curious: why do some people have such animosity toward reality TV

[donsu]

vs. fiction TV??

they rail on about reality TV as if it was some horrible thing.

true some reality TV is ridiculous, some banal but the same could be said for some fiction TV.

what is it about reality that gets them so worked up?

just curious.

[alarimer]

1. Because it's not really "reality" tv

It is fake as fictional tv but no one ever admits that. Heavily edited to manipulate whatever storyline they are trying to push.

[donsu]

2. but it's not as fake as fiction - of course it has to be edited and programmed

to make if conform to the time element. but it is real vs. fiction.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

4. But fiction doesn't even pretend to be real.

It's obvious that it's fiction.

[donsu]

20. of course fiction tries to appear real! good fiction makes you think it is

real. with bad fiction you are well aware it isn't real.

[skygazer]

21. So reality shows are like bad fiction?

Gotcha! :hi:

[donsu]

27. no, reality shows are not like fiction nor pretend to be so

nt

[skygazer]

28. You're taking this way too seriously

But in that spirit, of course they're like fiction. They certainly aren't like reality. As others have pointed out, they skew reality to fit the format of what their show aims to be. So it's a very scripted version of reality. Which is essentially fiction. And since it's fiction that doesn't resemble reality at all, by your own definition, that would make it bad fiction.

But what difference does it make? You seem to enjoy reality television, judging from your responses. So what does it matter what others think?

[Left Is Write]

38. No, fiction is billed as fiction.

Some is touted as realistic, but no one is claiming it's real.

[bighughdiehl]

81. cheesy

alarimer and lowell you are both right. I just worked behind the scenes(contracted myself for a day) of a reality tv show. It is highly manipulated and the program crew itself becomes so damn integral to the storyline. Some of the manipulation is for time/logistical reasons, but still, ugh. Yes, it is a lazy cheap way to fill air time.

[VespertineIconoclast]

3. It may have to do with the fact that people on reality shows are willing to do...

ANYTHING for whatever prize is being offered. At least with fiction tv, you can attribute amoral decisions and actions to the fault of the character not the actor or actress themselves. With reality shows, since these are "real" people portraying themselves, you can only blame the people themselves for making crappy judgments or doing horrible things. The more extreme the behavior the more horrible the reflection looks back on the society that created such a person....

But, then again maybe I’m over thinking it. ;)

[donsu]

9. take The First 48 Hours for example - what is fake about that?

or Design on a Dime. what's fake about them?

[VespertineIconoclast]

17. ...

I don't really understand what you are getting at...? I read your original post as more a philosophical question.... I for one don't pay attention to either fictional tv or reality tv enough to care one way or another about either. :shrug:

I will say that like almost everything in this world you will find good and bad representatives. Depending on your own preferences, you pay attention to whichever examples supports your own perspective....

[Drum]

5. Because so-called reality shows

are just regular TV shows that think they can get away without paying writers. So what we as viewers get is a chaotic mash of disorganized people just fucking around on-camera, slightly- and badly-edited.

I seem to recall that "reality" TV took off following a Writers' Guild strike...to fill the gap, producers tried going without writers, and invented a plethora of dumb scenarios that wouldn't require writers, actors, rehearsals or any dramatic dialogue...infinitely cheaper to produce, no?

With the current political climate and uncertain (or worse) economic times these days, Americans have eaten heartily from this trough of distraction/voyeurism, and as with all things have lowered their expectations and jettisoned a lot of the cerebral muscle required for concentration. I don't get into gladatorial games, but maybe our nation is going that way, like Rome did before the fall-of-Rome. You know what they say: Garbage in, garbage out.

Hey, life is short...why would I want to trade something good for something amateurish? Why would I want to replace real food with junk food? I'm glad I can still distinguish the difference, and regard my viewing hours as too valuable for badly-made programs of the "reality" genre.

[donsu]

10. I disagree with everything you said

there are all kinds of reality shows, maybe you have only watched a few of the lesser ones.

[Drum]

15. Oh well...guess we'll have to agree to disagree,

and yours was a post looking for opinions, wasn't it?

I just think that all of the ones ("reality" shows, that is) that I've stumbled across are devoid of characteristics that appeal to me. When I want reality, there's a lot of it out there available simply by switching off my TV and leaving my apartment. With all of the great movies I'm trying to catch up on, my work hours, and other things on TV that truly interest and "feed" me, I just have no extra time for those shows. When I do try to see them, I always end up feeling cheated.

Would you mind pointing out some of the better examples of the species, for those who are tired of the disappointments in playing hit-and-miss viewership? I'm not purely saying that there's nothing good in the genre, only that I haven't seen any yet, and based on what I've seen I can't imagine investing the time in investigating further.

:shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. Because the producers are too cheap to pay real writers and real actors

Even with the prize money and the exotic locations, "reality" shows cost less to produce than dramas or comedies.

If a drama or comedy has good writers and good actors, it can be an enriching and entertaining experience.

The few times I've looked in on "reality" TV, it's looked like a bunch of brainless narcissists doing idiotic, sometimes dangerous, sometimes immoral things for money.

Those kinds of programs are contributing to the dumbing down of America.

[donsu]

11. how do you know reality shows cost less?

nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. Because I've read articles about the trend

:-)

[hfojvt]

40. I thought it was the 'meaning' down

contributing to a meaner, rougher nation.
It's all about greed, and casting some people out. Winner take all.

I don't watch the shows, but they are advertised constantly when I am watching other TV shows.

[Rude Horner]

7. One of my reasons is that

I'm tired of these shows being shoved down my throat by so-called "news" programs. Hell, I tune in to my morning local news while I'm getting ready for work, trying to catch up on the news, and I have to sit through who got kicked off of the island on "Survivor" last night. :wtf: It's the same thing with national news. Hells Bells, that's what shows like "Entertainment Tonight" are for. Not the damn NEWS! :puke:

[donsu]

12. isn't that the fault of the TV station programmer, not the fault of the

reality show?

[Rude Horner]

33. The question wasn't about "fault"

Yes, you're right that it's the station's fault, but that wasn't the question. It's one of the reasons that I don't like reality shows. Their perceived great importance in our daily lives by the media.

[Deja Q]

8. 10 things:

1. It's not real
2. It promotes the worst within the human condition
3. It is devolved
4. Richard Hatch didn't report his winnings to the IRS
5. You thought "America's Funniest Videos" was bad enough
6. They make fiction like "Jerry Springer" more appealing
7. You thought "Jackass" was bad.
8. What does one learn from these shows?
9. There's no creativity in "reality" TV. Even the stupid 'fictional' TV gets some credit for trying to be creative
10. Smurfette can never be a contestant in a 'reality' show - that bites. x(

[donsu]

13. what is the "worst within the human condition"?

America's Funniest Videos are "bad" ? who knew!

just because Jackass is bad that makes all reality shows bad?

get serious, not all fiction is creative.

Smurfette! lol

[Deja Q]

19. You mean I need to repeat what the other responders had?

Eep...

[skygazer]

14. Judging from your answers to other posts, you have your mind made up

So why ask? People like what they like. Personally, I don't have much use for most of them because I don't care for the premises which are usually quite thin and boring to me. I also don't like the way so many of them seem to pit people against each other in somewhat underhanded and malicious ways. Nor do I like the way so many of them are based on having people do things they wouldn't normally do for money. I find that terribly shallow.

I don't watch much television anyway but the things I do like to watch are things that make me think, ponder, work my brain. I've yet to encounter a reality show that does that - they seem for the most part to be pretty empty entertainment. Some people like that - I don't.

[Drum]

16. Agreed!

:hi:

[Az]

18. A couple of reasons

First and foremost is its lazy. Creating stories is an art. Reality TV is just pitting people against people. For many it is just the dumbing down of America.

For me though the thing that is most iritating about reality TV is the fact that they pass it off as reality. Its not. Reality TV places people in artificial situations and has them operate under inhumane conditions. For example if stranded on an island survivors would not vote each other off the island. They would struggle to survive together. But instead reality TV creates conditions more in common with corporate motivations than human motivations and then has its participants act out the parts.

Reality shows teach the audience that social darwinism is the way of the world. This is simply not true. We are not just concerned with our own advancement. We are also an empathetic species. We care about each other. But this is lost in the competition of reality shows. They dehumanize us. They are the furthest thing from reality.

[Drum]

25. Well put.

:thumbsup:

[smirkymonkey]

76. Well said - that's exactly how I feel about it.

I don't even really watch television except for the occasional news show or Comedy Central. I think most television shows are idiotic, but reality television is beyond idiotic.

[NMMNG]

77. What Az said

I don't enjoy watching faux reality that tries to pass itself off as reality and people stabbing each other in the back for rewards.

[donsu]

22. hhhmmm guess I need to learn some more psychology to understand

why some people dislike reality shows.

[skygazer]

23. All you really need to do is read the replies

But here's a thought - why not tell us why you DO like them? Perhaps that will enlighten us as to their inherent value as a source of entertainment.

[donsu]

29. because we are watching people not actors. people in real situations

(and yes they are set up situations but they are real not a 'set situation') and I've always been fascinated 'people watching'.

I'm a great fan of fiction but for the last several decades fiction on TV has been 'less'. novel fiction is much, much better. TV story lines and acting leaves much to be desired.

lately I've been watching Six Feet Under which is the best fiction show I've seen in decades. Excellent! I'd like to buy the DVDs of the show but it is way too expensive.

[skygazer]

31. Cool - that explains why you like them

I can accept that - it's a valid reason and I'm glad you enjoy them. I on the other hand, don't. There's no real mystery about that - it's just a matter of tastes and opinions. I don't expect you to like what I do any more than you should expect me to like what you do. If we all liked the same things, the world would be a very boring place.

[Left Is Write]

39. Because people's tastes aren't all the same, of course.

Did you expect everyone to like reality shows?

Why do some people dislike action films? Comedic romances? Tearjerkers? Westerns? News magazines? Cooking shows?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. Mainly the lack of creativity.

Reality TV doesn't have writers, and the contestants are generally boring people themselves, despite the fact that they are not professional actors -- "authenticity" doesn't guarantee interest.

The only reality TV show I've seen that takes creativity on the contestants' part is Last Comic Standing. Otherwise, I just see a bunch of vapid, empty people I could care less about.

As a writer of sorts, I can create far more interesting characters than those shown on reality TV, though, in fairness, a lot of non-reality TV is devoid of creativity as well.

However, in defense of some reality TV, I have to admit that many of their shows are very diverse in terms of ethnicity, gender, etc., much more than non-reality TV in a lot of cases, so that is one saving grace.

[SPKrazy]

72. They Are Equivalent to "Pro Wrestling" IMO

I don't like that either.

they are contrived, fake, and boring IMO

That said, I'm sure that they serve some purpose in this world, as in to give people a mindless distraction from reality which is fine, so I hold no animosity towards reality tv. Maybe it shouldn't be called reality tv.

I used to watch wife swap until it became obvious that they went for the most controversial swaps.

That's interesting, but I just didn't get into it anymore.

:shrug:

Give me Paris Hilton's the simple life anyday


:spray: (totally kidding)

[GOPisEvil]

26. Because some people enjoy telling others how to live their lives.

For crying out loud, let people like what they like. Judge people in their entirety, not by what they use for mental candy.

[donsu]

30. I'm not judging anybody - just trying to understand the animosity

nt

[GOPisEvil]

61. I wasn't saying you were being judgemental.

Just that attitude is one reason for the animosity. :)

[zingaro]

32. wow this is a big subject

I don't really watch much television but I can tell you why I despise "reality TV" as a genre more than I dislike "regular TV" as a genre.

Regular TV is fictional. (Almost) everybody knows that once they're past the age of rationalizing the difference between real and pretend. However, reality TV purports to be a slice-of-life, but it's not. And that is precisely my problem with reality TV.

Not only is it based on a false premise (that it's "real") but it encourages the participants to either base their actions on what will be the most favorable (so they get the most "votes") or it allows others to judge the participants in ways that make me uncomfortable.

I don't encourage my kids to judge others. In our uber-PC society, we try so hard to reserve judgments of others. And yet we have this multimedia revenue generator that's all about judging.

It seems very illogical to me, and it seems as though our relativist-PC act is just that: one big fat act to make good face time, but it's only skin deep, culturally speaking. Obviously people *want* to make judgments because reality tv is all over the place.

So, it's just contradictory, on SO many levels, to where I'd like to see things headed. And that, in a nutshell, is why I personally despise "reality TV". I hope it made sense to you.

[QMPMom]

34. I think it's because there is too damn much of it. Survivor was

good the first season or two but then it seemed like every night there were new "reality" shows being introduced. I gave up on Survivor the year they made the people drink cow blood. It was sickening.

The only one I watch now is The Amazing Race. I really like that show a lot. I also liked Beauty and the Geek, but the rest of them are just not interesting to me.

[ElboRuum]

35. I should think that obvious.

It takes more work to come up with a compelling fictional concept, and the result is much more satisfying. Good storytelling trumps watching craven pathogenic liars sell each other out for the promises of fame and fortune. Good storytelling trumps watching people assemble motorcycles the same way for 5 seasons. Good storytelling trumps watching the same cops arrest the same idiots every week.

If I wanted to see the Douchebaggery of the Real, I'd go out on my front porch and wait for it to pass by, as it does so frequently.

And the really irritating part of reality TV is that it is cheaper to produce as there's very little use for scriptwriters, set designers, and the other people it takes to put together a work of fiction, so as long as people keep watching it, they'll keep making it, even to the exclusion of other fictional television.

Oh, one other difference worth noting:

True, some fictional TV is awful. But ALL reality TV is awful.

[xmas74]

36. I don't.

There are a few that I discuss them w/ all the time.
I'm pretty sure we annoy half the Lounge w/ our discussions.

[hfojvt]

42. you think so?

I would find that odd. I mean, why should a thread about 'Lost' or 'The Amazing Race' or any other TV show be annoying to anybody?

Except that maybe most of us want or expect people we like or respect to like the same things we do. So it's like a betrayal when we see them wallowing in some inanity, we say 'et tu, xmas74?' :cry:

[xmas74]

45. I don't know.

I remember a few flames over it a year or so ago in a thread about Survivor.

And we all like something that someone else doesn't care for. That is what makes us unique.

[idgiehkt]

37. my opinion

because actors, who tend to be liberal, bitched about it mightily at first, because it put alot of them out of work. They have liberal entourages, and Hollywood in general is liberal, so 'reality tv is bad' became a meme. Now it is some kind of elitist trend to be anti-reality tv. People say they hate it, but they don't know why. Their answers rarely make sense, as there are as many kinds of reality tv as there are fiction. I think some of it has become exploitive, like "The Real World" which used to be a great show in the early days. But I can rarely sit through a scripted drama or comedy these days without feeling insulted in about 15 different ways. No matter how you look at it reality tv for the most part is more real than any kind of scripted tv, which never, ever portrays people as the complex, unpredictable entities we are. Never even comes close. I've always been a fan, though, back to the days of "Rescue 911" which might have been the first ever 'reality' show, even though it acted out real events. If I watch tv at all these days it's either CSI (Vegas only) or a reality show like The First 48, or Survivor. Reality has totally ruined scripted dramas for me, which I can see now are total and complete fantasy, everyone is beautiful and predictable. Blah.

[AngryAmish]

41. Because personal dignity is important

When I see someone degrade themselves it makes me wince. To have it done on television (and knowing that you are degrading yourself going into it) makes it all the worse. The worst thing is people who totally lack the insight to realize they are degrading themselves and are proud to participate in these shows.

[hippywife]

43. I don't like or watch either.

It's all garbage. But at least with most fiction TV, people aren't willing to go make absolute fools and asses of themselves for a little notoriety and cash.

[Evoman]

44. The same reason I don't like fictional books without stories.

I like to watch things with developing stories....not just a bunch of desperate clowns who want to break into the biz. Its probably the same reasons I hate almost all sitcoms...they aren't funny, and there are no stories. I make an exception for some truly funny shows (like Scrubs, My Name is Earl, and The Office).

I like non-fiction, only when I actually learn something. I might even find things like Survivor temporarily interesting if they actually put a bunch of people who could cooperate, into a realistic environment. But I'm guessing that show would get old quick. Overall I find Reality TV abysmal. I mean, apart from Amazing Race (which is only tolerable because you get to see them visit different countries) can you tell me one reality show worth watching?

[graywarrior]

46. Because they showcase freaks.

But I love freaks.

[xmas74]

47. I love freaks too.

Maybe that's why I'm a fan of reality tv.

[graywarrior]

48. There's only a few I can watch.

The show has to have a "rejection" process in order for me to watch. I lurve seeing some freak get sent home because they couldn't keep pace with the other freaks.

[xmas74]

49. Of course.

The best part is seeing people rejected. Survivor has had some good moments in the past when people have been sideswiped and voted out.

[graywarrior]

50. Those bachelor/bachelorette shows are rejection favorites.

Especially when they reach the final two. Sometimes, that's the only show I'll watch.

[xmas74]

51. Those are my guilty pleasures.

I'm waiting for that Flavorette show on Vh1 in January. Twenty guys fighting over her fugliness-should be a fantastic night of viewing!

[graywarrior]

52. It's like watching rats give birth.

[xmas74]

53. May I borrow that line?

You've explained reality dating shows better than I ever could.

[graywarrior]

54. Be my guest. I'll have forgotten it by the next time I watch SuperNanny

[xmas74]

55. Another horrid guilty pleasure!

[graywarrior]

56. I actually hate that show. But I'll watch it if Mr. Gray is not around.

[xmas74]

58. I only watch it at work.

I have a coworker who tapes it and watches it sometime during the week. She leaves the tape (and a few other shows) at work.

There's not alot to do at 4 am so I watch her tape. Always good for a laugh and it always makes me feel better about my own child at home.

[LostinVA]

57. I LOVE reality TV -- well, certain shows

Survivor, TAR, America Idol, Top Chef, Project Runway....

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

68. Top Chef is fun. And you know how I love Trading Spouses now.

I MISSED it on Friday night, you know. I was busy paying attention to something better.

[LostinVA]

70. Really? What?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

71. Hmm...

you see, there's this pervy, librarian down in VA. Oh man, she's been kind of taking up a lot of my time lately.

[LostinVA]

73. That's better than Trading Spouses

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

74. Oh absolutely.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

60. Reality TV is mainly Vapid and shallow.

Ever notice the people they have on there are not real people? They're just pretty people who are most of the time stupid and vain? The contests are the worst. I do like the shows where they follow people around, like Dog the Bounty Hunter, The Osbournes, Etc. I did like one other reality show, Joe Schmo. It was great.
Duckie

[bertha katzenengel]

62. It panders like a whore to the lowest common denominator. Some

fiction shows can make you think, some are truly funny, some are good drama, and some are trash.

But reality TV is all crap. It shows humans at their basest. Their most vapid. Their greediest. And certainly their stupidest.

It panders to the lowest common denominator. And witness it's incredible explosion of popularity here, in the 21st century, when the first full-term president of the century is the Lowest Common Denominator president.

Of course, YMMV. Which is one of the points of a message board. :hi:

[donsu]

63. Trading Spaces is stupid? Intervention is stupid? Mercat Manor is

stupid? Junk Brothers is stupid? real people entering a real contest to win real money is stupid? Sell This House is stupid? Designer's Challenge is stupid? Trading Spouses and Wife Swap is stupid? two shows that show the various kinds of american families.

[bertha katzenengel]

64. "Trading Spouses" and "Wife Swap?" Absolutely!!

I don't care if they can be considered "the various kinds of American families." I find the concept of "wife swapping" abhorrent. Whether actual sex occurs between the participants on these shows doesn't matter to me. The concept is IMO an example of base human behavior -- not to mention the ridiculous hypocrisy in the phrase "the sanctity of marriage" -- and to put such garbage on television again panders to the lowest common denominator.

American culture is already in the crapper. How much lower can we go? I don't know, but I'm sure "reality TV" won't disappoint.

The others I have never seen, or don't know what they're about, or don't consider "reality TV," such as "Trading Spaces." Our definitions of "reality TV" obviously differ a great deal.

[donsu]

65. maybe you have hit on the problem of understanding the animosity

what 'reality TV' means to people.

to me 'reality TV' means any show that isn't fiction. any show that uses actors is not a reality show. (hosts are not actors)

what does 'reality TV' mean to you?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

67. Oh man, I love "Trading Spouses"

Pretty much because I always end up really liking the one wife and hating the other one. It's a good show to watch, if you feel like bitching and making fun of someone.

Like the episode with the rich spoiled wife and her obnoxious trophy Australian husband with the lobstah man and his really nice wife. Pure gold.

[S n o w b a l l]

66. I enjoy some shows...

I tend to like the shows that involve some kind of talent competition. Project Runway, Top Chef, American Idol, Dancing With the Stars. Oh, and I did get caught up in the Flavor of Love train wreck. My tv watching mainly consists of news shows so after Tucker, Dobbs, Hardball, Keith & Scarborough an occasional reality show is actually a healthy escape.

[terrya]

69. Some of it is extremely silly.

"Surivivor" is a good example. The whole tribal thing and the torches and all of that. It's silly. I refuse to take it seriously.

[Rob H.]

75. I like *some* reality TV

Mainly things like Classic Rides (I think that's what it's called) on DIY and Biker Build-Off on The Discovery Channel because I have a long-running love affair with motorcycles. (American Chopper annoys me, though.) As far as Survivor and The Amazing Race and Dancing with the Stars, etc., though? Yawn.

[chknltl]

78. Because we all have problems accepting the differences in others.

I believe that we all do this as a way of feeling superior. For example if I were to say; "Jerry Springer is a stupid show.", then I am suggesting that I feel that shows I like are better than Jerry Springer. This further suggests that I feel that I am "better" because of my "better taste" than those who watch Jerry Springer.

This can apply to just about anything that folks can look down their noses at other folks for doing or liking. (Egads, he drives a________! How can anyone in their right mind drive a______?!?!.....or "Did you see what she was wearing??? Tramp!" and etc. This is part of the human condition...NONE of us are above it. (Well maybe Ghandi or Jesus but they haven't posted here lately).

Being aware of this does not exclude one from this condition either...how many of us have longed to change the opinion of a freeper for instance. As hard as it is for me to admit it, freepers have a human right to their opinion, I will feel superior to them for it as they of course feel superior to me for mine.

At risk of getting into my personal belief system, I feel that this condition is a good thing as it is a crucial part of the lesson of life. Absolute acceptance of others equates to absolute love for ones fellow human, something that only transcendent beings are capable of. If we were all transcendent beings then why bother being incarnate? Where would be that delicious uniqueness that is "I"?

I hope this provides food for thought to all who read it, I generally am not subject to such musings here in the lounge but in light of the increasing amounts of flame wars throughout the big DU I feel it might be worth considering. Acceptance, though difficult, is not impossible in every case and can make for a better DU. Think of the many great minds who have drifted away from the DU because of these flame wars...it is sadly, a loss to all of us.

There, I have had my one good thought for the year, glad that is out of the way. Now I can feel superior to y'all by not having gotten into the "which is better and why" argument in-regards to what is watched on TV...but just for a minute. (chknltls NEVER feel superior to ANYONE so give me that minute please)
thanks for listening
c

[Skittles]

79. I find it disgusting

people humiliating themselves for money

[Lowell]

80. No story, no talent, no plot

for the most part they are just a waste of time and an excuse for the networks to not hire writers to produce real programs. If I want reality TV I'll watch the news. Oh, . . . I take that back, most of the news today is the best fiction on TV.