I spent all day helping some paperless travelers. Ask me anything.

[Kali]

:patriot:

[achtung_circus]

1. Explain, please

they needed the 4th estate?

[Kali]

3. heh - no that would probably be the last thing they would want

Scary brown people from the south without the proper documents. They were a-skeering the neighbors, what with not having eaten in 2 days during the 60 mile hike from the "secure' border. (or at least the 20 or so from where they were probably dropped off - they aren't real keen on giving those kind of details and my Spanish is of the "barely get by" variety)

I brought them to a safer spot, fed and watered them, let them get cleaned up and use the phone. Then the all day wait for the system to get their ride organized and located to pick them up (with the obvious stall till almost dark when traveling is safer. On to Phoenix and then apparently to Virginia.

edited for spelling, typos

[achtung_circus]

4. Well, there you go Kali

being humane again. It's going to get you a reputation, you know.

[Kali]

6. yeah don't want that to happen

I need to do like my Grampa and take a shot at some local (like a lineman or a meter reader) so they can go spread it around.

Never shoot at a stranger - they won't tell anybody :rofl:

[achtung_circus]

7. Part I of my sig nt

[Ptah]

2. Not an easy task. Good on you.

:patriot:

[Kali]

5. What can you do?

I don't like all the organized crime aspect of it - in the old days it really was randome folks on foot, now it is big buisiness thanks to the typical consequence of "Wars on ________"

On the other hand I have broken down in Mexico and been overwhelmed by the help and generosity so how can I not help? They were almost in tears with gratitude so I told them hey, yes there are a lot of assholes in this country - especially our presidente, but not all of us.

[Ptah]

8. What a country battleax you are.

:thumbsup:

[ThomCat]

9. Good for you!

:thumbsup:

[Wcross]

10. You could also look at it as aiding & abetting. (misdemeanor)

Or if the "paperless travelers" had been deported once you aided & abetted a felony. Not to mention they are not "travelers" at all but settlers. They will set up a home and live here in the united states. They will work hard and achieve the American dream. Unfortunately many more will follow and Americans will start noticing that their wages are stagnent. The endless supply of labor depresses wages, increases corporate profits & and discourages any enforcement of our immigration laws. Immigration hurts the working poor.
Thanks a lot Kali.

[Kali]

11. oh well, it helps to barely balance the scale for what we have wrought on the rest of the world

you could be wrong - maybe something entirely different will happen. (I know some stay but all the Mexicans I know who have worked here or had family working here preferred to go home to Mexico.)

Oh - and feeding hungry people and letting them use a phone is not a chargeable offense. You are ARE wrong about that.

[Kali]

12. Wcross

Normally I would just let something like this go, but for some reason your reply bothered me all night. Maybe it was because yesterday I faced the issue on that personal level that forces you to make decisions that are human and not based in legalities or politics.

I'm not articulate enough to convey the disgust I feel for the policies and attitudes that generate the racist and xenophobic reactions many in this country have to Mexican and other poor migrants (or immigrants if you prefer), but I do know this same scenario has been repeated over and over with the results never being as dire as the fear would have it. (With the possible exception of the second wave of human migration to this continent - I think the first migrants are still having trouble recovering from that)

There is an old saying "Think global, act local" Sometimes the two are in conflict. When someone is lost, scared, tired, and hungry I am one of those suckers who can't be bothered with the big picture at that point. It boils down to a very simplistic reaction - I have to help.

In terms of actually looking at the big picture I tend to go really big and see beyond borders, so I look at what sorts of causes and effects are happening beyond my own country's doorstep. Beyond what "illegal" workers may or may not be doing to one country's wage structure. And beyond the first generation as well.

I don't think this is really saying what I wanted to say, but I had to say a little more!

[crispini]

13. When hungry human beings are around, feed 'em.

You did the good thing.

:hug:

[gateley]

14. I'm with you, Kali -- this is beyond politics and border wars. When you help feed

and clothe a fellow human being in need, you are saintly.

I remember a story from school (Catholic) which made a deep impression on me. Practically the only thing that did.

It's loosely that a leper came to Damien and asked for help, and Damien physically opened his arms and embraced the leper out of love for him. I was just humbled by such love.

When I read that, and now when I read of your actions, I am so filled and desperately hopeful that I would feel the same toward those in need as you and Damien did.

You glow, honey!

And Kali is my all-time favorite goddess, so there you have it!

[achtung_circus]

15. WOW

You go, girl.

:hi: :yourock:

[Wcross]

17. On a human level you should help.

On a larger scale unlimited immigration of low skilled labor harms our working poor. When you increase the supply of labor the cost (wages) decreases. Also, wages paid to these workers do not have the same impact on our economy as wages paid to native born or naturalized citizens.

Mexico (with a total of $23bn), Brazil ($7bn) and Colombia ($4bn) receive most remittances, but the flows are especially beneficial for the poorer and more marginal countries of Central America and the Caribbean, where they account for more than 10 per cent of GDP in many cases.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f94e4d5c-d32b-11db-829f-000b5df10621.html

Cheap labor is good for corporations. It is good for the economies of the countries who export people. It is bad for our citizens. Just wait til your profession starts hiring "unpapered" travelers, you will understand why it is bad policy to not enforce immigration laws.

[Kali]

18. You picked a bad example. My profession IS one of the original hire-ers

I am in agriculture. I am not able to hire good Mexican cowboys anymore (like my Grandfather did) partly because Mexico is abandoning small farm/ranch ag in favor of mega corp farming (- much of the land in Northern Mexico is being leased by Americans did you know that?) another factor driving the migration, by the way.

It is becoming an urbanized country, much like this one. (less than 2% now growing food for the entire US) And like here, they are losing the knowledge and skills those men once used.

[skygazer]

16. Where did your ancestors come from?

The same thing was said about a lot of my ancestors who were Irish. Or the ones who came later who were Italian.

It was used as an excuse for not freeing the slaves. It was used as an excuse for excluding the Chinese.

Sorry, I don't buy it. Immigration built this country and legal or illegal, the jobs the new immigrants do have always been the low-paid, thankless labor it still is. Immigrants aren't the ones screwing up the economy - rich assholes in power are.