So I visited a professor yesterday to discuss my next PhD application.

[Writer]

As we talked, he said that he encourages applicants to submit three recommendation letters attesting to the applicant's academic strength, and a fourth recommendation letter attesting to the person's emotional capability of handling the program and their maturity. He recommends that especially for the younger applicants. I wasn't sure if he thought me as a "younger applicant" (I'm 32.)

I have to admit, but I'm a little offended by the idea that I have to attest to my emotional/mental capabilities and my maturity through the form of a descriptive letter. My writing samples, my transcript, and my accomplishments (I feel) should be a strong enough indication of my capability to handle the program. Furthermore, the forms that the recommenders must complete have a numerical scale they can use to indicate my emotional maturity.

Also, I am a long sufferer of depression (20 years or so.) I have fought over that time to overcome major social anxieties that are a result of that depression. They only rarely appear now. I have been tested in my life, but I do not believe I need to be judged based on that. Otherwise I know I am fully capable of not only completing the program but being successful thereafter.

I'd like to know what others think about this?

[taterguy]

1. My limited understanding of the academic world is alot of things dont make sense

Sorry you're having to jump through more irrational hoops

[Writer]

7. This one is bothering me the more I think about it...

I don't know if it's irrational, but perhaps a bit intrusive.

[Bucky]

11. It's like that insurance application skit from Monty Python

The man brought in a two gallon urine sample as requested and the man in the office told him to just toss it out. The applicant asked him why they ever requested it then and the insurance agent said, "Oh, we just wanted to be sure that you really wanted the coverage."

Just ask your favorite bartender to write you the letter. It's a stupid rule and should be treated as such.

[philosophie_en_rose]

2. The only issue is whether you can do the work.

Your work speaks for itself. If you weren't mature enough to accomplish it, you wouldn't have. I think the emotional maturity issue is out of line.

I think it's fair for recommenders to mention dedication and hardwork. The school has no business inquiring as to potential disabilities.

[elshiva]

5. Thank you, philosophie_en_rose.

Writer, YOU ARE MATURE AND YOU DELIVER! That means something in our world.

[Writer]

8. Thanks, elshiva, I really do appreciate that.

:)

[elshiva]

9. You are welcome!

:) You will make it. You have a lot of issues in order already.

[Writer]

10. Hrmmm... maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way.

Maybe I'm thinking that my emotional issues will arise, and therefore I will be judged unfairly... when all they're looking for is that I can complete the program without complaining.

[elshiva]

3. Writer, this is a difficult deal and it is not fair.

:hug: Your work should speak for itself. Personally, I had to accept that I can never be a nun or a deacon in my church because of my depression and anxiety and that sucks.

However, please have some hope. You ARE capable of getting your PhD! Yes, it is difficult to get a PhD, but of course you know that already! It's not like brain surgery or being a nun, you don't have to care for the physical needs of others just the paper/brain part, which you have a lot of experience. Is there someone who knows you who can write a good letter? I'd write one for you if I could, but I only have a B.A.

Good luck and blessings.

[ChoralScholar]

4. I had to do the same thing when I applied to my doctoral program.

It's almost emasculating (or whatever the female equivalent would be) to get all those letters - but, for the most part, people are glad to do it for you.

It's also nice to know that 32 is still young in some circles. I feel like I'm getting old very quickly (I'm 30) - and that time is running out for things like this.

BTW, what field is the PhD in?

[Writer]

6. It's in media studies. n/t

[MissMillie]

12. I work at a college

and I have seen and edited a number of recommendation letters my boss has written for people applying to both Masters and PhD programs.

Almost all of them have included some comment about maturity and how it applies to work ethic.

That said, I don't think that having suffered from depression needs to be part of the letter. Your depression hasn't hindered your accomplishments thus far, and since your recommendation letters should be about what you've accomplished and what you're capable of accomplishing, you need not worry what anyone has to say about you in that regard.

[Writer]

15. Oh no, I certainly wouldn't state anywhere that I suffered from depression.

It wouldn't be appropriate. I wonder, however, if it would be better for them to interview their candidates - that way they would know who they were admitting? But that's none of my business. The program is the program, and how they admit their students is their prerogative.

[MissMillie]

18. oh.. there will be an interview, for sure!

Good luck w/ all this. It's hard work, to be sure, but I'm sure you've got it in you.

:toast:

[Writer]

21. Actually this will be my second attempt...

they don't interview their candidates. I really think they should reconsider that...

I had coffee with another prof. that same day who said that they've been admitting people who are a little "weird." :P

[rug]

13. Why don't you just submit that drinking thread with querelle.

[Writer]

16. LOL!

Here we go, rug:

Accomplishment. June 2007. A man showed me a dirty picture of himself after challenging him and beating him in a game of Imbibement.

;)

Hey - I'm a smart woman who knows how to have fun. ;)

[greymattermom]

14. letters

Recommendation letters are all the same. Everyone is the top candidate, intelligent, hard working, etc. The only line that matters in these letters is the last one. If is says, "If you'd like additional informaton, feel free to call", the person is a problem and you should call.

[Writer]

17. Oh my.

My recommenders are all from the school I'm applying to. Maybe they'll write, "If you'd like additional information, meet me down at the local bar and I will tell you ALL about it, wink-wink."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Getting four letters of recommendation...

is insignificant in comparison to the work you'll be doing as a PhD student.

If you have problems doing that, you'll have problems with the real work.

[Writer]

22. I don't think it is the volume of letters that are a concern.

And given that I did all of this last year with near success, I think I will be okay in regard to the workload.

[rockymountaindem]

20. What are you applying for?

I just got accepted to a MA/Ph.D program and I didn't have to write anything about my maturity or work ethic. All I had to do was get three academic recommendations and write a statement about my research interests and why I want to attain a Ph.D. There was a lot of work involved in the application, but at least it was straightforward.

[Writer]

23. PhD in media studies...

where are you starting your program?

[rockymountaindem]

24. Not to be paranoid, but I'd rather not say

I'm not sure if the program is going to put my name up on a website yet, and since it's a very small program people could use that to figure out who I am. I'm not sure if the people at the department would appreciate that either. I'll just say that it's a social science program at a large east coast university. Hopefully I'll be able to post more about it later.

Back to your issue, however, I'm kind of surprised that programs are asking you about this. I'm quite young at this point, and all I saw were check boxes on the evaluation forms I gave to my profs that asked them to rate my "emotional development" or something like that. I don't know if they wrote more extensively about it in their letters. Asking the student to evaluate their own emotional state seems kind of dumb, though. What do they expect someone to say? "I'm well qualified but I freak out all the time and I can't concentrate for more than five minutes." Even if that's the case, I don't think someone trying to get in would come out and say it.

[electron_blue]

25. This is just one opinion. Ask 4 people to send you letters of rec.

Once they get the required forms from the schools, it will mention that they want the letter writer to discuss maturity as well as academic preparedness. I wouldn't bring up your history of depression or anxiety at all. for one thing, it's pretty rampant, you're not alone, so why single yourself out.

[mitchum]

26. Well, you do know that professor will take your emotional health status and...

pass it off as his own