Could we have a list of gender-specific designators that *aren't* offensive to anybody?

[Orrex]

I think that the matter of gender-descriptors is greatly complicated by people who are entirely happy to be described by terms that one might find offensive or derrogatory. How do we avoid this conundrum?

Is it better to tell someone which designator should offend them or to tell them which designator should not?

I propose that henceforth we refer to a given person only as an X or a Y, in deference to the distinguishing chromosome.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. man/women or female/male is generally not considered offensive

[MissMillie]

2. I've never had a problem with any of those

and he and she work pretty well too

[Orrex]

3. What do you know? You ruined DU!

IMO a pure male/female designator reduces the person to a testicle or an ovary. And in some contexts I find male/female to be vaguely condescending.

"I was in line at the grocery store and the female in front of me won $1000 on an instant lottery ticket."

Sure, one could say "the person in front of me," but that only works if we're willing to eliminate all concept of gender, which seems to me more than a little unrealistic.

Even man/woman can sound a trifle sterile when speaking of people with whom one is more casually acquainted.

So what's the balance? I know a substantial number of women who are entirely content to be referred to as chicks or even girls, in appropriate context. In other contexts, not so much.

Perhaps the problem is that it's difficult if not impossible to declare a certain designator acceptable or unacceptable because its offensiveness is based overwhelmingly on context.

How to resolve this?

[DarkTirade]

24. And there are people who would be offended by your suggestion

that only the genitalia make the person and gender. :)

[Orrex]

25. LOL!

Good thing I wasn't quite serious, then!

:rofl:

[BarenakedLady]

4. don't you mean womyn?

I mean do we really want to have the word men in our term?

:sarcasm:

[Orrex]

5. Well, you're made out of our ribs, and all that

Know your place, woMAN!

(also :sarcasm:)

[BarenakedLady]

6. Don't get uppity!

I am woMYN hear me roar!


*meow*

[EstimatedProphet]

7. Unfortunately there's a lot of people that find those offensive

As to whether it's the word, or what it represents, that is offensive to them I don't know.

[Pithlet]

12. I think just about any word or phrase can be made offensive given the right context.

I think that's why generally speaking people are more thin skinned on the internet, because the context isn't always as clear as it is in RL. I don't think male or female is offensive on its own, but I've heard those terms used in a way where it was obvious the person using them meant offense, so in that particular instance they were offensive. That's why asking for a particular list of words that are okay to use is practically useless.

[Orrex]

13. "That's why asking for a particular list of words... is practically useless. "

Well, yeah. I think that was kind of the point.

Again I concur that context is everything, so a strict list of okay/not-okay words is pointless.

[Pithlet]

17. I may have misinterpreted the point of your OP.

It seemed as though your point was too many people are just too sensitive and easily offended, which makes it hard for anyone to know what words to use. I thought it was in response to the chick thread. A lot of people got upset in that thread, but I thought the OP made the context quite clear.

[EstimatedProphet]

14. That, and the lack of emotional cues

Communication is only something like 30% verbal, and the rest comes from emotional/psychological cues, like posture, tone of voice, expression, etc. Since we don't have those to go by on the internet, we unconsciously fill in the blanks by interpretation, often using our own feelings at the time. So, in that case a list of words is useless - under some cases, even 'hello' becomes a threat.

[Orrex]

19. Well *HELLO* to you, too!

:evilgrin:

(smileys can go a long way toward filling in the blanks left by otherwise purely verbal communication!)

[EstimatedProphet]

20. Yeah, they can

:evilgrin:

[Orrex]

21. Nice!

:rofl:

[Deep13]

27. Don't pigeon-hole me!

I am not just a set of reproductive parts! I'm an engendered human. No, wait, that implies only humans have value. I am an engendered crew member of spaceship Earth. Of course there may be space aliens who may or may not be engendered. I am an engendered citizen of the universe, though I do not mean to dimish the value of co-universal siblings who reproduce with spores.

All right, dammit, I'm a big, fat man sitting at a cheap desk. Happy now?
:evilgrin:

[Ellen Forradalom]

8. Here in CA "dude' is the formal mode of address for everyone

and their dog.

[Pithlet]

9. I don't understand why it's so difficult.

There is always the chance that someone may be offended by something one says, no matter how careful that person is in choosing their words. Personally, I find that if I'm careful I'm usually okay. If someone is offended anyway, I apologize and move on. I think making a big deal about the fact that some people are offended by some things is more annoying than offensive words. Yes, some people are thin skinned. That's life. But, some people are insensitive assholes and I don't think they should be protected from the consequences of their words, either. So someone thinks a particular word is offensive and you don't. Maybe their perspective is different than yours. Or maybe they are a thin skinned ninny. Who cares? I don't see how making a big deal out of the fact they're offended is any different than getting offended in the first place.

[Gormy Cuss]

10. Good idea. Let's add racially/ethnically- specific designators too.

Those are greatly complicated too. How is anyone supposed to know that some people object to terms like "Oriental" or "Negro"? There are so many harmless ethnically-specific descriptors that I can't use anymore because someone will take offense. I feel gypped.

[Orrex]

11. Hardy har har

But I think that you and I are making the same point, after a fashion: Context is everything.

So the question isn't "how do I know which word is offensive?" but rather "how do I discern from context when a word is and is not offensive?"

[Gormy Cuss]

22. The "chick" thread was about context, although it's hard to see that by scanning the responses.

There were several of us who didn't contend that "chick" was always offensive but questioned the gender-specific labeling (and color stereotyping) of the school booster tees specifically, but the thread devolved rather quickly into a carryover food fight among some of the same people who had sparred in the porn threads, posts by women who wrote "I don't mind being called a chick" and implied "neither should you," and others who say "Sheesh. Can't I say anything anymore"? The same pattern of response shows up with language usage threads for terms that are mild racial or ethnic epithets or slang terms for GLBT people. It's fascinating to me that the pattern is the same as the one I observed in the 1970s with discussions of whether there was any need for the ERA.

Back to your question: some words are deemed offensive in any context and those are the easier subset. With the other words generational, cultural, or other situational differences may be important to understanding the offensiveness. When someone says they find the term offensive and articulates why, then I know. It seems to me that common courtesy dictates that I should listen to the argument before dismissing the offended one as too sensitive or hysterical or any of the other charges thrown and it's usually no skin off my nose to substitute a different term when the situation warrants it.

[redqueen]

15. Oy

I wear shoes, rather than hope someone will carpet the ground for me.

[TZ]

16. but what about

people that are XXY or who are XO or XYY or XXX? How does one refer to either hermaphrodites or people who are almost genderless?:evilgrin: :rofl:

Okay- sorry I know this is a serious thread but I couldn't resist..and truly those types do exist but they are really rare...

[Orrex]

18. Years ago I knew someone who had Turner Syndrome, so you're correct

But she had an X chromosome, so she'd be an X. Someone who was XXY would be a Y.
on edit: I'm basically just talking out of my ass there, rather than issuing some sort of decree...

Seriously, I'm not familiar with the genotypes of true human hermaphrodites--is there a standard XX or XY or something else?

[TZ]

23. I believe that the XXY and XYY

are the hermaphrodites although not sexually functional. What they do have is the traits of both.
There are some very sad stories about parents having to "choose" a gender for these children. IE cut off the penis and raise the child as a girl (with hormones) or keep the penis give additional male hormones and raise as a boy. Some of these children are never told they have these disorders either which can lead to severe psychological damage when they inevitably find out (they are ALL sterile)

[AngryAmish]

26. stewardess and steward

[One_Life_To_Give]

28. Statistically Implausible

In a world of over 6 Billion people. You would be hard pressed to find a single word in any language that was not offensive to someone. Never mind restricting it to words denoting gender .