Why so many kid haters here?

[Taverner]

I keep seeing this pop up in threads: this whole "you think you deserve special treatment because you had kids!" BS. No, we don't, we just expect common courtesy and respect. Toting around kids ain't easy - and yes it was a choice to have kids. It's also a choice to use a wheelchair as opposed to crawling around on the ground. Should we complain to the handicapped because they didn't crawl around on the floor like "Gawd Intended"? No and no.

[skygazer]

1. You've done it now

Pretty soon, you'll be reviled as a "breeder" and all the troubles of the Earth will be laid at your feet. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Here, have some popcorn. :popcorn:

[Taverner]

4. Thanks! LOL

Yep, I'm a proud breeder, raising the next generation of Democrats.

Meanwhile, the DINK's and such are too selfish and are content to know the Republicans are outfucking us! :P

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. selfishness is a human quality

while i dont think parents need to be held on a pedestal they might need more consideration than i do.

hopefully are you raising the future of the world, and i have an investment in wanting you to raise it well.


also people in general are idiots.

[MissMillie]

6. well put

all 3 of those statements!

:thumbsup:

[Taverner]

10. Yup and yup

If we don't breed, the GOP will outfuck us

Want proof?

[Deep13]

17. How did I know that's where you were going?

:spray:

As I was waiting for the picture, I thought, it's going to be that Fundy couple with the 17 children.

[Taverner]

18. LOL

Well it is a worry of mine

I seem to be the only parent in our parents group who wears "God is Dead" and "CBGB" shirts to the meetings.

[tigereye]

31. I wear CBGB shirts, too

even at my kids alternative- type school, I am considered somewhat of a radical. :shrug:

[Rambis]

46. great now we have a "fuck gap" with the fundies/GOP

Start fuckin people!
the boy and the girl

[driver8]

58. What is a group of freepers called? A horde? A gaggle? A clusterfuck?

Just wondering...

[Deep13]

19. Selfishness and generosity are both human qualities.

Generosity is a way of demonstrating social rank. Consequently, people are likely to be generous if they think they are getting gratitutude or appreciation in return. On the other hand, people will be selfish if they think they are being dumped on without their consent or approval.

[driver8]

57. Great post.

Thanks for that...

I was beginning to feel like a leper because I decided to have children.

[madinmaryland]

3. ..

This should be good!!

:popcorn:

[Dr. Strange]

5. It's probably because they all voted for Nader.

Typical kids, not thinking of the future!

[mainegreen]

7. I think everyone should spend some time raising a kid if only to see what we did to our parents.

Sorry mom. I had no idea what a pain in the ass this is!

[Zookeeper]

36. Yes. It's a humbling experience. n/t

[Taverner]

38. It reminds me of the final throes of a coke binge too

Paranoid, no sleep, mood swings, hangover x10...yep thats the first 3 months of a kid!

[NashVegas]

40. I Think That's Wrong

I've seen the difference between parents who act and treat their children like parenthood is some kind of burden, and those who are excited to share their lives with the little creatures. The attitude is 100% reciprocal, IMO.

[mainegreen]

66. I don't view it as a burden, but it sure isn't easy either.

It's hard work.
However, it is enjoyable in that weird, hard to describe way that parenting is enjoyable.

[Bassic]

51. Quite true. nt

[LynneSin]

8. Don't make me taser you and your kid's collective asses

:hide:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

9. I was going to say something

snarky like "You must not have kids, huh?" But then I read your post and FOR GODS SAKE!!! You come to the Lounge and post a serious question?

WTF is wrong with you????

JK

I actually agree with your post and...

I don't hate MY kids... it's all the other kids that keep hanging around with them over here at my house eating all the chips and playing on the Wii.

Okay?

(I actually like almost all of them -- but there are a couple I'd like to smack with a fish)

[LynneSin]

12. Skip the fish and go for the taser

that'll teach em to hog your Wii

[Arugula Latte]

20. I'm with ya. We had a group of kids here last night --

I swear to god, most of them were pretty well behaved but there was one little shit who needed to be pummeled with a fish. A large fish. Like a 300-lb. halibut. What pissed me off more was the parent just sitting there as his little shit offspring ruined the event.

[barb162]

43. Yeah, is it the kids or the parents?

Yesterday I was at a restaurant where a kid walked up to me asking me for something as I was eating at a booth with a friend. The kid's mom was busy on a cell phone at a nearby table.

[Arugula Latte]

63. That drives me nuts. If anything, I am over-sensitive to how my kids

come across in public or in a group. I have no problem in pulling them aside and telling them that their behavior is not appropriate and that they had better shape up. I don't know what this parent's problem was...I guess he's just obvlivious and permissive. He's doing an extreme disservice to the kid, who is extremely unlikable, and I don't use that term frequently when it comes to kids. This kid just is. He seems to rub everybody the wrong way.

[barb162]

77. You're doing it right. Congratulations!

I'd say about a third of the kids in my neighborhood are screwed up by their parents, usually from no discipline. You can watch a kid do something wrong right in front of the parents and the parents seem to not even notice it. I live close to an elementary school, so I see a lot.

[Deep13]

11. So you are comparing procreation to a physical disability?

I guess that's pretty much how I see it too. That's why I never had any.

I don't hate children or people with children. Can't say that I like them at all, but I wish them all the best and everything and always vote Deomcratic. I even vote for school levies when they are justified.

Having said that, I just don't think the whole world needs to be child-friendly. Also, and I am speaking generally here, I would not mind them so much if parents exercised some amount of control over their children's public behavior.

[Taverner]

15. Yes and yes

And I don't beleive the networks should have "family hour" or such shit. I swear in front of my kids, and remind them not to use words like that outside the house. If they see boobies, hooray! They saw them when they were breastfeeding too.

However, I do think the mother (or father) with the two kids on the bus deserves the empty seat. And there should never EVER be a no parking sign within 100 feet of a day care.

[Deep13]

21. The "no parking" sign might be for the fire lane.

Just a guess. If so, I won't want to get in the way of that.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. You should talk. You're always posting drivel about Taverner_rugrat did this,

Taverner_rugrat did that, blah blah blah.
Next thing we know you'll be posting more pictures of them.


You WILL post more pictures, right?

:-)

[IndianaJones]

14. Bill Maher syndrome. nt.

[skygazer]

16. BMS

[Maine-ah]

22. woo-hoo!

:woohoo: :applause:

and the term "breeders" effing pisses me off. IMHO Most of the posts I have seen using this term to describe people who are parents are using it in a derogatory way.

[ghostsofgiants]

23. Because people are douchebags, essentially.

[johnnie]

24. I don't mind kids

I'm one of those rare people who realizes the world doesn't spin around my ass. I don't have children, but I realize other people do and kids can be noisy and even bratty sometimes. Oh well, I deal with it.

I also know that stores will sometimes ask for a receipt and I don't mind taking 15 seconds out of my valuable time to show it.

I also know that if cops carrying guns and other weapons tell you, "Ok, you have had enough time and we turned your mic off...move on", then I guess I am done and I can move on. My point has already been made. There are other people who should have a chance to ask questions too.

I also realize that not everyone smokes and I try to accommodate everyone so they don't have to smell my smoke. But at the same time I also realize that I am being looked at as a second class citizen because I do smoke and I will always be looked at by certain people as scum. Oh well.

I also realize that not everyone is going to think exactly like I think and sometimes people will disagree. No matter how many times I may call them a "troll", "Nazi", "so-called progressive" or do this :eyes: , chances are they aren't changing their minds. I may state my opinion, but after that it becomes a drag so I tend to shut up and move on. This is in real life and here at DU.

I also understand that some people like to eat at different restaurants than I do and I honestly could give a shit where and what you eat.

I also realize that there are lots of different types of entertainment out there and not all of it is my cup of tea. But who the fuck am I to say that anyone who watches American Idol is a dolt? I don't give a crap what you listen to, what you watch and what performers you like. If you aren't hurting anyone then I say, "Have fun".

There are many other things that really don't get under my skin as much as they do other's. Sometimes things in life suck to you, but that's what life is, dealing with suck. There's that story of the man bitching that he had no shoes until he saw the man with no feet. That's how I deal with suck. Some little kid crying in a restaurant is no big deal. Me opening the door for a mother trying to carry her child into a store is not going to kill me.

So you see, this is why I am such a boring DUer, I really don't give a shit as much about a lot of things that people do and I'm not willing to sit here for hours on end in a flamefest trying to prove my "opinion" to people who won't change theirs.

I have no idea why I wrote all of this.
I like kids. :)

[huskerlaw]

27. Seriously

:yourock:

[MissMillie]

28. I think I love you.....

:loveya:


thank you for sounding so reasoned, accepting, and fair.

[Taverner]

29. "...will always be looked at by certain people as scum"

You do know some of those looks are actually us ex-smokers, longing for a cigarette, trying to bask in your smokey goodness :)

[johnnie]

35. Ha!

That's funny. And probably true.

[tigereye]

34. you have pretty much covered everything!

:thumbsup:

[PeaceNikki]

45. That was beautiful.

:applause:

[enigmatic]

47. yep

you da man, bro. I'm childfree and wouldn't have it any other way, but but hysterical flamefests over this (or anything else on DU)is about as pointless as Yakov Smirnoff's career...

[Rosie1223]

49. Great post!

:thumbsup:

[Withywindle]

59. Ghods, thank you!

What ever happened to "live and let live" being considered a virtue? How about "don't sweat the small stuff"?

I don't hate kids. That's far too strong a word. I'm just not the least bit interested in them. I'd never hurt one, but I wouldn't go out of my way to spend time with one either. That doesn't mean I have to act like a snotty shit to them, or their parents. Like you said, opening doors for people and stuff - no problem!

On the other hand, if your baby is shrieking in a movie theater or a restaurant or an airplane (or worse, a toddler running around and shrieking and creating a traffic hazard), and you don't even try do anything about it, well, you ARE going to get dirty looks and maybe some rude remarks and hopefully a complaint to management. Certainly from me. It's noise pollution, and a lot of people find it actually physically painful. Your child is inflicting discomfort on other people, which means it's crossed that "live and let live" line. I'm under no obligation to tolerate it--just like you're under no obligation to tolerate my cigarette smoke, or my mp3 player with my Norwegian black metal turned up way too loud, or my drunken cussing fits, or any other boundary-crossing unpleasant thing I might do.

Be aware and courteous of your surroundings when you have to share space with other people. That's basic and it applies to everybody.

[idgiehkt]

71. then why are you wasting your time on DU?

:rofl:

Just kidding. :hug: :loveya:

[Downtown Hound]

25. It's the American way

America has pretty much been at war with it's youth for over half a century. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[LaraMN]

26. Because no wants to admit that kids are generally smarter than adults.

At least in many of the ways that matter.

[Shell Beau]

32. They do love unconditionally! That is for sure!

[A-Long-Little-Doggie]

41. No teenagers yet, heh??

:hi:

[Shell Beau]

42. No! Teenagers can be plain evil!!!!

:P I know I was, ask my mom!!

[Deep13]

50. Huh. I thought we were talking about human children,...

...not some some other kind that loves unconditionally. That sure as hell was not my experience when I was one. If anything, their thinking was a text-book example of in-group and out-group dynamics.

[Shell Beau]

52. Kids (for the most part) aren't judgemental and hold their parents on a pedestal.

And kids are honest. Even when a lie would sound better. I am talking more about small children.

[Deep13]

54. I am also talking about small children. nt

[Shell Beau]

55. That is just my experience with children.

After working at 2 daycares for over 6 years and majoring in elementary ed., I feel I have a fair amount of experience with children to base that on.

[Deep13]

61. Well, I'm sure you know what you observe.

My own experience was as the "omega" member of the neighborhood when I could look foreward to being treated as a non-person who only existed to be a target of thrown rocks, assaults, property offenses and some pretty creative insults most of which had to do with homosexuality which was an assumed "fact."

[Shell Beau]

62. I am sorry. Sounds like you had a tough experience.

[judaspriestess]

30. why is not having kids selfish?

you ask for common courtesy and respect and people who don't have kids are selfish? thats a disrespectful discourteous thing to say.

I'm just curious on the selfish take, as I've heard that before. :)

[Taverner]

33. It was a baseless taunt

Hence the :P

I actually think its selfish to have kids for any reason other than you want kids. Subjecting kids to a life where they are unwanted is unethical as hell.

[judaspriestess]

37. thats what I thought but I decided to ask the question anyway

as I have heard the 'selfish' argument before from people. "you don't have any kids cause you are selfish" and I thought I would actually get an explanation of that rationale.

Some woman went so far as to tell me, what if I was denying the world the next president or someone who found a cure for cancer.................

:crazy:

[Withywindle]

75. This is one I've NEVER understood

Some woman went so far as to tell me, what if I was denying the world the next president or someone who found a cure for cancer.................

I've heard this too. Funny thing, you can always say to the person saying it, "I'll bet your parents said that about YOU. So why are you sitting at home with your oh-so-important playdate calendar and nappies, and not in a research laboratory somewhere? YOU were supposed to cure cancer - why are you passing the buck to the next generation? Your kids will probably do the same thing."

[Deep13]

53. It's selfish under the disfunctional, Christian definition.

Its the whole idea that one has no right to consider his or her own preferences or needs without risking ones soul. I think it is selfish with the understanding that being selfish is not a sin and is only unethical if it violates some duty towards someone else. There can never be a duty to a nonexistent person.

On the other hand, why do couples have multiple resources when they know the earth is greatly overcrowded and is facing disaster in the children's lifetime from global warming and other impending catastrophies? Some might call that selfish.

[NashVegas]

39. "Your Children Are Not Special"

"I've wiped entire civilizations off of my chest with a gym sock." - Bill Hicks

[graywarrior]

44. I made a choice to never have kids because

they would end up

HATING MY GUTS

[Bassic]

48. I hear ya

[Vilis Veritas]

56. I once carried a watermelon around for a week during

some bizarre experiment in HS. Got an F, because I dropped it. I told the teacher it was just a watermelon and she should lighten up. I think that is why I got the F.

Interesting point of fact. Drop a watermelon from 3-4 feet = broken watermelon. Drop a kid from 3-4 feet and all he does is ask you to "Do it again, Dad!" (at least my son does...kid is like a cat...)

Peace.

[Fire Walk With Me]

60. Because once, a child grew up to become Carrottop.

We're not willing to take that chance again. The risk is far too great.

[Chovexani]

64. Everyone annoys me, really

You could technically call me childfree but I don't think children are the bane of the species. I also don't think the world revolves around them.

I hold equal contempt for the screaming, wanky childfree types with their immature ME FIRST bullshit and parents who think their little darlings can do no wrong and feel the world owes them something simply because they bred. IOW, I hate entitlement, no matter where it's coming from.

People on all sides need to calm the hell down.

[datasuspect]

65. kids are alright, if they are baptized

otherwise they are simply pawns of satan and they will go to hell.

[Maine-ah]

78. actually we go to limbo......

[unpossibles]

67. I don't hate kids at all

although inconsiderate parents really get on my nerves.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

68. It's hard to hate kids when you're a kid yourself.

However, the idea that parents/kids should be held on some high pedestal for being able to conceive is obscene. So there has to be a happy medium, really.

[mitchum]

69. But...but...but...being procreative is just like being creative!

Is too!
Is too!
Is too!
:)

[Beaverhausen]

70. I like kids- when they have parents who know how to parent

If kids are bad, acting up in public and parents are ignoring them, it is annoying, but I don't really blame the kids. The fault there lies squarely with the parents.

by the way, your comparison to people in wheelchairs is really offensive to me. I have a friend with muscular dystrophy who can only move his fingers and lips. He has no choice.

[Pacifist Patriot]

74. Kids acting up in public...

Not always an option to remove. Sometimes the only thing you can do is ignore them (engaging enlivens them and escalates the situation...that's what they're counting on) and then rip into them when you are removed from the situation. I got trapped with my out of control children at a Walgreens recently because we absolutely had to wait to get their passport photos developed. It was all I could do to keep from bursting into tears. Hissing and grabbing was about all I could do and that was barely enough. I'm sure there were plenty of folks who thought I was ignoring their behavior. But I'm not about to swat my children (in any circumstance) or berate them in public to the point of humiliation. They got an earful in the car and had privileges for the rest of the day taken away. You really don't know what is happening behind the scenes.

I agree the wheelchair analogy is off base. I don't get the comparison at all.

[Beaverhausen]

76. I understand that - but some parents just ignore their kids altogether

At least you were trying to do something, as most parents are. Its the few who simply ignore their screaming, wailing little darlings that bug me.

Screaming, wailing, teenagers - now they should be taken out and shot!

[Pacifist Patriot]

72. I want just one person who thinks they know how to parent kids perfectly...

to take my kids to the grocery store just once.

I've also seen enough of parents and children to realize that there is rarely such a thing as hideous parents, perfect parents, hideous children or perfect children. My BIL and SIL are about as bad as it comes (in my opinion!) and two of their three kids are the easiest angels on the planet. I don't think I'm half bad and two of my three embarrass the crap out of me any time we are in public. Awesome respectful kids when in the home, but damn if they don't have a weird gene somewhere that inspires them to act like total shits around witnesses.

Strangely enough, the more expensive the establishment the better their behavior. Innate understanding I guess, but that still doesn't help me at Target or Subway.

I also do not embarrass my children in public. I remove them and discipline elsewhere rather than humiliate. Which of course leaves me wanting to cry when I'm trapped somewhere I absolutely have to be and cannot rip into them until after my business is transacted. And of course giving people the impression that I'm a permission poor excuse of a parent.

Children are a fact of life...better be or our species is doomed.

[idgiehkt]

73. I don't hate kids

I don't fall on one side or the other though. I am not someone who objects to children's existence, one of the 'shut that kid up' folks. Some people complain about them in movies, and the truth is that I never go to movies so I don't have that issue but I can understand those people who don't want to hear a baby crying through a movie.

I do think that the taxation system is geared toward married people with kids. It penalizes single people and gay people who *can't* get married. I didn't have an objection to mycritter's point in the thread the other day about being charged almost as much for the price of admission to a gym as a family of five. That seems off to me. I also don't think I should be taxed at a higher rate because I am single or have no kids. It is nothing against the people that do, it's just an antiquated system.

I have always been really good with kids. I think that they shouldn't be separated from culture as much as they are, and what happens when they are, like kids getting bullied in school, is complete b.s. that can warp a kid for life. It think humans are supposed to be together in small communities and kids need to be present and around more people of many different ages, rather than shunted off into their own age groups where a 'lord of the flies' mentality can develop.