I hate having to compromise my beliefs to survive

[lizziegrace]

All employees were asked to sign a petition. I disagree with the language of the petition. Strongly. I was then informed that it is now a "condition of employment". I hate working in an at-will state.

What would you have done (assuming you like things like heat, a roof over your head and food)?

[MrCoffee]

1. what was the subject of the petition?

[lizziegrace]

4. Remember, these are my beliefs

it was a petition against a law that would not allow individuals under 18 to go to tanning salons unless the child had a parent's okay. The petition wants to remove both the age requirement and parental consent.

Skin cancer runs in my family. My own daughter burns very easily.

on edit - I didn't sign my legal name. ;)

[MrCoffee]

8. i asked because a material alteration in a term or condition of employment

that is discriminatory is illegal. however, this doesn't quite reach the point of being discriminatory. it sucks that they made you sign something you disagree with.

[lizziegrace]

9. Yeah

I agree with you. It sucks. I realize I didn't sign an oath promising to vote Republican, but it still is unsettling.

[MrCoffee]

11. you don't work in a tanning salon, do you?

it's strange that your employer would take such an interest in tanning salon regulation. maybe whoever you work for has an interest in a tanning salon.

[lizziegrace]

16. I can't go into the details

but there is an interest in this particular bill.

[MrCoffee]

19. i understand...it's still an odd thing to make a condition of employment

why risk antagonizing employees over it? unless there's a major financial stake, and even with a major financial stake, it sounds like a really dumb idea to force employees to sign tanning salon petition.


anyway, sorry they made you do that.

i've never written the words "tanning salon" so much in my life as i have in this thread. so i've got that going for me.

[Deep13]

23. I would follow up with a letter to whomever the petition directed...

...saying you oppose the measure and that your signature was coerced.

[MrCoffee]

25. that is an outstanding idea.

[ThomCat]

2. That depends. What was the petition for?

If it's promoting a really rancid cause, perhaps you might be able to notify the people on the good side that their opposition is coercing signatures.

:hug:

[lizziegrace]

5. In the big picture

it may not seem like a big deal. But skin cancer doesn't show up for years and it can be prevented. :(

[ThomCat]

15. Ah, pushing against regulations that might help people?

Companies love to push their weight around this way. I can only hope that everyone will know that the petition is full of paid signatures, one way or another.

I'm sorry you have to do that. Please don't beat yourself up. You need to work.

If you get a chance to speak up about skin cancer prevention then you might be able to do far more good for the cause, and more than balance any impact that your signature had.

:)

[rug]

3. This is analogous to voting for Bush as a condition of employment.

I doubt it's legal.

[Orrex]

7. Tough call (on edit: "Tough" only because I misread it)

Not sure if one's opinion re: minors in tanning booths ranks up there, Constitutionally-speaking, with the right to cast one's vote in a Presidential election free from duress and/or coercion.

Anyway, you make a great point, but this sort of us-and-them analysis goes on all the time in the corporate world.

on edit: please disregard the above! I misread the OP and posted prior to achieving comprehension. I'd delete it, but then who would ever learn?

[rug]

10. Suppose it was a petition to sell cigarettes to 18 year-olds?

Or to require parental notifcatrion for abortions?

These employment-at-will assholes frequently overreach. The problem is, when called on it, they shift to another reason.

[Orrex]

12. Doh! Forget that--I totally misread the post!!

What a dumbass.

You're right, of course. I was thinking that the poll was gathering opinions on corporate policy, rather than pushing a legislative agenda.

Oops.

[MrCoffee]

13. there's no Constitutional prohibition against those petitions

and there's no legal recourse for being fired for refusing to sign them.

[billyskank]

18. That's fucked up.

[MrCoffee]

21. that's what failure to acknowledge wage slavery will lead to

it drives me insane that people who can't afford to quit and look for another job have to put up with crap like this. i worked at a job years ago that i literally couldn't afford to miss a day of or i'd have been out on the street. i had to go to work sick as hell because there was no sick leave. i couldn't look for a new job because i couldn't afford the time off to interview.

[rug]

20. Don't be so sure. Many of the civil rights statutes are directed against private actors.

Are you saying a boss who prohibits a worker from signing a petition as a condition of employment cannot be brought to court? Freedom of speech is as protected as voting and a private actor who conspires to thwart it, particularly if it is utterly unrelated to the employment, is accountable.

Employment-at-will statutes are not blank checks. Assuming you could prove the firing is directly related to a person's exercise of numerous liberties, there are remedies, including private tort actions.

[MrCoffee]

22. i'm positive...there's no employment discrimination here.

unfortunately for lizziegrace, there's no protected employment category for those opposed to underage tanning. it's not a distinct characteristic. she's in an employment at-will state, which essentially means that her employer can fire her for a good reason (like stealing), a bad reason (we don't like your haircut), or no reason at all. as long as it's not discriminatory (which generally means a statutorily protected category (i.e. race, gender, religion)), the employer can simply fire her.

if signing the petiiton is a condition of employment, failure to meet a condition of employment is generally just cause for termination. as long as the condition in question is not discriminatory, there's not much to be done.

[rug]

27. So, can her employer force her to sign a petition to lower the age of tobacco sales

or a petition to attack Iran or a petition supporting the KKK?

[MrCoffee]

28. the KKK one might not fly

but the other two, they can. it sucks, and it's morally wrong, but not legally wrong.

[rug]

31. Now wait a minute. If they told you to wear a pancake on your head, that is legal?

[Pale Blue Dot]

6. I worked for a retail company for years that was strongly anti-union.

All managers were required to take anti-union training and were shown an anti-union propaganda film. At the time, I sucked it up.

Now I'm out of retail, I'm teacher middle-school kids, and I'm a proud Union member!

On edit: saw your answer above. :-)

[LanternWaste]

14. I would've misspelled my name.

I would've misspelled my name. A misspelling with plausible deniability in case I get called on it, yet clever enough that I could imagine it sticking to "the man" in the ever so funny and dramatic sit-com that runs through my head every night.

CUT TO: THE MAN at his desk reading his newly finished petition. THE MAN gets to my name, looks to camera and yells, "Lannnteerrrrnnnn Waaassssttteeee!!!!!! You did it to me again!"


(Yes-- I'm going to see my imaginary therapist after work tonight-- no worries)

[lizziegrace]

17. I didn't sign my legal name

;)

If that helps any.

[jberryhill]

34. No

If you make a mark on a document objectively indicating that mark to be your signature, it is your signature. There are plenty of illiterate people who sign things.

I like the idea of separately contacting whomever is to receive the petition, to tell them your signature was coerced.

[Bucky]

24. In a well armed society, no one could force you to sign a petition you didn't agree with

They'd only ask nicely and then move on when you said "no thanks." Guns solve every problem.

[JVS]

26. hell yeah

[Skittles]

29. ?

that does not sound legal to me

[Mike03]

30. The honest answer is that in the past, I did compromise

When I was a young and struggling writer I tried to conform to meet the expectations of others. It took me a long time, and many years of maturing, and experiencing tragedies, and gaining self confidence, to begin to reject that way of being. It's dishonest when people say money doesn't matter, because when I was poor and struggling to find my place in the entertainment industry, I did want to please people--but that co-existed with my own passion, so I did not ever feel like a fraud. But as I matured, I began to see the hollowness of it, and was fortunate enough to be able to get out. But If that had not happened, I don't know what I would have done. We all draw a line somewhere, but we also have an innate desire to survive. I don't like to judge others. Our lives are all so different, and influenced by circumstances that are difficult to even describe or account for sometimes.

Best of luck

Mike

[Breeze54]

32. It was a "condition of employment" that you sign it? BS!!!

They can't make you sign a petition!

Tell them to &^%$##@@#$%%%!!

[lizziegrace]

33. I'd like to

but in an at-will state, they'd fire me so fast my head would spin. I have a daughter in college and am a single parent.

[Breeze54]

36. But then you could sue them and make out

like a bandit for them compromising your rights! It's one thing to have rules at a job
and quite another to make someone sign a petition as a condition of employment, imho
(I'm not a lawyer)

I took a part-time job one time and was told on my first day that it was "required" that
I contribute out of my paycheck to United Way! "All the employee's do it!"

Not that I'm against United Way but who are they to tell me I "should" donate?

It wasn't "enforced" but the guy sat there and watched what box I checked off!

I checked United Way but only donated .10 per paycheck to spite them!! :grr:

I left that crappy job after 23 hours!! :rofl:

[Mike03]

35. Really Important Thread

I almost wish it was cross posted in GD, because it would be fascinating to read this very difficult issue debated, to get all sides and views. My life is touched by this issue of compromise every day, and I never know what to do.