Depression Truly Sucks...

[RetroLounge]

:-(

RL

[lizziegrace]

1. It certainly does

:hug:

[Writer]

2. Oh no, Retro...

I'm so sorry! I've been battling that for about twenty years, and it never gets easy. If you ever want to PM me to just talk it out, feel free.

:hug:

[Deja Q]

3. Understandable...

:hug:

That's a clean and innocent :hug: too. No groping. Contrary to popular belief, I am respectable...

[devilgrrl]

4. Doesn't it?

:hug:

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

5. It truly does

And it is a lifelong battle. :hug:

[RevolutionaryActs]

6. Aw

:( :hug:



Maybe posting naked pictures would help? ;)

[SPKrazy]

22. Could You Send Me Some?

:hug:

how ya doing Rev,

I still missed you while you were gone!

[RetroLounge]

72. Couldn't hurt.

I'll look forward to seeing yours...

:9

RL

[seemunkee]

7. Yes it does

I hope you are getting some help, for your sake and the sake of those little imps of yours.

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. I am so sorry, Retro....

My mother suffered from it for years. The holiday season always is a bad time for depression.

[Oeditpus Rex]

9. It sure ain't in my 'five'

And I'm gonna run out of Lexapro before I can see my doctor again. x(

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

42. You should call him (or her)

Your doctor might be able to phone in a prescription for just a few days if you're running short.

[Oeditpus Rex]

45. It's not a prescription

She gives me samples because I don't have insurance.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

92. You have a nice doctor

If she keeps you afloat on free samples because you don't have insurance, then that shows she really cares.

[TommyO]

85. UH OH!

See if they can call in a refill prior to your appointment. Going a few days without your SSRI is nasty, I know this from personal experience.

Edited to add: OK, if I read the entire thread before responding I would have read about your situation. Good luck.

[SeattleGirl]

10. Yes it does, RL

I know, first hand. :hug:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

11. Never battled a chronic case of it meself, but it just sounds horrendous.

:hug:

[bridgit]

12. yep...

[graywarrior]

13. Yup.

[crim son]

14. Never stop fighting it.

There are so many of us who understand and care :hug:

[Bullwinkle925]

15. Indeed.

Take care of yourself.

[FedUpWithIt All]

16. Yes sir, it surely does...

:hug:

Warm hugs do not. Hold in there.

[Redstone]

17. And it's dangerous. Get yourself some fucking help, NOW! Therapy AND medication.

Don't screw around with depression. It's NOT "just feeling sad." It's a chemical imbalance in your brain, and you NEED to treat it, or it can fuck up your life big time.

Redstone

[BarenakedLady]

18. Uhm hello?

150mg on Zoloft and still no improvement. PM me anytime you need to vent. :hug:

[SPKrazy]

21. That's A Load Of Zoloft

not going to give medical advice because I'm not qualified to do that.

I took Zoloft once, made me mad as a march hare. I was manic on that stuff. Couldn't sit still, couldn't stop talking, cracking jokes at inappropriate times. Hell it was fun, but, it made me a nervous wreck after about a week of that.

Now I take Paxil and Klonipin, and I stay a little closer to where I feel I should be.

I'm sorry you aren't getting relief my friend. Maybe Zoloft isn't for you. Sometimes another med will help.

:hug: :hug:

[BarenakedLady]

23. Yup

Giving it about another 3 weeks before I switch to Effexor (I think), plus I'm on Clonazapam for anxiety. I'm totally screwed up. LoL.

[SPKrazy]

27. Sounds Like It

klonipin=clonazapam

Loved effexor-blood pressure went up

me=screwn too:thumbsdown:

[BarenakedLady]

29. Great

We should start a group of screwn morans! :bounce:

[SPKrazy]

32. Hi, My Name Is__________, and I'm a Screwn Moran!

:rofl:

oh well, I feel I'd be in good company.

maybe the "screwn morans" are really the sane ones, and the ones who think they aren't are the insane ones.

I'd buy that!

:yoiks:

[KitchenWitch]

48. I, too, am a screwn moran

I am on 200 mg Zoloft! 100 or 150 does not even TOUCH my depression, but 200 works.

[BlueIris]

49. Oh, KW. I didn't know you were "one of us."

I knew someone else who took 200 mg per day, if that makes you feel better.

[KitchenWitch]

50. I think there are more of "us" than even we know!

[mzteris]

62. Maybe that's why I like this place so much . . .

Trying to climb out myself.

[SPKrazy]

81. Well, That's Good It Works

What I'm taking is working most of the time.

At times it seems like it peters out, and other times I'm a little overhyped IMO

but it beats the hell out of the way it was before for sure!

:shrug:

[NoSheep]

82. What helped me: Older drugs

Nortriptiline first...then switched after several years and lots of side effects to Desipramine which works great with no side effects. The newer drugs don't work for me either.

[BarenakedLady]

83. Wow

I was on Desiprimine about 15-20 years ago, that worked wonders. Actually my therapist suggested I try that again. But my gp put me on Zoloft. Perhaps I should look into it again. Thanks for the advice.

[SPKrazy]

90. Took Nortriptilene

Made me whacky

of course, maybe I'm that anyway

got really nervous taking it?

[NoSheep]

107. My experience with it:

It definately took the depression away. I had been really bad for 5 yrs straight. Couldn't work, visit people etc. Then I got great therapy and Nortriptaline. I TOTALLY lost all my ability to play music and do art. I didn't care about anything passionately, but I was happy. It was the weirdest thing. I thought, OKAY, this is the price I have to pay to not be crazy. I'll just be really dull and happy.

I took it for years and I was able to start a career and all that...but all along I had to up the dosage to keep the depression away. When I got to 150 mg., I couldn't remember what I did the day before. My memory was totally wiped out. But I was happy.

Then, I discussed it with my doctor and we tried a newer drug that didn't work...then we tried Desipramine.

It was great. ALL the side effects went away. No more memory loss, no more dull person (I started doing art and playing music again) no more dry mouth, no more blurred vision. I've been taking Desipramine for about 6 years now and it's great.

[SPKrazy]

116. I Didn't Last That Long

had a shrink who was going to put me on a "cocktail" of meds

that seemed to change after I got more nervous taking that.

So we stuck with Paxil and Clonezepam, and propanolol.

No longer take the propanolol. Do take the Paxil in higher doses, and the Clonezepam in lower doses.

[undeterred]

19. Yeah

but eventually you get past it :hug:

[SPKrazy]

20. It Does Indeed Retro!

I've taken just about every antidepressant (SSRI and SSNRI) over the course of 12 or more years. I was depressed long before that. I've spent 6 years seeing a therapist. Support groups of different stripes and problems.

The fact is, that it is just a one day at a time deal. Carpe Diem! For tomorrow may suck again is becoming my rather cynical philosophy these days.

It appears you aren't alone by a long shot my friend.

so hang in there!

:pals:

[S n o w b a l l]

28. Just wanted to say. ..

yes, I'm totally with and understand. :hug:

[SPKrazy]

34. Thanks!

:hug:

[leftofthedial]

24. sometimes it blows

If we could just get the two together, we could play harmonica

[S n o w b a l l]

25. Yep...

it sucks beyond belief. Hope you start feeling better.

[SPKrazy]

33. Yeah It Does!

you okay Engi?

:hug:

[S n o w b a l l]

37. yeah, Southpaw....

I'm think I'm ok...thank you for asking. :hug:

I hope you're ok too. :)

[SPKrazy]

38. Good Deal!

I'm making it!

:hug:

[Roon]

26. I'm clinically depressed

I have lost two relationships in the last few years, have had hiv for 17 years. bla bla bla. My shrink has me on four different medications and I am doing pretty well in the last 6 months.

But you are right, depression does suck. I have lived with it untreated for many years before I got help.

[Generic Brad]

30. But it can be beaten

I was able to bounce out of it last year thanks to a combination of my wife's understanding, fishing, and looking forward to DU every night. I hope you can find something that works for you.

[ThomCat]

31. Yes, it does.

:hug:
I hope it passes.

My depressions tend to last a few weeks and then fade.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

35. Oh, yes, it does, my dear Retro.........

I only am a little depressed these days, and mine will pass, hopefully soon.....

But I do have some small idea of how you're feeling, sweetie.......

I really hope you find relief, and soon.........:hug:

[Left Is Write]

36. It does.

:hug:

[fizzgig]

39. i'm with you on that one

all you can do is take it one step at a time

[LynzM]

40. Love and hugs to you, RL

I wish I could come over and keep you company over mugs of something good... :hug:

[Beausoir]

41. Yes. It is a dark tunnel with no light at the end.

I have suffered with it myself, but not to an extreme level.

My MIL has MD and she has struggled for years with depression as a side effect.

Fortunately, she knows to ask for more help.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

43. I'm a big believer

in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Twelve weeks with a really good therapist can do wonders.



Also, the book "Feeling Good," the bible of CBT, is a really good read. I highly recommend it. You can buy it here:

http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-Therapy-Revised-Updated/dp/0380810336

[plcdude]

67. I have used the

first edition as a resource for students and find it to be helpful for them. Nice to know there is a new edition. Are there new things in it?

[Der Blaue Engel]

44. It so does

:( I've been feeling guilty lately about not being able to overcome mine...like I ought to have been able to "kick it" after being treated for 8-1/2 years. But that's crap. It's not my fault, and it doesn't make me a bad person. We all need to be kinder to ourselves.

Here's a big group hug for all of us: :grouphug:

[u4ic]

46. I've had a couple of episodes in my life

So I understand what you mean.

I'm sorry, RetroLounge. :hug: :hug: :hug:

[KitchenWitch]

47. I have depression as well

I have been treated for it on and off for 20 years.

:hug:

As with other things, there are good days and bad.

[Guava Jelly]

51. And this is the season for it unfortunatly

I hope you get out of your funk.
I sure as shit have been there myself.
You sure have tons of friends here on du that care about you.
And a few beautiful children. Thats something to be undepressed about
:hug:

[xchrom]

52. diagnosed clinically depressed here.

i'm not on meds because none ever worked -- and i've tried about six.

anyway -- as you can see by this thread you have a lot of support -- hope you're getting it actively in your life.

you can always pm folk at du -- if you need.

just take care of yourself.

[ikojo]

53. In total agreement...

untreated depression sucks even more because it can lead to death as it did for my brother, Jeff (may he rest in peace, z'l).

PLEASE if anyone on this board is feeling depressed SEEK TREATMENT!!!

[zanne]

54. I yearn for one "normal" day.

It's been so long, I'm beginning to wonder what "normal" feels like. It's very isolating--even when I'm surrounded by people, I can't "feel" their company.

[buddhamama]

55. it does, and i am sorry

that you're depressed. i have been a bit of a funk myself these past few days.

talking helps, and you have friends here who support you and wish you nothing but the best!

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[City Lights]

56. Yes it does, RL.

:( I'm sorry you are hurting...:hug:

[billyskank]

57. I'm sorry RL

:(

:hug:

[haf216]

58. I'm so sorry.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[GirlinContempt]

59. Why are you depressed?

[hedgehog]

75. Sometimes depression has no reason.

Sometimes stress seems to bring it on, but then how comes stress doesn't always bring it on? I'm almost ready to believe that clinical depression really is independent of outside circumstances and that correlation is not proof of causation.

[hunter]

84. Almost ready?

The problem is you can always find some reason to be depressed, and when you are depressed, you do find reasons. All these mental illnesses are like this. If you are hearing voices and seeing angels, and waking up at two in the morning to go running down the sidewalk wearing only your gym shorts, you actually come up with reasons for these behaviors and perceptions. But these behaviors and perceptions are not the mental illness. The mental illness is that these reasons MAKE SOME KIND OF GOD DAMNED SENSE TO YOU!

Clinical depression is exactly the same. You think "I'm depressed because.... blah, blah, blah." BUT THERE IS NO EXTERNAL "BECAUSE." Whatever it is is going on inside your body, inside your brain.

It takes someone outside of you to recognize the nature of your mental illness.

A long time ago, when I was a single guy living on my own, my room was a mattress on the floor, a computer, clothes and books thrown all about, and computer listings taped all over the walls. The hangers in my closet didn't hold clothes, they held more computer listings.

Almost anyone would've walked into that room and backed out slowly. Whoa...shit... a crazy person lives here... But it wasn't at all obvious to me at the time.

I once had a really bad drug reaction and went entirely psychotic. I remember I was running down the street in the dark when the police stopped me. Now this wasn't an entirely unusual experience for me, I think I sometimes served as comic relief for the police department's night shift because I was so good-natured, in fact I was a joy compared to the usual night-time crap they had to deal with, and anyways, the officer looked me up and down and asked, "Did you know your feet are bleeding?"

Bloody hell, they were! I'd forgotten to put on my shoes! I guess I'd been thinking about something else.

Now the awful thing was that they didn't take me to the hospital because this wasn't radically outside the range of my normal behavior. I was the guy they found naked walking up and down the beach looking for his clothes. (Note to self: If you go skinny dipping alone in the ocean at night you are crazy, but whatever you do, LEAVE YOUR CLOTHES WHERE YOU CAN FIND THEM AGAIN! At night a pile of clothes looks like a pile of kelp.

So anyways it took one of my professors to recognize that there was something exceptionally wrong with me. But it didn't turn out all that great because at the clinic they were like, "Oh well, shit happens, try this," but it did give me a remarkably clear understanding of these sorts of things, at least when I've got my head on straight.

I depend greatly on other people to notice when I don't have my head on straight, which works well, except the truly rotten thing is that I learned to fool both myself and other people that I was okay too.

Take a deep breath. Sigh.

If you have the slightest inkling that you need help, or someone close to you tells you that you need help, then by any means, get help!

[hedgehog]

87. Some people attribute their depession to a traumatic event or

series of traumatic events. I didn't want to disagree with them, merely suggest that many people develop clinical depression independent of outside influences.

[ghostsofgiants]

93. Actually...

"Clinical depression is exactly the same. You think 'I'm depressed because.... blah, blah, blah.' BUT THERE IS NO EXTERNAL 'BECAUSE.' Whatever it is is going on inside your body, inside your brain."

Actually often there is. That's why mental illness is generally seen in certain demographics rather than randomly throughout all cultures. Single males are highly susceptible to mental illness.

That's not to say there are no physiological factors at play, but often there are external factors at play as well.

[hunter]

95. Males with mental illness are higly susceptable to singleness.

There's a lot of external factors at play.

[ghostsofgiants]

97. While your experiences might be physiological, as you've said...

I don't doubt that there are cases that are purely physiological in nature. My point is that physiological reactions aren't the only cause of mental illnesses such as depression.

[GirlinContempt]

86. And, sometimes it does.

So I'm asking why.

[hunter]

89. The problem here is that we have one word describing many things.

Saying "I'm depressed" is too vague to mean much. I suspect the definition is drifting away from "I'm feeling upset about something that happened" to something more clinical, but that still doesn't solve the problem. We are unfortunate to be limited by one word when we need at least two.

My own issues are almost entirely structural and chemical. Troubles I've had are symptoms, not causes. I don't become depressed because I've suffered, I've suffered because I was depressed. Cases where it is the other way around are most often the result of some failure in the depressed person's social network. The social networks in American culture can be quite disfunctional.

[GirlinContempt]

91. I don't think it's a problem.

Asking why someone is depressed is the opener to finding out:
My girlfriend left me
I lost my job
My mom died
I don't know/I'm clinically depressed

The word can fit both clinical and situational depression, I don't think more than one word is needed.

[hunter]

94. Maybe you've not had to wade through the bullshit I have.

Talking to some people just taught me how to fake it. You are missing both your hands and they give you some pretty cosmetic things that look exactly like hands, but they are useless.

Give me something that works, even if it doesn't look like hands, even if it looks sort of scary. Plain old hooks are better than fake rubber hands, no matter that people think at first glance the rubber hands are real.

If I see a professional and I say, "okay, this is who I am" that had better be where we start from, and they'd better get up to speed quickly, or I know they are just trying to sell me some useless rubber hands, probably because that's all they've got.

A lot of what I've experienced is the equivalent of teaching a gay person to be straight. It's actually been harmful. Maybe that's another reason I wear the rainbow flag here...

[GirlinContempt]

102. I'm not sure what you're saying

[hunter]

103. It's sort of like being Data on Star Trek TNG...

I'm fully functional.

Most of the time, anyways...

I used to hang out with some Viet Nam vets. There were two guys who were best buddies, one of them suffered PTSD horribly, one did not, even though both of them had lived side-by-side through exactly the same horrors. There was nothing in their life experience that would explain that difference.

The question of Nature vs Nurture is stupid.

Some people get burned after a half hour in the sun, some don't. It helps to have dark skin.

Our brains are exactly like that.

[hedgehog]

109. That's a very good explanation.

I'll be sure to remember that. It also points out that some of us have to stay out of the sun, so to speak, by avoiding certain situations.

[Chorophyll]

60. Depression

isn't for everyone. Just smart, creative, cool people.

Hang in there, man.
:hi:

[Mad_Dem_X]

61. I feel your pain

Depression is the worst, I sure know that. :hug:

[Patiod]

63. It does indeed

Stay strong, RL.

I am blessed that only three things seem to bring on major depression: breakups, job loss and lack of light.

I've been with the same guy for 15 years, and my job (the one with the tiny office which has two 4'x 4' windows) seems relatively secure (for now).

[Dastard Stepchild]

64. If possible, I hope you can get the support you need...

Therapeutic or pharmacological (if necessary). I see so many people attempting to stoically heal themselves with no interventions, and while it can be done, I think it is a more painful, lonely and exhausting process when done alone.

Then again, I'm biased as a social worker. But from personal and professional experience, let me just say that it is most definitely something to consider. I think the normal reaction is to be brave and go it alone, but my argument is to be brave and attempt to find some assistance... particularly if you find this lingering. I generally raise my eyebrows if someone has been in a consistently depressed state for two solid weeks - suggests something potentially more intense than your average blues.

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

65. Thanks for all the support. I appreciate it...

And this is not just being sad, as you with depression know. You can't just "cheer up" as uninformed individuals IRL and family members have told me to do. You don't "get over it."

And yes, I have sought help. I was diagnosed last year with untreated clinical depression. (Probably had it most of my life in varying levels. Spent the 80's self-medicating so I probably wouldn't have noticed.) Compounded with situational depression from the crash of my marriage, etc., and living for 10 years with a depressive who also was untreated. fun fun fun...

Unfortunately, I was diagnosed by my GP while seeing him about panic attacks, and he either mis- or over-medicated me.

The Xanax took care of the anxiety and panic, but was way too much, and I am no longer on that nasty drug. That drug in all truthfullness should be called "Xombie."

The Zoloft didn't "work" according to him, and he upped the dose from 25 to 50 to 100 to 200mg (the highest legal dose) and the side effects were staggeringly awful. Enough to make you, well, depressed. I won't get into them, look them up, they are nasty indeed and I wouldn't wish them on anyone.

At this point I sought out a specialist, and am now seeing a Psychiatrist for the medical side of the depression, and we are down to 12.5mg and that has been doing fine except for occasional bouts like yesterday. I am also seeing a psychologist weekly to deal with the personal things that set this off last year. Better sleep habits, diet and exercise have the potential to help, but lack of motivation to change those is also present...

Good days and bad days, light and dark. It's all part of my life now, and I just keep pushing on...

To all of you :grouphug:

Thanks

RL

[bicentennial_baby]

66. Have you thought about changing the

antidepressant? What works for one person may not work for others...as I'm sure you know. Anyway, I'm glad you got yourself a psych to work on this with you...If you ever wanna talk, let me know. This household has a LOT of knowledge about these matters, believe me...you don't know that half of it :P

:hug:

:loveya:

[BarenakedLady]

68. RL

You and I sound very much a like. I've been dealing with depression most of my life as well. But this is the lowest I've ever been. The Zoloft at 150mg is not working. I'm going to have to change I think.

Anyway, as you can see, there are many of us here who understand what you are going through. :hug:

And I swear to goddess, the next person who tells me to "cheer up", "snap out of it" "be happy" or say "what do you have to be depressed about?" is going to get a fork in the eyeball. :banghead:

[RetroLounge]

69. "a fork in the eyeball"

:rofl:

I understand that urge...

:hug:

RL

[kwassa]

71. Having had a tendency to depression

and a long relationship with a major league depressive, I can relate to what your going through. I've lived around both depressives and manic depressives that refuse to take their medication. Not fun when they refuse to help themselves.

Therapy is important, the right medication is very important for some, and some of it is quite treatable. I never needed meds, just needed to do the right work.

Having done a grand survey of therapy types through the years, I also recommend Cognitive Behavior Therapy and the "Feeling Good" book as a way developing new tools to end depressive thinking. It, unlike other therapeutic forms, really builds a set of tools that can help end or greatly reduce depression.

[soleft]

77. Mike Wallace, who's suffered from it his whole life, once said

if you told me there was a pill on the other side of the room that would make me feel better, I woudn't have the energy to go over and get it.

I really relate to that.

When I had it bad, I would go to work, close the door, lie down on the couch, and at 5pm I would get up, open the door and go home. I would try to read a memo, and I'd read the same paragraph 5 times and not be able to understand what it said.

But I've been in remission for about 6 years, which is how long I've been off meds. I'm finally losing all the weight I gained while I was so sedentary, and life is looking pretty good.

So it's great that you have a fighting attitude. Just try and hang on, because it can be overcome.

[reyd reid reed]

70. It really does

I'm so sorry, darlin'. You okay?

[Avalux]

73. Hey RL -

:hug:

[Sequoia]

74. It sure does.

Life is a living hell, pointless, and empty when you walk down that deserted road with no help coming.

[hedgehog]

76. Well, going by the names on this thread, at least we know that us

depressives are good hearted people with a wicked sense of humor. You're right, depression sucks. Keep fighting the good fight; there are better days ahead.

[Taverner]

78. Big Beary Man-Hugs dude

:hug:

[swimboy]

79. I know.

and I'm sorry. I'm glad you are doing what you are doing to address it. I think I need to look into some additional approaches.

:hug:

[NewWaveChick1981]

80. Yes, it does, RL....

:hug: :hug: I've seen it do terrible things to people around me. :pals:

[Blue_Tires]

88. yes

yes it does....

and "suck" puts it kind of mildly

[graywarrior]

96. Mine is surfacing bigtime lately.

Fucking HATE it. So sick of having it.

[SPKrazy]

98. I Hear Ya

and it fucking sucks Gray!

:pals:

[graywarrior]

99. Worst part is I can act like everything is ok, be funny as a bastard, and yet...

I'm sitting in a black hole of despair. Holidays make it more difficult.

[SPKrazy]

101. Yeah, In Certain Situations I can Do The Same

in others, I just feel blahhhhhh

actually, my meds, and exercise have helped a lot.

personal/relationship problems have taken me in the other direction too.

so, my mind vascillates between doing better, and doing worse, but in the end, I think that better is where I'm going. I hope.


This holiday season is going to be a challenge for many reasons, and I'd just as soon skip it.
:hug:

[hedgehog]

110. I hear that - people ask me how such an optimist can have depression.

[graywarrior]

111. Yes, how can you be so funny and upbeat if you're on the verge of buying a pack of blades?

[hedgehog]

117. Just don't be so good at hiding your symptoms that no one realizes how

much trouble you're in. There's nothing wrong with receiving help.

[gemdem]

100. Sucks ain't strong enough a word...

Hang in there RL. You've got a lot of support here. And even though I'm not a frequent voice, you and the others in the Lounge and elsewhere on DU have helped pulled me through with your posts. Just knowing I'm not alone makes it easier when the shit gets tough. Hope this note helps.

:hug:

[Control-Z]

104. It does suck

I just gave in and started taking a new anti depressant myself - after 4 years without.

When you're in the deep of it it seems like there's no way out.

But when you're out of it life can be good, as I recall.

[u4ic]

105. .

I'm sorry, hon. :( I do hope that your new medication will help you tremendously.

If you ever need to talk, you know you can PM me. :hug:

[Control-Z]

112. Thanks, u4ic

I'm sure it will.

I hope your surgery went well and painlessly today - and with no reactions.

Please check in with us when you're up to it so we know you're okay. :hug: :loveya:

[SPKrazy]

106. Yes It Can!

and don't forget it!

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Control-Z]

113. I won't forget

Thank you, Southpawkicker.

[SPKrazy]

115. Thank You Dancing Alone!

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[MissMillie]

108. yep, it does

I hope who ever you are referencing here (my assumption was that you meant you, but assuming doesn't make it so) is getting treatment.

[tinfoil tiaras]

114. I'm sorry

:( :hug: