I need some good words to help my daughter

[wiggs]

Greetings

My daughter has 3 hours in which to submit an online statement of intent to register...and she can't decide which college to choose. She's historically indecisive and over-analytical, so we've been talking about her choices for weeks and we've visited both of her final options three times each. I feel like we've covered all the based, pros and cons, but the right words just haven't been out there for her to hang her hat on.

The choices:

College A: Good school. Top 20 public school. Near the beach. She likes the beach. Laid back. Party school. She would be have higher than average HS GPA and SAT scores if she went there. She's concerned she'll outgrow it, but she's drawn to it for location, comfort, familiarity, and steady boyfriend. She's also worried about it not being enough....too comfortable. She recognizes that a steady boyfriend in first year of college has pros and cons. Her gut says this would be great.

College B: Great school. Top publc school in the nation. Rigorous, intense, center of the world, competitive, diverse, crazy, challenging. She's drawn to it because of the way it would likely change her and accelerate experience in the world. Worried about the urban grit, academics, and isn't drawn to the area. Isn't joyous about going here, but thinks she should go.

Tough decision for her and I feel badly that neither appears to be perfect for her, except in the sense that people almost always enjoy where they go. We've talked tons, but I wish I could pin down the right analogy, the right words, the right way of thinking about the issue to make this easier for her. Californians can probably guess the choices are UCSB and Berkeley. "Want" vs "should".

Now we've got 2.5 hours.

Any wisdom out there for me?

[Breeze54]

1. College B

She needs to be challenged!
I think College A would 'allow' her to stay 'at home' with the boyfriend.
It sounds a little to comfy and that would stop her from spreading her wings.
This is the time in her life that she needs to be discovering herself!
Who she is and what she's capable of doing... on her own! ;)

[wiggs]

6. Good words. Yes, her boyfriend is great (and that's coming from a picky Dad)

but in your first year to be known as a couple and to not have to find things to do and to have to check on your partner before making plans and to wonder what to do this weekend etc...doesn't sound like a full collegiate experience. Independence, freedom, flexibility, discovery, spreading wings...all good.

[trof]

34. Geographic separation of high school couple good 'test'?

Our daughter started college 800 miles from home and from high school steady's college.

We liked the guy very much, but I thought this would tell the tale.
'Life match', or not?

At first semester's end she wasn't happy.
Too far from home :-) and...too far from boyfriend.

Since we'd paid tuition for entire first year, she stuck it out (bless her heart). Then transferred to college closer to home and bf.

They celebrate their 10th anniversary in November and are expecting their second child late this month.
Happily ever after.

[wiggs]

41. Yow! That's rare, I think, for the relationship to survive like that. Good story

and good for them.

I think my daughter suspects that staying together is not the usual course of events. They're both sad. He came over last night after her decision (he's a 40 minute drive away) for commmiseration and celebration.

[KitchenWitch]

2. If I were you I would encourage her to go to school B

College is about stepping out of your comfort zone and pondering new things.

[wiggs]

7. Right. We've stopped short of encouraging her in a particular choice, and tried

to help her think about these things on her own...so that she owns the decision. But I have told shared my thoughts about reaching, stretching, challenging, new things to ponder as you say, and that trying for that is admirable and worthy no matter how it actually turns out. Shooting high is a good goal.

[LeftyMom]

3. What are her career ambitions?

If it's something that's on the competitive side or she decides to go to grad school, a degree from Cal is going to impress people a lot more than one from UCSB.

[wiggs]

4. Interested in lots....marine bio, psychology, graphic arts, architecture, teaching, kids,

international relations....basically unsure of final career path. Both colleges are big enough to offer all kinds of choices...but moving over to an impacted major at Berkeley would be tough (bio, engineering, physics...mainly stuff she's not interested in).

[LeftyMom]

10. I'd still say Cal then.

Honestly, unless she'd get super homesick, was a marginal student who'd do better in a less challenging school or was planning on a major that had an especially good program someplace else, Cal's the obvious pick I'd think. It's the same amount of money for any UC, and it's the best of them. It's sort of like how with the Ivies you're not paying for a better education so much as a better reputation, except that you're not paying any more. Can't beat that. :D

[uppityperson]

5. If she values comfort above learning, choice A. If she values challenges and stress above comfort, B

It depends on what she wants the most, will it be growing outwardly or inwardly? Sometimes we each need 1, then other times the other. Can she start 1 place, do good, decide to transfer next yr? That is also an option as people do change and change their minds. Flip a coin, works also. Once the coin flip is done, ask her gut was this what she wanted? Sometimes making a choice clears up whether or not that was the choice one really wanted to make.

Don't be afraid to try either, don't be afraid to give either a chance, don't be afraid to change your mind later. Best of luck.

[wiggs]

9. Thanks. Sounds like you've been there. We've done

the coin toss method a couple weeks ago and she was relieved to flip to College A. But then she visited College B and it was not as bad as she had remembered from last year.

Yes. Tonight she said she wishes she could start at College A, then transfer after a year to B. But it is much harder to transfer "up" from A to B than the other way around.

And then tonight I asked her for two hours to pretend she had chosen Berekely and just let that sink in. Didn't convince her....then she tried to fill out the registration form for Santa Barbara...but couldn't be sure about continuing.

[uppityperson]

20. Yes, we have been there. It is difficult and, while a major decision to make, not THE ULTIMATE

decision. Yes, where you go is important, but listening to yourself and maintaining flexibility are also. Mine has recently talked about coming back and getting a associate degree through community college, then working and traveling, though now may continue where is since they are opening up a program Jr is interested in.

I went to college right out of highschool, family expectation. I got a BS in 4 yrs. 10 yrs later I chose to go back and study what I wanted/needed to learn for the job I wanted. Then I moved to where that job wasn't available, went through a "trade" school and now am working in the same field (health care) but independently and am quite happy.

For most of us, there is no 1 perfect answer. Making a decision can definitely help clear out uncertainties also.

Best of luck to her and please let us know what she chooses and how it goes.

[wiggs]

28. Neither of these two schools was perfect, and neither was wrong. Tough for her. nt

[wildhorses]

8. college a, later on she can transfer to college b

she needs to learn to NEVER ignore her GUT,,, it is there for a reason!!!

[wiggs]

13. I believe in the gut too. She was happy to read this. nt

[wildhorses]

14. i wish her all the best...she should do just fine.

she has a good head on her shoulders and she knows to trust her gut....go forth into the world, learn a lot and have fun while doing it:hug:

[grace0418]

11. College B all the way.

Don't limit yourself in college. That's when you should be most willing to take a chance, push yourself, discover new things. It's much better *not* to be the smartest kid in your class, it gives you incentive to work harder. And I gotta be honest, almost without exception every girl I knew who went into college with a boyfriend did not have that same boyfriend at the end of freshman year. That's just the way it is. So I would say don't let that be a deciding factor. I knew too many girls who went to a school to be with or near a boyfriend only to hate the school and the boyfriend within a semester. If the relationship is meant to be it will work out.

[VenusRising]

12. Always shoot for what you want.

If she gets what she wants and changes her mind, she will have no regrets. And if she doesn't get what she wants, she can be proud of herself for at least trying.

Best of luck to your daughter.

[wiggs]

15. 2 hours. A decision may be on the horizon. She's not shared her thought with

me but she's letting it sit for 5 minutes.

[wiggs]

16. Thanks to all for the input. She read this over my shoulder and a lot made

sense. I'll let you know.

[Cabcere]

17. I'd say go with the gut feeling.

As a college student myself, I knew when I first visited my current university that it was where I wanted to be. I was lucky, and I know it's often not that easy for most people to decide, but it's worked out for me fairly well so far. That said, the school I chose is very academically rigorous, and stress can take a heavy toll on your body and mind if you're not prepared for it - my freshman year, I experienced frequent nosebleeds, stress headaches, and anxiety attacks, and my depression (which I keep under control with medication) became debilitating for a period of time. However, I came out of it okay, and although I still have occasional anxiety attacks or stress-related illnesses, I'm learning to deal with it and manage the stress more effectively. Also, the fact that I love the location, atmosphere, and the friends I've made here really helps a lot. I don't know if any of this will be helpful for your daughter, but I wish her the best of luck in her decision, and I'm sure she'll be able to make the most of whichever option she decides and enjoy a rewarding college experience. :hi:

[wiggs]

18. Thank you and good luck to you too. I'll show her your post. nt

[Nicole]

19. Why not both?

Start out at college A. Do her basic courses there while she gets used college life.

She can transfer to college B in a couple of years, when she's ready to take on more challenge.

[wiggs]

21. Berkeley tough to get into. Only 20% admitted. UCSB takes more than half

and so it's easier to go from Berkeley to SB than the other way around.

Having said that...what you describe is what she wants to do if it were feasible

[Nicole]

25. That's too bad.

Both of my kids did what I suggested. They think it really enhanced their college experiences.

They attended smaller schools for 2 years before transferring to OU. They were able to party & enjoy living away from home while taking the "easy" courses. Once they transferred they had to settle down & take school more seriously. That 2 years of growth made the transition go smoothly.

[marzipanni]

22. My son's best friend's older sister is finishing her soph. year at Berkeley

She's a really nice young woman, and I wish your daughter could've asked her some questions. She's interested in architecture, too, among other things. If your daughter decides on Berkeley, I could 'introduce' them, if she would like that.

[wiggs]

23. Cool. Architecture at Berkeley is intense, I hear.

She's got some Berkeley friends and a cousin at Berkeley and she's stayed overnight twice to get the campus feel. A new friend never hurts...and perhaps I'll revisit this in the fall and get her info from you. My daughter is one of my twins...the other twin signed onto Berkeley yesterday!

[marzipanni]

31. Are you close to UCSB?

Berkeley has charming stuff nearby, like Tilden Park.


http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/coolthings/parks/Tilden/Carousel.html
Being near S.F. and the Bay is cool, too.

added & edit- I went back and saw that she decided on Berkeley. Congratulations!
Maybe you can get a discount for two. ;)

[Breeze54]

38. ah HA!

Maybe her dilemma is concerning being at the same school as her twin?? :shrug:

Could that be what is influencing her choice and not the actual schools?

[wiggs]

40. Don't think so. We talked about it and it didn't seem to be an issue. Good

thinking, though.

She's not one to leap before knowing how it will turn out. It would be more likely that she would choose the same school if the other tried it first and found the water just fine.

I also think it would have been easier if her sister hadn't chosen the challenging path...then she could have made a more relaxed decision.

[wiggs]

24. Other interesting fact: her twin sister signed to go to Berkeley yesterday. nt

[rockymountaindem]

26. I'm finishing college right now... I've found that if you don't like the place you're in

as in, the physical setting of the university, you won't be happy. I visited every place to which I applied except a few, and my sentiment about the setting of each place played a huge role in the decision. Thinking about graduate school has had the same effect.

I've really liked the city where I've gone, as well as the school (University of Toronto). I'd say that if you're not comfortable with the big city environment at Berkeley, go to UCSB. If you have the determination, you can make whatever you want to out of the school itself, but there's nothing you can do about the city once you're stuck there.

[Missy Vixen]

27. Hello, Ms. Wiggs

I'm not you, but here's my two cents.

I never finished college, and I didn't push myself. It has been one of the bigger regrets of my life. College B may scare the hell out of you, but you will learn and stretch and grow.

No matter what, finish school. Truly. It will open doors you can't imagine in later life.

Julie

p.s. You are a very lucky young woman to have such a loving and caring parent.

[wiggs]

30. Thanks, from both of us, for your wise thoughts. nt

[wiggs]

29. BERKELEY IT IS! I admire that she wasn't sure about it, a little scared, knew

that it's going to be intense...and did it anyway. She didn't play it safe. (Although waiting till practically the last minute wasn't exactly leaping into the unknown)

She punched the button without being happy about it and that took some courage, I think. It may not turn out well...she may or may not thrive, but her decision to reach for the challenge is something to be proud of.

I've now got two daughters starting Berkeley next year...and they'll have two cousins there as well. Their grandparents will have four grandkids there at the same time!

I have to say...I fully understand the lure of UC Santa Barbara. When we visited last week, we rented bikes and rode around with 10,000 other bikers...rode on blufftop trails from one part of campus to another...saw dorms with ocean views. The campus looked great with green spring foliage and several brand new buildings. Good school generally...but seductively gorgeous. (Note: sometime when you're in northern california...check out UC Santa Cruz. Even more amazing campus).

If this isn't right for her...after a year she'll reevaluate and go from there.

Your posts were helpful and I really, really appreciate all the input. I spend way too much time on DU but I'll have to visit the Lounge more often. Thank you and good night. Go Bears!

[Nicole]

32. Good luck to your daughter!

Actually good luck to both your daughters.

I hope they love it at Berkeley. :toast:

[crispini]

33. Congrats, daughter-of-wiggs!

Good luck! Whatever happens, hopefully it will be a learning and growing experience! :bounce:

[ThomCat]

35. Definitely College B.

I'd never recommend a college with less challenge, fewer opportunities, and less prestige than she's able to get elsewhere.

[AllegroRondo]

36. As my dad told me before I left home:

"never make any decision based on which choice is safest."

take college B. challenge yourself.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

37. Berkeley

This sounds like a college she can grow with and not out of... it was tough choosing, I can't believe I'm already two years through NYU, it flies by quickly and if you don't make the right choice you'll feel like you aren't getting anything out of it.

[wiggs]

39. Yes it was tough and she's still not settled or relieved. But what you said

about growing out of a situation is what she started to believe about Santa Barbara.

When you walk around Berkeley, there's a different energy and purpose and intensity on the faces of students. At UCSB, she noticed that the students were more like high school students...less engaged, more regular, not as interested in studying...on the whole.

She's not super-ambitious yet, and UCSB is a fine school with many very smart kids and good professors, but the images of these students and the thought of potentially four years of the same few cafes eventually ruled out Santa Barbara by a hair.

She also had Davis and San Diego (arguably somewhere between Berkeley and UCSB in rankings) but they didn't appeal.

[MilesColtrane]

42. Go with "B".

If it sucks and she can't take it she can always transfer.

That's better than wondering how things would have turned out had she decided to be a little fish in a big pond.

No regrets.