I need somehow to stop this craziness . . .

[Bullwinkle925]

I am going to meet my friend (who has been in my life for over 30 yrs) YET AGAIN to try to talk some kind of *sense* into her. I already know that I will be beating my head against the wall. Her self-esteem doesn't exist. I've been able in the past to get her to seek therapy and she's now on antidepressants, but due to finances, she has had to stop meeting with her therapist and her self-esteem issues are rearing its ugly head again. I received a call on my cell this morning while I was at my local Farmer's Mkt. with her bawling into the phone and mumbling something I couldn't quite understand. Turns out that she had to sit on the bench again at her softball game. She's getting older. There are younger, better players.
To make a very long story short - I'm going to tell her today that this is the last time I want to hear this shit. She needs to get off her DUFF and find something ELSE TO OCCUPY HER TIME WITH. Apparently baseball is over for her - she needs to confront that fact. I've tried in the past to console her and talk to her with kid gloves on, to no avail apparently. Of course, this could be passive-aggressive attention getting - who knows? There are many other things that set her off as well - not just baseball. She has concerns regarding her relationship with her husband that she likes to whine about but ultimately do nothing to correct. She gravitates toward people in her office who stomp all over her - yell at her and despite anything I seem to tell her - she doesn't keep her relationship with this one particular woman purely professional and stay out of personal trivial talk.

EGAD - do any of you have this kind of person in your life? She's pushing 60 now for Chrissake. I just wish that whatever time left she has on this planet - that she would just get off the 'poor me' crap and do something really really positive for herself. Learn something new. Do something new. Heaven knows life hasn't been all that fair to me - or to MANY MANY people on this earth. You need to forgive, forget and go on!

sigh

Thanks for letting me rant.
:rant:

[begin_within]

1. What purpose does it serve you to spend time with her or talk to her?

[Bullwinkle925]

3. i really am beginning to wonder . . .

we actually had an 8 year break in our relationship and then got back together - her husband and my husband are friends as well - but there's so much pathology going on - she and i have so much in common - with the exception of self-esteem issues, that is. i really do care for her - but i'm sick of the crap that never changes. i'm going to ask her today if she really doesn't want the crap to change - if she's comfortable with all the negativity? if so, then we will have to go our separate ways. i've tried and tried to help - perhaps she isn't aware of how tired i am of it?

[begin_within]

17. All I can really say is...

... "If you keep on doing what you did, you'll keep on getting what you got."

[Bullwinkle925]

19. sadly true . . .

in fact that's what i told her today - the definition of *crazy* is doing something repeatedly and expecting a different outcome - sort of what WE'RE DOING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead:

[begin_within]

22. I don't see anything changing unless you change what you do. Not just what you say,

what you do. As long as you continue doing what you do, playing the role you play, and being what she wants you to be in this relationship, nothing is going to change. Just telling her something is useless, it will just fall on deaf ears. You have to change what you do, that is all that will make any difference. For example, being less available to her, etc. That's up to you to decide. But if you don't change your role, nothing will change at all because she's not going to change for your sake.

[Bullwinkle925]

23. boy, don't think that thought doesn't go around and around and around . . .

in my mind all the time. there are many times when i haven't returned her phone calls or e-mails. this just isn't any person who has been in my life, but she has been a very pivotal one - she and her now-husband stood by our side when my husband and i married.
i think that in the future i will have to sternly tell her that i can no longer be the one for her to unload to - she needs to touch base again with a therapist for that. i do have too much on my plate now and would really just like to have a *friend* there to do fun things with.

[begin_within]

24. Fine... but if simply telling her that doesn't work, you will have to SHOW her you mean it.

[Bullwinkle925]

26. indeed - 'Tough Love' for friends . . .

have you been through anything like this? she is the only one in my life who is like this and i have many, many friends. i really do hope, for her sake, that she is able to get it together in some sort of fashion so that she can enjoy what's left of her life. but, the thought does cross my mind that this is how she perceives enjoyment.

[begin_within]

28. Yes, I have ended friendships because of this.

First I think you need to do a cost/benefit analysis of this relationship. It may seem cold, but it's necessary for you to decide what to do. List the costs of this relationship to you, then list the benefits you get out of this relationship. Then make the key decision - is the benefit worth the cost? Be totally honest. The fact that you have known her a long time should not enter into that decision. It's a simple yes/no. Is the benefit worth the cost? If you decide that it's not worth the cost, then you must take steps to either change or end the relationship. If you decide that it should end, I would recommend doing it somewhat slowly, rather than suddenly which can be difficult and painful to do. Just gradually reduce your exposure to her and the amount of time you will spend with her. She will gradually adapt to the new reality and you will too. If she notices this and asks why, tell her the truth. If I were in your position, I would reduce the amount of time I spent with this person or anything related to her. I would reduce it dramatically, but also gradually. But that is up to you of course. "All the answers are in you," my friend says to me now and then.

[Bullwinkle925]

29. i know you are right . . .

i will attempt to do this as humanely as i possibly can. thanks for listening and for being there for me! i do appreciate it!

:hug:

[Haole Girl]

2. Pushing 60?!

Wow... by the sounds of it, I thought she was maybe 20 or 25! The only advice I can think of, for someone with that many issues, is counseling. There has to be some sort of free or discounted counseling/medication services she can find... right? From what I've learned, it's dangerous to just abruptly stop anti-depressants like that. Good luck. I hope your friend will be ok.

[Bullwinkle925]

5. fortunately - she has an hmo plan - kaiser - and she does see a . . .

psychiatrist there who renews her script for the antidepressants. i'm going to ask her today to have him refer her to a kaiser therapist. she really likes the therapist that she has been seeing outside of her hmo - but this really has to stop.

[Haole Girl]

6. hmm... yeah, just re-read that

I assumed she'd stopped both. Sometimes, (often, in fact) medication alone is not enough. I really hope she can pull herself together. :hug:

[LaraMN]

4. It might sound mean, but sometimes the best thing you can do

for someone like that is to stop sympathizing with them.
If all your good advice goes unheeded anyway, it may be the reality check she needs, to hear that you're through with holding her hand.
I know it sounds harsh, but some people have to learn to stop wallowing in their own misery, in order to find a way out of it. I think that it can become habit, otherwise.

It's good that she's sought medical and psychological help, at least. I hope she's able to resume therapy soon.

:(

[Bullwinkle925]

7. Actually - I've said some things in the past couple of years that I think sounded *mean* . . .

in trying to get her to wake up. I'm really going to have the most frank and honest talk with her this afternoon. I don't want to hurt her feelings - but she needs to stop this childish behavior and get a grip on herself. Selfishly, I have enough on my plate without all of this - I would like to see her become an adult and find out that there is a lot to life to be interested in and get out of her rut of self-pity.

[skygazer]

8. She sounds very much like my late sister

Same thing - always calling with dramas and dilemmas and situations. The problem is, with my sister and it sounds like with your friend, they're not looking for any kind of concrete help or solutions. They're looking for validation for their part in the drama.

I tried for so many years to offer support and suggestions for ways she could ease some of the pressure but everything was greeted with, "Oh, that won't work because...." or "Well, I can't do that..."

I finally realized that she just wanted someone to dump all her shit on and tell her she was right. Which is exhausting. She was my sister though, and had serious health issues. Though I got a little rough with her at one point, I couldn't cut her out entirely. She had no one (largely on account of the way she was but even so...).

She died last year having never learned anything about any of this. Don't count on your friend learning anything either. Some people never do.

And here's a hug for you for trying. :hug:

[Bullwinkle925]

9. You're right . . .

I feel that this is one of her ways of *enjoyment* on some level. She doesn't want to have things actually be worked out - then WHAT would she do? She also has a menagerie (and I like animals - don't get me wrong) that she is pathological about. Everything *runs* her life but herself. I'm wondering how much I am going to dump on her today. There is a lot, believe me!!!

[skygazer]

10. Well, my suggestion would be not to dump anything on her

If she's anything like my sister, she'll simply feed off it. I'd try to limit your time with her, be noncommital about her issues and don't let her drag you into them. She'll find someone else to provide her with what she needs.

Just my experience, anyway. :hi:

[Bullwinkle925]

11. I am going to tell her how I feel - that she is definitely wearing on our

*friendship* and that she does need to get her head out of her arse (I won't put it that way even though i'd like to) and get on with positive things in life. i have too much negative things in my life right now - i really don't need any more.

[Gormy Cuss]

20. You could try that tack without mentioning her quirks.

Simply leave it at you have too much negativity in your life and you need her, as a friend, to understand that you don't have the energy to be supportive of her problems right now.

That or have DTBK kick her ass. Those are my suggestions. ;)

[Bullwinkle925]

21. Well, gormy - as it just so happened . . .

i was watching the Giants today and sometime during the game i saw Kevin Mitchell in the broadcast booth being interviewd by Kruk & Kuip. . . they asked him what he had been doing since he left baseball and part of his answer was "i've surrounded myself with positive people and have found out that positive things have come my way".
since my friend is also a hugh Giants fan - i brought that little item up to her when i met with her. i tried to get her to see that she has many, many options open to her - that not playing softball any longer doesn't have to be the end-all, be-all that she seems to be feeling right now. i hope that she listened and is thinking of other things that she can do to fill the void that softball has been for her for over 30 years. i know that there will be a 'grieving' period - but i did ask her to view it as the "when one door closes - another one opens" kind of thing.
i hope she takes heed and does find something else that she'll have as much passion for.

[VenusRising]

12. I am going through the exact same thing right now.

Only my friend and I are 30 now. She's been driving me insane with the incessant whining and depression.

She loves to hand people who care nothing for her a knife and then expose her throat for slitting, and then wonders why everything is so bad. I can tell her until I'm blue in the face what she should do, and there is always an excuse why she can't. Today was my last straw when she called and woke me up. Unfortunately for her, my husband was awake and answered the phone. He was brutally honest with her about her crap. We love her and are the godparents of her daughter, but sometimes you have to say enough.

I know where you are, and I empathize with you.

:hug::hug::hug:

[JitterbugPerfume]

13. I had a friend like that

but it gradually occurred to me that she was using me as an ego buster, and sounding board. The final straw was when she INSISTED on me coming to her house (200 miles away) and I was trying to explain to her why I couldn't come right now, and she said she was coming to get me!

I ended up calling her daughter and explaining what had happened and she told me she would take care of it , and that she was sorry her mom was acting so crazy.

I haven't seen this person in about three years, and my stress levels have gone down proportionally. I do not "cut off" friends indiscriminately , but sometimes it just needs to be done.

[AngryAmish]

14. 1. Get a nice bottle of wine

2. Put on a baseball game.

3. Tuen off the phone and ignore her.

4. Drink the bottle of wine.

5. Go to bed.

[Bullwinkle925]

15. LOL . . .

I clicked onto your profile and said "Yup - a male point of view" . . . if only it were that simple. sigh. but - i'm sure a good bottle of wine will come into play at some point. and i'm actually watching/listening to the Giants even as i type.

[idgiehkt]

16. stop trying to control her and make her do anything

you are giving her a target for resistance...

cease and desist. If she does take action, it won't happen until you do.

[Bullwinkle925]

18. you could be right . . .

that is something i have thought about many many times.

[idgiehkt]

30. if she's stuck

and using you to stay stuck, there is an approach they use in al-anon that might work for you. Every time she starts with the complaining or whatever, answer it with "what are you gonna do about it?". Don't give her advice. Just ask that question, over and over. She might stop using you as a shoulder to cry on, and she might actually do something to change things...either way it might save your sanity.

[treestar]

25. Maybe there's an over 60 league?

There must be leagues for oldies, if she's still playing.

I've been there. The best thing other people could do is just leave it be, and she'll work her own way out of it. The attempts to help usually are more like rubbing salt in the wound. Leave it be and it'll heal up on its own.

[Bullwinkle925]

27. that's what i asked her today . . .

there's a bit more to the story - the team she is on is coached by her husband's sister's partner. i mentioned today that if it were myself, i would play out the season - 2 more games and playoffs, if any, and then when the *coach* approaches her again for next season, to politely excuse herself and tell her that her schedule is full and she can't fit it in. look for another team if she really, really wants to play - but she seems to be against that thought.
nothing more i can do or say at this point. she will have to work it out for herself.

[NuttyFluffers]

31. for some people drama is like breathing, and sympathy the oxygen

she gets all worked up, and then you get worked up, and thus she feeds off of that. it doesn't matter if you are consoling her, giving her advice (which she'll never do), or telling her off for being a spineless puddle of goo -- all that matters is that she is MAKING *YOU* FEEL. that is the control, that is the high. her madness and drama is manifesting its power through its contagion.

the answer: suck the oxygen out

everyone gave you the proper response. you already know the answer. you don't need to reply to anyone anymore, because the solution is already here. you simply stop providing the drug to the junkie.

whether you do that by isolation, apathy, reflexive questioning loop, or reference to therapy, it doesn't matter. it's all the same solution. so the next thing is whether or not you are going to do it, or are you going to keep updating us on a situation with irrelevancies.

PS: i know i sound cold, but i've went through this in my life too. and i've also know that this madness tends to spread its contagion to seemingly sane people unknowingly. they end up relating their friends madness and then it starts to snowball. it's very true when people say, "show me your friends and i'll tell you who you are." the subtle influences are pretty much impossible to prevent picking up. so, i'm cutting off any more 'interest' you may have about telling me or others about her or her situation. this is for your health, too.

[Bullwinkle925]

32. yes - you've validated what i've been thinking . . .

i'm really too tired to go on this way

[Midlodemocrat]

33. I've known people like that my whole life.

They thrive on drama. It's beyond annoying finally. Especially when they won't take any of your advice and continue down that self destructive train wreck path they're on.

I feel for you. It's not easy being the sounding board.

[applegrove]

34. Your last paragraph - you should go with that. That would be encouraging.