So, the wife and I agreed to have an open marriage

[City of Mills]

...well this should be interesting - we don't want to live together, but we don't want to be divorced and we both have needs. So we agreed to see other people and deal with the big 'D' if/when the need arises.

Can this type of arrangement work?

[MrScorpio]

1. It might work as long as you don't shove it in each other's faces

Check out the answers of this off the cuff question that I posed earlier


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=6885487&mesg_id=6885487

[City of Mills]

6. Ah - thanks for the link Mr. Scorpio!

Interesting read...I wish I had seen it, I prob. would've responded. An incident between her and a good friend of us has prompted this thinking, as the cat is now more or less out of the bag.

[bicentennial_baby]

2. Doubtful, but, maybe you're lucky...

:shrug:

[The Straight Story]

3. So it's not like a swinger type thing then?

Swinging relationships can work :evilgrin: but I can say I would have my doubts, serious ones, if the big D is in the background and there are other issues.

[City of Mills]

32. It's more like

what someone here said, an extremely amicable breakup...but we still want to stay in each other's lives, we really get along great.

[jpgray]

4. If it's a "I want to look around but would enjoy an eternal plan B," then no

[SPKrazy]

5. I'd guess No

but then i don't know you or your wife

:shrug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. I would suspect you might drift apart in favor of emotional intimacy with others

but I could be wrong.

[somewhere_out_there]

11. I'd say I have to agree......

it didn't work out that well in the 70's when it was at its hayday..no reason to think it'd be any better today.

[City of Mills]

17. That's a good point and a valid fear

Realistically, i've been a little afraid that she would find someone else and 'move on', but when I break that thought process down, what bothers me is not her finding happiness with someone else, but completely losing contact with her. And that actually isn't likely to happen. So, here we are.

[In_The_Wind]

8. It takes a lot of relationship work in a situation like the one you've described.

mr.j_a and I have been sharing meals at home together and a bit of conversation for years. We stopped sharing the bedroom (in all respects) since 1999.

Open marriages are defined by what suits both of you.

A divorce shouldn't be necessary if you can become friends.

Good luck

[Wapsie B]

9. Given those parameters I really don't know.

I would think to have such an arrangement there'd have to be a firm foundation of love in place in the marriage. And by what I'm understanding that isn't the case here.

[City of Mills]

12. It's probably hard to say without specifics...

however we're both fairly intelligent people who entered into a relationship from a young age and we've been together since (10 years this year). Though we care about each other very much, we've learned that there are certain differences right now which make it difficult for us to live together. We've both grown in different directions, however we'd both prefer to remain not only civil, but to keep in touch - at this point anyway, we'd both like to see what happens down the road and maybe we'll end up back together, and maybe not. For now though, rather than seeing people behind each other's backs, we've decided to just be as upfront as we can with each other.

[haele]

75. If there's no children involved - and never will be any

You might be able to work it out as a contracted friendship - based partnership. Once babies are involved, everything goes out the window - even if the children are not either of yours, but those of another sexual partner that has been brought into one of your relationships.
The thing to remember is that you both must agree that your partner and you must never put any other relationships before the one you have - so you're both pretty much limited in sexual partners - you both have to make sure that everyone involved knows that the outside relationships are pretty much about sex and not about the partnership.

Every "open marriage" I know of where either children were involved or other more than sexual outside hookups were involved with failed spectacularly - and not in a good way. I have only seen one that worked, and that was because ultimately, the two "did not want to be ex's" never viewed any other relationship above the one that they had. And, the only time they had an "open marriage" was when they were involved with a hobby re-creation group, where they separated their real life from their hobby life.

The odds are usually against any open marriage - unless, of course, the couple went into the partnership recognizing the fact that they were going to be poly-amorous.

Haele

[City of Mills]

13. It's probably hard to say without specifics...

however we're both fairly intelligent people who entered into a relationship from a young age and we've been together since (10 years this year). Though we care about each other very much, we've learned that there are certain differences right now which make it difficult for us to live together. We've both grown in different directions, however we'd both prefer to remain not only civil, but to keep in touch - at this point anyway, we'd both like to see what happens down the road and maybe we'll end up back together, and maybe not. For now though, rather than seeing people behind each other's backs, we've decided to just be as upfront as we can with each other.

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. If you can keep a mature head about it, and not listen to the 90% of Americans with a juvenile

attitude toward sex, you will be fine.

There's no reason that a relationship of love can't exist without sex; and that the same relationship can live just fine when the partners find sexual outlet elsewhere.

It's really only in juvenile "sex is taboo but I want it!" America that this is a problem.

And in your case, since you aren't even going to be living together, it should pose no problem at all - UNLESS one of you fails to maintain the bargain and decides to feel jealous/used/whatever.

I think there are also perfectly legitimate reasons (especially because of the legal benefits of marriage) for a married couple to decide to divorce in posse, but not in reality.

Good luck!

[Blue-Jay]

29. In other words....no chance in hell.

[JVS]

51. Yup. It's a doomed cause

[SeattleGirl]

14. I don't think I could do it.

But that's just me.

[City of Mills]

16. It's not something I ever thought I'd have to think about

But, we do love each other and want each other to be happy - and we both really mean it. So its hard to just divorce someone you really love, even though you drive each other crazy when living under the same roof. What to do??? Our lives are very intertwined and most likely will remain that way, so we're trying to be honest and open as communication has been one of our weaknesses. Things could always change but I think we're at least on the same page with this.

[SeattleGirl]

24. If you are, and it works for the two of you, I say go for it.

:thumbsup:

[Bullwinkle925]

15. Well, my first instinct is a resounding "No" . . .

however, I went with "I don't know" due to the fact that I really don't know either of you nor your circumstances. Just on the law of probabilities, I would say "No" - but, stranger things have happened - who knows?

Good luck - however it works out.

[triguy46]

18. Probably no. Sorry.

[BarenakedLady]

19. Who knows.

But I envy you that you are both on the same page about it.

Good luck.

[City of Mills]

35. That has been the hardest part

Considering our communication breakdown, she's usually better at that but lately it's been mostly me. The hardest part is getting past her barriers, she's afraid to be upfront with me because she feels she doesn't want to hurt me. I can understand that, but I insisted to her that the best thing for us is to be completely open with each other about our situation. And believe me, I'm not looking at this as some license to sleep around and go wild, I just don't want to have to 'sneak' around my own town, I'm not interested in playing games.

[bluethruandthru]

20. Are children involved?

That would put a whole different dynamic into the situation.

[City of Mills]

21. No children...

I'm 32, she's 26...we've pretty much completely separated our lives at this point, yet we still enjoy hanging out now and then.

[Withywindle]

22. I voted "maybe"...

...because I'm not clear on what you mean by "work" in this case.

Every couple I've ever known that made polyamory "work" as I understand it wanted very much to be together and put each other first. That's a very difficult path, but it can work if the commitment is there--including the commitment to be honest to other partners.

In this case it sounds as if you are not at all certain you want to be "together" anymore. In fact, it sounds like an extremely amicable mutual breakup, but just not dissolving the legal marriage. I think that can work as long as you both stay on the same page.

(I know a married couple who've never had a sexual relationship and never will; the man of the pair is totally gay, in fact. They married out of an extremely deep friendship and a belief that no one would ever make a better life partner for the other, sex or romance notwithstanding. They trust each other completely in matters of health decisions and real estate. Unconventional, but why not? Marriage can be anything the individuals involved decide they want it to be.)

Honestly, it sounds like a transitional state to me. And it certainly can work as that as long as you keep the mutual affection paramount.

Just my two cents. :hi:

[Zookeeper]

23. I think it depends on what it is that you want the marriage to be...

If you want to be good friends, who are still legally married, sure!

If you want to be still married in an intimate, sexual, emotional way, but are be sexual with other people, hmmmm....maybe.

If you want to still be intimate and emotionally dependent, but one or both of you is leaving yourselves open to sex with other people in the hopes that you find someone "better," no!


I wish you both luck, whatever you decide. :hi:

[Jamastiene]

25. Aren't you supposed to fulfill each other's needs?

It's not for me to say whether something is right for you or not, but I wish you the best of luck anyhow. Who knows? Maybe, y'all can make it work. :shrug: Good luck.

[SarahB]

26. I don't know.

I'm still learning myself. Seems to me if the "open" part isn't together or in no way enhances the relationship, why stay together? Why not just be apart- say you're separated and call it a day? :shrug:

[Midlodemocrat]

27. I've known several couples who have tried this and it hasn't worked out.

That's not to say yours won't, however.

[City of Mills]

28. I'm cool with her being with other guys

And it has yet to be determined if she'll be cool with me seeing other women.

[triguy46]

30. Have I been transported to a 1968 John Updike novel?

[City of Mills]

31. Well, we live in a Boston suburb

I guess we'll see how it turns out... I may need to journal this stuff.

[flvegan]

33. Why don't you "want to be divorced"?

I think that's the elephant in the corner.

[bicentennial_baby]

34. Ding!

[City of Mills]

37. An excellent question!

Well, you know, because I really love my wife. I've been working towards reconciliation for some time, but when it comes down to it, there's a lot of fear that we will get back together and have the same problems we had before. We've gone to counseling over this, and it's helped but the situation is this woman has been my best friend for ten great years and maybe we weren't meant to be together as man and wife. I don't know.

I do know, that I'm not going to ask her to divorce me, as I have had plenty of opportunities to do so...and vice versa. We may have to eventually, but just as we have grown apart, there's a chance that with a little more life seasoning we can make a better go at it. In the meantime, neither one of us are looking to getting into another relationship, so we figure why jump the gun and get divorced when there's no immediate reason to do so?

[flvegan]

41. "I've been working towards reconciliation for some time,"

That says a lot. I hope things work out for the both of you, I really do.

[triguy46]

48. Seriously, and with best hopes...

I think the sex thing is an IED on the road to reconciliation.

[regnaD kciN]

57. Ouch! No kidding...

I hate to throw cold water on your "open marriage" idea, but you should realize the likely outcome of this: that the "arrangement" will continue, with work on reconciliation being put to the side, until she meets someone new, decides she's "in love" with them, and files for divorce.

I'm sorry to say that I think you're fooling yourself out of a sense of desparation. If there's any hope of a reconciliation, both parties should commit to working on that, and pledging to monogamy until it's clear whether the attempt will be successful or not. If one or the other partner is unwilling to do so, and demands the right to "satisfy their needs" with other people, they might as well face the fact that it's all over but the shouting.

[supernova]

36. Honestly, I don't know any

way this can end, except badly.

While I wish you the best, divorced is not the end of the world, you know. I and millions of others are living proof.

[LynzM]

38. Totally depends on you guys and your personalities and needs.

Everyone needs different things. I have a friend whose parents have lived separately and dated each other for the 10 years I've known him. Some people do fine with open relationships (in many forms, not just this one) and some do not.

[IdaBriggs]

39. I'm betting "NO" but I'm a cynical sort.

Sounds like a recipe for legal disaster -- her bills will be your bills (and vice versa), her debts will be your debts (and vice versa) and her lawsuits will be your lawsuits (and vice versa). Assuming you are both financial responsible people, with no crazy relatives who will try to screw a surviving spouse, there are issues like "who gets to sign for medical treatment, including the cessation of such if needed" as well as "who is going to pay for funerals, inherit assets, help take care of elderly relatives, etc.?"

A good marriage isn't just about friendship and sex -- its a committed partnership, with mutual goals, and legal responsibilities. If she ends up in a car crash (or you do) and needs "help" for the rest of her (or your life), will you be there for each other? If one of you ends up with cancer, will the other be there daily to hold the vomit bowl? And if sometime in the next ten years she decides she wants a family, who will be there for her to help raise her children? Who will be there to share the joy, terror and frustrating moments of normal life? Take care of her if she has to go on bedrest/gets pre-eclampsia, or wants to stay at home during their infancy?

I hope the two of you are able to work things out. "Open" relationships can work -- I've seen it, but its not for me -- but they are frankly more work than "closed" ones because now you've got the emotional needs of MORE people than just "two" -- and TWO is hard enough to communicate with already!

Honestly, this just sounds like a step on the journey towards divorce for both of you at this point. As soon as one of you finds a (better?) partner, I'm betting papers will be filed.

Or you could both work on BEING better partners, learn to communicate/compromise/cherish each other, read some books/get some therapy, etc. But that's probably just crazy talk!!!

Good luck, tho.

[City of Mills]

67. I think your comments make a lot of sense

I am finding that getting to the point of this arrangement has been a lot of work, and it would be easier if we both committed to working through the issues that are keeping us apart - we have (had) a pretty good foundation and I believe we can work though some of the tough issues we are facing, but you know what they say, it takes two to fall in love and one to fall out.

[uppityperson]

40. It all depends on if you can make it work.

I have known some who could, many who couldn't. Best of luck. Open communication, lack of fear, these seem necessary. Lack of fear meaning no jealousy, for or from either, being able to be financially independent, so forth. Good luck.

[City of Mills]

70. You're right

It requires everything you mentioned, at a minimum. It will only work if we're completely honest with each other and of course, lack of fear is crucial. I'm not a posessive person and I've already become aware of my wife's 'side business' so I know I can handle the jealousy and insecurity. We're both able to survive financially on our own so again that's a big help.

[Monk06]

42. My wife and I have an open marriage..... Worst PU line evah! BTW are you retarded?

[City of Mills]

65. Yes.

Thanks for asking! :eyes:

[edbermac]

43. Hell no. Ever see Fatal Attraction?

There are a lot of crackpots out there. And you both don't know where they've been.

[liberalhistorian]

45. That movie has always really pissed me off. It put the blame

totally on the woman, while making the husband out to be completely innocent and blameless, which was bullshit. HE decided to screw around on his wife, HE used the woman, without regard to the fact that she just might have developed feelings for him while he was using her, then just tossed her aside when he was done. Yet, SHE was made the crazy villain, with ALL of the blame put on her. Talk about a sexist double standard, Jesus.

[City of Mills]

66. I don't watch too much TV

or movies, but yeah there's definitely a lot of crackpots out there. A lot of people with some serious issues. But that stuff doesn't worry me too much - I could die any given day so why sweat it?

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

44. Good Luck, and Best of Wishes,

Honesty in relationships is the foundation of trust which is the cement that binds.

Over 30 years here in an open relationship, (left twice thinking it was over, but returned) and we still have moments of frustrating communications. (Though advice was against a Fire sign being with a Water sign, both my parents were Water signs and I had lived through that.)

Counseling can be of help, but you and your wife have your own desires/needs and sharing them "from the Heart" will, I imagine, develop whatever your future may hold.

Again, Best Wishes,
ADW

[City of Mills]

69. This sounds a lot like our situation

We've come close to calling it quits a couple of times but one or the other comes back, and we never regret that. We're completely different in polarity; she's an outgoing, emotional nurturer and I'm an analytical, stable independant so we sometimes have a hard time fulfilling each others' needs. Overall though, we're really a good complement for each other so we're trying to think outside the norm in order to find a way to coexist.

[liberalhistorian]

46. Dude, I'm sorry, but what's the point of being married

if you don't want to live together and share a total partnership? That's what marriage is, a commitment to care for one another and be full partners in every way. Otherwise, what the hell is the point? "And forsaking all others" ain't just something you say during the ceremony to get it over with so you can go party at the reception. Sounds to me like you're better off being divorced and then staying friends afterwards, 'cause that's pretty much what the situation seems to be now. Either that, or you could actually try WORKING on the relationship if you two care about and love each other as much as you say you do. Marriage DOES take work, you know, even the best of marriages do.

[xchrom]

47. marriage is what the two of you make it.

in other words -- if you want this open relationship to work it will -- if not -- then you won't.

the two of you will have to talk about this and work out the details -- i.e. if you need to keep satellite affairs out of each others sightlines -- work out how you do that.

if one of you is feeling uncomfortable -- say so -- and so on.

and most of all -- don't forget to have fun with each otther and be supportive.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. typically open marriages work when a marriage is already strong and secure

not when its on its last legs.

[City of Mills]

68. That seems counterintuitive to me

But probably because the decision is arrived at from different motivations.

[Nikia]

72. I think that this is what she means

If you both agree to an open marriage because you have a strong marriage, you will not be jealous of your partmer's sexual partners because you both know that you love each other first and therefore have no need to feel insecure or jealous. I am not saying that people who have closed marriages are insecure, I am just saying that this is the reasoning.
If you are insecure in your relationship, it is much more likely that you or your partner will come to love and become more attatched to your lovers than your spouse. This may happen to one of you before it happens to the other one. If you realize that your spouse falls in love with one of her lovers, how will you feel? If you cannot seem to live together, why wouldn't your spouse be happier with someone who she is more compatible with if that happen to be one of her lovers?
I think that having an open marriage while your marriage is shakey means that one or both of you will end up having a stronger relationship with a lover than each other. Needs from a partner aren't just sexual.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

77. some people have open marriages because they arent monogamous by nature

but to have an open marriage when its already going through a hard time is difficult

[Giant Robot]

73. I agree

This will work if you both are strong and secure in the relationship, and this will be fulfilling mutual goals/needs/desires/whatever. And I am not hearing you say that. What you have revealed has made me imagine a relationship where at least one of the two, or maybe both of you, have a foot out the door already. That is just a hop, skip and jump away from....and I have met someone and really want to be with him/her and so I want a divorce.

And I am not sure about your desire to stay married so you can be friends and stay in each others lives and have a shot at a "reconciliation" or whatever word you want to use. You can certainly be friends and have potential for more if you are divorced.

I guess the only other thing I would ask is that you think about what you want and what your goals are for this open marriage deal. See if they match up with hers, and that will give you a hint at what this arrangement can lead to. And honestly, good luck and take care of yourself ok?

[YDogg]

50. Beyond your needs and her needs ...

... what happens when one of you meets someone else you or she begins to care for? Why would they want to get into this three-way relationship?

Good luck with this ... I hope it works out in some way, but it sounds like a losing proposition.

[electron_blue]

52. I used to think 'no', but since then I've learned of many long-term open marriages

It's not as uncommon as I used to think.

i'm curious - why not divorce?

[Nikia]

53. What do you want from the other people who you would be sleeping with

Have you considered their feelings?
It sounds like you will be basically separated. A lot of people try to have relationships with separated people and get hurt if this person is willing to leave their partner.

[City of Mills]

64. Honesty

Believe me, anyone I end up sleeping with is going to know exactly what's going on with my situation. It's not easy to date when you're married :) However, there are some people who get off on the 'badness' of the situation so I'm not too worried. I'm not too concerned with that part yet anyway, as I am enjoying and getting the most out of being cool with myself and the last thing I'm looking for is another relationship. I still have a lot of things to figure out for myself. But at the same time, life just happens and sometimes things don't happen on a neat and set schedule so I'm trying to be realistic with the possible outcomes of being married to someone who's not ready to give things another try.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

54. Either be married or be divorced.

No one should be in something that they want to be in anymore. Its a waste of life and time. It sounds a co-dependency thing. You don't want to be with that person but yet don't want to be alone. You want to still have that person instead of being by yourself. Good luck.

[undeterred]

55. If you are honest and respect each other and communicate

anything is possible. Don't let the naysayers stop you from trying to be positive.

[NC_Nurse]

56. Have you tried counseling?

You might want to give it a shot first.

Even if only to lay ground rules for this arrangement.

[SacredCow]

58. It can be done....

Gay man here, and this kind of arrangement is not all that uncommon to the gay community.

Personally, I think it's a trainwreck waiting to happen but I know some who have been doing it for 30-something years. However, I also know some who tried it and in short order were calling in lawyers. Guess it depends on the parties involved....

[City of Mills]

63. It probably sounds stupid and naive on its face

But we're never going to lose touch, we work at the same place, we both love our jobs and despite what rought times we've already been through, we still care very deeply for each other and work together well. It just sucks that at this point we can't figure out how to live together without driving each other crazy. She's already had an affair on me, and that's one of the things that has prompted this current arrangement. I've forgiven her for the affair, the sex part didn't bother me so much as the deception and sneaking around did. So we cleared that up, and we're gonna try being open with each other instead. So who knows - I feel pretty relaxed and comfortable with the arrangement, and I think it will take some of the pressure off to 'fix things' when we can let it happen (or not happen) on it's own and if it's meant to be, then it's meant to be.

[SacredCow]

76. Well, given the situation....

It's probably worth a try at this point. It's not like you woke up one day and decided on a whim to change a stable, monogamous relationship into an open one. Obviously, you've given the matter serious and logical thought.

Of course, the outside perceptions of what's going on in your lives are going to be LOTS of fun to respond to (:sarcasm: ). Perhaps you have a great circle of friends and acquaintences who don't get too nosy- and good on ya if you do. Otherwise, my guess is that you should be prepared to dish out a hell of a lot of MYOB!

[bigwillq]

59. Not usually

from my experience and from friend's experiences but I guess you have to give it a shot, right?

[DS1]

60. What's her number?

:hide:

[City of Mills]

61. ...

:spank:

[supernova]

62. Naught boy!

:spank:

[YDogg]

71. a nasty, bad, naughty boy.

[DS1]

74. I hereby resign my position

:yoiks: