Am I wrong here? My sister thinks I am.

[LeftyMom]

I didn't get LeftyKid's father anything "from Leftykid" (who is too young to pick anything out and too young to have more than a few bucks of his own, so everybody knows that really means from me) because he hasn't bothered to pay support for LeftyKid in months (he's not a poverty case- he has plenty of money for his new Wii, games for it, parties with his friends, time off work for parties and trips, supporting his unemployed freeloader girlfriend, etc.) Since I'm raising a kid, working long hours and going to school full time, I really can't afford the time or money to get a present for him. I take that back, I could if I really wanted to, but I'd rather spend the money on and time with my son.

I highly doubt it would even occur to him to get me a gift "from LeftyKid," he never did so even when we all lived under the same roof.

Should I suck it up and get him a token gift "from LeftyKid" as my sister thinks I should, or should I skip it?

[RevolutionaryActs]

1. What kind of present does she think you should get him?

Why not have LeftyKid make him a picture or something like that? Or you and LefyKid could make one together? Have some fun, spend time with LeftyKid and be nice all at once. :)

[LeftyMom]

4. LeftyKid's at his house until tomorrow night.

If LeftyKid needs to draw him a picture or go buy him some cheap cologne, his girlfriend can arrange it.

[mockmonkey]

8. This is

the best advice!:7

[auntAgonist]

2. skip it.

let your sister buy him a gift. :sarcasm:

seriously, there's no reason to get him anything.

:hug:
aA

[prolesunited]

3. All depends

on the life lessons you want to teach your son.

[LeftyMom]

6. He's five.

He's not going to draw any great moral lesson from some gift with his name on the tag popping up for his father.

[Gormy Cuss]

33. No, but encouraging him to make gifts for others is a good life lesson, no?

I absolutely agree that you don't need to BUY anything from LeftyKid to his father. That's just ridiculous. If I were you it would take every bit of self restraint that I could muster to resist the urge to send his father a past due notice for the child support wrapped up with a big fat bow on top.

The separate issue is whether encouraging him to give of himself (even though he may later figure out that his father is selfish) is worth it. You know your son, and if you think he would feel good about drawing a Christmas card for his father then that should be done.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. I think you're right, my dear LeftyMom.........

Skip it......the guy doesn't need or deserve anything from you or your son.......

Stick to your guns! :bounce: :bounce:

[skygazer]

7. I think you should ask Leftykid if he'd like to get a gift for his dad

I have a shitbag ex-husband so I understand how irritating they are. But I think it's important that kids get to make up their own minds about their parents. I don't recall how old Leftykid is, but if he's old enough to understand the question, I'd ask him. If he wants to, pick up a little something and send it. If he doesn't care, don't. But I would give him the option.

[LeftyMom]

9. The more I think about it, he's at his Dad's right now. The girlfriend can do it if she wants.

I refuse to spend any money on the louse when at last count he owes me more in child support than I paid for my car.

LeftyKid is five. Old enough he'd be excited about getting a gift, but young enough not to be able to pick one out very well or to think of it if nobody brought up the idea.

Now Kid Sis is yelling at me about the lack of Christmas decorations around here (apparently she didn't notice I work at a toy store and I've barely had time to sleep or shower lately) so I think she probably just wanted something to bitch about.

[skygazer]

10. Up to you, of course

I think a kid of five is old enough to understand the idea of giving a gift. And I think it's good if a kid feels like they can love both their parents without the feeling that they're letting one of them down. You may not think a five year old can have such complex thoughts but they can. And it's really easy to let one's own bitterness at an ex affect the way their child views them. And I don't think that's fair.

For you to ask him about it lets him know that it's okay to love his dad and share a gift at Christmas with him. That's a good lesson, regardless of how much child support his father owes.

[LeftyMom]

11. He won't be here until tomorrow night. Stores will be closed.

I can go get something from him or not, but picking out a gift for his Dad together is not a logistical possibility.

[Generic Brad]

12. I would say no and stick firmly to my position

But I can be a prickly bastard if I am rubbed the wrong way, so take that into account with my advice.

If LeftyKid's father is not keeping up with his child support I think the only thing he deserves is a lump of coal. But leave it to Santa to give him that. I think you should be completely off the hook and do not owe him a gift this year.

[Scout1071]

13. You don't owe him a thing LeftyMom.

If LeftyKid asked you about getting him a gift, that's one thing....but he's only 5. Maybe down the line this will be more of an issue, but for now? Just tell LeftyKid that if Santa didn't bring anything to Ex-LeftyHusband, then he must have been bad. (kidding)

[shanti]

21. exactly

i've raised my son by myself with rare spurts of child support (a VERY small amount, if that) for 15 years. i wouldn't think of buying the ex a present from my son, and my son nevers brings it up.

screw him. we divorced (quickly) because of his abuse, he will never get a thing from me. ex's who get goodies from their ex's do so because they are good guys. bad guys ain't getting shyt.

[begin_within]

14. Get him these books...

[xmas74]

18. I need to get those books.

I have deadbeat problems around here right now.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

15. Tell her to butt her nose out of it...

I'd have a few more choice words, but it's Christmas, so I'm being nice. LOL
Duckie

[RetroLounge]

16. Your sister needs to mind her own business

No gift is needed here.

If your sis needs to butt in, tell her to go help collect some of that child support from that deadbeat.

RL

[xmas74]

17. Sit LeftyKid down at the table

w/ some crayons or markers and some construction paper and tell him to make cards for everyone that he loves as a Christmas present.

If the ex can't appreciate a handmade card from his son then he's a sack of shit. Nice part-you know your son will make one for you to hang up.

(Just wanted to add: my six year old makes all of her presents for everyone. She even makes mine-usually w/ me sitting there. But no one forces her to make anything-she doesn't make shit for her deadbeat.)

[Floogeldy]

19. You are not wrong . . .

. . . unless LeftyKid REALLY wants to get his dad a present, then you might do it for him, but definitely not the deadbeat dad.

[Flaxbee]

20. well, since LeftyKid still sees his dad, perhaps you might

want to think about it - if not this year, then soon. The freeloader girlfriend, or your ex., could ask him what LeftyKid got them (if they're jerks - and they sound kinda like it) and then LeftyKid might feel really bad, put on the spot, etc. You, of course, would be free to clobber them if they did that to LeftyKid, but best to make sure LK is prepared so he's not in an awkward spot.

At some point I think you should get around to asking LeftyKid what he wants to do - maybe for next year. He does understand, probably, what gifts mean and as he gets older, might want to do something for his dad. As was suggested earlier, it could be a framed drawing, or some craft thing your son did...

[SoyCat]

22. If your son draws his father a picture that should be quite sufficient. End of story.

[NNadir]

23. I cannot say in your case.

I would like to imagine that in the same situation, I would buy the present, but I'm not in it with you.

If Leftykid is too small to notice, that's one thing. But when he or she is older, you may wish to teach forgiveness. Sometimes that can feel personally painful, but one can and should sacrifice one's pride for one's children.

I will confess though, that I spent many years forgiving my brother in order to set an example for my children. But it got to be too much. Finally I just explained to my kids that though it is a matter of regret, I cannot forgive their uncle for his latest. They are old enough to understand though.

[Rabrrrrrr]

24. Your sister has no right to an opinion in this situation.

She certainly has no right to expect you to care about her opinion.

And you have no responsibility to listen to her opinion.

[MichiganVote]

25. Yeah, give him an itemized bill from his kid

[flvegan]

26. *snicker* Doesn't your sister drive a Mercedes?

Paid for and whatnot?

While I think it'd be nice for little man to get "dad" a gift, I think that it's irrational, considering.

I can't wait to meet him, when I'm there visiting. Guys that abandon their children and the mothers of those children are really just my kind of folks.

To piledrive.

And yes, I DO hope that little shit reads this. Fucker.

[JVS]

27. Go with a token gift like a chocolate bar

[KitchenWitch]

28. Until LeftyKid wants to get him a gift

I would say not to.

[LibraLiz1973]

29. Uh, no. There is a point at which

pretending to be civil is taken too far.

He's not paying any money toward his child- why should you blow money you need to support Leftykid on him?

[jpgray]

30. I would do it

Just because someone's a jerk doesn't mean nicely doing something nice for them is less nice than being nice to the nice. Or something. :P

edit: But certainly unless LeftyKid wants you to, you're justified in not doing it.

[Nikia]

31. Yes

My sister and I had to grow up with that crap and it isn't fun. Mother claimed we shouldn't want to see our father or give him a gift because he didn't pay enough support, basically guilting us into not doing so. Father claimed that he didn't pay as much support because our mother didn't let him see us enough or made him buy something for us or wasn't using the support money right. It just made us not trust either one of them and felt like we were bad because of something our parents did.
Be civil for your son's sake. He is not responsible for his father not paying child support. On the other side of things though, your ex should understand that your son is not responsible, at his age, for buying a gift either.

[BlueIris]

32. You're right. nt

[CC]

34. Been there done that on both sides.

Let Leftykid draw or make him something if the kiddo brings it up. Beyond that no, do not go spending money you could use for the kid on an ex. that can't be bothered to pay child support. Also tell little sis to shush. As long as no one makes a big deal about it Leftykid won't know the difference.

Oh and please file whatever you need to in your state for back child support. The extra income tax return from the non payer always came in handy for extravagances like clothes for the kid, shoes, school trips and doctor bills here.

[Skittles]

35. LeftyMom

do the right thing - keep your child first and always remember that louse is your child's father - and leave the girlfriend out of it. Five is young but it is old enough for your child to know if he wants to give something. Be civil and never, ever put down the louse in front of your child - believe me, when your boy is old enough he will know who the jackass was.

[Maddy McCall]

39. Dang, Skittles.

Pure, unadulterated wisdom.

:thumbsup:

If the kid has a relationship with his father (and he must, since he's spending time with him), I think that your advice is the best.

[Skittles]

42. it is cruel to put down a child's parent

no matter HOW f***ed up that parent may be. Believe me, in the end the child will figure it out - they need no help from the offended spouse. Yes. That gal needs to put her child first and drop the girlfriend, a**hole spouse, and even herself out of the equation - DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CHILD. It is always sound advice. :)

[deucemagnet]

36. Does he buy a gift for LeftyKid to give to you?

If not, you're certainly not obligated to.

[Porcupine]

37. You're wrong.

Speaking as an evil, ex-husband, slacker, freeloader myself.....

If Leftykid is old enough to unwrap his own gifts he should have something for daddy. If that means you make salt-flour dough and Leftykid skulpts a monster colored with beet juice you do that. Giving is about improving the giver; not he giftee. It's like handing him a quarter for the Salvation Army bucket.

This has nothing to do with your ex. You have to promote Leftykids relationship with his dad whenever there is a tiny positive behavior to hang something on to. Your kid will model some of his/her self worth on this person so deal with it. Promote the good, vocally regret and forgive the bad if at all possible.

I have to defend the evil Ms. ex-porcupine on a weekly basis and it sticks in my craw but I do it. Stand up and eat that crow honey; it's for your kid.

oh. Merry Effing Christmas.

on edit: I read the OP and posted right away before reading the list. Some of you people should be ashamed of yourself. A child should never grow up hearing that they originated from evil especially if it's true!

Let the kid find out for himself who's good or bad; in the meantime STFU about your problems with the ex in front of the kid. Remember who chose the kids dad from all the lonely guys standing around.

About the back child support. You're in California; the state now handles these payments directly. He pays, makes arrangements to pay or goes to jail. No exceptions. File the damn paperwork.

[Blue-Jay]

41. Most sensible post

on this entire thread.

LM, please take this to heart.

[Connonym]

47. Sort of harsh but I have to agree with all of it

You shouldn't buy your ex Anything but LeftyKid will feel proud of himself if he has something to give his dad. It's too late year so let it go and don't worry but in the future maybe provide LeftKid with some supplies and let him make something for his dad or whomever he feels the desire to give a gift.

Yes, you're spending money on the supplies but it's really for your son and not for your ex. Kids really feel excited to be able to give a gift to their parents and homemade ones are the best. If it makes you feel really angry maybe it's best not to but if you can feel that it's for your son and not for your ex I think it will make you feel good in the long run.

[MissMillie]

38. It sounds to me like dad should sense that there's no money for that

and that he needs to pay his support

Then again, I'll bet he'd fail to make the connection

[Laelth]

40. What the ex needs ...

... is a summons and complaint for contempt of court for failure to pay child support. If you were in Georgia, I could help you with that.

As you're not, all I can give you is a theoretical description of how Georgia law looks at this (and many states share this view). Under Georgia law every child is entitled to the love and support of two parents. That means you and the ex both owe LeftyKid a lot, but LeftyKid owes nothing to the two of you. LeftyKid does not owe his dad a present. On the other hand, you owe it to LeftyKid to go hire an attorney and sue the ex for money that he owes to LeftyKid. LeftyKid can't vindicate his own legal rights. Only you can do that for him.

That said, I am sympathetic with those who say that you should encourage love between LeftyKid and the ex. You have the same duty to see that LeftyKid gets love from his father as you do to insure that he gets money from his father. A present might encourage that love, but under no circumstance should money for a present come out of your pocket (given that the ex owes LeftyKid a lot of money), because money that comes out of your pocket is really coming out of LeftyKid's pocket since both you and the ex owe the money to LeftyKid.

Hope that helps.

-Laelth, Attorney

[radfringe]

43. ask leftykid

if he wants to get a gift for his dad, then take him out to a riteaid and have him buy his dad a bottle of old spice...

or a necktie... kids have a knack of finding the ugliest ties ;)

[China_cat]

44. Perfect gift from LeftyKid

A summons for non-payment of support.

[malta blue]

45. I am usually in the same predicament,

but most of the time I just give my daughter's dad a school picture in a frame from the dollar store. He doesn't chip in for the pictures, says he is not paying for crap, but I give him one from her anyway (she is 7 now).
BTW, I never get anything from her (courtesy of him).

If you have a nice picture floating around, toss it in a card. Otherwise, no reason to bust your chops.

[wain]

46. Getting a gift is trivial.

Of greater importance is that you are teaching your son to love his dad.

Responsibility belongs to the father to provide Christmas money to your son so that LeftyKid can buy presents for his parents, relatives and friends.