Once again, Dr. Fate must ask if his Sig image is Offensive...

[Dr Fate]

Every now & then a poster is offended by my sig image, the "Flag & Swashtika Skull" that I took from the cover of the Hunter S. Thompson political classic "Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail, '72"

This is not the first time I've asked this in the lounge, but every now & then it comes up: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1001796&mesg_id=1002532&page=

So I just want make sure that everything is cool.

Does anyone know how to "photoshop" away the Swashtikas? I would gladly do this with help, actually...

How about this dandy photo of my heros, Alan Moore & King Kirby as a replacement??(If you have to ask...)Any other suggestions are welcome...

[DS1]

1. No, I don't know how to do that, shucks

PSYCH!! :7

on edit: I voted to keep it the way it is, but here's an alternative.

[Dr Fate]

2. Wow- I love it...

...I may switch to that one, but I'll continue to monitor this poll before I decide.

Thanks so much!

[Kamika]

3. I dont like it at all sorry

Please don't put the flag of the greatest country on earth on a skeleton skull..

If you don't agree with me do it out of respect for any soldier who ever fought for it

[Dr Fate]

6. Soldiers fight & die for freedom, not flags.

If all someone was fighting for was a symbol, rather than the tangible freedom behind that symbol, then there is nothing to respect.

[Dr Fate]

10. Also, the symbol comes from an Air Force veteran...

As I mentioned before, the symbol comes from a book by political commentator, Hunter S. Thompson.

Say what you will about his politics or lifestyle, he is indeed an Air Force veteran and he did not seem to have a problem with it.

[corporatewhore]

11. Flags are toliet paper sometimes i think flags cause soliders to be

skeletons too many times

[Dr Fate]

13. People are too "symbol minded" somtimes...

Symbols work best when there is real meaning behind then, and when they are seen for what they mean rather than actual physical manifestations.

If more people see my symbol as "Dr Fate hates America" than "Gee, Bush sure has fucked up America", or "this represents where we are headed", then perhaps my own use of symbols is failing.

I've always liked the flag and positive patriotic imagery-so I see no problem with using negative imagery either...

[Bucky]

4. I can't vote for those options. I need this option...

"Keep it if you like. It's offensive and shocking, but mostly immature."

If you really think the American system is (morally) dead and Nazi-like, I suggest you get a little more education. All you signal with this message is that you are ingrateful for the good fortune you have living in a country that is free and prosperous, despite the best efforts of the current administration.

Part of the genius of that flag that you are desecrating with death and swastikas is that even when people like Bush and his cronies get into power, there's only so much damage they can do. In 80% of the world if someone like a Bush-Rove-Cheney crew got into power, we'd be fucked. In this country we have systems for fighting back.

I guess the sig file also signals that you don't know just how bad the Nazis were. This country has done some bad things, to be sure, but tossing around the Nazi icon like that only devalues the truth about their evil.

But I won't ever, ever ask you to take the swastikas out of the eyes. That would be too close to censorship (yes it would be only my opinion and not actual censorship, but I cut extra slack when it comes to artists). Too many soldiers died for our rights to desecrate that flag for me to insult it further by ignoring the freedom it stands for.

Censor that icon? Never. Act mature? It's never too late.

[Dr Fate]

8. Bush is the one "desecrating" the flag with "death and swastikas"

I'm only pointing it out with symbolism. I'm not the one who traded in the Old Republic with all of it's cool symbols, for a new vision with new imagery. Bush facilitated what my symbol represents, not me.

If using symbolism is "immature", then so be it. I thought it was quite "mature" and thoughtful to at least ask my fellow DUers for input- so thank you for yours.

[Dr Fate]

14. Just so you know-

the older gentleman in the Alternate photo, Mr. Jack Kirby, is one of the co-creators of one of the greatest patriotic symbols of all time "Captain America!!!"

A classic Jack Kirby drawing of 'Cap:


SEE! I do TOO like patriotic symbols! The difference is I think "patriotic" imagery should be used for positive AND negative commentary...

As far as me not knowing about Nazis, I'm sure I've read just as many, if not more books on them as you, so spare me the righteous lecturing. Why do you think I asked if people would be offended or not???

[Devlzown]

5. I'd never even noticed the swastikas before.

Some people here are a bit sensitive, but surely they know you aren't a Nazi or anything. I think it's fine like it is, but I kind of like scary stuff!

[number6]

7. donate it to the office of Orwellian Home Security

or Repooplick-in HQ ...

[CrownPrinceBandar]

9. I say keep it...

Last I checked, freedom of expression is still allowed in this country.

"F&L...'72" is a great book. I think the sig image is actually very relevant. I believe some of the corruption that Thompson was witness to in the book played itself out in the 2000 election (and in 2004, if were not careful). I say the people who complain either didn't read the book or missed the point entirely.

[corporatewhore]

12. Keep it excellent commentary some times people need to be shocked

[hellhathnofury]

15. Keep it! HST is king.

[brokensymmetry]

16. If you really want to Photoshop -

Why not replace the swastikas with dollar signs? Or even a certain letter of the alphabet?

[Lars39]

17. Keep it.

There was a lot of thought put into it, as opposed to Bush Sr having his suitcoat lined with a flag. Now THAT offends me. Fascism(swastikas) are on the rise and mean death, flag-wrapped skull reminds me of the School of the Americas(?). I'm sure there are many more meanings that could be ascribed to the symbol. :shrug:

[CanuckAmok]

18. Keep it...

to me the Swastikas are very much "on the rise". Just the way fascism seems to be "on the rise" in the US. In both cases, neither thing is fully 'in position', just waiting to be revealed.

It's shocking. Good! People need to be shocked, if they're not already. I don't thing it downplays the evils of Naziism at all. It draws attention to the evils of totalitarianism, regardless of who is behind the mask. If you don't think the BFEE and PNAC is as insideous as the Third Reich, do some digging. Ask the people of South and Central America, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, or Africa which is worse. I doubt they'd care to make the distinction. There aren't degrees of fascism--it's an absolute.

If the skull pisses people off, or snaps them out of their slumbers, mission accomplished.


BTW, "...Alan Moore knows the score..."

[Nlighten1]

19. Is that Weird Al?

[Skittles]

20. no, your sig line doesn't offend me

YOU, however, are a different story. :7

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. To photoshop out the swastikas is, in essence, to sanitize history

much like airbrushing McCartney's cigarette out of the abby road album; or denying that FDR smoked; or other things that we do.

The skull image is as it came. To alter it is to do something that would feel, to me, abominable, because you'd be altering it out of a sense of censorship, and that's just wrong.

I say keep it AND the Alan Moore photo!! maybe reduce the Moore photo down in size, though (dimension-wise speaking, that is), to be about the same height as the skull, just so the sig line is proportioned and nice looking, and put the two images next to each other, not one on top of the other.

[KG]

22. it's cool wit' me.

:)

[Zomby Woof]

23. keep the sig AS IS

Fuck any moran who doesn't get it, HST, or you. People in general who have to have shit like this EXPLAINED to them are too dumb to kowtow to, so don't cave!

Fuck them.

[Dr Fate]

24. You're right.

And when you are right, well, you are right.

[Cat Atomic]

25. Why is Rob Zombie threatening that Hobbit?