District Fires Vegan Art Teacher

[datasuspect]

District fires vegan art teacher
Board: Pupils asked to keep lessons quiet

By Jeff Long | Tribune staff reporter
September 25, 2007

Dave Warwak said he wouldn't return to the classroom unless Fox River Grove Middle School served only lunches free of animal products, but with meat still on the menu, school officials on Monday fired the art teacher.

"We are not going to go vegan at this time," said Pat Hughes, president of the Fox River Grove School District 3 School Board.

The board, which voted 7-0 to fire Warwak, said in a prepared statement that he told pupils not to tell their parents, teachers or the school's principal what he was teaching and that he repeatedly refused to answer questions from school officials on that subject.

The statement also said Warwak converted his art classes into classes on veganism and animal rights.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-vegan_25sep25,0,7661990.story?coll=chi_tab01_layout

[mitchum]

1. I imagine those kids were getting really bored with just studying "The Potato Eaters"...

over and over and over again.

[mainegreen]

2. Good. His actions were inappropriate.

[LibraLiz1973]

87. I agree. He was BEGGING to be fired

Just because your a vegan, or a meat eater, does not mean everyone else has to do so.

[IndianaJones]

3. what is it with the vegans.....nt.

[unpossibles]

6. I'm kind of sick of saying this

but I find that disrespectful. You would not say that about any other group of people, would you?

[IndianaJones]

8. sure...if they acted like vegans. nt.

[unpossibles]

11. those damn uppity vegans, just trying to do what they feel is right

how dare they!

(and no, I am not supporting this teacher, because I don't.)

[IndianaJones]

15. exactly how I feel, except I support the teacher. nt.

[Clintonista2]

35. LOL!

[midlife_mo_Jo]

74. YOU SUPPORT THE TEACHER? HUH?

He's using art class time to preach his beliefs, and telling the students, "Don't tell your parents?" :puke:

Any teacher who says that about anything except what the kids are making for "holiday" presents for me deserves to be fired.

I have absolutely NO PITY for this man. :nopity: :nopity:

[Deep13]

9. It's a cult mentality.

If you accept that using animal products is murderous, then just about anything is justified in stopping it including the hijacking of classrooms and bombing medical labs.

[datasuspect]

13. if you claim "killing" an animal is "murder"

then i can see what you mean.

but in realityland, only human beings get murdered.

that's why it's called HOMicide, from the latin root, homo, which means man.

[Deep13]

16. Hey, I'm not the one making the claim.

Read some of Ingrid Newkirk's writings and speeches for examples of that.

[datasuspect]

17. i'm not impugning you

just more or less agreeing.

how's it going?

[Deep13]

18. I must have been distracted by your scary skull avatar.

spooky. :scared:


Edit for spelling. No "e" in scary.

[youthere]

51. This was not "the vegans" this was one asshole who happened to BE a vegan.

[IndianaJones]

54. seems like part of a disturbing trend to me. nt

[LanternWaste]

83. There have been more instances

There have been more instances of teacher's pushing dietary beliefs on their students?

[gmoney]

59. Well, he was being assholish ABOUT veganism

If they'd fired him for stealing office supplies, then tried to make it about "all vegans steal office supplies" then I'd see your point.

But pushing his personal beliefs in place of teaching the cirriculum, and telling the students not to tell their parents, is pretty assholic. If it had been Dianetics or Flat Earth or Amway, he would still deserve to be fired.

[youthere]

88. I absolutely agree...

The point I was trying to make is that it was not veganism that was the problem, it was just the fact that this guy was an ass. I imagine if he'd been born-again he would have just as big a dick about religion. The OP seemed to infer that it was veganism that was the problem and I say its this guy that is the problem. His job was to teach art...period.

[LanternWaste]

82. Wouldn't it be more...

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to ask, "What is it with this guy?"

I hang out with five vegans, and each one appears to me to be individuals and unique...

[greatauntoftriplets]

4. I read that.

He certainly wasn't doing what the district had hired him to do -- teach art to kids.

:popcorn:

[datasuspect]

20. artmeat

hats of meat!!!!


http://www.hatsofmeat.com/

[unpossibles]

81. more meat art

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28231

hahaha....

[unpossibles]

5. first of all

this is an old subject that has been hashed over more than once.

Secondly, even though I am not a vegan, I hate when articles like this make all vegans/vegetarians look like nut cases.

Thirdly, I think you are posting this on purpose to do the same. Congratulations.

[datasuspect]

10. it is a newspaper article

i WILL post a newspaper article from a mainstream major city paper. the article didn't make him look like a nutcase. the teacher handled that job perfectly by himself.

the article was NOT an editorial.

and yes, the guy sounds like a nutcase.

[unpossibles]

12. the guy is a nutcase likely

the point was that this exact article was already posted here.

[datasuspect]

14. combing the lounge for duplicates isn't high on my list of priorities

but you can feel free to ignore the thread.

thanks for participating though.

[kay1864]

38. Where was this posted in the Lounge?

A search on "Warwak" yields only this very thread.

[unpossibles]

39. ok, maybe it was not in the lounge

but it was on DU.

Sorry. Maybe you can crucify me for not wanting to have the same argument over and over.

I'm made of meat too, if you're hungry.

[kay1864]

43. I'm not the OP

But I'm glad you see that the "this exact article" was not posted here in the Lounge.

[unpossibles]

44. it was posted here, just the DU "here", not the lounge "here"

two can be smart asses.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1800068

enjoy. Sorry - I should have just said "dupe" - I must have a bad case of the weekdays, and I am sick of everyone pointing out how vegans are all crazy assholes or something similar. And no, I am not a vegan.

[kay1864]

45. Now you're just being unreasonable

1. Posters are supposed to check for dupes in the forum they're posting in, not all of DU. So the OP isn't a "dupe".

2. That post you cite isn't the "exact article", but rather one from two weeks ago.

[skygazer]

46. It's more fun to be unreasonable

than it is to simply ignore the thread. Haven't you learned that yet? :P

[kay1864]

48. True dat

Some people like grasping at straws :P

[unpossibles]

50. you're right

I am completely imagining all of the anti-vegan sentiment displayed on this page and on this site in general. My bad. Must be some sort of low-iron thing messing up my eyes. Perhaps if I roll them around a bit first.

:eyes:

there. that's better. Thanks for being so superior to me! I need someones smarts to tells me whats to do mores oftenin!

[appal_jack]

65. ...other people like chewing on them!

damn vegans can just go graze out back.



:sarcasm:

but I do think that a vegan demanding that a whole school converts to his pet cause is a tad over the top.

:hide:

-app

[datasuspect]

47. no one is saying "ALL"

you are inserting that qualifier into the discourse.

[unpossibles]

68. I'm sorry but saying "vegans are nuts n/t" or something similar

may not have the word "all" in it, but obviously may as well.

I'm just sick of it. And for the record, I would have said the same thing to someone who said "Christians are nuts" based on the behavior of one bad Christian, even though I am not one.

[Shell Beau]

63. There you go again with a silly comment!

Why do you keep equating human meat to animal meat?

Why is this article not okay, and the one about not eating pigs is okay?

[unpossibles]

69. humans are animals

I am made of meat, and apparently I am not very smart, thus I must be acceptable as food.

I am sorry if that offends you.

[Shell Beau]

71. You are acceptable as food to animals! Don't you wish they

were as kind as you?

Please, if you want to equate eating a human to eating an animal, then go ahead. :crazy:

[unpossibles]

73. but humans are animals

there is no denying it. I can be eaten by a carnivore quite easily. In fact, I've heard people taste a lot like pork.

But we are biologically animals. Ok, what about cute non-human animals. Would you eat a kitten? is that more palatable? I just figured babies would be more acceptable to many since they are not very smart yet, and the meat is still tender.

[Shell Beau]

75. I am in fact an animal lover. You may find that hard to believe

since I eat meat. I know lots and lots about animals. We can go round and round here.

How about this, since you have said you aren't Christian, why don't I use the same tactics you are using now to convert you to Christianity? Have you accepted Jesus as your personal savior? Don't you want to go to Heaven too?


See, I probably sound as silly as you do.



And if I had posted yesterday the top 10 reasons you should convert to Christianity, oh boy that would have been a doozy!

[unpossibles]

76. I firmly believe you are an animal lover

I don't see a discrepency there at all, quite honestly. I know I am being a smart-ass, but I did not originally give up meat for animal rights reasons, and have been a lifelong animal person - taking in rescues, helping others with adoptions, etc. I stopped eating meat because it began to gross me out when I worked in restaurants.

The difference is, if you posted a 10 reasons you should convert to Christianity thread, how many times would it be acceptable for someone (I know it wasn't you, and don't mean to sound like I am attacking you, honestly) to say "all Christians are nuts" or whatever? Yes, I believe that someone would probably say it, but it would not be considered acceptable, would it? Maybe I am wrong and am being too sensitive.

Anyway, I do apologize for being an ass. I've been pretty busy and stressed out, and I guess I just got tired of all the anti-vegetarian snark I've encountered over the last 17 years and decided (wrongly) to give some back. No hard feelings on this end. I am obviously (I hope) not advocating cannibalism nor am I equating meat eating with said practice, but it's what popped into my head after seeing 20-odd responses to that thread which said "because it's good!" or "animals are made out of meat!"

[skygazer]

90. We call christians nuts here all the time

And rightly so - they ARE nuts. And plenty of people here not only find that an acceptable thing to say but will add a great deal to it.

I don't know why it would surprise you that people would answer the pig question with remarks like "because its good" or "animals are made out of meat." Since the vast majority of people in this country eat meat, that's only to be expected.

If you only want replies that agree with your opinion, I suggest you post things guaranteed to get that result - like anti-Carrot Top threads.

[Deep13]

80. Yes, but the reverse is often not true. nt

[Kali]

7. bwahahahhahaha

a lame attempt at blackmailing your employers into converting to your point of view - way to go, way to "educate"

"if you don't do what I want I'm not coming to work" OKAAAAY ... see ya!

what a moran

[DS1]

19. okay

He's not returning to classes with meat still on the menu, sounds like he got what he wanted :)

[cobalt1999]

21. He better be glad my kids were not in his class

He'd find that getting fired is easier.

I won't condemn all vegans, as he is part of a small group of radical vegans that want to "educate" the rest of us and sit around thinking about what the best strategy is in order to change the world to their viewpoint/values system.

[IndianaJones]

23. radical vegans...lol. nt.

[datasuspect]

26. any flavor of fundamentalism

that is, any belief system or morality taken to illogical extremes can be the basis for radicalism.

and yes, there are fundamentalist vegans. whenever you place yourself above others in such way that if a class of people live outside your doctrinal purity (and the implication is that a meat eater is INFERIOR), you might be a fundamentalist.

[GoneOffShore]

28. Mmmm

:popcorn: with REAL butter!

Yummy.

Anybody got any :beer: ?

[MrCoffee]

27. i don't give a shit about pro-vegan or anti-vegan

i don't give a shit about pro-vegan or anti-vegan. he was hired to teach art. anything "not art" would therefore be grounds for termination.

the dumbass was supposed to teach art, and he didn't. if he was in there teaching american government and why Chimpy should be impeached and why the war in Iraq is wrong, he should still have been fired, because that ain't art.

[datasuspect]

30. that's pretty much my read on it

proportion is everything

[Clintonista2]

36. I agree 100%, and I've had teachers like him before

The kind that are supposed to be teaching math, but go off on a tangent for 45 minutes about the origin of (insert non-math related subject here). At least when the final exam comes, I'll know the origin of (insert non-math related subject here)!

[skygazer]

22. Rather a disingenuous headline

He wasn't fired because he's vegan, he was fired because he was an asshole. But what do you expect from the good ol' free press?

[datasuspect]

24. i didn't read it that way

the headline says he is a "vegan art teacher." it didn't say he was fired BECAUSE he is vegan.

pretty big difference there.

[skygazer]

29. No, but it implies that he was

Why else would they place it in the headline? To catch the eye, to generate interest, just like it did here in the Lounge. :rofl:

The article makes it clear that he was fired because he behaved like a fucking moran but the headline certainly implies a different thing.

[Oeditpus Rex]

72. Damned activist copy editors

The original hed was "District fires fucking moran art teacher."

MUCH more apt.

[greatauntoftriplets]

25. And that was the Tribune's headline.

n/t

[american_typeculture]

31. The Altairans are in an uproar over this.

[Clintonista2]

32. Well, at least he wasn't a nudist...

[datasuspect]

34. hee hee

let me teach you all the ways of nekkidness

[gmoney]

60. At least it would have been somewhat relevant to art...

My life would be SO much easier if people weren't so parochial about nudity... I could shoot in all the cool outdoor locations (discretely) without the fear of being arrested because some prude 100 yards away saw a nude butt.

[philosophie_en_rose]

33. Good. He deserved to be fired.

I think it's important to challenge kids to think about the world and their beliefs, but it's not okay to use the classroom for a personal agenda. And - while I think it's admirable to promote vegan options - I don't think it's reasonable to require that everyone is vegan.

[SacredCow]

40. Right....

He really wasn't behaving any differently than a rabid fundie, shoving his personal beliefs down the collective throats of others whether they were interested or not.

He took a stand for his beliefs, which I suppose is admirable; however, he got himself fired for it. He's the only one to answer whether it was a worthwhile fight.

[hyphenate]

37. Even the most radical vegans

and vegetarians I know would never do something like this. Most of them take the reality stance that they are in the minority, and that it is going to be a long time before things change in that regard. The point behind it is that once again, that minority is being maligned as usual, with the obvious point that "all" vegans are whackos.

We've seen this in every facet of our lives for the past 30 or so years--if you have a different opinion from the majority of people, you are somehow inferior to them.

Let's face it: many people are so terrified and paranoid about a different viewpoint that they intend to silence every single one who holds that different opinion.

To the extreme right, I guess the ultimate enemy is a gay, vegan, liberal, atheist minority woman who has had an abortion and takes bith control pills. And all THIS from a so-called "compassionate conservative."

[unpossibles]

41. please stop injecting logic into this thread meant to debase people

I mean, Hitler was a vegetarian*!!!1! Look what he did!

:eyes:



* he wasn't really, btw.

[DS1]

49. and as the OP stated, you can always ignore the thread if you don't like it

a concept the OP will never understand, but that's for another argument :)

[datasuspect]

55. please don't misunderstand

discernment is one thing (and yes, i actually DO understand - it's rather idiotic of you to make any statement regarding the condition of my understanding, but that's for another argument). and trust me, i don't even want to go in a negative direction with you, as i have no beef with you, but i can't let your presumptive statement pass.

and i am EMPHATICALLY NOT saying you are an idiot, you just made an idiotic statement.


sometimes it's just plain fun to stir up the monkey cage.

anyway, thanks for participating.

[Dangerously Amused]

64. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[Mendocino]

85. Hitler was also presented as an atheist.

He wasn't. But some characterize him as one, an evil atheistic vegetarian. Sheesh!

[mike_c]

42. this is a blow against veg-o-fascist terrorism....

That is all.

[yewberry]

52. Sounds like he deserved it.

I don't think I'll read the rest of the thread. I doubt it'll be long before the same people start posting their "mmm, bacon" responses, if it hasn't started already.

[cobalt1999]

53. mmm, bacon...

Sorry, couldn't resist. :hi:

[MrCoffee]

56. where's the bacon?

mmmmmmm...bacon.

[no name no slogan]

57. Obviously he's never heard of the FOOD CHAIN

[unpossibles]

67. and where do bacteria, viruses, parasites, etc.

fit into that alleged chain? I assume you mean because it's natural, that we should let bacteria eat us? That's pretty harsh.

[Dukkha]

77. If a cow would get the chance it would eat you and everyone you care about.

When I grow up I'm going to graduate at bovine university!

[no name no slogan]

86. Your friend must be a "Grade A" moran if she believes that

Now help yourself to some delicious tripe

[rug]

58. Now who's teaching tempera techniques?

[jobycom]

61. That article is so fucked up I can't decide who to hate!

There's not real information on what the teacher was doing, how often he was doing it, what raised the complaints that got him fired, or anything else worth forming an opinion over. Some teacher got fired for doing something a school board didn't like. It involved making vegan-ista comments, maybe. There's not counterpoint from the teacher, no discussion of what the students or parents thought, only one actual comment the teacher supposedly said to a parent (we don't know if the parent was quoted accurately, or whether the parent quoted the teacher accurately, or what).

This could be a case of a radical using his teaching time to preach a message completely unrelated to his subject, or this could be a case of a teacher dropping a few one-liners during class about veganism and answering a couple of questions. But who can tell? The article is ridiculously uninformative, and clearly written to provide a "balanced and controversial" story so a bunch of people can fly off the handle on a subject we know nothing about (at least from this article).

I don't know enough whether to blame the school board for a medieval reaction against new ideas, or the teacher for having delusions of being the Che Guevara of the animal kingdom.

I guess I'll just hate the reporter and editor. They are the only ones I can be sure didn't do their jobs properly.

[redqueen]

62. "I guess I'll just hate the reporter and editor. ..."

Ain't that so often the case these days?

'Journalists' my ass...

[datasuspect]

66. i guess that's what distinguishes an article from an exegesis

[jobycom]

70. What do former messiahs have to do with anything?

[midlife_mo_Jo]

78. There's not real information on what the teacher was doing?

Well, if he was threatening to leave unless the school cafeteria changed it's menu to all vegan, I think we can pretty much believe the rest of the article that states that he was preaching in the classroom and telling the kids not to tell their parents. It kind of fits his radicalism.

[dropkickpa]

79. It is NOT acceptable

that a teacher ask my child to keep something that happened in class a secret. Beyond my angry-ass flipping out on him, the school board would definitely be hearing (at high volume) a lot from me, no matter what the secret is, and I would ask what other types of secrets is he asking students to not tell their parents about.

Mister "I've been a vegan for 9 months!!!" would get his ass kicked. I do not accept anyone preaching to my child, be it about god, country, or food, especially in a public school setting.

[pitohui]

84. sounds like a mental health issue

until his problem is under control he's going to have problems keeping any job

i hope he gets the help he needs

[NaturalHigh]

89. If he refuses to return to the classroom...

then to me, it's more like he quit rather than being fired. He just forced them to take action against him rather than resigning. I would imagine he's planning to sue, but I can't see that he has a legal leg to stand on.

Standing up for your beliefs is admirable (and necessary). Forcing them onto your students is not.