A-Rod Shows His "Sportsmanship" One More Time

[matcom]

:eyes:

<snip>

TORONTO -- The Yankees' desperation to win a game was so great, Alex Rodriguez reasoned, that he was willing to try anything to make it happen -- even yelling into the ear of an infielder trying to catch a pop fly.

The Blue Jays didn't have quite the same understanding, and by the end of the evening, Rodriguez again found himself in the middle of a heated situation. Rodriguez's verbal interference with Toronto third baseman Howie Clark was a debated side note to the Yankees' 10-5 victory at Rogers Centre on Wednesday.

"I haven't been around that long -- maybe I'm naïve," Blue Jays manager John Gibbons said. "But it's bush league. Everybody in this business, they all look at the Yankees -- they do things right. They play hard. Class operation. That's what the Yanks are known for. That's not Yankee baseball."

In the midst of a five-game losing streak and hoping to avoid being swept in a three-game series by the Blue Jays, Rodriguez had provided a measure of insurance with a run-scoring single in the ninth inning off Toronto reliever Scott Downs.

The Blue Jays turned the pitching over to Brian Wolfe, making his Major League debut, who induced his first batter, Jorge Posada, to hit a sky-high pop to the left side of the infield.

With two outs, Rodriguez was off and running, and as he passed the third baseman Clark, who had his contract purchased earlier in the day from Triple-A Syracuse, Rodriguez made a noise, which Clark said was, "Mine," prompting the infielder to abandon pursuit of the popup.

The ball dropped in for an infield single, scoring Hideki Matsui. Jason Giambi followed with a two-run single to center that extended New York's lead.

"I was just excited running around third base," Rodriguez said. "If you see the video, when the ball bounced, I was past third base. More than anything, I was just surprised."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070531&content_id=1996569&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[soleft]

1. How is that different from second baseman faking a catch?

Or the trick play at first when the first basemen pretends to throw to the pitcher and keeps ball in his glove.

Or putting a 70 year old woman up to the plate with the bases loaded hoping you'll feel sorry for her and walk her on four pitches.

[LSK]

2. or stealing signs...

[Oeditpus Rex]

8. Stealing signs is illegal

Cracking their code isn't.

[sir_captain]

27. Stealing signs is not illegal

unless you're using some kind of camera or something like that. Certainly nothing wrong with a runner on 2nd peering in and giving pitch location information, etc.

I'd say this is a little overblown. OFs and IFs routinely try to fake catches to mess with baserunners. IFs fake cut-off throws. Pitchers do that fake a throw to 3rd and then throw to 1st pickoff thing.

In basketball, players talk trash at the foul line and the fans wave their arms around.

Was it slightly in poor taste? Maybe. Do I think it's really a big deal? No, not really. And if A-Rod hadn't been the guy to do it, no one would care.

And anyway, it's hard to really fault a guy for doing whatever he can to help his team win with what is within the rules. It's not like when he knocked that ball out of the glove--that was clearly against the rules.

[Oeditpus Rex]

35. Which is precisely what I meant

You can't have a coach or somebody in center field with a telescope to steal the catcher's signs.

Hell, it's even frowned upon for a batter to glance back to see where the catcher is set up — inside, outside, whatever. I don't understand that one, but it's baseball. :shrug:

As for "within the rules," see Rule 7.08. It doesn't fully define what constitutes interference, though, and that's the sticking point.

You're right, though — if it hadn't been A-Clod, or maybe Bonds or a few others, this whole mess probably wouldn't even have made the papers.

[sir_captain]

59. That's a pretty big sticking point

Yelling does not physically hinder the fielder in any way. I feel like unless there is some physical act (running out of the basepath, physical contact for sure) or some sort of electronic surveillance that there isn't a whole lot to complain about. Fans yell out "I've got it" on nearly every pop-up. The guy should have been a pro and either just caught the ball or actually looked to see if the SS was making a play on it.

[Yavin4]

4. or inducing a pitcher to balk

players always do things to break the concentration of other players, trash talking in basketball, grunting in tennis, etc.

[Oeditpus Rex]

7. The hidden-ball trick is allowed under baseball's rules

Which is as it should be, because it's one more way to get players and coaches to pay attention.

If you mean the second baseman (or other infielder) faking a catch of a pop fly with a runner at first and less than two out to make an easy double play, that's not allowed under the infield fly rule.

What A-Clod did debatably falls under the commandment, "Thou shalt not interfere with a fielder in the process of making a play."

And there's no feeling sorry in baseball. :P

[soleft]

13. No I meant when an infielder pretends to catch a line drive

to hold the runner to the bag when the ball is actually hit to the outfield

[Oeditpus Rex]

17. Ah, a deke

That's good baseball.

My favorite deke is the phantom double play. You don't see it much anymore because it takes a long time to perfect, and players just don't stay on the same ball club that long anymore. But it's a thing of beauty when done well.

[PVnRT]

16. That rookie third baseman should have been paying attention

Since he was already in position to catch the ball when whatever was yelled at him was yelled at him (we're going by his claim, so who knows what A-Rod shouted), he should've ignored any attempt to distract. If he had been charging for the ball, it would be different, but he wasn't. Rookies are fucked with in every sport, and baseball is no exception.

[SteppingRazor]

18. Yeah, or drafting a midget so that you have a player with an impossibly small strike zone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Gaedel

OK, OK. So it's illegal now.

[Zavulon]

3. I loathe the Yankees, but I have no problem with this. First of all,

there's nothing wrong with trying to distract a fielder unless there's contact. Second, I'm impressed as hell that a $250 million player on a struggling, sub-500 team cares enough to even think of that, much less try. A-Rod had a historic April and the Yanks limped out of the gate anyway.

I applaud his ingenuity, personally.

[seaglass]

10. Yelling "mine" is how you prevent collisions between two ballplayers

and it WAS a bush move. If he yelled drop it or something else to distract him more power to him, but that's not what he did.

[PVnRT]

15. No

Based on the description of the play, the third baseman would have already been positioned to make the catch, and should have known better. If you're parked under a fly ball, it's yours, regardless of what anyone else is yelling, and unless his teammates are fuckwits, they wouldn't call off a guy who is clearly positioned to make a catch. Rodriguez knew he was a rookie and fucked with him. Happens in sports every day.

[Zavulon]

26. It was a bush move in YOUR view, not in everyone's.

Distractions take place at home plate all the time, nobody bitches, but if it happens in the infield all of a sudden it's a bush move? Okay, if you think so, more power to you. I don't.

[Oeditpus Rex]

11. Yeah, he's ingenious all right

[Zavulon]

24. He took a calculated risk and it didn't pan out. So?

Reggie Jackson did the same thing in a World Series against the Dodgers by blocking a throw with his hip, and that didn't work for him. Doesn't change my mind about the Blue Jays game, though.

[Oeditpus Rex]

37. So — it's against the rules

What else do you need? :shrug:

[Zavulon]

40. Professional umpires who were closer to the scene than you said it wasn't.

Point me to the rule and provide me a recording of what A-Rod said. I've got an open mind, go ahead and prove to me that what A-Rod did last night was actually against the rules. Surely you don't think one short statement and that shrug emoticon make you right? :shrug:

Edit, typo

[Oeditpus Rex]

42. I was talking about the 'slap' (n/t)

[Zavulon]

47. Ah. Well,

A-Rod was clearly out, he took a chance that umps wouldn't notice it. Struck me as worth a try. You know, the old "it's only cheating if you get caught" mentality. I don't really have a problem with it, I tend to applaud the attempt. People break the rules every day, like I did this morning by exceeding 55 mph.

[Oeditpus Rex]

51. I've never had the 'It's only cheating if you get caught' attitude

I guess that's where we differ.

[Zavulon]

53. That's exactly where we differ.

I don't think "'It's only cheating if you get caught" applies to marriage or anything, but baseball? Not a problem here.

[northzax]

58. big Barry Bonds fan, huh?

so you are fine with, say, a spit ball, corked bat or taking steroids? since, you know, unless you get caught, there is nothing wrong with it.

[Zavulon]

69. No, but he hasn't been proven guilty yet.

When he is proven guilty, he will have been caught, right?

Do you honestly think the only corked bats and spitballs are the ones that are caught by the umps? For all we know, you see examples of each a half a dozen times every time you watch a game. Obviously, I don't have a problem with it when I don't see it. If someone gives it a shot and gets away with it, I have no problem with it.

Oh, and if I were to tell you what I think you can do with your snide tone, can you guess what my suggested course of action to you would be and what bodypart would be involved? Guess what - not agreeing with a paragon of virtue such as the likes of you is not a fucking crime.

Don't bother answering. You'll be on ignore before you see this. Life is too short to deal with the kind of shit you sling.

[northzax]

70. I'm on Ignore! I'm on Ignore!

for asking someone if they are a barry bonds fan! (who knew Barry was a Duer? Welcome, Barry!)



should barry get the record? sure, until he's proven to have cheated.

[Blue-Jay]

71. .

[Blue_Tires]

74. the rulebook disagrees

see 7.08(b)

[riverdale]

5. ARod was right,

The BJs are a bunch of whiners for crying ARod's hustle and ingenuity. He was playing like a winner.

[Joe Fields]

6. I despise the yankees, but I thought that was cool. All's fair...

[HEyHEY]

9. If it's the Blue Jays you're playing, kick them in the nuts for all I care

[RedStateShame]

12. I'm about to say something I never thought I'd say: I feel bad for A-Rod

He's the ONLY guy on that team giving a damn, and I can safely say that guy isn't 'roiding, and if he is, he needs to find a more reliable source. As for the yell, eh, baseball has always been about questionable on-field behavior: Ty Cobb sharpening his cleats, sandpaper, spit, faking a bunt, etc. Maybe I'll learn to put up with A-Rod when he's a Cub next season.

[sir_captain]

28. He's not the only one

Jeter, Posada and Pettitte are playing their asses off. I don't think I can say that for anyone else on the team, though.

[SKKY]

14. If anyone has ever played baseball at a reasonably competitive level...

...you know that good, class players don't do this type of stuff. It is bush league, and A-Rod, as far as I'm concerned, is bush league. I equate this to faking a tag on a steal attempt just to get the guy to slide.

[PVnRT]

19. That doesn't make sense

How do you fake a tag on a steal attempt to get someone to slide? If you fake a tag, you won't be able to make a catch, and the runner will be safe. If there's no throw, the runner is going to know and we simply jog in to the bag. Otherwise, he's going to slide anyway. So...yeah. As for good, class players who don't do this stuff, maybe you could offer up some examples of who they are, since when I played baseball at a competitive level, everyone was trying to get everyone else on the other side to stop paying attention and screw up. It's part of the game.

[Oeditpus Rex]

20. How would the runner know if there's no throw?

Unless the second baseman or shortstop dogged it?

If it's a straight steal, the runner doesn't look for the throw.

:shrug:

[PVnRT]

23. Third and first base coach

And when running with another runner on third, you'll see many players just waltz into second because they can tell that a throw isn't coming. You have a split second to see whether or not the catcher is popping up even on a straight steal, if you're fast enough.

[Oeditpus Rex]

32. I wouldn't trust a voice instruction

If I hear "No throw" or "Stand up," I'd think it could be the first or third baseman — which is kind of what this thread was about to begin with.

If there's also a runner on third, you're using peripheral vision to see what he's doing. That'd tell you if there's a throw or not. I'd never assume defensive indifference, either.

I just recalled a story Willie Mays told about Ken Henderson, a bonus rookie outfielder the Giants had in late 1965. The Giants were playing the Astros and one of them was way out in front, and somebody (might've been Aspromonte) hit a shot to center. Nellie Fox, a really smart ballplayer, was on third. Henderson made a shoe-top catch, deep, and Fox tagged and trotted home, thinking nobody's gonna bother making the throw at that point in the game with the score whatever it was. But Henderson was 18 and trying to impress the ball club, I guess, and he threw home and got Fox by two steps; he didn't even slide.

Not that it mattered under the circumstances, but it sure made Fox look bad.

[Joe Fields]

22. As I said before, all's fair. Except when you hit a foul.

Personally, I think more of that stuff should go on. It would make the game infinitely more interesting to watch.

[Oeditpus Rex]

34. If all's fair

why does baseball have a rule book? :shrug:


7.08 Any runner is out when-

...

(b) He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball; A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not. If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire's judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out. If, in a run down between third base and home plate, the succeeding runner has advanced and is standing on third base when the runner in a run down is called out for offensive interference, the umpire shall send the runner standing on third base back to second base. This same principle applies if there is a run down between second and third base and succeeding runner has reached second (the reasoning is that no runner shall advance on an interference play and a runner is considered to occupy a base until he legally has reached the next succeeding base).

[Joe Fields]

36. The rule definitely implies physical interference.

I was being somewhat glib with the "all's fair" Sorry. But I see nothing wrong with shouting at opponents. If the opponent mishandles the ball, then they need to concentrate more.

[Oeditpus Rex]

50. Okay, let's try this

In September, 1951, when the Giants were closing in on the Dodgers, they had a crucial series in Philadelphia. Eddie Stanky was distracting Phillies' batters by waving his hands over his head as pitches were delivered. It wasn't specifically against the rules, but the umps made him stop.

(Later, Phillies catcher Andy Seminick took out some Giant — might've been Dusty Rhodes — with a hard tag to the mouth, and Durocher got called for stalling, trying to get the game stopped before curfew at a tie because the Giants were out of pitchers. Philadelphia got the winning run in the 15th, I think, when the Giants pitcher didn't see a return throw from Westrum and the runner on third scooted home. I would've loved to have seen that game.)

[Nye Bevan]

21. Not a classy move

Derek Jeter would not have done this. And as a Mets fan, I have no love for Jeter but I respect the way he plays the game with class.

When Jeter was asked about A-Rod's little trick he pointedly did not defend it.

[Missy Vixen]

25. I hate Pay-Rod with the heat of a thousand suns

If I lived in New York, the only way I could show my face in public is if I were a Mets fan.

God help the good people of Chicago if the life support system for Pay-Rod's gigantic ego gets his ass traded to the Cubs.

Sincerely,
Julie
Lifelong Seattle Mariners fan, and we do NOT forget.

[SeattleGirl]

33. What Julie said!

And no, we do NOT forget!

[soleft]

39. Did you hate Tino Martinez too?

[Oeditpus Rex]

45. Yeah, and Jeff Nelson?

[Missy Vixen]

62. "Nelly" didn't do himself any favors, did he?

Wow. What happened there?

Julie

[SeattleGirl]

48. No.

[Zomby Woof]

55. Tino is cool

I never held it against him for going to NY, disappointing as the choice was. The Mariners had crappy ownership at the time and he was underappreciated by everyone but the fans. He never sanctimoniously squealed about his treatment or the money. A true class act.

[Missy Vixen]

61. Everyone in Seattle still loves Tino Martinez

He was a great player and a genuinely nice person.

I'd say the only former Mariner that may not get the warmest welcome back (aside from Pay-Rod,) is Ken Griffey, Jr., who was described shortly after he left for greener pa$tures as a "cancer in the clubhouse".

Julie

[SeattleGirl]

68. It's going to be interesting to see how the crowd at Safeco responds

to him when he plays there shortly.

[Zomby Woof]

29. Nothing new

He has always been a classless schmuck. He used to try selling an earnest, good-boy act in Seattle, and soon as that facade crumbled, weeeee!

Might as well show his true colors, as he does here.

And Gibbons is wrong: The Yankees have been a classless organization since Steinbrenner took over. They are the General Motors or Pentagon of baseball, and deservedly in the dumps these days.

[Reverend_Smitty]

30. If you think about it, this is a great thing to happen to A-Rod...

because now nobody is talking about his little rendezvous with that cute blonde the other night in Toronto

[Missy Vixen]

38. Ooh! Do tell!

Isn't he married?

LMAO,
Julie

[Reverend_Smitty]

46. quite married...

as much as I hate linking to gossip sites this story really made me laugh...especially the part about the club in Vegas they were spotted in

http://www.tmz.com/2007/05/30/stray-rod-nothing-new/

[Missy Vixen]

65. Ooooh, he in trubbbbble...

Then again, I'm sure he thinks he'll BS his way out of it. Ladies, can you imagine how you'd feel if you awoke one morning to see your cheating husband (and his new girlfriend,) on the front page of the newspaper?

Two bottles of Grey Goose? I must be a candy ass, but that's a lot to drink. :applause:

Julie

[erpowers]

67. Get The Lawyer

I think I would be thinking time to get a lawyer. She would possibly end up $125 million richer and a few hundred pounds lighter.

[taterguy]

31. And another thing . . .

Why is a guy named Rodriguez taking a job from a good hard-working American baseball player. Is he willing to work cheap?:hide:

[matcom]

41. he is doing the job no other 'Murican wants!

:rofl:

[Mojambo]

43. He did it in the final game of the series after he was done hitting

Kinda cowardly if you ask me. He would have thought about it more if he had to step to the plate again in that game.

He's getting drilled the next time they play, and he'll deserve it. I'm not saying he shouldn't have done it, as others have noted, anything goes.

But that goes for retaliation as well, and he's gonna get one in the ribs the next time he bats against the Jays (if he's unlucky it'll be higher)

[Tektonik]

44. He did nothing wrong, actually it was quite smart, n/t

[Mojambo]

57. It's going to smart alright.

He's going to eat one in the earhole the next time they play.

I hope those insurance runs were worth it.

[underpants]

49. What a putz.

I guess it won't be long before all the Yankees fans have to break out the Mets gear

:bounce:

[Reverend_Smitty]

52. who says we'll let them join us

:P

[Wetzelbill]

54. You do what you gotta do to win, nothing illegal about it

I was a serious athlete, competed internationally, and I'll tell you this, there are people out there who would cut your throat just to win a game of checkers they are so competitive. So if you don't do what you have to do to win, well, somebody else will.

[Forkboy]

56. I think it's funny as hell....even Little Leagers don't fall for that one.

Hockey players call for passes from opposing players all the time,sometimes going so far as to imitate a player's voice.It's funny when that works too. :shrug:

[AllieB]

60. Let's not forget this classy A-Rod moment from 2004:

[bigwillq]

63. I don't see the big deal in this

Things like that are part of sports...I know even in high school basketball, even girls, they will yell or shout if someone is trying to take a shot from the floor...for those you don't like it...boo hoo to you.

[Joe Fields]

64. Exactly!

[FredScuttle]

66. Everyone's got it all wrong.....

A-Rod wasn't trying to break up the catch...he spotted his little blonde hottie in the stands and yelled out "Your place or MINE!"

[SoxFan]

72. The ever classy Ringless Wonder

Tek had the right idea!

[reyd reid reed]

73. You can't be surprised...

not really. Disappointed, yes, but you can't be surprised.