Want Cheap Mac, but need recommendations

[NuttyFluffers]

my folks (also known as parents) want a laptop. but they don't want to spend much money. so they are leaning towards cheap Wintel stuff. y'know, packaged bundles of $700 or less. they'd dig a mac too, but they're still of the mindset that all macs are primo priced. my sibling, busy with work and a family of his own, has pretty much given up on doing IT support for them, and i'd likely be stuck with the work. having done IT for easily more than 10 years with Wintel stuff growing up with them i'm absolute done with it. i got a mac and haven't looked back. but i can't abandon them to the horrors of Wintel clones and bad customer service, so i'm desperate to persuade them to get a cheap notebook.

so, i need a machine that's good for email, browsing, pictures, word processing, and that's about it. easy, i know. pretty much any machine since 2000 should fit the bill. i'm just torn whether i should bother getting them a machine that runs solid on Panther or Tiger. so i'm debating on either getting a powerbook G3/G4 or ibook G3/G4. if i can get a machine that can run Tiger comfortably with a minimal RAM upgrade and has a combo/super drive i'm cool with it. but i'd prefer it not go over $500, because at that point it'd be pretty hard to dissuade them from just getting a $600 Wintel laptop at the nearest Costco.

should i bother with G4s at all? powerbook over ibook? they'd appreciate simplicity and comfort over upgradeability. oh, and they are most easily wowed by speed, so fast loading emails and browsing is a plus.

been scanning LoweEndMac and Shopping.com and finding a few good prices. used G3s for around $250, a few G4s around $400. i'm wondering if i should just get them the G3, throw in some extra RAM and run with it. are there things i should watch for? issues about not getting OS discs? original software bundles wiped off? good stores?

edit: hard drive space simply isn't an issue. teaching them to use external drives, is a snap, and i already gave them one (200GB). RAM, CPU compatibility w/ OS might be an issue though. wondering if i should bother going G4 so they can use Leopard coming up.

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1. G4 is significantly faster for some applications,

because of the "velocity engine" built into the G4 chip. But the difference is only truly apparent in processor-intensive tasks such as rendering, video or audio processing, graphics work, etc. For simpler tasks such as business correspondence, spreadsheets, e-mail, etc., the velocity engine is of no use. Even so, G4 is faster then G3. I am not a fan of the Mac laptops because the screens don't seem bright enough to me. Laptops are only good for people on business trips or for students who insist on sitting in crowded coffeehouses to do their homework. Frankly I would look for an eMac G4, eMac is a great machine that is now discontinued so you could probably find one cheap. And with iLife and iWork it's probably all they will need.

[NuttyFluffers]

2. thanks! they want it for travel too

which is kinda difficult with an eMac. storing it in the overhead compartment and all... ;) they'd also perhaps want wifi and bluetooth (lord help them... i'm gonna get calls for help i'm sure), which should be in quite a few ibooks/powerboooks, right?

i think your explanation might have pushed me towards getting G3, as the extra power isn't that important.

question: are used copies of Panther relatively easy to get/buy?

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3. I would only get a G3 if it is up around the 700-800 Mhz range

I just now looked at my old iMac G3 400 Mhz and it does seem pretty slow. I would still recommend a G4 if possible. The best operating system for this range of Macs is 10.3.9. You can download the 10.3.9 updater from Apple's web site which will probably work with the Mac you buy. It depends on what system is already on it. You may not have to buy the OS, if the one that comes on the Mac is upgradable to 10.3.9 with the updater you can download from Apple's web site.
When I upgraded my old iMac to 10.3.9 it seemed to breathe new life into it. I would not recommend 10.4 for any of these older Macs, it is far too demanding of a system. Stick with 10.3.9 and don't upgrade to QuickTime above 6.5.2. There are significant problems with QuickTime 7 on these older machines with 10.3.x. I had to downgrade my QuickTime back to 6.5.2.
I would still recommend that you go to an Apple store and take a look at the laptops just to see what they look like. I have always thought the screens on the Mac laptops were not bright enough or clear enough. I have seen PC laptops that had much larger, brighter screens. I would never buy a PC or Windows machine of any type, ever. But so far I have never bought a laptop from Apple because of the dim screens.

[NuttyFluffers]

4. hmm, i'll try to do that!

i've seen old powerbooks and a few ibooks, and the ibooks did seem a shade dimmer. but i don't know how much i can get away with for my folks. considering their age this might be a problem. i'll see if any apple stores around here carry old ibooks for them to test run.

a lot of the stuff i'm finding -- i'm leaning towards an ibook G3 500Ghz (or more) 128 (or 320) MB CD -- tends to have 10.3.9 already installed, but rarely 10.3.x install CDs. that's kind of annoying, because i'm used to Wintel stuff crashing all the time i always like an emergency install CD. i'm thinking i might have to show up, bring an external CD-RW, and write a spare. or, god forbid, slave a machine with a writer, copy the OS over, and burn from there... or i could just ask one from apple. but i haven't ever fought with them over install CDs yet, and i don't look forward to having another round against tech support (Wintel memories, you see).