Is it ever ethical to be two faced?

[Nikia]

I used to think that it was always unethical, but now I am starting to see things the other way. I have done in this in several instances and have been observing a number of people doing it and justifying it for what seem like good reasons, yet I have always held that it is wrong. I am experiencing a moral crisis in this.
What do you think? Do you ever think that it is ever ethical to be nice to someone's face while bashing them behind their back?

[Critters2]

1. Moral or not, my experience is that it always comes back

to bite you in the ass. Always.

[pitohui]

25. then you're not very good at it

in my experience it almost never comes back to bite me in the ass

"bash" and "vent" w. people you trust -- if you don't know who you can trust, okay, you have bigger problems

but everyone has the right to "bash" and "vent" to a trusted love one -- and if it does come back to bite you GREAT, you have just learned that someone you thought trust worthy needs to go on the
shit list instead, information well worth having

[TZ]

2. If you are caught at it it will ruin you

I had a case where several people were two-faced to me personally in a professional arena and even though I ended up leaving the place I made SURE that everybody knew who were two faced and one of the worst actually ended up being forced out right after I left.
I can't and won't do it. Just isn't me.

[AlCzervik]

3. no imo never.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

4. Ethical? Who knows. Reasonable or smart? Sometimes.

I usually am. I don't enjoy being disliked, so I generally change my behavior and attitude depending on who I'm with to avoid conflict over stuff I don't really care about.

[Nikia]

8. I generally am generally non confrontational too

There are some things that do require confrontation. There are other things that people are so adement and defensive about though that confrontation wouldn't seem to lead to anything positive. In other cases, I am talking to people and almost cannot help but agree with them when they are criticizing someone.
In both cases, it is about being agreeable to others.

[twenty4blackbirds]

5. bad ethics, sure

But sometimes I'm in a difficult situation; I can't talk to the person face-to-face because they won't take the criticism well.

Maybe it's what we/they all say "It's not me, it's them!" when in fact the two-facer is just too cowardly to take responsibility of their beliefs.

I guess it's me. I'm cowardly.

[Nikia]

6. Some people do react badly

I guess that is the issue. It may be cowardly. On the otherhand, sometimes it is necessary to have a good working relationship with a person and criticizing them openly may result in the destruction of that relationship. Some people hold grudges and it seems like a good idea to avoid that if possible.

[twenty4blackbirds]

17. I'm slow to react to current events.

I'd like to be upfront and honest. It would make my soul happy. It would probably make my life more difficult.

Howsomever, I'm probably like most other people who don't want to rock the boat when there isn't much to gain from it. Plus I'm not trained in giving constructive criticism. Plus sometimes my opinions need time to mature.

[LeftyMom]

7. For personal gain, yeah

But if it's truly done purely to benefit somebody who can't help themselves, I feel that's sometimes perfectly acceptable.

[Nikia]

13. Sometimes people are stuck in their ways

And they seem to be very unhappy when people criticize those ways. Sometimes it seems kinder to them if I am not criticizing them about those things to their face.

[LeftyMom]

14. If it's only conflict aviodance, I'd come out and say it

that shit's ALWAYS, every last single time, come back and bit me in the ass in the end.

[Haole Girl]

9. It depends

Growing up, because my parents' had a very nasty divorce, I had to pretend a lot. Once, my Mother caught me (playing both sides... for lack of a better way to describe it) She snapped, and said,"Well, aren't you the perfect Chameleon!" It blew me away. I thought I was doing a good job at keeping both of them happy -- and it wasn't easy. So, yeah, sometimes it's necessary. As dishonest as it may seem (on the surface).

[Nikia]

11. I grew up that way too

It was tough and I always felt weird about it. In adulthood, I felt that sort of thing was all behind me. I am finding myself in those types of situations though in adult life, espeically in the workplace.

[Haole Girl]

12. Me too

We just do the best we can... and hope for the best! :hug:

[XemaSab]

10. Depends on the severity of the situations and who the person is to you

With colleagues, yes; with friends never; with SO's rarely.

There's a fine line between fault picking and open bashing, though.

And on edit: with colleagues there are colleagues who are also friends, and colleagues who aren't. Judge accordingly.

[Fire Walk With Me]

15. Are you purposely causing damage to another, or being pathological?

[Shine]

16. Nope, what goes around, comes around....

it's pretty simple really: treat others the way YOU want to be treated. :hi:

my two cents.

[Nikia]

18. But what if person X is happier believing that at least a few people at work like him

Personally, I have mixed feelings about him. There are several things that I don't like about him, some of which make my job harder. I don't wish bad things upon him but I am frustrated.
Person Y appears to be person X's best friend at work but has some very negative things to say about him. Person Y believes that he is being kind to person X by treating him like his friend when other people won't.
Person X seems very set in his ways and is very defensive about some of these ways which annoy people.
I suppose that it is not kind to go around bashing person X even though I am frustrated and almost everyone seems to agree with me.
If I were in that situation, I am not sure what I would want if they really all disliked me. I used to think that I would want to know, but at this point in life, I am not sure.

[Shine]

20. The question isn't so much what or how other people are acting

but how YOU are acting. Are you in alignment with your own personal integrity...or are you acting out of alignment with that integrity by saying one thing and doing another? Only YOU can decide for sure.

You may not and won't "like" everyone you come across in your life, but they all still deserve a basic level of respect, imo.

[twenty4blackbirds]

22. snap!

Say, I'm in a similar situation. Although mine is probably better: myX is a nice person but her work practice drives me nuts! the same work practice also drives many other colleagues nuts. At times like that, it would be kinder on my part to let her know when her specific behaviour is very unhelpful to the team.

My colleagues and I are finding that our manager's behaviour is also nutty-driving. But. I cannot 'manage upwards' on my manager, worse luck.

Maybe if you could separate the person from their behaviour, and let them know you like them but not their behaviour? Easier said than done, as always.

[Nikia]

26. I think that yor are right about focusing on the behavior, not the person

It probably is unecessary to lable some with unkind names or recount past examples of behavior if I am venting about behavior of a colleague or explaining a situation which involves a failure on his/her part.
The person who I am thinking about has been confronted about many of the behaviors. His boss is a mean bully who doesn't understand anything when his boss brings those up. His collegues or subortinates are treated to an angry defensive arguement in which the behavior is denied or justified and they don't understand anything and are guilty of the same behavior or some other behavior deemed worse.
Actually this person is not the only person at issue, just the most extreme example. In fact, I think that we are at a critical point in the company's development. Some people may be instrumental in the company's success while others may be detriments to it. There is a lot of blaming going on when there are set backs in some areas. Thinking about this more, it probably would be best to stay out of the worst of this and as you said, focus on the behavior, not the person. Maybe it is possible, for the person (or people) to be approached in better ways but I'll have to feel this one out.

[Lochloosa]

19. Something I have learned...

If you ask someone to lie for you then it's ok for someone to lie to you.

[Inchworm]

21. Ain't that like asking...

Is it sometimes ethical to be unethical?

:hi:

[skygazer]

23. Why do you need to bash them?

That's my question. There's nothing wrong with treating a person nicely even if you don't care for them - that's just a matter of having manners or understanding that a work situation means dealing with people you might not like.

But I see no reason to bash anyone behind their back. What is the purpose? You can dislike someone without actively putting them down.

I have a rule - never say anything to anyone about anybody else unless I'd be comfortable saying it to that person's face. It's a good rule - keeps me from getting tangled up in uncomfortable situations.

[pitohui]

24. it's almost always nicer than plain out bashing them to their face

but hey i'm from the south so i WOULD think that

:shrug:

my attitude is -- personally yeah i'd much rather be dissed behind my back than to my face, just because you dislike me, you don't have to run over and let me know about it -- i already know i'm an acquired taste

most times adults are not going to change and if you dislike someone "airing your differences" causes nothing but bad feelings with no upside

being two faced is fine in that circumstance

[Ellen Forradalom]

27. Can't answer that without knowing about the specific situation

So I can know what you mean here by two-faced.

[Nikia]

28. I have alluded to it in other parts of the post, but here's the gist:

This is a workplace situation. There are actually multiple situations since the company (small manufacturer that is competing against large companies) is going through a vital time in its development with a lot of blaming going on when there are setbacks. The most important situation to me though involves a person who I work closely with who greatly frustrates me as well as other people. It is important that I have a good working relationship with this person. In my position, it is actually important that I have at least a decent working relationship with everyone, but with this person and a couple of others, it is vital. This person has gotten angry and defenisive in the fairly recent past when criticized and is fairly set in his ways. This person acts in many ways that I'd consider "assholish" but it might be that he has AS or some other type of problem that makes it difficult for him to relate to other people. His problems relating to other people is not my main criticism of him or what he has been openly criticized in the past though. He acts like my friend, as much as it seems possible for him, but it may be possible that he is making an effort in order to have a good working relationship with me.