CDs predicted to go the way of vinyl

[CatWoman]

CANNES, France (Reuters) - Music downloads will render the ubiquitous compact disc all but obsolete in the next five years, yet half of all companies that begin selling digital songs online will fail by year-end, research warns.

By 2008, one third of music sales in the United States and nearly 20 percent in Europe will come in the form of downloads and streaming music over the Internet, building a multi-billion dollar business for the battered music industry, according to a new study by consultancy Forrester Research.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/24by7panews/content_objectid=13853672_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-CDs%2Dpredicted%2Dto%2Dgo%2Dthe%2Dway%2Dof%2Dvinyl-name_page.html

[AmericanErrorist]

1. Let's hope that the Music Industry

will be rendered obsolete too.

[Intelsucks]

2. This is bad news for people who actually care about sound quality

The compact disc doesn't sound all that great to begin with, and downloaded music files have even LESS resolution and MORE signal compression than CD's. So as technology moves forward, sound quality takes a back seat to convenience? I thought that the music was supposed to be the most important thing... Evidently not.

The new high-resolution digital formats (SACD and DVD-Audio) prove what a ruse the CD was right out of the starting gate. "Perfect sound forever" my a$$!!! ...Maybe to those who have never heard anything better to compare it with.

This is a sensitive subject with me.x(

[ConcernedCanuk]

8. "never heard anything better to compare it with." - hmmmm

.
.

I think the problem in comparison would be for those who haven't heard WORSE ??

I remember the vinyl, long before adjustable "balanced" arms, actually putting a penny on the needle to stop it from skipping (OMG, EH?)

I remember 8 tracks - how many remember untangling them things ?

I was a "hero" for actually having what we called a "reverberator" - a delay thingy that simulated stereo - -

Then cassettes - same thing, untangling, and the phrase "eats tapes" was born!

CD's are fine with me !!

[Intelsucks]

10. Signal compression gets abused on most CD mastering jobs.

They just keep making them louder, and louder, and LOUDER until all of the dynamic range is consumed while listening at just an average level. When there is a crescendo in the music, it can't go anywhere because all of the headroom has been swallowed up by the over-use of signal compression. Some CD's are done right in this respect, but I own many that I consider unlistenable.

Listen to SACD, and you will immediately understand what is wrong, and always has been wrong with the standard CD.

[Pobeka]

11. Is SACD overblown?

I ask because the high-end audio store I go to says so. They say -- and I have no reason to doubt it, that if you get a good CD player (in the $1000 range), that the standard CD format - 16 bits with a sample rate of 44,100 samples per second is basically at the limit of what humans can hear.

Have there been double-blind tests with new SACD vs good CD players to confirm or deny this?

[Intelsucks]

13. I would say that it is not overblown, but I'm a fanatic too.

I can hear a difference that is not subtle. There is a coherence and focus to the music that will make you go... "Oh, ok, I get it now". SACD can be addictive.

I have to be careful here... I'm listening to a $15,000 audio system at home, so obviously I'm pretty passionate about high quality sound. Not everyone is willing to go this far.

[Pobeka]

16. We listened to a CA system $2000 CD player and had the same reaction.

Same exact CD, same amp, same speakers, different CD player. Made all the difference.

I'm not up to paying $2000 for a CD player, but probably will one of these days.

The argument is there's a lot of electronics sitting in the DAC's, and you get what you pay for...

[Intelsucks]

19. I've got my eye on a Marantz SACD/CD player for $1000

it is class-A rated which means it sounds as good as anything you put through it (stands up to the very best in the world). Just a few years ago, getting any class-A rated piece of audio equipment for a grand was unheard of.

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AMARASA8260

[Pobeka]

22. I think my store had a few Marantz models last year when I was checking.

That looks interesting, thanks!

[beawr]

15. The High End Store Person is mistaken

You should see whether the high end store sells SACD equipment, Tube Equipment and Vinyl. If they ONLY stock the CD spectrum, then I would be suspicious.

The statement of your high end guy on what humans can hear uses the wrong type of measurement. Humans hear along a spectrum of Low to High. Sample rates have nothing to do with any limitations on human hearing. Also, even those pitches that we can't hear color the sounds that we do hear and lend them a greater sense of reality - overtones and undertones they're called. I can say that I think SACD sounds better than CDs and I have expensive equipment. It sounds better because it includes the data that may not be the actual notes, but are essential to giving the listener the whole picture, thus creating a space in which the sound event occured.

[Pobeka]

20. This guy stocks many types of equipment.

He sells to a small high-end market. No cheap stuff at all. Tube amps, vinyl, yadda yadda.

I don't have any reason at all to be suspicious of his motives.

I bought my stereo system from this store umm, gosh 13 years ago now.

[Karenina]

12. Me too!!!

Thanx for laying it out. I HATE CD's! They're MUCH too edgy and don't even get me started on MP3s. I've learned to live with the CDs, the advantage being they are NOT TAPE and tape (even DAT) deteriorates. A decade ago I pointed that out to an engineer at Sony who immediately declared me a double-reed nutcase until we did a little "blindfold" test. :evilgrin: Analog properly tweaked for digital dump works for me, but try getting these tech heads to listen to, much less HEAR what you're talking about!!! :argh:

[Selwynn]

14. This is not completely true

The debate over digital vs. analog is one thing, but you can encode and mp3 to have higher sound quality than what's on your CDs - the only reason it doesn't usually happen is because the files are larger.

[ButterflyBlood]

3. except vinyl isn't obsolete

i have a huge vinyl collection, and it's all from the 90s or now. there's a large vinyl section in the record store near campus of all recent stuff. just check out this site for modern day collectors: www.vivalavinyl.org

CDs will be going the way of 8-tracks, while vinyl will never be obsolete, due to rap DJs and indie/punk collectors.

[Intelsucks]

5. Amen, brother! Vinyl didn't die after the CD, it was actually re-born!

After the CD took over, the vinyl industry re-grouped and re-tooled. Today's vinyl pressings are far superior to those of the 80's, and so are the turntables. The vinyl pressings of the 80's are actually the WORST of any previous decade... No wonder people thought the CD sounded so great when it was introduced.

If you believe that CD sound quality trumps vinyl, then you've probably never heard a modern vinyl pressing on a decent modern turntable.

[ButterflyBlood]

6. exactly, comparing early recordings for vinyl to modern day ones for CD

is one of the best examples of apples to oranges. However, early recordings still sound best on vinyl. Something intended for an analog format will never sound right on a digital one.

[Selwynn]

18. NPR had a long piece on this

Which I think summed up the issue pretty well. And in my opinion, it cuts both ways ~

People who argued Vinyl sounds better than CDs when CDs first appeared are guilty of the same oversight - the quality of CD production has gotten much better over the years. The same argument is true against people who claim that CDs sound better than vinyls, then point to some decades old vinyl as proof. The quality and production of vinyls is also far better.

Being a person who listens to both new Vinyls and new CD's (I often collect vinyls of albums I particularly value) I can tell you this: there is practically no difference to an average listener. To a fanatic, maybe. But its a trade off - there are elements of sound reproduction that I feel are delivered in a far superior way on a good CD vs. a good vinyl. And there are elements that are delivered in a superior way on a good vinyl over a good CD. But seeing as how the difference is so unbelievably minor - assuming you are comparing equally good productions on both mediums - and considering how amazingly convenient CDs are (I haven't found too many portable vinyl players and I can't find one for my car, nor can I easily copy a vinyl for a buddy or make a mix vinyl record for a friend), anyone who things somehow vinyls are going to make some big comeback to the mainstream is smoking something..

[Intelsucks]

21. Most vinyl-heads gripe about the overuse of signal compression on CD's

n/t

[Intelsucks]

23. Vinyl will always be an aficionado's market. Joe six-pack will not

re-embrace it. CD's are too convenient.

[ButterflyBlood]

25. perhaps, but it will never be obsolete

so if you want your music primarily on one format, vinyl makes the most sense in the long run.

[Intelsucks]

26. I agree. I have 4X the number of records in my collection vs. CD's

I will not buy anything on CD unless I'm sure there is no vinyl available, domestic or import.

[OneBlueSky]

4. don't believe it for a minute . . .

there are lots of people who like something tangible for their money . . . there are others who don't like the sound degradation inherent in downloaded music . . . hell, there are still folks who buy their music on vinyl . . . CDs may lose market share, but there's a huge installed base of CD owners, and the format will be around for a long time . . .

[aquaman]

27. I agree with you..

I don't believe that the market will die, there will always be those like me who feel like burning a CD instead of getting the real thing is somehow just not right. I will continue to buy tons of Cd's.

[alwynsw]

7. I doubt it will die, but it will definitely change.

We even have cassettes and OMG! 8-tracks here at home. All get a listening from time to time. There's something like 4 or 5 thousand vinyl sides in the den. we even have - and listen to - a few hundred old 78's from the 30's and maybe earlier.

Nothing in the recording industry ever dies completely. Pack rats like me refuse to let it happen. It does sometimes move to swap meets and such.

[Intelsucks]

28. I love swap meets, antique shops, and record conventions.

:D

[TeeYiYi]

9. A third of my ebay purchases . . .

. . are CDs that I forgot to buy before they went out of print.

I don't see how CDs can go away. If that happened, people would just make their own CDs and sell them on ebay. If there's a market on ebay, then there is a market period.

TYY

[DS1]

17. I'll buy an iPod when it can get internet radio ~anywhere~

The whole world will be connected wirelessly some day, but until then I'll stick to my CDs.

[ConcernedCanuk]

24. "The whole world will be connected wirelessly some day" - hmmm

.
.

Maybe so maybe not - but definitely

NOT if Junior stays on the throne !!

[PVnRT]

29. Dammit, no!

I hate downloading music - half the time, the quality sucks, it takes forever....gah.

[jmowreader]

30. How it will all come out: My opinion

There is a reason for all of the formats to co-exist, except for tape. Tape is too fragile.

MP3--portable audio players. It's the only way to go. An iPod is really small and holds a huge amount of tunage; you will *not* get the full benefit of 24/96 5.1 stereo out of a set of speakers the size of a dime, so fidelity isn't all that big an issue so long as it sounds decent. Also good for cheaper car stereos, especially on cars with performance exhaust systems. Why spend $2000 on something the headers are going to drown out?

CD--decent car and home stereos. It's not ultra-expensive, it doesn't sound ultra-expensive, it's a good format. My old boss used to go on and on about DVD killing CD...CD is still a good format for a lot of things.

SACD/DVD-Audio--for cutting-edge systems. SACD for regular stereos, DVD-Audio for surround-sound rigs.

Vinyl: if you have a tube system, vinyl is the format for you. Good vinyl played with a good cartridge on a good turntable, then fed through good amplification to good speakers, is very good indeed. Cheap vinyl on a cheap system? Where's my CD player?

If I had to choose one format for extinction it wouldn't be CD--it would be DVD-Audio. Sony's behind SACD, which almost guarantees its success. (Before anyone says Betamax, consider that Beta was, until digital took over, the preeminent format for electronic news gathering. And Sony almost never misfires.)

[Intelsucks]

31. Great post. SACD is multi-channel capable though.

There are many hybrid discs available.

Pink Floyd - DSOTM is actually a tri-brid disc (is there such a word? I doubt it.) It has a CD layer, SACD stereo layer, and SACD 5.1 layer.

The Police - greatest hits is another example.


I hope you are right about DVD-A, but I'm concerned about it's easy integration with home theater. There are far more titles available on SACD than DVD-A, so that's a good sign. Maybe you're right... It's all about Sony.

[jmowreader]

32. It's multichannel *capable*--that's the catch

A SACD player can output to a stereo. The only outputs on a DVD-Audio player are 5.1. Hence, SACD automatically has a broader audience. 5.1 surround sound is great, but I don't want to be forced to go to it before I'm ready, and SACD doesn't require it.

I've seen the Pioneer hybrid SACD/DVD-A DVD players, but don't know how they interface to the rest of the system.

Plus SACD is supposed to be far easier to master for than DVD-Audio. That in itself might seal the deal.

My next DVD player's going to be the Sony 400-disc changer with progressive scan (which is far more elegant than having all the DVD cases on the shelf--just load the discs and stash the boxes somewhere safe), and it has SACD, so that's how I'll go.

[Intelsucks]

33. I'm a stereo person, and don't really care about multi-channel music

DVD-A is multi-channel only? I didn't realize that. Now I know made the right choice with SACD.