*SPOILERS* Plot hole in book 7?

[kay1864]

(thanks to Firespirit for pointing this out)

About them Horcruxes...

Wikipedia says that:
In Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore states that he believes it is likely that Voldemort created six Horcruxes from six important murders, and kept the remaining portion of his soul within his body, thus keeping his soul in seven places.

And Firespirit asked:

If Voldemort's soul was blown apart when his curse backfired, and it attached a piece to Harry, then it doesn't seem possible he could have made Nagini into a Horcrux some 13 years later. Yet Dumbledore seemed convinced that this was when he did that to the snake. What gives with this? Was he mistaken, or just feeding BS to Harry?

I remember, in book 6, Harry being all horrified and gasping out, "He made seven Horcruxes?" during that chapter, and Dumbledore immediately said, "No, six." Ah, the irony of it.

And Dumbledore said in book 6 that he thought it was Frank Bryce's murder that Voldemort used for Nagini.

So the seven places are:

1. Diary
2. Peverell ring
3. Slytherin locket
4. Hufflepuff cup
5. Ravenclaw diadem
6. Nagini
7. Voldemort himself

8. Harry Potter (possibly unknown to Voldemort)



So... when were the Horcruxes created?

Diary: Not sure. Who was murdered to make it a Horcrux? Moaning Myrtle (in 1943), perhaps? But she was killed by the basilisk, not by Tom Riddle.

Ring: 1942, when Tom Riddle killed his father and grandparents

Locket and cup: 1945, when Riddle killed Hepzibah Smith.

Diadem: Not sure. Riddle found its location (tree in Albania) from Helena Ravenclaw's ghost, while he was at Hogwarts (1938-1946). Presumably he acquired the diadem itself soon after. Who was murdered to make it a Horcrux?

Harry (inadvertantly): 1981

Nagini: Per Dumbledore, in 1994. But as Firespirit points out, very odd that V would wait almost 50 years between his 5th and 6th Horcruxes, and that he would wait that long to safeguard the magical 7 pieces of his soul.

[Debi]

1. Diadem

I thought he was in Albania for a decade, looking for the diadem, after he left Hogwarts and THEN he returned it to Hogwarts.

[kay1864]

2. I think he went there twice

First to find the diadem. The decade was after killing Harry's parents. He hid in the forest there, possessing the bodies of animals, until Professor Quirrell happened along.

At least that's what Wikipedia says :P

[Debi]

3. Wiki would not fail us

I just remembered something about the ten years in Ablania from the book (sadly the book has already been passed on to it's next reader and I won't see it again for some time).

[kay1864]

4. Maybe JKR will clear up about the Horcruxes

She said it's extremely unlikely that she will write another HP novel, but she has mentioned the possibility of an HP encyclopedia.

What I really hope she explains is, which two people died who weren't going to originally (my money's on Lupin and Tonks *sniff*), and who lived who was originally going to die.

[dropkickpa]

5. He *deliberately* made 6 horcruxes

Harry was an unknown (to V) accident, a side effect of the killing curse bouncing off Harry's protection give by his mother's life. I don't count V as being a horcrux himself, as everyone has a soul residing in their body according to the books, he just took chunks of his out placing them elsewhere, leaving only a small piece in it's original vessel.

[Firespirit]

6. OK to clarify

Here are my thoughts on the matter, crossposted from the other thread. The only possible plot hole I see is the date that the snake was made into a Horcrux, because... well, see below. :)



The Diary: I used to think it was impossible that Myrtle could have been the death for the diary, because Tom would've been a fifth year and hadn't had the Conversation with his professor yet. But since that conversation is now supposed to have been just a way for him to find out if one could have multiple horcruxes, it's entirely possible that he knew how to do it before then (and could've already created one). Tom's intent would also have been an issue, whether he intended to murder her when he called up the basilisk, or if her death was an accident. I imagine that if she wasn't the death used, then Tom Riddle Sr. almost certainly was, because in book 2 the Riddle phantom said he was 16 years old. (OK, some 16-year-olds get their driver's licenses as their rite of passage. Different strokes, I guess. :P)

The ring: He was still wearing it when he had the conversation with Slughorn. It may or may not have been a horcrux by then. I'm not taking Dumbledore's word at face value anymore when it has to do with horcruxes. But Tom was definitely not wearing it by the time he worked for Borgin and Burkes, ca. 1945. The HBP book also says that the Riddle who worked there looked slightly more gaunt (har, har) and angular, so it's implied he had at least one. Two if he had already made the diary.

The locket: He stole this in the mid- to late-1940s, but didn't hide it until 1979, when he took Kreacher to the island with him. Perhaps he had just heard the Prophecy and didn't want to have this item lying around. There is no way to identify who he killed for it.

The cup: Stolen at the same time as the locket. I suspect that he killed Hepzibah Smith for this murder and framed her house elf for it with a modified memory, just as he had done with his uncle Morfin. It seems a "suitable" murder for a Hufflepuff artifact. He was definitely on the scene when she was killed, because he ran off with the items.

The diadem: Researched at Hogwarts, stolen at an unknown time, turned into a Horcrux before he returned to Hogwarts to "ask for the Defense Against the Dark Arts job" in the mid-1950s. He dropped it off at the school in this same meeting.

The snake: Who knows? I do not buy the 1994 date for this, for the three reasons I've stated plus an additional one I thought of: (1) Voldy's soul was unstable enough to break apart of its own volition in 1981, so I don't see how he could have fragmented it further 14 years later. (2) Pettigrew was at hand and I can't see him casting the Horcrux curse when the rat could hear it. (3) Why would he wait 30 years after making 5 others in a short period of time, approximately a decade, which he most definitely did? And (4) in the scene in book 4 when Voldemort's wand was regurgitating its past spells, there was no spell that could've fit the Horcrux spell. It went straight from a Cruciatus Curse (I think) to the shade of Bryce, whereas if there had been a Horcrux, that should have been an intermediate spell.

Harry: Halloween 1981, by accident, without the use of the creation curse.

[Neoma]

7. Voldemort isn't a horcrux.

He's just what's left.