Just not professionals with good grammar.

[RebelOne]

13. Oh, I know. Everytime I see one of those signs

I want to knock on the door and point out the error.

[Arkansas Granny]

44. This reminds me of a homemade tattoo that a former neighbor

of mine had prominently displayed on his bicep:

"Born too loose"

[reyd reid reed]

2. From testing out of a class?

Taking the final at the beginning of the course and passing it so you don't have to take the class and still get the credit?

That's the only time I've ever heard it used -- but I don't get out much. And I've got a whole lot of 'em that make me crazy. Don't get me started...

:eyes:

[MorningGlow]

4. No, that one I can handle

To get out of a class by getting a high mark on a test at least makes SENSE. Nope, lately I've been hearing things like "I just got a new cell phone. I'm gonna test it out." YYeeeaaaagghhh.

[Xipe Totec]

58. Idiomatic expressions

phrases that don't literally mean what one would expect.

They are particularly deadly to those of us who learned English as a second language.

In this case, my theory is that "test it out" is a contraction of a phrase borrowed from car sales jargon:

"take it out for a test drive" makes sense. Shorten to "take it out for a test", then "test it out on the road", then simply "test it out".

English is full of such abbreviated expressions.

[Courtesy Flush]

5. Too many words!!!

I feel better now. Anybody else got some grammar gripes so I don't feel so all alone in my anal retentiveness?


Juuust kidding

[MorningGlow]

6. Poopyhead

:P

Admit it! It's a stupid term. Admit it, or I will taunt you a second time.

[Courtesy Flush]

7. I concede. Please relent!

[cwydro]

8. There

and their and they're. To and too. Oh, I could go on...

[begin_within]

9. You did good in pointing that out.

[Jamastiene]

10. The out part just means that you get out of doing something.

At my community college, I tested out of having to take any remedial math classes. I do not know who came up with the term, but it got me out of having to take any remedial math classes. :P

[cwydro]

11. it is just like

"where do you live AT?" That one drives my mom crazy...Also lie and lay. She gets NUTS about hose.

[MorningGlow]

12. I never noticed that one

until I had to teach a basic composition course at a local business school, and there was a whole section in the grammar and usage workbook about not saying "Where you at?"

Then I heard it all the time on "Cops"... (DH's favorite show, alas.)

[IntravenousDemilo]

32. It's these short directional adverbs, people just love 'em.

"Up" is another overused word, as in "listen UP" or "meet UP".

(I'll bet your mom gets really nuts about hose when she gets a run in one of them!)

[deucemagnet]

14. I don't even know if this is technically incorrect, but I hate it when..

...the verb to grow is used with certain objects, such as "to grow the economy" or "to grow our business". I have no problem with "to grow tomatoes" or "to grow one's hair", but the previous two are very irksome to me.

[MorningGlow]

17. Oh YUCK!

Hate it when somebody waters and fertilizes the economy.

That reminds me of another word shift that makes me shout back at the TV or radio--when meteorologists say "For the overnight..." Overnight is not a noun! Grf!

[novalib]

15. Nauseous!!!

Whenever I hear someone say, "I'm nauseous", I wonder if s/her realizes how much s/he is putting her/himself down.

"Nauseous" means "causing nausea in someone".

For instance, "The color of the room was nauseous" (Meaning: The color of the room caused me to have nausea.)

When a person has nausea, s/he is "NAUSEATED".

So, it is correct to say, "I'm nauseated" when you feel that you have nausea.

It is correct to say "I'm nauseous" ONLY when you are causing nausea in someone else.

[MorningGlow]

18. Makes me...er...sick. Yeah, that's the ticket. n/t

[novalib]

25. It NAUSEATES me!!

It DISGUSTS me (NOT: "It makes me disgusting").

[kay1864]

31. Merriam-Webster disagrees with you....

Main Entry: nau·seous
Pronunciation: 'no-sh&s, 'no-zE-&s
Function: adjective
1 : causing nausea or disgust : NAUSEATING
2 : affected with nausea or disgust
- nau·seous·ly adverb
- nau·seous·ness noun

usage Those who insist that nauseous can properly be used only in sense 1 and that in sense 2 it is an error for nauseated are mistaken. Current evidence shows these facts: nauseous is most frequently used to mean physically affected with nausea, usually after a linking verb such as feel or become; figurative use is quite a bit less frequent. Use of nauseous in sense 1 is much more often figurative than literal, and this use appears to be losing ground to nauseating. Nauseated is used more widely than nauseous in sense 2.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/nauseous

[IntravenousDemilo]

33. Merriam-Webster also disagrees with me in this case...

...much as an unripe apple would. The usage of "nauseous" meaning sick to the stomach is disputed, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

[kay1864]

52. ...

Well, they're much more of an authority than you, so they really don't have to "agree" to anything.

[IntravenousDemilo]

59. Nor do I.

There are other authorities that prescribe the opposite (I think Fowler's may be one) and I choose to agree with them. What's more, I said the question is in dispute, which is surely correct. And besides, "agree" was your word, so I used it as well; no need to get personal about it.

Finally, I'm Canadian, so I don't automatically consider Merriam-Webster the authority on language -- certainly not on spelling, anyway.

[kay1864]

81. Didn't mean to get personal

I meant to show that it's not a contest of equals, so the concept of "agree to disagree" doesn't really apply between you and them. M-W certainly has far more authority than anyone posting here.

[IntravenousDemilo]

87. Oh, I meant you and me, not me and them.

You choose one authority, I choose another. And so the matter is in dispute. That's all that was.

[Oeditpus Rex]

88. A dictionary is not an 'authority'

Dictionaries reflect common use. What's acceptable is not necessarily what's correct.



Edit: I thought about it, and in the sense that a dictionary can authorize a certain use, it is an authority. It can also be an arbitrator. But I stand by my original premise that it isn't the final word. (No pun intended.)

[Karenca]

34. "Nauseous for nauseated (experiencing nausea) has become so common that to call it an error

is to exaggerate.

First, the nauseous vs. nauseated debate highlights the fact that we speak and write a living language. Usage changes with time. What is considered correct changes, too, albeit at a slower rate. And what is considered correct is heavily affected by usage and effective conveyance of meaning. The editors of style manuals and dictionaries have recognized the shift in usage regarding nauseous/nauseated. So the occasional purist waving his/her arrogant flag demanding that we all must feel nauseated (when we'd rather feel nauseous) has very little real ammunition anymore."


http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:c3n5X96JCEAJ:www.techdirt.com/articles/20060420/026248.shtml+proper+use+word+nauseous&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=12

[novalib]

68. I Think I Understand

I think I understand what you are inferring here.

I also think that 50 states comprise the United States.

[Skittles]

60. saying I AM NAUSEOUS is like saying I AM POISONOUS

that is an easier way of explaining it to folk :)

[MethuenProgressive]

16. You can "test" your way "out" of having to take a class.

My oldest took and passed the tests for several math and science classes, got 95s or better, and received the class credits toward his diploma. Why waste sitting in a class for a whole school year if you already know the subject matter?

[zanne]

19. "Yeppir"

Can somebody tell me what the hell that means? How do you take the word "yes" and come up with "yeppir"?

[Zomby Woof]

20. A lot, not "alot"

It's two words. :-) One of my biggest peeves, lol.

[novalib]

27. That's Alright!

Not to worry.

Its alright.

[rhiannon55]

21. "Have went" drives me crazy.

As in "I have went to the store." Aarrgghh!! I'm amazed at how many people say "have went" instead of "have gone". The word "went" can stand alone, as in "I went...". But "gone" needs help from words like "have" or "had".

I know a college teacher who says "have went".

Je-ZUS!

[NewWaveChick1981]

22. OMG, that makes my brain hurt...

:grr: "Test out" is as bad as "teaching to the test", "up or down vote", "actioning an item", "ramp up", and many others. :puke:

[pwb]

23. starting a sentence with look or listen.

that really bothers me. maybe google will start a grammer check?.

[MorningGlow]

24. Oooh and

"Not fer nuthin', but..."

:wtf: does that mean?

[IntravenousDemilo]

35. When I'm really pissed off, I sometimes resort to "Look here!"

And when I want someone to pay particular heed to what I'm saying, I often preface it with "Listen..."

[Irishonly]

82. When did test out

become the phrase to describe clepp out? Clepp out was the phrase every one used when I was in college. Looking back, I can see why people always looked at us strangely when we said we had clepped out of a class. I don't know if was a midwestern term.

I hate hearing you know after sentences. I have to resist the urge to yell I don't know because you are telling me.

My grammar skills have slipped over the years but I also think Americans are lazy speakers. We also love slang. Where else can you be swift boated? There are so many others but I am having a mental block.

[novalib]

26. "I'm Like"

So she said, "I saw him yesterday with Vanessa".

And I'm like, "Oh, what was Vanessa wearing?"

And she's like, "Vanessa was wearing leather".

And I'm like, "No!"

And she's like, "For real!"

And I'm Like, "Get OUT!"

And she's like, "Like, you get out".

And I'm like, "Totally"

You Like??!!

[MorningGlow]

28. ROFL!

Aw man thank you--I needed that! It's been such a day but that made me snarf. (I work around college kids so I hear conversations like that a LOT!) (Alot?)

Oh that made me think of another pet peeve--people who put hyphens everywhere: "Thank-you for the flowers." :banghead:

[novalib]

30. Well, I'm Like....

Well, I'm like TOTALLY glad that you're like totally cool with what I wrote.

And I'm like totally bummed that your day was like totally uncool.

So I'm like totally hoping that you're like totally gonna chill.

I'm gonna totally eat something like totally good like for dinner.

[MorningGlow]

39. Totally! n/t

[IntravenousDemilo]

36. But...

The hyphen is required if you say, "I'm sending him a thank-you card for the flowers."

There are occasions when people omit hyphens where they belong, and that irritates me more. For instance, though you don't need a hyphen in "The piece of bowel is 1.5 cm in length", you do need one in "This is a 1.5-cm length of bowel", since it's a compound adjective. I got fired from my last job because I insisted on using this correct construction in a medical transcription and wouldn't back down when the doctor said it was wrong.

[MorningGlow]

40. Oh absolutely

Sorry I wasn't clear. I am a hyphen freak--I loves me some compound adjectives. I apply them all over the place--where it's appropriate. I just can't stand it when people misuse my lovely little horizontal line, applying it to anything and everything because, for instance, they once saw the compound adjective "thank-you note" and forever after assume that "thank you" needs a hyphen, no matter what the form it takes in the sentence.

[reyd reid reed]

73. My daughter does that....

when she starts, I'll hold up my hand and start counting how many times she says 'like'. She gets flustered because she knows what I'm doing and it makes her aware.

A few nights ago, she was relating a story about her best friend and I got up to 47. I'm afraid of how many it would have been if I wasn't counting.

[Nikia]

108. On a realted note "I go", "she goes"

Used just like "I'm like"

[nuxvomica]

29. I see nothing wrong with "test out"

The "out" implies the expectation of a definitive outcome which "test" alone doesn't.

[Hubert H. Hubert]

37. "try and"

This one makes me want to paint "TRY TO" on a 2x4 and whack the offender upside the head with it.

[IntravenousDemilo]

38. Some people can't distinguish between "bring" and "take".

"Bring" is directed towards your present location. "Take" is directed away from where you are.

I mean, really, it's not "I'm going now. I'll bring those papers home with me." Didn't these people watch Sesame Street?

[Redstone]

41. And how about "print out?" What's wrong with just "print?"

Redstone

[MorningGlow]

42. Gah! It's everywhere!

I suspect a government plot.

[Redstone]

43. And maybe this is a regionalism, but people in CT talk about "passing someone out"

on the highway, instead of just passing them.

Redstone

[MorningGlow]

47. Okay, that's just evil

Your state wins the prize for misuse of "out"!

[Redstone]

50. I yell at my older son every time he says it (he grew up here; I didn't). So at least

you can take some comfort in knowing that I'm trying to fight it.

Redstone

[Guava Jelly]

45. You would shoot me on sight than

I am the biggest grammar criminal.

[MorningGlow]

46. Nahhhh

(Insert goomba voice here) (and I can get away with that because I come from a long line of goombas): You, I like. :hi:

[Guava Jelly]

49. thank you for the mercy :o)

I promise ta try ta lern ta be all literate and stuff :)

[Renew Deal]

48. Here is an explanation.

Here is an example from Dictionary.com.

4. to a state of exhaustion, extinction, or depletion: to pump a well out.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/out

[MorningGlow]

62. Thanks, but I'm not buyin' it

"Pump a well out" makes sense--pump it till it's dry of water. But "test out" a product or something till it's...what...dead? out of existence, so it vanishes into thin air due to exhaustion? Nope, until just about a year or so ago, products were "tested"--full stop. This "test out" thingie is new and dang it, I don't like it! :P

[Redstone]

51. "Waiting on" someone. The ONLY time you wait ON someone is if you work

in a restaurant as a server. Otherwise, you wait FOR someone.

Redstone

[reyd reid reed]

54. And even then, it's questionable.

When you're a server, you're serving.

"Tooken" drives me insane. There's no such word!!!!

And I heard a brand-new one today.

"Intoxification"

:eyes:



edited because I remembered another one - using the wrong word...for instance, another one of today's fun ones: saying 'intersected' instead of 'intercepted' until I wanted to scream.

Okay...I'm done. I'm not going to click on this thread again no matter what occurs to me.

For my sanity.

:hi:

[Redstone]

55. Tooken? TOOKEN? My ears would melt if I heard that.

Redstone

[reyd reid reed]

56. Yup. Tooken.

And I hear it all the time. No wonder I'm insane.

[Redstone]

57. Let me whisper in your ear of gerunds, and subjunctives, and sundry other

grammatational goodies, and mahyap it will bring you peace...

Redstone

[reyd reid reed]

65. Just keep whispering

those little goodies that are so essential to proper expression and I'm yours forever...


:loveya:



Oh...and for the record, I tried. I really, really tried.

[Redstone]

75. Well, I, uh, you know, I mean, I'd, um, you see, I, ahem, well...whoa.

Redstone

[IntravenousDemilo]

61. "Intoxification" sounds like a Bushism, which he likely came up with while "intoxificated". n/m

[reyd reid reed]

64. The madness is spreading...

it does sound like one, doesn't it? That's not where I heard it, though.

:scared:

[IntravenousDemilo]

78. I think you have a great handle...

...if I may be so forward.

[reyd reid reed]

80. Awwww...thank you.

:hug:

[undeterred]

53. I hate it when the transvestites perpetrate upon the English language too...

:bounce: :bounce:

[MorningGlow]

63. Yeah! Them TOO!

Darn them anyway!

[rug]

66. "Who the Hell" makes no sense. "Who in Hell" does.

[Xipe Totec]

67. I Love Irony

:thumbsup:

[Moochy]

72. Who the hell

is a shortening of the phrase 'Who in the hell'. 'in' just dropped out like those lazy prepositions occasionally do. :+

[rateyes]

69. Someone (not you) complaining about someone else's

bad grammEr! Aaaarrrggghhhhhhhhh.

[novalib]

70. "Different Than"

One thing differs from another.

So, one thing is different FROM another.

At least, that's my own opinion.

I hope you get what I am inferring here.

[reyd reid reed]

71. Yup...that one's right up there with

"On accident"

GAH!!!!

:crazy:

[Redstone]

76. Yes, I imply what you're inferring.

Redstone

[reyd reid reed]

90. Yes, but

does the inference you're implicationing make you want to do something different than what you would usually do, whether deliberately or on accident?

[Redstone]

111. Oh, goody. This one's still alive. I'll help keep it going by posting because I really

like reading this kind of thread (that's not sracasm).

Also, RRR will think of me whether she wants to or not because my reply will show up on her "my posts" list.

Redstone

[reyd reid reed]

112. And it did.

:hi:

And you...sarcastic? Never....























:eyes:

*smooches*

[Redstone]

113. The smooch is a very underrated small pleasure in life. I like 'em.

Redstone

[reyd reid reed]

116. When it comes right down to it,

it's the small pleasures that make life worth living. The little ones that we take for granted every day but, were they to disappear, we would miss desperately.

:hug::hug:

:loveya:

[Redstone]

118. Or the ones we DON'T have every day. Such as having someone else wash your hair.

How good does THAT feel?

Redstone

[Ediacara]

74. OK, grammar police, I have a question for you!

Funner and funnest. Why are they "not words."

I want an explanation, not a rote, "It makes you sound uneducated."

Why is big, bigger, biggest ok, but fun, funner, funnest not ok?

[Ediacara]

79. No takers?

I guess the explanation is just as I always suspected: there is no real reason, it's just "the way it is."

[nuxvomica]

83. Strictly speaking, "fun" is a noun while "big" is an adjective

The comparative and superlative word forms -- "-er" and "-est" -- apply to adjectives, like "funny", which can be modified to "funnier" and "funniest". It's not uncommon to see "fun" itself used as an adjective, as in "You're a fun guy." but it's primary use is as a noun.

[Ediacara]

115. That makes some sense

But I would argue that fun as an adjective is as common as fun as a noun.

[nuxvomica]

119. The frequency of it's use as an adjective is immaterial

Because it started out as a noun, the comparative and superlative forms remain noun-like. Language is a code that is dependent for ease of use on the gestalt of each word. While it doesn't bother most folks to hear "We had a fun time" it would bother many to hear "We had the funnest time." "We had the most fun time." may sound stodgy but it's nonetheless clear in meaning. We have no gestalt for "funnest" so when we hear it, it has to be deconstructed to be understood. That requires extra brainwork and the listener may, at least temporarily, think it's a new word that has nothing to do with "fun".
If, however, you want to promote forms like "funnest", you can. Convince enough people to use that form instead of "most fun" and it will prevail if it is found to be easier to use. The best way to do that is in poetry and song, especially if you can find rhymes for "funner" and "funnest". I've caught myself using the word "drownded" because I've listened to "Mary, Don't You Weep" too many times.

[novalib]

92. Not Just Funner, Funnest

It's not just funner and funnest.

It's also the case that we do not say gooder and goodest.

But I think the reason we don't say funner and funnest is that the word fun is normally used as a noun and not an adjective.

That is, "fun" is most commonly used like this: I had fun at the party.

It is sometimes used like this: I had a fun time at the party. (fun used as an adjective)

I suppose some people say, I had a funner time than you at the party, but I don't know many. A much more common way of expressing that though (and one which uses "fun" as a noun is like this: I had more fun than you at the party.

I don't know anyone who says: I had the funnest time at the party. This sentence is unclear because "funnest" can mean at least two different things: (1) I had more fun than anyone else at the party, or (2) At the party, I had the most fun of my life. (both (1) and (2) are clearer and both use "fun" as a noun.

Using "fun" as a noun -- and not as an adjective -- gives greater clarity in speaking. And using "more fun" and "most fun", instead of funner and funnest provide greater clarity.

[novalib]

93. "The reason is because"

It's not really that big a deal with me, but it bothers me to hear people say, "The reason is because......"

It is more correct to say, "The reason is that...."

[Ariana Celeste]

77. Grammar doesn't bother me.

If I can understand you, that's all that matters to me. Our language evolves, anyhow. ;)

[Reverend_Smitty]

86. I'm with you on that

The only time I have a low tolerance for bad grammar is in a formal academic paper. I guess also writing something for work you should know how to string two sentences together. But if I'm talking to someone or writing on a forum like this, it really doesn't matter to me as long as you don't sound like a total idiot.

[Oeditpus Rex]

96. Language evolves, yes

But that's too often used as an excuse for ignorance, laziness, etc.

If we hold hard to the "language evolves" excuse, before long "wut r u doin" will be acceptable outside chat rooms and text messaging. I can foresee newspapers with "OMG!" in headlines.

[Flaxbee]

84. "try and"... NO! you "try TO"

Drives me crazy, though very respected writers use "try and"...so perhaps that rule has officially relaxed. To try AND do something means you're trying, and you're doing something - two different activities. You usually want to TRY TO do something - as in, try TO be on time, not try AND be on time.

I want to try TO swim, not try AND swim.
I wan to try TO improve my tennis serve, not try AND improve....

[bertha katzenengel]

85. Split infinitives seem to be more acceptable than when I learned

not to split an infinitive. That just tears me. :grr:

[Oeditpus Rex]

89. I just read this in the local excuse

After rallying from a 14-0 first-half deficit to tie the game in the third quarter, the 'Balers watched Piedmont Hills quarterback Danny Cruz architect a game-winning drive that concluded with a 6-yard touchdown pass to Joe Follen with 2:30 left.

"Architect" is not a verb. If it were, it'd be the wrong one in that context.

[reyd reid reed]

91. *I* know that

and *you* know that...but you have to consider the source. These are the Three Marys people. And the Three Bobs (and a Bobbi). And the...

Well...it's all that hard-nosed reporting and looking under rocks in that great news town. It's gone to their heads.

Literally.

[Oeditpus Rex]

94. When they look under rocks, the hed is

GROUND FOUND



BTW — they're advertising for another education reporter.

:rofl:

[reyd reid reed]

95. We just hired a new designer

and I guess we're looking for another features reporter.

[Oeditpus Rex]

97. I think this is the fourth ed reporter since The Carnage

The one they've had for the last year or so was still in high school when she started.

[reyd reid reed]

98. Somehow that's just....wrong.

At least here, most of the staffers stick around. They might go from one section to another, but they stay.

[Oeditpus Rex]

99. Would *you* stay at the Flea Ranch?

:shrug:

[reyd reid reed]

101. We ain't talking about *me*

I'm a creature of habit and tend to stay Far past my welcome. But I see your point. It *is* the Flea Ranch, after all.

I wish I had that fuckin' degree, though...I'd jump on that features thing.

[Oeditpus Rex]

102. Funny, innit?

The median tenure of victims of The Carnage was around six years, and none had any ideas about leaving that I was aware of.

In the three years since The Carnage, they've gone through six EICs, five city editors and Dog knows how many reporters.

I gotta wonder if they think they're better off.

[reyd reid reed]

103. Bet they think they are.

They keep bringing in inexperienced kids who'll work for peanuts (okay...a lot of places do that) and then, when they start to figure it out, they bring in a new batch of Twinkies. It's like a Hostess bakery.

[Oeditpus Rex]

104. I dunno

Circulation's way down. You'd think they'd wonder if the revolving door has something to do with it.

[reyd reid reed]

105. Nope. Betcha anything

that they're looking everywhere else and blaming everything else. If they even bother. There's the little thing about them really not giving a shit. I mean...I haven't seen the print edition and I don't know that I'd want to...just look at what they put out.

It's scary. And it's sad. And it's obvious that the people putting it out don't know what they're doing and that the Powers That Be just don't care.

[Oeditpus Rex]

106. You're probably right

I imagine they're blaming the sales reps and the circ people.

Must be nice to never have to examine one's mistakes.

[reyd reid reed]

107. Tell me about it.

:eyes:

[KayLaw]

100. Product

Frizzy hair? Dry hair? You need product. Get some product.

When did this happen?

[Nikia]

109. I have a couple of friends who use borrow wrong

As in "I'll borrow that cd to you."
It just feels wrong. I think part of the reason is that it didn't seem to be a common grammar mistake where I grew up.
I know that I use incorrect grammar sometimes and hear incorrect grammar that doesn't bother me. That is because it doesn't sound bad since I grew up hearing it.

[reyd reid reed]

110. That's worse than

"Borrow off"


:eyes:

[trackfan]

114. Descriptive, rather than prescriptive, grammar will, in the long run,

appear to be more reasonable.

[bridgit]

117. what's that!?! transvestites are being perpetrated upon the queen's tongue...

why i never x(

[aein]

120. prescriptive grammar = Republican