this job is difficult

[Pierre.Suave]

I volunteer at a job center for homeless people here in Minneapolis, supposed to be rewarding work helping people that are down on their luck, get a job and help themselves get out of this situation.

BUT...

It doesnt work that way.

I get treated like a slave instead, do this for me, do that for me, and dont say anything when I look at porn instead of a job or you will get your ass kicked...

I get threatened with an ass kicking because I can't hand them a job that pays some hugely disproportionate amount of money with no hours, that will allow them to smoke weed, drink beer, and get (women). We began insisting that the people that come up here ACTUALLY look for a job, but apparently that is too much to ask.

somedays, I want to tell them all WHY they dont have a job, walk out of here, and never come back.

[IndianaJones]

1. sounds rewarding. nt.

[DS1]

2. I would do that last line

but that's me

[Sanity Claws]

3. Step out of it for a while

I'm glad you want to help people and the community. However, you sense that you are not helping these people, but instead enabling to continue things you don't support. Stop doing it. There are other places where you can devote your precious time and energy and feel better about it.
What about doing some literacy work? Maybe tutoring children?

[redqueen]

4. Sounds like that place needs to set some admission standards.

[mzteris]

5. do they offer other services?

Like mental and physical health check-up/referrals?

Many homeless are homeless for a reason. Usually mental health related. Until you treat the illness (and the self-medicating addictions) - then getting them to work is probably a pretty useless task.

jmo, of course.

[Pierre.Suave]

8. not here in the job center

there are people here that will help them find that help, but they do not think they need that cause god knows they are all perfect and the rest of us are all fucked up...:eyes:

[mzteris]

11. no they're not all perfect

they're MENTALLY ILL.

Sounds like you're really burned out on this place. Maybe it's time to find a new place to volunteer.

Thanks for volunteering, though. :hi:

[Pierre.Suave]

14. those are not my words

they are theirs...

[raccoon]

6. Gosh, that's almost enough to turn a person into a Republican.

Can't say I'd blame you if you did what you said in the last paragraph.

[Pierre.Suave]

20. that wont happen

I will be dead before I become a republican in the current political climate.

[LaraMN]

7. The worst thing about people like those you describe

is that they provide ammunition for those who would like to characterize all homeless/unemployed/low income people as such, and that is egregiously inaccurate and detrimental stereotyping.

That sucks.

:-(

[Pierre.Suave]

9. I think the biggest point of contention between them and me is

that I am trying to get them to help themselves, and they just want to sit down and be helped, and do nothing to help themselves.

For example, they want to know if the bus goes someplace, I answer with either the phone number 373-3333, or www.metrotransit.org

or, they want to know how far away a place is, I answer www.maps.google.com

I am not trying to be an asshole, but I am trying to get them to help themselves.

Earlier, for example, I was asked how an employer would do a background check to see if the applicant had any felonies. I said, I have no idea but I guess they would call the police and have a criminal background check done for a few dollars. Well, you would have thought I had suggested stabbing their mom or somthing. They just about revolted.

To be fair, we also have people that come up here, look for jobs, find them, and move on in their lives. But not many.

[mzteris]

12. some of them may not KNOW how

to use a computer. Or use a map. Or negotiate the bus system. Or have a phone. Or they're afraid of talking on the phone.

[Pierre.Suave]

13. The funny thing is

that the poeple that dont know how to use the computer, that dont use maps, or use the phone, find the jobs because instead of sitting up here looking at porn, drinking coffee, and sleeping inbetween bitching at me, go get jobs the old fashioned way, or they actually ask for help finding a job, I help them and they get hte job.

The ones that complain, threaten, and cause problems, know how to use the phone, the computer well enough to surf porn and get around the internet filters, and even know how to hustle the bus sytems well enough to get rides without a bus pass...

So that excuse doesnt work with me.

[mzteris]

15. why aren't there filters on the 'puter? n/t

[Pierre.Suave]

16. there is a filter

but it apparently does not filter out proxy servers that allow you to circumvent the filter.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

23. I think I understand where you're coming from

You are bumping heads with people who are mentally ill or have been "down and out" for so long that they can't imagine that their lives could change.

You are also running into people who are - well - just users. It's not just the wealthy, corporate Enron types who like to use and abuse people. Those kinds of people exist across all class strata, and you can get seriously burned out trying to help such people. Been there, done that.

[datasuspect]

32. the spaniards did the same thing with the indigenous "savages"

you can help someone in a very meaningful way by being understanding and treating them like human beings instead of secondary-school pupils.

[Pierre.Suave]

10. oh, and god frobid

that I suggest they start looking for a job instead of sleeping, eating our goodies, and drinking our coffee.

[Dora]

17. You're on the front lines.

My husband did homeless outreach for five years with SVdeP. Showers, clothing, health/dental clinic, haircuts, food distribution, soup kitchen.

It's thankless work.

Keep it up. When you get tired of it, step aside and let somebody else step in. Don't let it exhaust you.

:hug:

Thank you.

[Pierre.Suave]

18. it is thankless

it is so very frustrating because I want to help them, and genuinely care about them, but they take my kindness as weakness and then try as hard as they can to take advantage of me and squeeze everything they can out of that kindness while at the same time accomplishing nothing to help themselves move beyond this situation.

[Dora]

19. Yep.

And sometimes there's a connection, a change, some progress. But that's not often.

:hug:

[skygazer]

21. You might need to take a break for your own sanity

Really, all you can do is help the people who are ready to be helped. You have to try with the others, of course, but don't take it personally when it just doesn't go anywhere.

I have an understanding of what its like on both sides of this coin. A lot of times, the resistance to your help is rooted in fear, fear that they will never let you see and fear they won't acknowledge even to themselves. And thats a fear of change, and of having to step up to the plate and perform.

People can't understand why anyone would "choose" to remain homeless and people don't really want to so much as they are sometimes afraid of the alternative. Of having to go to a job and keep it. Of the unknown (have you ever gotten a new job and had butterflies about going in on your first day? That kind of thing only more so because its such a huge change).

They want someone to fix things without them having to leave the comfort zone of this area that they've learned to negotiate, one in which they have familiar faces and places. One that seems horribly frightening to those of us who are NOT homeless but has become the norm for them. Its not an easy life but it is familiar and while they certainly have one set of day-to-day worries, it can be scary to think of exchanging those worries for the worries of holding a job and paying rent, etc. And the longer they've been on the street, the more ingrained it is.

It may not be logical but its part of human nature. Try to keep that in mind when dealing with them because I think that is at the root of some of the resistance people encounter. Not all - but some.

And good for you for volunteering. :thumbsup:

[Kali]

22. may I recommend a book?

Beyond Civilization by Daniel Quinn

An interesting perspective about a lot of things.

[rug]

24. Republican.

[Pierre.Suave]

25. Are you calling me a

republican?

[rug]

26. Why, yes.

:hide:

[Pierre.Suave]

28. why?

Cause I volunteer to help people less fortunate than me and expect nothing but to be treated with a bit of respect, even if that respect only manifests itself by NOT threatening to kick my ass?

edit: Also, I am sorry, I wish I could be as perfect as you...:eyes:

[rug]

29. Since this is the Lounge and not GD, I will forebear some remarks.

But your eyeroll invites a response.

You're painting with a pretty wide brush. If somebody threatens to kick your ass (can't imagine why), deal with that person.

Unless you're saying that's typical of everyone who goes to the homeless center to partake of your generosity. And if that is what you're saying, call into Hannity. He'll back you.

[Pierre.Suave]

30. I have an idea

why dont you come down here, spend some time here and work with me.

I have been here for a month, in that time I have been hit for absolutely no reason, been threatened numerous times for absolutely nothing, am treated like a slave, and basically treated like shit.

For what? I have done nothing to anyone here, there life is not my fault, I am however volunteering my time to try to help them, if they want it.

I also never said that everyone here is like that, I stated specifically above that it was not everyone and that in that time numerous people have come through here, have gotten a job and moved on and out. The ones that have never once threatened me, never hit me, and never treated me like dirt. I also never threatened them, never hit them, and never treated them like dirt.

I just dont get what you are saying? Do you think that it is ok for them to hit me, threaten me, and treat me like dirt just because they are homeless? If so, thats bullshit.

[rug]

33. No, you don't have to put up with crap.

I read your post again and didn't see anywhere that you were complaining about individuals.

Instead, I saw this: "We began insisting that the people that come up here ACTUALLY look for a job, but apparently that is too much to ask."

I have spent a lot of time with homeless people, in centers and elsewhere. Unless Minneapolis is a demographic anomaly, it's not unusual to encounter this behavior from some individuals. Why are you so surprised? If the rich can act like assholes, so can some homeless people.

If you can't figure out a way to deal with this situation do yourself - and them - a favor and spread your sunshine elsewhere.

[jpgray]

27. This isn't surprising, and their behavior isn't unusual or extreme

My SO has worked with the homeless for a few years at a shelter, and I think what some people don't get about the perpetual homeless (excepting the 10% or so that have serious mental/physical problems) is how much behavioral inertia years of living on the street and taking handouts generates. You have so much momentum behind those negative behaviors, built up over a period of years, that it's extremely difficult to switch over to being a total go-getter.

This isn't limited to the homeless--a sedentary/lazy lifestyle, eating rich fatty foods, drugs, smoking, alcohol, etc. can produce the same effect. You're not capable of going after opportunities to change with a standing start. You're starting out way behind, going in the opposite direction. People who ask "how can he live like that? He's smart, he has assistance, he has opportunities, and he squanders them" I think are missing the point. Plus, probably the people asking that question have their -own- bad habits perpetuated by behavioral inertia which are very difficult to stop, but somehow they never seem to connect the two situations as being similar.

So I assume you never have had a bad habit for which the question "Why don't you just -not- do that? Starting now?" is an uncomfortable one. :D

[Pierre.Suave]

34. actually

I have had a bad habit, and have had an intervention by friends. was it uncomfortable, yes. Did I hit them, threaten them or treat them like dirt, no.

If you want to know what it was, My sophomore year in college I was partying and drinking a LOT. My grades were suffering. My friends got together, brought me aside, and basically laid out the way it was going to be and why I needed to stop. Then, they helped me redirect that energy, and were supportive. They were friends.

I understand what you are saying, that is why I am here, I want to help but I also want them to REALIZE that they CAN help themselves, that they DONT NEED a handout and that it is POSSIBLE to do it.

Constantly giving handouts is also not a good way to help anyone.

one more thing, the job center here is just one part of a very supportive helpful community of people that want to help them with whatever their issues may be.

[jpgray]

35. Yeah, just sort of pointing out the behavior isn't as inexplicable as some think

And getting frustrated or angry or blaming someone doesn't usually do a whit of good. You can't control the behavior of others, you can only control your own. You can try to explain to someone how they might benefit from a change, but when it doesn't work, it's best to blame only yourself, or not even yourself.

[datasuspect]

31. unceasing hopelessness, addiction, and a lifestyle fraught with danger from all sides

from drunk frat boys who think fucking with homeless people is a sport to surly cops who roust you/arrest you for sleeping outside.

hmmm.

i'd be happy to let them look at porn for a few minutes here and there.

not much else to look forward to in that lifestyle.

you cannot really bring middle class assumptions into this: they're not going to be self-starting team players.

homelessness takes a tremendous toll on the psyche. you become an invisible, voiceless person. a complete object who is acted upon and who has no agency in a world that values rapid/rabid activity to keep oneself on a razor thin margin from bankruptcy and collapse.

i can't blame those guys, their lot in life sucks.

could you do something about it? can someone bring themselves out from homelessness? yes, it's possible, but it requires civic intervention and a support system.

you certainly cannot expect people who live on the ultimate fringe to be chipper and ready to jump into the rat race feet first with a smile on their face.