I've had it.

[Deep13]

I'm posting here because it is where I spend the most of my time and it is where the most people know me.

I give up. I give up on politics, the Constitution, this country and especially the Democratic Party. I'm living now for me and mine.

In 2000 this country turned down its best to side with its worst. (Yes, I know. I said "country" not voters.) Since then everything that could go wrong did go wrong. In 2004 we had a chance to get rid of that asshole. It was billed as the most important election of our lifetime. My wife and I donated $7000 and much of our time and effort. Had we done nothing we would have more friends than we do and a new kitchen. Our candidate sucked and the race he ran sucked. In 2006 we donated $14,000 and a lot of time. We thought we won. Since the beginning of the year, we have learned that we did not.

It should be clear to everyone now that democracy in America is dead. Not sick. Not in need of reform. Dead. The corporate media and other wealthy interests pick the candidates and even if our choice among those candidates wins, we still lose. The events of the past two days should make that absolutely clear. Congress was not complying with what Bush wanted, so he ordered them to do so. Congress, the branch of government given primacy by the Constitution, was treated like disobedient child and responded by acting like one.

There is no seperation of powers anymore. The executive is slowly accumulating absolute power and is nearly there. And the American public could not give a shit.

At the 2004 election night, a friend of mine talked about watching the results come in in 1972. Jesus Christ. This guy has been waiting for reality to dawn on this country for 30 years. I am not going to do that. If people do not want to do what is in their best interest anyway, there's nothing I can do to slap any sense into them. Will Pitt wrote that he will keep fighting even though he will not see victory in his lifetime. I am simply unwilling to do that. If victory is not possible, and it is not, there is no point continuing to fight. Besides, I really have no intention of landing in a concentration camp in the next few years. I will still post here because I enjoy it. I will still vote Democrat. The money and the personal resources, on the other hand, will not be forth-coming.

Hail Caesar.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

1. Take a break, then come back to the fight...

Rome wasn't torn down in a day, either... :hug:

[Deep13]

2. No.

It is not exhaustion talking. I just don't believe in hitting my head on the wall forever.

Rome was burned down in a day.

[Deja Q]

3. Hmmm, would the neocons invite people to their side?

Do they have plans for people?

Allow time to switch sides?

Or are we all destined for the same fate regardless?

And why are we thinking all this tinfoil shit in the first place?

[Deep13]

6. You know, I've had all those discussions already.

I have enough sense of history to know that calling my fears "tinfoil hat" is extremely naive.

[Deja Q]

9. I've got a lot of fears too. No sense in letting them cloud my judgment.

Gotta go on in life and enjoy what we can and find ways to enjoy it.

Something bad may happen. Or maybe something different that want to perceive as bad.

I don't know. None of us does. Thinking into things too much does nobody any good. I think it's better to enjoy life (rather along your viewpoint) until something concrete happens. Right now it's just guesswork on the part of many, and the many can be wrong.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

12. I'm sorry you're surrendering.

I'm not.

[Deep13]

13. You have to do what you think is best.

If the American public does not care about the Constitution, then we have already lost. They don't care.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

17. Or maybe they've mostly surrendered.

If I follow the path of the majority because I don't stand a chance of winning; then I'm no better than the flakes that allowed this bill to pass today.

We elected these Democrats into office; but having the majority does not mean that we can afford to relax and let our reps speak for us. More than ever, we have a responsibility to register our opinions with our reps...especially on legislation such as this. We HIRED these people, and now it's up to us to tell them how to vote. And more importantly, we've got to get all of our own calling their reps and spreading the word to their friends. We have to make people care...

[MrScorpio]

4. I hear the frustration

But giving up is not there answer... That's what they're counting on,

Keep stickin' it to the man, that's what make my day... Whether he can feel it right now or not.

Remember, huge dam breaks always start as tiny cracks

[Deep13]

8. It's not frustration.

I just don't want to waste my life persuing something I can never have. The public does not care what happens to the Constitution. They have no historical perspective. They take freedom and rule of law for granted thinking that the label of "American" is some kind of magic protection. They do not realize that the Constitution is not idiot-proof. They do not realize how rare a thing it is to have personal freedom and prosperity in the world.

[alarimer]

5. I agree

It's so hard when even our side won't fight for us. The sheep will get what they deserve and I will just laugh at them.

[Tyler Durden]

7. I know exactly how you feel.

I was talking to another Veteran tonight, and we are both of the opinion that the Pig Bush or his successor will pull the "NOVEMBER SURPRISE" in 2008, and the rePukes will try and rule forever.

Just our opinion.

[Deep13]

10. I don't expect Bush to step down.

He will say that the electors have not sent a president-elect that he can hand over power to.

[Omphaloskepsis]

16. If you think this way it is best to step away...

Turn the computer off and go read a book in the park. You are seriously too wound up in this shit.

And, posting on a fringe website isn't really accomplishing anything. Go out and hold a sign on a overpass.

[Tyler Durden]

18. THIS is a FRINGE WEBSITE??

Truly, you haven't been around much.

[Deep13]

23. "...isn't really accomplishing anything...."

The only thing I'm try to accomplish is getting it off my chest.

[Tyler Durden]

19. All he needs is a hurricaine, a flood, or a couple of good sized riots...

...and according to the UNDISPUTED BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY laws and executive orders, he can do whatever he wants.

My opinion? He will.

[CJCRANE]

30. The ironic thing is

that with every disaster Bush loses approval points but gains in power.

Buy 2008 he should be at a zero approval rating and 100% control of everything.

[Tyler Durden]

31. Then it won't matter anymore, will it?

As long as he leaves the REAL gun nuts alone (not the regular law abiding ones), then no one will be the wiser.

[Droopy]

11. Send the original post to the Dem candidates

Your representatives in Congress and the DNC. It can't hurt. Might make you feel a little better, anyway, to tell them off. You might get their attention by being a big donor who won't send them money anymore.

[Deep13]

15. Yeah, maybe. I'll think on it.

It is not like I have not been making myself pretty clear about the need to defend the primacy of the legislature.

[vixengrl]

14. Live for you and yours--it's just the way to go.

And don't put more money into this machine we call our political system if it isn't taking you where you want to go, and if you can find something better for it--it isn't taking many of us where we want to go.

And maybe that's why we're here (on the internets). Because maybe this is our printing press, where our little revolution might take place. Among people who get it. The "fight" might be simply made of small and even sometimes futile gestures that just happen to touch the right people. The victory might be over each sleeping brain finally catching on and saying--"Damn, that was why our founders bothered, that's why they did it this way, and not some other way, that's why we call it democracy, and not theocracy or autocracy," and maybe it will be slow. And maybe even on "our" side too many sleepers exist, and are lulled by the dreams of "supporting" this or "war against" that, not ever realizing they're failing people who are counting on them to just wake up.

But I want to believe in waking dreams of democracy. Wide awake people puling levers and knowing they are making real decisions. Wide awake congresspeople acting on the real dreams of the people they represent--and not their nightmares. I think there's a rude awakening out there for many.

And as for Caesar--we will shake him, or worse days endure (and twelve damn Caesars were endured, and then some...but what lasts forever?)

[Fire Walk With Me]

20. Reality won't dawn upon this country until its people cause it to happen.

If you give up, at all, BushCo will eagerly fill that gap, until nothing else remains.

Die freiheit ist nicht mehr frei. -Laibach

[Deep13]

24. There are those who say that the Confederacy never surrended...

...because Davis never did. They may be right, but considering how thoroughly the Confederacy (not just the army) was crushed by Federal forces it would have been a pretty superfluous gesture anyway.

The Neocons have won. Period. I knew this in 2004 but when '06 came I reserved some hope for a Congressional victory that would at least halt their advance. We got the electoral victory, but it turned out to be pretty meaningless in the end. If Congress will pass an unconstitutional bill just because Bush told them to, then they are irrelevant as an institution just like the Roman Senate after the fall of the republic. They control all mass media and, therefore, they control what the puplic thinks. How can there be change when they can program at least the majority of the public not to want it?

[Fire Walk With Me]

26. Whenever the pendulum swings one way, it must then swing the other.

That's a secret of the dichotomy box we live in. Energy always equalizes and settles to the center. Rest assured that something will come up, just as disco bred punk. Change is a constant. Just try to keep things from changing and you'll see.

However, it's in our hands.

[Deep13]

27. I do not believe the pendulum theory is supported by history.

Empires and Kingdoms come and go, but the rich always rule. When they don't, they are replaced by newly enriched who ultimately are as conservative as the old rich.

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. That's the part that's in our hands.

Or as you say, they could drive this empire into ruin as well. Parasites usually leave corpses.

[MockSwede]

21. Worcester?

MA? Say hello to all the relatives there!

[S n o w b a l l]

22. Cynical much?

Yeah, me too...I totally feel ya.

[Chan790]

25. Fear not...

if things don't change...the proletariat revolt with be quick, bloody, and soon. Kidding...sort of.

Capitalism is pushing, because as a system it is as dysfunctional, unsustainable and doomed as communism. It's in death pangs. Of course, the corporatist elements have to play dirty pool at this point...they're staring death in the face. (Figuratively, although I think it may be literal as well for some.)

The public will give a shit...remember a person may be smart, but people (as in the herd) are always dumb until the last second. The public will care when they put two (cause) and two (consequence) together to get four (George W. Bush, GWOT, Corporatist control of our nation, media consolidation, voting fraud.)

You're just seeing the beginning of the cancer which will kill the consumerist culture. If you look at political history from the dawn of (wo)mankind...this happens from time to time and the old paradigm (capitalism) is replaced by a new paradigm(???).

Buck up, and stick to the fight. There are other ways to fight than with money, get the kitchen renovation instead of giving money this time and support the cause in some other way. Having a nice kitchen will make you feel better, both as an island of calm and as proof you don't have to choose between happy and in-the-fight.

[billyskank]

28. I hate to say it, but I believe you're right

Maybe democracy did once work, I don't know, but I am fairly sure that the ruling class have well engineered things today so that nothing we do ultimately upsets the balance. After all, do we have any credible candidate that would actually upset the Order? Not really. Any such candidate is at best marginalised and ridiculed, or worse...

[CJCRANE]

32. Ok everyone, get back on the rollercoaster.

Democrats Introduce Censure Aimed at Bush, Cheney and Gonzoles

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2943827

On edit: Sorry false alarm. Here's the relevant quote: "Neither the House nor the Senate is expected to take up the resolutions".

[gmoney]

33. Agreed, for the most part...

Before I got "political" I was a pretty happy guy more or less enjoying my little life. Started actually paying attention to politics around the time the 2000 election was stolen, and that's when the serious depression set in, my career stagnated, my personal life ground to a halt, and I started spending all my time and too much of my money on political stuff. Went all out for that putz Kerry because he would at least be better than 4 more years, but when he folded without even challenging the theft of Ohio AND with millions unspent in the campaign war chest (even though they were beating on ME for dollars right up to election day), I just gave up being serious about it. For the past couple of years, I've been a bemused onlooker, watching the world go to hell, thankful that I don't have kids who will have to clean up this mess. But now, it's almost impossible to watch, let alone pretend to participate in.

Thankfully over the past couple years I've become absorbed in my new avocation, which has its own politics and frustrations, but which at least yields results and if I put time and energy into it, I can be pretty well assured that something will come of it.

Now when I get calls from the democrats trying to raise money, I have to just laugh and hang up the phone. "You have the ball, now run with it, or shut up."

I know it's just a matter of time before the economy collapses or the climate fights back or some medical condition will clobber me because I can't pay to get treatment. I know that if things get bad enough, I'll call it quits. But you're right, life's too short to fight a losing battle against an beatable opponent with unlimited resources. George W. Bush has been president for 15% of my life... I feel bad for those whose percentages are closer to 30 or 40 or 50 percent, or more.