so, i just got into a debate about predestination

[Ava]

what are you doing this afternoon? lol

[otherlander]

1. Went with a friend to see Harry Potter

Her mom, who was there with us, kept talking during the movie, going, "OH NO!" and "YAY!".
-_-;
Then she fell asleep and my friend had to wake her up when the movie was over.

[Ava]

14. sounds fun! lol

sorry to hear about that - hope you had a good time regardless!

[idgiehkt]

2. part watching CSI, part getting ready to read a sad book

part posting in the lounge and now pondering the concept of predestination. :) :hi:

[Ava]

13. i love having random "deep" discussion on topics like predestination

religion, theology, philosophy, politics, they're all my thing ;)

[Omphaloskepsis]

3. Having a beer and I just finished downloading the Transformers movie.

I will watch it and curse while Michael Bay destroys any fond memory of my second favorite childhood toy. Lego's being #1 if anyone cares.

[Orrex]

4. That's theft, of course. And anyway, Mega Bloks are better

Unless you just can't live without Spongebob and Avatar building sets.

:evilgrin:

[Ava]

11. i actually liked it

then again i wasn't a fan of the transformers originally, lol

[Nevernose]

15. Oh, my man, that's a REAL disservice

"Transformers: the Second Movie" was actually pretty good. In fact, it was the best summer action movie I've seen in YEARS. I wasn't even drunk.

And I could be the president of the "Michael Bay Should Fucking Die Because He Sucks So Awfully" fan club.

There were some new Transformers I wasn't used to. I'd seen them in more recent cartoons, but didn't really KNOW them, since I'm not a religious watcher like I was when I was a kid. They didn't use any of the orginal music, as far as I could tell (and I was realy looking forward to "The Touch" :)). The exposition scenes were filled with comedy (GOOD), but the comedy frequently fell flat (BAD).

Those problems were minor, though.

If you do not see this movie on the big screen, you will be doing yourself a serious disfavor. You need to see it on the big screen in a theater full of people, gasping and clapping and laughing all at the same time.

SPOILERS:
They changed energon cubes, but they make sense now, too.
They reference the first movie -- even QUOTE it -- and do no injustice to the original series.

In short: it was good.

[Omphaloskepsis]

18. Well, I have keys to a movie theater that has it.. I could sneak in tonight and watch it.

I fix the projectors there for extra cash, I was a projectionist for a long time. But, I don't really want to ride my bike over there.

[Orrex]

5. Ah yes, the Great Fate Debate

You crazy kids these days.

Of course, since the beginning of time you were bound to have that discussion, just as I was bound to post this eloquent and poignant reply.

[Ava]

9. the great fate debate? i like it!

i'm stealing that! :rofl:

[Orrex]

23. Heck, since the beginning of time, you were bound to steal it

Who am I to meddle with the unfolding of the universe?

[Ava]

25. exactly! now you were destined to give me all your money too!

:P

[Orrex]

26. That explains it

And here I thought that I was broke for no reason. Now that I know that the universe guided my no doubt considerable funds into your possession, I can breathe more easily.

[Ava]

32. yeah - now if only the checks were getting to me

it seems the mailman must be stealing them!

[Orrex]

37. Pfft. Tell it to the universe.

Those darned letter carriers are always losing the mail and fouling up the spacetime continuum.

[Ava]

41. maybe predestiny was for you to give the money to me only to be lost in the mail

so where is it going? :shrug: :P

[Orrex]

47. I dunno. Wormhole or something. What am I? Stephen Hawking?

But since matter can't be created or destroyed, I'm sure you'll get them some time before the universe comes to an end, if that's any consolation.

[Ava]

52. i dont know - you tell me? were you predestined to be stephen hawking?

and then hide it from us all this time? and if so then why are you not sending me MORE money? :P

[Orrex]

55. I'm not Hawking. Trust me--he's a much better dancer than I am

Mysterious indeed are the ways of the universe.

[Ava]

56. dang it

too bad :P

[Orrex]

57. Hey, who's that on your avatar, by the way?

[Ava]

58. me

:hi:

[Orrex]

59. You're smaller than I figured

Must be the universe collapsing. Or something.

[Ava]

60. i'm a modern day thumbelina

duh! :rofl: :P

[Orrex]

62. Hey now!

Don't make me bust out Avanescence on you again...

[The Straight Story]

6. Life is like a movie - we already acted it

And so we can see what we have done but not change it....This is a replay

:)

[Ava]

10. yeah yeah yeah - talk to the hand

:P

[The Straight Story]

35. Which hand :)

but seriously, I am open to discussion on the whole thing.

[InternalDialogue]

7. I knew you were going to bring this up.

You thought you had free will, but even so, your choices would always bring you to this point.

:P

I worked like usual, but had a long walk this afternoon and spent half an hour in a spice shop. Nothing like getting personalized spice recommendations.

[Ava]

12. yes, we are all in the matrix - nothing is real and all is an illusion

:P

glad to hear you got some good spices!

[supernova]

8. Predestination?

Did you run into a Neanderthal Presbyterian?

[Ava]

16. i'm afraid so

seriously though, there are people of all religions that say things such as "god took him from us for a reason" or "god does things for a reason." god doesn't control us imo. predestination pretty much contradicts free will. while i believe god gives us opportunities in our lives, those opportunities are always our choices to pass up or take advantage of and our own actions caused by our own free will. i do not believe that my loving god kills people or ends their lives prematurely. i do not believe that my god doesn't allow me to make my own choices. Wwhy does a loving god let atrocities happen on a daily basis? because he gives us our own choices and we have the free will to commit our own actions - and face the consequences for those actions. i'm a Christian btw, I just don't believe that god "takes lives" or "has a destiny for us" but rather lets us take our own paths with or without him - that is why he is such a loving god, he lets us make our own choices.

[supernova]

17. They must have been PCA

Presbyterian Church in America, ultra conservatives who don't even ordain women. :P They make the SBC look like a rave.

I grew up in the Presby Church USA, which is the more liberal wing. I don't remember predestination as anything other than a "we used to believe this..." tenent.

And of course we all have Free Will.

[Ava]

20. i have family members who belog to it

it may explain why we are not very close, lol :rofl:

seriously though - i don't get it.

[Critters2]

21. Or Orthodox Presbyterian, or Reformed Presbyterian, or

Christian Reformed.

But technically, "God took him from us for a reason" isn't predestination. Predestination is "God decided at the beginning of Creation that God would take him for a reason now."

I went to liberal Reformed seminary, that had a few Orthodox Presbys around for some reason. Ask me about supra- vs infra-predestination!

[Ava]

24. i've actually done some research into it

i come from a religion family and my grandfather use to be a preacher. he did not believe in predestination. on my dad's side of the family they are presbyterian who do believe in predestination.

[Critters2]

27. What sort of Presbyterians?

I'm United Church. Our roots, like the Presbys, are in the Genevan Reform. But I was confirmed using the Heidelberg Catechism, which teaches "soft Calvinism". That is, Reformed folk think we're elect (if anyone is), but we don't concern ourselves with who may or may not be reprobate (predestined to hell). It's just a hop, skip, and a jump from there to Universalism--the idea that everyone is saved--which is the position of most in my church. So, we believe in predestination in that everyone is saved, but saved by grace not because everyone is so unflinchingly good that, well, "what else could God do?"

Frankly, all that infra- supra stuff made my head swim. But it was fun to watch the ultra-Presbyterians go at each other about it!!

[Ava]

33. PCA

:scared:

[SPKrazy]

44. *snerk*

didn't i see those guys on a geico ad?

:shrug:

most of the predestination folks i've come across are good ol' southern baptist.

but, you find them anywhere, and whatever?

there are some neanderthal presbyterians, and neanderthal everything else. Not all those guys in the commercial are presbyterians :P

[Danger Mouse]

19. 'Everything happens for a reason' is what a lot of people say...

to try and find some sort of meaning to some of the horrible things that happens in their lives.
It's partially true. There are some things that happen for a reason.
Sometimes, though, stuff just happens, and it's bad or good.
many people want to think of god as a great big angry old man in a robe hurling thunderbolts at gays and liberals, or as a coddling daddy who has laid everything in life out for you (who also hurls thunderbolts at gays and liberals).
I think that, if there is a God, the whole deal is a lot more cosmic than that.
How can man beging to comprehend the workings of God?

[Ava]

22. i don't believe god pre-plans our lives though

everything does happen for a reason because the natural laws of the universe cause one action to lead to another or one decision to lead to another. everything happens for a reason because of our actions and decisions and not because of divine interaction imo. like i said, god gives us choices, in my opinion, and doesn't plan out our lives without our own free will. as you said though, none of us can comprehend the workings of god.

[Danger Mouse]

28. ah, well you're talking on a grander scale.

well...presuming there is a god who has control over everything, then yes, all the big things that happen are probably planned out. our lives, however, not so much?
i guess it makes sense.
stop trying to break my brain :P

[Ava]

34. i will not rest until you brain is broken

:P

[Danger Mouse]

43. was this predetermined by the cosmic plan?

:P

[Ava]

49. no no no, rather a spur of the moment avadestined plan

that i just now made up :rofl:

[Critters2]

30. It's funny, but after 20 years in ministry,

I don't even think about such questions. I'm often amazed when laypeople ask me about such things, because I never think about them. Which means they must not come up in scripture much, cuz I have to write and preach a sermon every week.

Jesus worried more about ethics than cosmology. But cosmology is a great distraction from ethics.

[Ava]

36. well too often the words in red are ignored

and instead we focus on what fits our own personal agendas. christ's words, actions, and teachings are the most important part of the bible. i myself have not read all of the bible or even close to all of it but i'm not hypocritical about it like so many church goers that i know.

[Critters2]

39. Most churchgoers I know aren't so much hypocritical

as they are trying to be decent in a less than decent world. Once you get to know their stories and their pain, it's a lot harder to judge them. And a lot easier to love them.

[Ava]

42. my mom use to be a fundamentalist christian - very conservative

so she always instilled me with exactly what you are talking about

[Critters2]

45. Of course, I serve a lefty progressive church

but I still think most ordinary folks are just trying to do their best.

[Ava]

50. i absolutely agree with that

i guess before i was talking about many of the "big time" religious leaders

[Critters2]

51. Yeah, they're the problem.

I don't think most of 'em believe what they're saying. I could be wrong, but I'm very skeptical of 'em.

[Ava]

53. so am i

i believe a lot of it is power hunger and greed

[Critters2]

54. I think they get a little power and notoriety

and it goes to their heads. They start to believe their own PR. It can happen with progressives, too. We just don't get the media attention.

[Omphaloskepsis]

31. Oh fuck.. The free-will debate.

A not so funny story.. My freshman year in college I was taking a class on Metaphysics.. Well, the free-will thing came up during our discussion period. We had a rather heated argument between two young ladies. One of them pulled a Bible out of her backpack and started beating the other girl with it. It was insane. It got broken up quickly. Keep in mind that they were sitting about 20 feet from each other when the Bible ninja went onion.

[Ava]

38. i seriously hope that is made up

the bible is often used as a weapon - even when it isn't being used as a physical weapon.

[Omphaloskepsis]

46. I'm not joking.. It was surreal.

Seriously, the girl just snapped when someone said that she didn't believe in god. She pulled a Bible out of her bag, ran across the room with it, and started hitting the girl in the face with the Bible.

[Ava]

48. well she sure isn't showing the love of christ very well

:scared: yikes!

[otherlander]

61. Just in case I ever run into anyone like that...

I want to join a religion where the holy book is made of knives.

[SPKrazy]

29. It was pre-ordained that you would have this debate about predestination

and in fact, it was predetermined what the outcome would be. :P


:hi:


how are you!

I'm good. It isn't afternoon anymore, but I've just been talking to a friend, and hanging out here a bit.

Work was this afternoon. :P

:pals:

good to see you Ava!

my hero!

[Ava]

40. glad to hear you are doing well

feel free to jump into a our free will/predestination debate anytime :P ;) :pals: