Excellent book: "Help at any Cost" by Maia Szalavitz -- teenage boot camps

[LostinVA]

A great look/expose at the for-profit boot camp and "wilderness" camp industry in the United States, and how bogus and abusive they are. I know this isn't anything new, but this is the first in depth look at the abuse and deaths that occur at these places.

I have never, ever understood how courts and law enforcement allow the kidnapping and abuse of American citizens to happen, just because the people involved are under 18. Many are dragged off by strangers to other countries, impriosned, for YEARS... some for things as "bad" as being gay or wearing black. I believe that the rights of the kids should supersede the rights of the parents in these situations. And, as anyone who knows anything about behavior modification, negative reinforcement doesn't improve someone. It just intimidates and terrorizes them.


on edit: I almost put this in GD, but then came to my senses.

[skygazer]

1. Well, I have to point out

That when we allow the kidnapping and abuse of American citizens who are dragged off by strangers to other countries and imprisoned for years who are NOT under 18 (see "extraordinary rendition"), it's not much of a stretch to see how this is allowed.

Sounds like a grim but interesting read. I've made a note of it.

[LostinVA]

3. That's actually an excellent point, too

I guess, it always appalls me that minors are often treated as having "less important" rights than adults.

[Midlodemocrat]

2. A pro-child post? Are you out of your fucking mind?

:hide:

[LostinVA]

4. I know, I know -- hey, I'm starting to get wedding jitters

I'm vulnerable.

Have you read this by any chance?

[Midlodemocrat]

5. I haven't. But I know enough anecdotally to have made

a decision a long time ago that those boot camps are a disaster and should be shut down.

They're not the solution. But I also don't feel Tough Love is either. In my experience, the kid was always acting out as a reaction to something and the parents either didn't want to see it, or were just too clueless to see it.

[LostinVA]

6. Your last paragraph is right on target, imo

I've read about the abuse and deaths for years, but the whole industry is also really incestuous.

Scary stuff.

[Midlodemocrat]

7. My biggest problem with the whole Tough Love movement

is that parents were being told to essentially turn their backs on their children. Children were learning in a very real way that their parent's love was therefore conditional.

I never advocated it and when I had parents of patients ask me for my blessing, I told them that I would no longer be able to treat their family if they went that route.

These boot camps seem, to me anyway, to be a harsher, more violent version of Tough Love and I don't think they're helping or healthy.

[LostinVA]

10. The BIGGEST red flag to me:

You can't communicate with your kid, nor they with you for a long time. THEN, when you can via phone or letters, you're told to ignore any complaints of abuse, etc. they might make -- because they are huge manipulators.

So, your kid is isolated and controlled by strangers and you're told not to believe them if they say they are being abused. WTF is wrong with this picture?

It's shocking to me how many of these kids are good kids -- just kids who need a little support and help, or even drug rehab, not "tough love" that has no love.

[kay1864]

8. Ignernt question:

Are there military camps / 6-week military schools that aren't boot camps? i.e., are there camps for "problem kids" that aren't abusive? That just teach self-discipline and respect for authority, without screaming or physical abuse?

[LostinVA]

9. No -- although there were (maybe still are?) some wilderness programs like that

Like Outward Bound.

[Midlodemocrat]

11. I personally don't think that a boot camp is the tool

to teach a child self-discipline or respect for authority.

JMHO. YMMV.

[noonwitch]

12. It depends on the individual program in question

When I worked in the delinquency end of things, we had a good one we used through a private agency. The program taught the kids some very good survival skills and some basic building skills, along with getting them physically in shape. This program had a strong family component to it, and they brought the parents up for visits on a regular basis. But these were kids who had all been convicted of a crime. What I liked about the program was the way they built the kids up, physically and mentally, while addressing their educational and emotional needs. The kids were not necessarily allowed to call home on the phone, but they were allowed to send and receive mail to and from family (although there were some limits, none applied to family if the family was not abusive). The writing of letters was encouraged, because it was considered to be also educational (developing writing skills).

Not all states use the same standards when licensing programs like this. Florida appears to have few standards when it comes to children's services-they have missing foster children who are not runaway teenagers (there is a difference) and they have boot camps programs that have had kids die from their "tough love". All they are doing is preparing the kids for a future incarceration or mental hospitalization.