Windows Vista. What a pain in the ass!

[Lil Missy]

We replaced our PC last weekend and now have a new one running Vista. What a goddamn pain in the ass this has been.

First, we discovered Internet was running VERY SLOWLY, and were advised to replace the modem. We did that, and it wouldn't connect to Internet until a house call from the cable provider. That amounted to changing a fitting on the cable running to the new modem. But why is that?? We switched back to the old modem until they could make a house call and the old modem worked just fine. Why in the hell did we have to purchase a NEW modem for Vista??? That is now working with the new modem.

We spent several hours with Norton tech support to get that set up because it wouldn't run with the FACTORY INSTALLED version of Norton. Apparently, the factory version on this PC is not compatible with Vista. What a crock of shit! That is now working after completely unloading the factory version and downloading a new version compatible with Vista.

Our biggest aggravation is that Outlook Express is not compatible with Vista. You have to set up separate user accounts in Vista before you can set up the other email addresses with the cable provider. Okay, but the new user accounts don't include any of the settings or Internet Favorite links that have been set up in the original account. That's a major point of contention with my partner since we should both have equal access to everything. She doesn't want to have to switch accounts to get to her damned email.

And also, this damned PC goes in to "sleep mode" at some point, and we cannot figure out how to wake it up without a cold kill and reboot. Can't do a soft kill and reboot - there is no way or key we can figure out to soft kill the PC or otherwise "wake it up". Nothing. Not even holding down the start button on the PC to shut it down soft. Can't even kill the switch button on the surge protector. (Which would be a hard kill anyway)

I am not impressed nor amused with Vista. Goddamned pain in the ass. And there are still security shit things that keep popping up with restart that we cannot figure out how to fix. It will take you to a program to show what is not permitted, (shit that came with the PC), but no option to tell you how to allow them or delete them.

Woof! We are seriously annoyed! We shouldn't have to take a goddamned semester of Vista to be able to learn how operate this thing.

Dammit!!!!
:argh:

[GoneOffShore]

1. Come to the light, Luke

Get a Mac.

[Deja Q]

6. That sounds as helpful as

telling them to go use linux or openBSD instead. Which makes more sense - Apple used openBSD as a foundation for OS X; essentially hijacking freeware as far as I'm concerned. It's neatly packaged and an official brand, yes, but so are Red Hat and SuSE who did essentially the same thing, and with cost considerations and knowing Mac hardware is identical to PC hardware save for one TCM ('trusted computing module' - anti-piracy) chip, I'd rather save the hardware costs and use openBSD when or if the time comes.

[billyskank]

9. Actually it's even less helpful

At least with Linux or _BSD one can install it (at no cost) on one's own hardware.

To use a Mac requires buying a new computer - and not a cheap one either.

Not that I urge anybody to use Linux either, each to their own, although a live CD is a cost-free way of trying it out...

[Deja Q]

11. Seconded. I'm known for technical acuity. Not for pitching product sales.

:D

Technically, the Mac is no different from a real PC - except for the TCM chip (think of it as a different form of BIOS).

And you're right, Mac OS X will not install on normal PCs. It looks for the TCM chip that's programmed with Apple's instructions.

Mind you, if Compaq could clone IBM hardware in 1981 and win a lawsuit because of the off-the-shelf nature IBM put into its PC*, anyone who does the same to Apple's situation would also get away with it... in theory; the two scenarios are almost identical.


* IBM used cheap off-the-shelf parts because it did not want its mainframe monopoly challenged by distributed computing. Um, oops... it delayed the power of the PC, but it did not eliminate the possibility. It's a bit more complex than all that, of course...

[billyskank]

13. That would be an interesting case.

Apple would doubtless cite the DMCA which makes it illegal to circumvent an anti-copying measure. But as you point out, Apple would not be assured victory. Since their DRM is not meant to prevent copying of the product, but rather to restrict the ways in which it can be used.

A more apposite comparison would perhaps be with Lexmark, who sued a manufacturer of printer cartridge refills. Lexmark put a chip on their ink cartridges so that the printer would only work with Lexmark-branded consumables, but the other party had busted their DRM and were selling cheaper refills. Lexmark sued using the DMCA, but lost, the judge ruling that the DMCA was not meant for preventing competition.

[skygazer]

2. My boyfriend's PC has it too

And it sucks. Every time he starts the computer up, several boxes appear telling us that one particular software is incompatible with Vista and that several other programs require some such series of jumping through hoops to make work. All the software was pre-installed... just a silly thought but wouldn't it make sense to install software that actually worked with the operating system? Maybe that's just my non-technical foolishness speaking. ~sigh~

[Deja Q]

5. Holy bleep.

That happened with me once... not with a pre-installed program (shit!) but one of my regular apps. It was fortuitous because the replacement program is far better.

Chances are it was more a Vista incongruity than user error, but some apps just won't work. That's inevitable for new releases of operating systems; I've had similar issues under various flavors of Linux...

[Reverend_Smitty]

3. I don't plan on giving up XP anytime soon!

[Deja Q]

8. A logical sentiment.

I'd wait until long after SP1 comes out, so people can report remaining problems and other issues. That's why early adopting technical wierdos* with no social lives exist. We techs like being guinea pigs and love to play with nooses, knives, forest fires, et al. We love pain! :rofl:

[Deja Q]

4. Bizarre.

It sounds like your modem was connected via USB. I have mine configured as a network device; and use the PC's network card.

Changing power save options is similar to previous versions: Right click on desktop, click 'personalize', click 'screen saver', click 'change power settings', and you're there.

It's bizarre a new PC certified for Vista would have that problem. Have you updated the PC's BIOS?

Not sure what to say on Outlook express, except Vista was designed to keep user accounts separated - not integrated - for reasons of security.

Norton is utter garbage and has been since John W Thompson left IBM (he was the head of the OS/2 marketing division and helped run it into the ground) to manage Symantec. I ditched Symantec after 2003 due to product incompatibilities and general product incompetence. Never mind a client who ran it had a documented virus go right through it. What a !*@&#^$% joke. In short, if you want a reliable anti-virus/firewall, go with Kaspersky or Trend. Both ARE Vista compatible. I use Kaspersky.

Service Pack 1 will address numerous problems - until then, check out this site for a "SP1 preview" which does fix some power problems as well. The full SP1 is said to come out by July.

It's embarrassing that new, made-for-Vista PCs have these problems considering Microsoft spent 5 years and 2 attempts to make Vista (In 2004, the original Longhorn was scrapped and a new attempt was made and finally released.)

Hope all this helps...

[Lil Missy]

14. Thank you.

I have over a year left on Norton so that is going to stay, for now.

I tried what you mentioned on Power settings, and it doesn't address the "deep sleep" problem. We get the screen saver and regular power saving mode without any problems getting back on by moving the mouse. It's just that we normally keep the PC running all night, and then can't get anything to budge in the morning. There is also a "sleep mode" button on the keyboard, and if we dare press that it goes into a deep sleep mode and we have to kill the connection in order to boot up again.

We will work on these things one at a time. I figured out how to bookmark this thread so I can pull it up for my partner to review as well.

Thanks for your help.

[av8rdave]

7. Wow...typical Microsoft new operating system. Sounds just like windows 95 all over again

My daugher is getting a MacBook for college. I'm anxious to see how that works out. I'm getting more and more tempted to switch myself.

[Deja Q]

10. One thing in Mac's favor

You own the OS. You don't "buy the right to use it", which is a fairly stinky mindset on Microsoft's part. On the flipside, OS X is by and large modified freeware so keep that in mind too. :evilgrin:

[av8rdave]

15. Thanks for the thoughts....I'm a computer moran, so have a ???

OS X being essentially modified freeware....what is the potential downside of that? Does that become a quality issue, or possibly a security issue? Or something else I haven't thought of?

Thanks!

[Shakespeare]

12. It came pre-installed on my laptop, and I've had ZERO problems with it.

None whatsoever, and I've been using it for going on five months now. :shrug:

[Throwing Stones]

16. My advice would be to get rid of Norton

It's a memory and cpu hog. It used to be a good program before it became bloatware. I got rid of it and increased the performance of my pc tenfold. There are good firewall/virus programs that don't take over the your machine, like panda and kaspersky. Stay away from mcafee and zonealarm - they're just as processor-hungry as Norton.

[Shakespeare]

17. Agree COMPLETELY.

That may be the source of all the problems, not Vista.

[Lil Missy]

18. Thank you for your input and advice.

I'll run it by my partner tonight when she gets off work.

The only thing that bothers me is that we had numerous problems with Vista even before we got Norton installed and working.

The other issue involved is that we still have over a year left on Norton; it's working now, and we are not too anxious to spend anymore on this.

To be determined .....