Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I need some help with a military "expert"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 10:55 PM
Original message
I need some help with a military "expert"
I'm arguing with a Freeper-type, who is using this "military expert" named David Hackworth.

Anyone know anything about him more than just what he says on his website?

Scandals?
Lies?
Etc?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. He wrote the book "About Face"
which disclosed lies by senior officers in Viet Nam. Hackworth was a very successful battalion commander in Viet Nam. I met him in Somalia. I'm afraid he is qualified in military matters. Do you have some specific points from the freeper to counter?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
45th Med Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Col. Hackworth is for real.
Edited on Fri Jan-09-04 11:05 PM by 45th Med
And Hackworth is a Democrat (not for certain about this). He was vehemently against the Iraq War. Hackworth was a fighting Btn Commander in Vietnam. On the otherside of the spectrum is Ralph Peters, who was nothing more than a paper shuffler at the Pentagon. Even Marine General Anthony Zinny was against the war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. why and what is he using
in his arguments that are hack worth`s statements? . he`s hard to pin down on his views-the best thing is to goggle for his website and form your own opinion
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's the link to Col. Hackworth's site
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. He wrote an article for Maxim
in which he retracted his "perfumed prince" comment about Wesley Clark and supported his candidacy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. need specifics
Let's argue the argument instead of the source.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. Here's what the Freeper type wrote.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/rhjunior/


Picked up a little creative writing project on http://www.hackworth.com.

I don't know who the devil this "Hambridge" fellow is, but he does illustrate the basic reason we have Presidents make military decisions and not disgruntled buck privates.

A few choice exerpts, with appropriate responses:

"Fifty Eight Thousand Two Hundred And Twenty Nine. Every one of them a son; a brother, or a father, a husband, a cousin, a lover, a neighbor, a friend. Fifty Eight Thousand Two Hundred And Twenty Nine boys brought home in boxes. For what? For fuckin' nothing. And now the bastards are gonna do it again."

"You mean Iraq ?" I asked. "That isn't gonna be for nothing. Saddam is dangerous, he has to be stopped."

The man could barely conceal his contempt. "Give me a break. A danger to who? Us here in the U.S. of A.? Is his navy off our coast? Is his air force flying over our cities?

In case the author of this article didn't notice, the enemy we are fighting doesn't use his own planes to attack our country.
A more militarily and politically aware writer has already noted that we weren't worried about Saddam having millions of gallons of bioweapons; we were worried about him having ONE gallon, and handing it off to Al Quaeda operatives headed for New York City. We weren't alarmed at the notion of him having an arsenal of nuclear weapons; we were alarmed at the notion of him having a single nuke and putting it on a tugboat headed for an American harbor. We weren't worried about him flying bombers over our cities--- we had our hands full making sure he didn't hand off cash to some lunatic who would send our own planes hurtling into our skyscrapers... again....
We are not fighting WWII, nor are we facing the weapons or tactics of WWII. To claim Saddam was not a threat to us because he doesn't have WWII style battlefleets cruising the Atlantic is to be quite seriously out-of-date.

But, as has been noted before, military types always are fighting the LAST war they were in.....

"Maybe you're right," he finally said, "this isn't for nothing. It's for oil."

God. Must we go slogging through THIS swamp of stupidity once again?
1) If we wanted the oil, we could have just BOUGHT it.... like France, Germany, Russia and China did.... or maybe traded military supplies to Saddam... again, like France, Germany, Russia, and China did.
2) We have not claimed so much as a single well for ourselves. Not one. The oil is being returned to the control of the people of Iraq, just as we said we would.
3)The entire GNP of Iraq--- oil wells included--- is produced every twelve days by the American economy. The Iraqi native who pointed this out further stated he found the idea that America--- with its own considerable resources of oil and money--- would need or even bother to steal Iraq's oil.

"And I know what you're gonna say next. 'He sponsors terrorism'. Where's the proof?
Ummm, the tons of money he gave openly to Palestinian terrorists? The paper trail leading from him to dozens of terrorist operatives worldwide, and back again? The Al Quaeda training camps he set up in Iraq? The open vocal support he gave to Al Quaeda, and that Osama gave to him?
"As for now, maybe if we looked at why people are pissed at us, we'd begin to understand.
Pardon me, but I don't give a crap in a bowler derby why they're pissed at us. If some bugeyed loony grabs a knife and runs screaming across the room at me, I don't give a damn why... I'll pick up a chair and deck him. And then when he's down I'll work him over till he can't get back up again. You can talk about how much you hate me all you want, but the instant you throw anything but words at me is the instant your life is forfeit.
The same goes for this country. You got a complaint about us, you come to the bargaining table and talk it over. The instant you start killing civilians to make a political point is the instant anything you have to say becomes irrelevent.

"David T. Hilton. William C. Langham. John A. Gibson. Richard Galan. Danny Lee Frye. Cecil D. Lamm. All these boys blown off the face of the Earth, because we just can't keep our noses out of what's happening on the other side of the world. Ever read George Washington's Farewell Address?"

I shook my head. "He told us not to concern ourselves with what other countries are doing to and amongst themselves. He said it would just get us mired in a big mess.

George Washington was a great man--- but he didn't live in an era when every place on earth was literally less than a day's flight from anywhere else.
We tried isolationism. We tried retreating into our shell, leaving the world alone, abandoning our Democratic allies elsewhere in the world, and the terrorists came after us anyway.

So what if a majority thinks that this coming war is right. The majority is just something that government manufactures and manipulates to give the appearance of legitimacy to what government does.
How many wanna place bets the author was pissing his pants after the 2000 election, claiming falsely that "the will of the people was not obeyed?"
Seems "The will of the people" is only valid when it gets a Democrat elected. But when it comes to deciding whether or not this nation will act against its enemies.

This is a representative government; that means, in effect, that the will of the people constitutes the soldier's marching orders. If our dear author doesn't like that, he can feel free to move to a third-world country where only ONE person--- Qhadafi, perhaps-- issues all the orders.

"And as for those government bozos who say that those who question their plans and motives is unpatriotic and aiding the enemy, well, they can just kiss my ass."

Well, seeing as you've been provided with the facts and are STILL attacking this nation's efforts to defend itself and eliminate a threat to world peace.... yeah, you're fricking unpatriotic. And you can pucker up and kiss the crack below MY back, if you don't like being called by your name.

"You know what really galls me? How those that seem to yell loudest for war have never seen one. They've never seen a buddy disappear from the waist up after a shell hit, then see his legs stand there for a moment before falling over. They never saw a friend all psyched up about going home tomorrow after finishing his tour get hit in the belly with shrapnel, see his guts spill out, then watch him try to gather up his intestines lying in the dirt.

No. But we know what it looks like to see someone leap to their death from atop a skyscraper. We know what it's like to see footage of a baby carriage crushed by falling rubble, or of people gathering human remains--- with a bucket brigade. We know what it's like to see our friends and family and loved ones and our fellow Americans maimed and killed when two skyscrapers burn and crumble and fall.
We know what it's like to open the mail--- the fricking MAIL!-- wondering if it'll kill us. We know what it's like to break into a cold sweat every time we hear a jet engine pass by overhead.
We know what it's like to watch the nations succoring our enemies dancing in the street and passing out candy to celebrate our deaths.

3,000. there's a number for you, jackass.

There is a blood pact between the farmer and the soldier. It is as old as war, as old as warriors. That compact is this: The farmer feeds the soldier, shelters the soldier, pays the soldier, clothes the soldier, equips and trains the soldier for one reason and one reason only: the agreement that, when the time finally comes to fight, the soldier will repay the farmer by fighting on the farmer's behalf and at his behest.

And that means they'll fight wars they don't like, and follow orders they don't agree with, and see things that no civilian ever will.... all at the farmer's request, because that's what they signed up for.


Our nation has fought this war well. We have freed innocents, defended our country, and broken the backs of many of our enemies. It is not over, but we have made unimaginable progress against an enemy that others swore would devastate us.

Yes. We know what we are doing. Even if some faceless fiction writer doesn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. What a crock of Goebbel's doo doo
So many false statements and non-sequitors. But politics are essentially irrational. The only terrorists Saddam ever supported were those fighting Israel. Whatever WMD he had were those we furnished. The illogical and irrational 911 appeal is made over and over again. Nothing but a rehash of the biggest lies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. Full of shit, makes a living telling news pundits what they want to hear
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. From what I can gather:
Hackworth publishes letters from the military on his website; it was critical of the war, & some conservative is trashing the letter.

Hackworth is a little loony, but he is all for the military PEOPLE, & not the gov. He was against the Iraq war & rails against it all the time.

He is supposedly the most decorated person in military history. A lot of conservatives hate him; freepers smear him all the time. He used to be on Fox & they dumped him because he would not do the Bush propaganda required there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Didn't Fox have a fake soldier on their "news" network too?
I seem to remember Fox had some guy doing military stuff on their "news" network who turned out to be lying his head off about his military record.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Never mind, found it.
Of course, this shows Fox's "standards."

US channel foxed by the fake war hero

Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
Wednesday May 1, 2002
The Guardian

As a distinguished lieutenant colonel who had served in Vietnam, been part of the mission to save US hostages in Iran and had won the Silver Star for bravery, Joseph Cafasso seemed like the perfect consultant to help Rupert Murdoch's Fox News Channel with its war coverage.
There was only one problem: the military experience of the "colonel" now appears to have been 44 days in a boot camp in New Jersey in 1976, followed by an honourable discharge at the rank of private.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,707982,00.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scottcsmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Hack's the real deal
Hack's a good guy. He has spoken out against the war in Iraq and he's worked for years as an advocate for military members and veterans.

He put his ass on the line during Vietnam when he spoke out against that war.

I can't think of a better example of a patriot than David Hackworth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC