Some people should not fucking breed.

[Danger Mouse]

Straight up. If you can't take care of your damn kids, don't bring them into this world. I've seen too many hurt and broken kids whose lives are hell because of shitty parents who never should have become parents in the first place.
WTF is wrong with people?

[plcdude]

1. how else

do you breed?

[Dr. Strange]

4. Well, there's the test tube approach

But I gotta say, I have a soft spot for the original approach.

[Danger Mouse]

5. ...

:P

[catmandu57]

2. Just because you're biologically equipped

doesn't mean you should have kids, I've seen things that made me shake my head and ask wtf.

[Danger Mouse]

7. As have I, my friend. As have I.

:banghead:

[av8rdave]

3. The crux of the problem is that procrating is the ultimate in unskilled labor!

[Danger Mouse]

6. What amazes me is when people have kids when they can't take care of the ones they have already.

I mean, it's like people just keep popping them out.

[av8rdave]

8. I am intimately familiar

ex spouse fits that mold

[Danger Mouse]

10. Ugh. Sorry to hear that.

What we absolutely need are more children born into negligence and poverty because some idiots haven't heard of effing CONTRACEPTION.

[av8rdave]

15. She simply believes that being a good parent means conceiving

Then you try to be their best friend after they're born.

I've tried to explain that there are easier ways to meet friends! lol

[Danger Mouse]

17. Wow. That's an interesting line of thought =P

[av8rdave]

18. Yeah, and you oughta see the results as those kids get older :(

[Pacifist Patriot]

19. Interesting.

My son once listed his friends on a piece of paper and I asked him why he included me. He said, "because you're one of my friends."

I said, "No, I'm not. I'm your mother."

We had a great discussion about the differences between those relationships. Friends and mothers can do some of the same activities and they both care about you, but they have different responsibilities with respect to the relationship.

I'll never forget my mother-in-law on the day of my wedding. She gave me a big hug, welcomed me to the family and said, "He'll always be my son, and I'll always be his mother. Forget the tripe, I'm not losing a son and gaining a daughter. I'm gaining new friends." She is such a cool lady. She never forgot her responsibilities and it is so apparent in her son. He's an awesome dad.

[av8rdave]

20. Sounds like you lucked out with your Mother in Law

So did I!

Good view on parenting vs. friendship. I think so many parents nowadays try to be friends to their kids because of recency. Their more recent experiences with their own parents have been that later-in-life transition from a parent-child relationship to a sort of friendship. We often tend to paint our childhood experiences by what is most recent amd pleasant. Guess it's an easy trap to fall into.

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. I did indeed. I want to be here when I grow up.

Of course that could be because she gets to travel to places like Antarctica, Finland, Australia, etc. in her 70s.

That's a really good question you pose. I wonder if recency is a culprit.

[av8rdave]

23. It may or may not be...I don't think that kind of parenting was as prevalent

years ago, so that theory doesn't really explain it all. Just a thought I've had.

[Marrah_G]

48. Being friends never works

After tonight my daughter hates my guts, wishes I were dead, wishes she were dead, is convinced my one goal in life is to make her unhappy...etc etc. My response: I don't care if you hate me now, you will thank me in a few years.

The issue: She is 16, almost 17. Her boyfriend is 20 (they werent truthful about his age). She managed to hide an engagement ring and the fact that they were having sex for months. So after uncovering many lies and deceptions her father and I got together and informed them they are no longer going to have any contact what-so-ever. What truly sucks is that I can no longer trust my daughter, who, before this loser, was a bright, responsible and very dependable person. Hopefully that terrific girl will get back to her old self over the summer and realize I am not the evil bitch she thinks I am right now.

Bleh....tonight is one of those really shitty nights as a parent.

[MassLiberal]

63. sorry you're having trouble

I have a 16-year-old daughter, too, and while my issues with her are different from yours, I am really struggling as a parent right now. Sounds to me like you did the right thing. Hang in there. It sure ain't easy. :hug:

[Marrah_G]

66. Thanks

:hug:

I keep telling myself that 10 years from now she will thank me. I hope your issues work out okay, parenting is often a thankless job and as moms we end up feeling like crap an awful lot. You hang in there too.

[dropkickpa]

82. Heh

Dropkid will often tell me "I don't like you!!" when I'm correcting her behavior in some way. My stock response is "You don't have to like me, I'm your mother. But you do have to do what I tell you."

I am a parent first and anything else after that. I have no problem having some of the aspects of typical friendship with my child, but I am the parent and that's a role I can't and won't give up. I accepted that responsibility when I chose to have her. Being at the top of my kids friend list is NOT a huge priority in my life. Making sure she makes it through childhood relatively intact is. Being a friend is much easier than shouldering the responsibility of being a parent, I think that has a lot to do with the whole "I'm my kids best friend!" thing that's happening. Laziness and fear and avoidance of responsibility.

[Danger Mouse]

84. Ha...one of my students was bellowing that he hated me today. 'I'll speak calmly but I still HATE

you!'
I said, 'Hate me all you want, just so long as you speak calmly to me.'
:)

[Mad_Dem_X]

83. So true --

Anybody can screw and create a child. Some don't know what to do after that.

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. Could not agree more.

Jeez, there is no such thing as perfect parenting. All we need is parents who are "good enough" and far too many can't even pull that off. I read a horrendous story in the paper today and it was enough for me to toss the rest of my lunch.

[Danger Mouse]

14. Far too many are just about in the range of 'dreadful' to 'horribly abusive/negligent'.

Why do these people have kids? Why? Why, God, why?

[av8rdave]

25. Kids are amazingly resilient...they can survive mediocre parenting

But terrible/neglectful parenting...the damage can be irrepairable.

[malta blue]

11. Yup. nt

[ThomCat]

12. If that were true some of us wouldn't be here.

Sometimes the kids turn out okay despite shitty parents.

[Danger Mouse]

16. That's true. Sometimes they do turn out okay.

More often then not, they turn out to be complete messes, with no chance in life other than to be a complete wreck, future serial killer, spend their lifetime in the system, living in a group home, etc. etc.
It's better for them if they didn't exist in the first place. No child should have to suffer like that.

[EstimatedProphet]

13. Your post title is redundant

but I do agree.

[cwydro]

21. Yup.

Agreed.

[SPKrazy]

24. No, you are correct

someday we need to have a permit to breed.

:grr:

I've seen it too my friend

[Danger Mouse]

40. I don't think it'd be right to pass laws though.

Permits and such.

[SPKrazy]

70. I do...

I remember studying this very issue many many years ago in grad school.

At that time the great legal minds in the liberal think tanks dealing with kids were strongly leaning this direction, giving kids rights.

The laws to protect animals have always been stronger than those to protect kids.

You have to pass a test to become a drive, yet you just have to be biologically equipped to be a parent. I'm not talking about some giganic impossible to pass kind of license or permit test, or charging anything for it other than processing fees.

But to be a parent, one should have to have some basic knowledge ahead of times. I'd have been perfectly happy to have had some parenting training required before having a kid.

Why would you be against that kind of thing? I mean the very thing you are talking about, happens generally in people that have no business becoming parents. If they had to have a permit, or license, then they would have to at least pass some basic requirements there.

Of course the problem of what to do with those who become pregnant, you give them a grace period, they have to have the permit before they can take the kid home from the hospital, otherwise they wait until they have done what is needed.

I'm for radical steps like this because I've worked in the social services/mental health field for enough years to know that there are folks out there who just keep cranking the babies out and having them taken away because they don't know how to parent or aren't capable of being parents.

Yeah, flame away, call me Nazi, I hate to see kids come into the world under terrible circumstances because like you said, some people have no fucking business breeding!

my .02

[Danger Mouse]

76. I won't call you a Nazi or flame you. I think every parent should have at least rudimentary classes

on how NOT to be a dreadful idiot of a parent.
Enforced by law? I don't know. Sounds like it would be difficult to enforce...

[SPKrazy]

80. I'm sure it would

and I don't know the answer to that

maybe my real point is that kids and parenting are much more serious issues than we attribute to them in society by our actions. Words and band aid fixes are limited in their effectiveness.

:hi:

[jilln]

81. Do you have an example of a law to protect animals that's stronger than a law to protect kids?

[SPKrazy]

85. Did you know that when animals are mistreated

they are taken from the owner the owner is charged and there is no "reunification" with the animals.

The first child protective services laws came from the fact that it was illegal to abuse animals and children were not protected that way. A child was on a chain in a yard, and the police said they could do nothing about it. They found a way to use an existing law protecting animals from being abused while chained (not fed, watered, etc.) and it was only by that, that the child was freed.

We have a long history of not protecting children.

We are better than we were then, but if you take a look at the number of child protective workers in most states/number of abused children, it is horrendous to think that we expect anything to happen protectively on a scale that would do any good.

Additionally, with most states goal of reunifying families instead of considering the reality that some people aren't meant to be parents, kids go back to adults that abuse them, sometimes over and over.

That just doesn't happen with animals. So yeah, I'd say we do a better job in many ways of protecting animals. That's not to say that animals don't get abused. They certainly do.

:shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. I would accept that as an axiom.

[conscious evolution]

27. I'm curious

What other inalienable human rights do you have problems with?

[Zuiderelle]

28. The pursuit of happiness

that one sucks big time. Happy for one is annoying for another. I say, no more happiness for idiots.

[conscious evolution]

33. I like Tom Clancy's take on

what the founders meant when they wrote that.They meant the vocation of happiness.
Back in those days the average person pretty much had to follow in their fathers footsteps concerning what they did for a living.The ruling classes made sure they stayed on top by not allowing people to better themselves.
Then came along a group of people that believed in freedom and equality for all.The world has not been the same since.

[jobycom]

32. .

:thumbsup:

That was my first response, too, but I changed to something more reserved before posting. :)

[Danger Mouse]

42. I prefer your reserved, less snarky response.

Thank you.

[jobycom]

72. I'm bi, in that regard.

I go both ways in terms of snarky responses. :)

[Danger Mouse]

38. An inalienable human right to produce a horrible and traumatic life for someone?

An inalienable human right to ruin someone else's? An inalienable human right to irresponsibly bring a little life into the world when you are unable to provide the minimums of care, love, and affection? Yes, I have a 'problem' with it, because with RIGHTS come RESPONSIBILITIES. If you can't live up the RESPONSIBILITY, you shouldn't have the RIGHT. However, I don't think we have any business passing laws telling people they can't breed. They SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO...but they can. And I don't think we have any right to stop them. I'm just saying...rights and responsiblities, people.

[conscious evolution]

53. So how do you propose stopping them?

[Danger Mouse]

54. I think a very important first step is doing away with abstinence education and teaching kids

about contraception. Hell, provide high school students with condoms, even. It's better than them getting someone knocked up. That'll be a HUGE first step towards reducing unwanted and unneeded pregnancies.
Provide education for new parents...'The Explosive Child' by Ross Greene is an EXCELLENT book that every parent should read. 'Collaborative Problem Solving' is an awesome approach to discipline that can be effective on even the most difficult children if you use it right (we use it in our program, and trust me, few kids are more difficult than OUR kids :D)
Unfortunately, there will always be bad parents and people who should not bring children into the world, but we can do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies, educate ignorant parents, and support overwhelmed parents who are getting in over their heads.

[conscious evolution]

55. Good answer

[Danger Mouse]

64. thanks!

my OP was just venting, incidentally.

[conscious evolution]

68. I had a feeling that was the case.

Sometimes people leave me shaking my head also.

[jobycom]

71. An inalienable right to control their own bodies.

There are laws after a child is born to separate the child from the parents if the parents are too eggregiously bad, but the OP mentions breeding, not rearing.

[Danger Mouse]

75. Unfortunately, the child in question is usually traumatized by abuse or negligence

before that ever happens.
IF it ever happens.

[NC_Nurse]

29. I had a patient today who had been through incest/sexual abuse.

She has many psychological and physical problems as a result.

IOW, I agree. :(

[jobycom]

30. Ah, but who gets to decide who those are?

I hope you aren't talking about passing laws, requiring permits, or perhaps even forced sterilization? If not, there's nothing we can do. If so, I have to disagree.

My sister should not have bred. Lousy parent, addict, just like her deadbeat husband. Her kids lived through Hell. One of them has turned out to be a beautiful adult with a sensible attitude on life, and the other the jury is still out on, but we have strong hopes for her. Aside from one juvenile mistake and a few growing pains, I expect her to be quite an impressive adult.

And I've seen wonderful parents produce monsters.

Now, if you want to talk about freaking idiots who walk or even stand in the middle of the road because they feel powerful holding up traffic, I'm willing to forget my liberalism and egalitarianism for a moment and say "Floor it!"

[Richardo]

31. I'll do it.

:hi:

[bicentennial_baby]

56. Shocking.

[Danger Mouse]

37. I'm not saying anyone should 'decide'

And I don't think there should be laws. I'm just venting.

[Inchworm]

34. hmm.. what is this for?

Yay a hat!



I agree mostly.

:hi:

[Danger Mouse]

36. Rough day at work.

:)

[Inchworm]

44. a few beverages

over ice, on the porch... ahh sanctuary :)

Hope all is well now.

:hug:

[Oeditpus Rex]

35. I'm reminded of a cartoon in 'Playboy' many years ago

Two men were talking in one's living room with about 10 kids flitting about.

One man said, "Oh, we don't especially like kids. They're just sort of a by-product."

[fizzgig]

39. i am in total agreement

and i'm sorry you had such a frustrating day, sweetie

:hug:

[Danger Mouse]

41. thanks love...

:hug:
and thanks for the text message.

[fizzgig]

43. of course

i'm just glad i could be of some help

:hug:

[LostInAnomie]

45. Nope, MOST people should not fucking breed.

:thumbsup:

[Skittles]

57. I absolutely agree

there's a social thing saying everyone should get married and have kids when in reality, well over half of them should NOT

[Danger Mouse]

60. It's the job of a good Christian to get married, raise a family (whether or not you are capable)...

and warp and ruin them to your heart's content.

[Skittles]

73. lol

yes, I would say religion has a lot to do with messed-up people and their kids :(

[Danger Mouse]

74. i would say religion had a lot to do with why this country is so messed up...

sadly :(

[Skittles]

78. the world, actually

I believe religion is THE most destructive influence on this earth

[YellowRubberDuckie]

46. It is my life's mission to give those kids a good family life...

Once we buy a house, we're going to become Foster Parents. I watched a lot of kids come through the detention center where I used to work, and their parents were terrible to them. Many of them were headed to foster care after they left. I watched potential foster parents come in for a 15 minute visit to decide if they wanted the kids. It was ridiculous and sad. Those kids needed parents to love them, not people who were going to the pound to get a pet, which was more accurate. It should be harder to have a kid than to drive a freaking car.
Duckie

[Danger Mouse]

47. I'm just warning you...you probably know this but being a foster parent is hard.

Very very hard.
You have a good heart, though...a very good heart. :hug:

[AlienGirl]

49. Sounds like you have some contacts with The System?

[Danger Mouse]

51. I do. I work in The System, to some degree.

I've seen too much.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

58. I know it's hard.

I know how hard it was to be a guard in a detention center. I'm not going in with blinders on. I know it's going to be difficult. But I think all kids deserve a shot at at least a little bit of a normal family life for a little while. Thank you for being sweet.
Duckie

[Danger Mouse]

61. I figured you had an idea what you're getting into.

We need more people like you out there.
:hug: You're pretty sweet yourself.

[BarenakedLady]

50. Sounds like a rough day at work.

:hug:

[Danger Mouse]

52. Got it in one.

:hug:
Like I knew you would.

[kath]

59. I'm with ya, Elrond. The child abuse cases (and craptastic parenting) I saw during residency were

so heartbreaking. I starting thinking that "God" (not that I believe in such a thing) made such a huge mistake in making it way too easy to get pregnant by accident. What she SHOULD have done was made it impossible to get pregnant by having any "normal" type sex - you could do that just for fun, with no risk. Then, when you were ready to bring a child into the world, you would have to have sex in some secret special way, or say the magic words, and only then could you have a baby.
It's so wrong that so many innocent children are born into horribe situations that they don't deserve. If I could have one wish, it would be "every child a wanted child", like the Planned Parenthood motto. What a concept.

(Granted, even people that think they "want" kids can end up doing horrible things to them. But I still like my fantasy and wish :-) )

(and don't EVEN get me started about the stupid "right-to-lifers" who used to picket in front of the hospital with their stupid signs - I wanted to drag them over to the children's hospital and force them to see the kids with horrible bruises, deliberately inflicted burns (an awful case with this - dunked into a tub of scalding water. I still shudder thinking about her and it's been 20 years) and other types of abuse and say "LOOK - this is what happens to unwanted, unplanned babies! Why don't you do something to help these kids and others like them, rather than marching around with your stupid signs and whining about tiny little fetuses!")

[Danger Mouse]

62. DAMN STRAIGHT! I can't stand those 'right-to-life' morons who are SO CONCERNED

about a fetus, but then could give a shit about the child once it's been born. If life begins at conception, idiots, it CONTINUES AFTER BIRTH. People don't want Planned Parenthood or abortions but they don't want programs to help desparate parents or to assist with financial problems for struggling families.
'Every child a wanted child' would be a beautiful thing...unfortunately, i know plenty of 'wanted' children who were treated like shit regardless.

[Taverner]

65. Yup

I agree 100%

That's the biggest reason I support gay adoption. Gay couples WANT to be parents. That's more than I can say for the freepers our there....

[Danger Mouse]

69. And for the most part, they'd be better parents then freeptard losers who

keep popping out kids because 'contracepshin' is 'agin the Bible!!!!1'

[Bjornsdotter]

67. Omg.....

...you are in my subdivision! You have seen the people 2 doors from me, also known as "The Breeders."

They have an unknown number of children and they all look alike. The best I can figure is that there are 7 children from ages 10-2. Even their dog has run away, I've found him hiding in my house, unfortunately I had to take him home.

It's a scary place :scared:

Cheers

[Blue_Tires]

77. ttt n/t

[ellisonz]

79. Death to the Baby Cult!

There is nothing *special* about having your own genetically, either adopt or get a puppy.