Why do I even freaking care?

[mzteris]

As some of you may know, my husband I separated about 5 months ago (after being together 17 years). He waited about 5 minutes to start dating. And now he's out nailing anything in sight.

I've said I don't plan to "get back together" so he feels totally justified. But hey, if I want him back then he'll move back in. No? Ok - off on the 'date', then.

:wtf: I can't even begin to wrap my head around that. You WANT to get back together with me, but oh well what the heck just get alittle (a lot) in the meantime. ??

If YOU REALLY WANTED TO RECONCILE - do you think DATING is the way to go about doing that??

I really don't want to reconcile, (a lot due to his completely boorish behaviour over the course of the years) but, I think it's completely disrepectful to our marriage in general. To our kid's and their view of marriage/parents - not to mention setting a bad example as far as reasonable adult/responsible behaviour.

And it just f'ing hurts. I don't know why. It just reaally pisses me off. I know we had problems for a long damn time - but still. jhfc - can't you keep your gd pants on for a few months at least???

Grow the f up. Life is NOT about gettin' some. Maybe if you had've cared more about the relationship in total rather than your _______ - we MIGHT could have made this work. BUt NOOOOOOOOO - it was always about *that* like it was the only gd thing that f'ing mattered.

Oh - and suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure you'd be "okay" with my dating. Yeah. Right. Sure. You'd f'ing go ballistic and we both know it.





Ok - so I've completely bared my soul to the Lounge. Something I swore I'd never do. But gdit I feel like I'm totally losing it. Somebody give me some perspective. Something.

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. I guess I could give you perspective on my way out the door.

My soul is ripped in two. I can't breathe. At any moment it feels as if my heart will burst from missing my husband. Were we perfect? Not by a long shot. But he was my best friend and my everything. I once threatened to leave him...and then I couldn't do it. Why? Because I loved him.

Please...if you want to move on, move on. But if you are hurting because there are feelings there, see a counselor together. mzteris, sometimes splitting up is the right thing to do, but sometimes we end up with too many regrets. For me, make sure you are sure.

Take care,

Laura

[mzteris]

5. oh Mrs G

I'm sorry if my post has brought you any more pain.

If he'd've gone to a counselor - like I've begged for the last 15 years - then maybe it could have worked.

It was my counselor who gave me the strength to let him go. He threatened me with leaving me for our entire marriage. I guess I will always love him but I just can't deal with his issues anymore.



Thank you for taking the time to answer this.

[Connonym]

2. sounds like he's really insecure

maybe it's about getting some, maybe not but it sounds to me like he's insecure and needs to "be with" someone to be okay. It's a reflection of his own issues and I would encourage you to try to not take it personally (I know that sounds really stupid -- how can it NOT be personal?). :hug: As much as I'd like to see the beauty in love, most of the time it seems to me that romantic relationships are far more painful than they're worth.

[mzteris]

6. oh yeah -

I understand his "issues" really, I do. I guess that's why I put up with them for as long as I have. But to watch him just blithely "move on" like I was NOTHING?

I don't think I'll ever ever ever fall in love again.

[MissMillie]

15. It doesn't sound to me like he thinks you're nothing

it does sound to me like he thinks the women he's banging are nothing.

[mzteris]

18. I think he thinks ALL women are

nothing but something to ----.

[Connonym]

23. I concur with that

It's his way of dealing with the pain of losing you. This is sort of what I meant when I said it's not personal.

I suck at relationships. I wish I had some really good advice but I don't. The only thing I can say for sure is that I've been hurt a lot and, as awful as it feels while it's happening, there really will come a day when you'll be able to look back on it and it won't hurt so much.

[mzteris]

28. I don't think of it that way -

I don't think he feels any pain at all in "losing me". Maybe he does. but that's definitely not the way to show it!

If he feels pain, it's for losing his "FAMILY" and that imaginary life he thought he was supposed to have with the perfect wife, children, dogs, house, and yard.

[MissMillie]

35. well, that's not the way YOU show it

I can understand why it would hurt your feelings, surely.

You said it yourself that he thinks all women are just for screwing. So don't take this personally. It's obviously NOT personal.

If he is as you say he is, it's possible he's not capable of personal.

[redqueen]

36. So he gets a pass for ignoring mzteris' feelings?

That doesn't pass my smell test...

[MissMillie]

39. that's certainly not what I meant to imply

and I apologize for not being clearer.

Trust me... I am one person who would NEVER suggest that anyone should ignore anyone else's feelings--especially the feelings of people they profess to love.

mzteris seems to have a pretty good grasp on what her husband is. According to her he doesn't care about any women (she said that he just uses them to ----.) That is a horrible realization to come to after 17 years of marriage. But now that she's come to it, she needs to take it one step further... that his actions are indeed NOT PERSONAL. He would treat any other woman the same way.

His behavior isn't about her (and yes, that in itself is very sad) it's about him and what he is.

[redqueen]

43. Oh, sorry... I see what you're saying now...

:hi:

[Haole Girl]

3. Men think with their dicks.

Sorry guys, but it's the truth.

[mzteris]

7. you got that right.

it's always been about his d - - - .

[ThomCat]

12. Yes, that is true, to a pretty big extent.

:(

[Deep13]

13. As long as I don't have to type with it.

:hide:

[Gormy Cuss]

17. No, only some men.

Mature men don't let the mini-me do all their thinking for them.

[redqueen]

37. Responses like yours give me hope.

:)

[lildreamer316]

44. Agreed.

My husband thinks sex is important.
He does NOT think it is all-encompassing.
He would rather not have sex if I don't feel like it, and ask me what is wrong, and how can he help.
He is utterly faithful, and very considerate. I am a lucky, lucky lady.
And because of all of the above, it makes me love, and desire, him even more.

When will other men realize that when they understand that sex has its' place, but is not the only reason for living and all-important,that they then get more of it??
Duh.

[mainegreen]

21. Partly true.

I think first with my brain, then my heart, and if everything checks out with the first two, I let the little guy think for a while.

The problems come I think when you mess up the order of what thinks first.

:D

[Deja Q]

47. Partial truth. I don't quite fit your generalization. (nobody's perfect)

I like to think with both heads.

[mainegreen]

4. He's an ass and it always shocks and angers one ....

to find out how much time and emotion one spent on an ass?
It really shocks oneself when you really and finally realize you've been duped, and by how much; in love, money, friendship, whatever.

:shrug:

my meaningless 2 cents.

[mzteris]

8. he is - and yes -

I am angry.

I've wasted so much of my life, my emotion around trying to make him happy. He SAYS all he wants is for me to "be happy". Yeah. As long as it doesn't take any gd emotional effort on his part.

[ThomCat]

9. I think you're right.

If he really had a desire to reconcile with you he would be making an effort to date you, not other people.

I'm very sorry that he's giving you head-games, on top of whatever other grief he's handed you over the years.

You deserve better. :hug:

[Deep13]

10. I'm sorry you are in this situation.

I'm sure you don't deserve this. :( :hug:

I should point out that most men do not equate having sex with love or the desire for a good homelife. I mention that so maybe you won't take his behavior as quite so much of a personal rejection. Still, it is pretty insensitive and really immature on his part to do that.

[billyskank]

11. I don't know.

Given that I am always single, and yet I see even complete assholes have no trouble finding partners, I can only conclude either:

(1) I am the biggest asshole of them all, or

(2) The dynamics between men and women, why and how they get together are and forever will remain a mystery to me.

Whichever of these is correct, I am afraid I have no idea what the answer to your question is. Sorry. :(

[ThomCat]

14. I have always been totally amazed

when I hear that you don't have a girlfriend. :(

If you are even half as nice and charming IRL as you are online then I'd expect you to have a waiting list.

[billyskank]

24. It is funny that you should say that

One night, when I was at university, I was with a nice girl - actually it was even my first time. She said to me that she thought there should be a line of girls waiting at the door.

I was completely amazed that she said this, because it was the total opposite of how my life actually is. But what you just said reminded me of it.

Thanks anyway Thom. :hug:

[mzteris]

16. I think it's the opposite for you

YOu aren't an asshole and you don't want a superficial "relationship".

I cannot imagine why some girl hasn't run off with you already. If I were twenty years younger, I might even reconsider my ban on men for the rest of my life!

[billyskank]

25. Just between you and me...

after so many years, I would even take something superficial, if for nothing other than the novelty of the experience. I would even take sex just for the pleasure of it, in rather the same way a man in a desert would accept a glass of water.

But yes, I would much rather have a loving relationship that includes sex within it.

Ah, but I'll never figure it out. If I haven't yet, why should I expect to?

[MissMillie]

20. yes, it took me years to find out why none of the men in my life didn't stay

it turns out that I was not nearly disfunctional enough for any of them.

One of them married a woman who threw him down a flight of stairs.

One is now living with a woman who has two kids... and doesn't have custody of them. She lost custody of her kids. Women only lose custody of their kids if they're considered "unfit."

[billyskank]

27. My problem is not even that they won't stay, MissMillie

I don't attract them in the first place. :hi:

But I dare say I shape up reasonably well on the dysfunctionality front. ;)

[redqueen]

30. Aw, that's a skewed viewpoint ...

First of all, I bet lots of complete assholes DO have trouble. Just cause some are lucky doesn't mean they all have 'no trouble'.

Also lots of nice guys are attached... so while I wouldn't go so far as to say they have 'no trouble', it's obvious that that whole nice guy/asshole thing is a bunch of shit. :)

Your second point is just a fact... that's not just to you, that's a mystery to everyone, and anyone who says otherwise is lying their ass off.

:hug:

[billyskank]

33. I think it must be a greater mystery to me.

I believe you that nobody understands it. I guess to understand it, you would have to understand every person alive. But other people at least have an inkling of how to play the game. And I am sure that it is a game. I wish that it weren't; I don't have any interest in playing a game, but I am quite sure that I am in the minority. I think it *is* a game, and most people are much more adept at playing it than I will ever be.

:hug:

[redqueen]

34. Aw no! I don't care if most view it as a game..

I want it to not be... but if it is then I refuse to play.

:hug:

[billyskank]

38. I guess I refuse too.

Because I am clearly not participating. I don't know what it is.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. i am sorry.

:hug:

[redqueen]

22. *sigh*

I can't even begin to know what to say... but I think your insights about his behavior are spot-on. I hope the kids aren't aware of him doing all that... jesus.

Good luck... I hope things get easier for you.

:hug:

[mzteris]

26. just the impressionable one

our son who will be 14 in November. He knows "dad's - er - dating".

He told me the other day, "I'm not stupid, mom. I know what a jerk he is. I've always known."

sigh

I NEVER wanted our son to feel that way about his dad. Of course his dad is completely clueless - but if he knew how our son really felt, he'd just blame me anyway. (Everything's always my fault, doncha know.)


Usually I don't let it bother me. But maybe that's the operative word - let. I guess it's obvious it DOES bother me. A lot. More than I realized until today.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of WHY so I can stop it bothering me so much. I'm a firm believer in getting to the root of a problem. If you can understand hows & whys - you canat least start trying to 'fix' the problem.

[redqueen]

29. *sigh* indeed...

The only thing I could figure... and this is just me speaking as if it were me in that situation... is that it's insulting. He says he would like to reconcile, but is out nailing anything he can... that's a reflection of his feelings for you, and that, to me, would hurt like fuck.

Not hurt in the way that says "I care about this man" but hurt in the way that says "How can he claim to care, and still treat me this way?"

I hope you can get to the root of it... you don't deserve to be torn up over something you had the smarts to end months ago.

I separated from my ex almost five months ago, so I really identify with the soul searching aspect of what you're going through.

Good luck sweetie. :pals:

[mzteris]

31. Insulting - yep

I definitely feel insulted.

I think our sons' mother deserves better treatment, don't you?

Heck - I think *I* DESERVE BETTER TREATMENT!!!!!

[redqueen]

32. Damn straight! There's no 'think' to it... you DO. PERIOD!

:yourock:

[lildreamer316]

42. Part of why it may bother you:

Because you want him to know; down deep in his soul, that you are right. That you are a great catch. That you are worth caring about. That it is NOT, DAMMIT, your fault; that you tried hard and honestly and loved him and gave what you thought was right to the relationship; perfect or not.
And the reason it is so upsetting is because you know you won't be able to get through to him. He won't understand; he will refuse to see.
You used to think he was a person that you wanted to think highly of you, therefore when he doesn't; it still hurts. And there is a compulsion, almost, to try and MAKE him see reality. It's hard to resist, but of course never works, so it turns inward and becomes almost self-loathing, if you know what I mean. Very painful stuff.

Been there, done that. I hate it. You just have to realize that for whatever reason, he's not the person that you fell in love with. DO NOT beat yourself up about not "seeing" it; either he was hiding who he truly was, or for what was probably a very good reason at the time; you didn't choose to see it. That is ok; not seeing it...we all have lessons to learn. That's why we are here. If they aren't painful we don't remember them (I believe lifetime to lifetime, but that is personal..).

At some point he will cease to matter this much, and you will be able to forgive yourself for your perceived wrong of being able to love someone so much who is this insensitive. Not that you need forgiving; to love is never wrong. He just couldn't appreciate it, and that is his lesson to learn.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Feel free to tell me to f-- off, if this was insulting.
:hug:

[Westegg]

40. I'm a married man. Your soul-baring moved me.

Your husband is selfish, it goes without saying. Your anger is justified. He wants to have his cake and eat it too, and I don't mean that to be the crass metaphor it seems. What I mean is, simply, he wants to satisfy himself outside of the marriage and he also wants the option of coming BACK to the marriage once he's indulged himself. He doesn't understand that this is a fantasy, however, as real human pain and suffering is a direct result of what he's doing. To you and your children. He's indulging (childishly and selfishly) in the legal difference between a separation and a divorce, as I see it. In short, he may feel that a separation allows him a "vacation" from the marriage. A holiday from which he may choose to return any time. That he's put the decision on you is a passive-aggressive and ultimately cowardly act.

From your words, I don't know details such as: did he cheat while you were married? Was he always so selfish? And you suggested that if you were to date again he would "go ballistic." Is this true? If so, I need to up-grade my take on your husband from "selfish, childish asshole" to "truly disturbed and reprehensible human being." If this is his true nature, that makes me very angry, and even a little concerned for your safety. I would, in that case, have to wonder why you'd want him back.

My advice? (And this is not meant to be cavalier at all.) Start dating again. Look, I've only got your side of the story, but you know what? I BELIEVE you. I also believe that there's a lot of happiness for you in your life, and I urge you to find out how to find it. I've read your words. I'm thinking about them in terms of my own relationships, to my wife, and to other people in general. I wish you all the best.

[mzteris]

41. thank you.

It helps to know that there are good men in the world. Sometimes I get a little cynical.

"passive-aggressive" - yes. So he can get to "do what he wants and never take responsibility for it".

I DON"T want him back. Sometimes I wish it could have all been different. Sometimes I think (thought) that MAYBE if he got the counseling help he so desperately needs - and changed his behaviours - then maybe, just maybe, we could work on rebuilding - something.

But I think I've come to realize that that is just not going to happen. And yeah, it makes me sad. And yeah, it makes me pretty damn angry that he can't even be bothered to TRY and get counseling. If not for me, if not for himself, then damn it - for our kids!

I don't know if he cheated or not. I always suspected he did, though he always claimed he didn't. I wanted to believe him. I guess I still want to believe it though in reality I guess I don't.

I don't want to date because I can't imagine letting myself be vulnerable to anyone emotionally ever again. Besides, I don't feel all that dateable, you know? And I guess it would feel nice to feel attractive and special to someone.

But I really can't imagine dating right now. I mean, if nothing else, my kids have been through enough. I've been through enough. And to just casually "date" like the marriage meant nothing? It just seems wrong to me.


You sound like a great guy and your wife is pretty lucky. Go tell her you love her.

[keithjx]

45. I'm sorry that you are going through this

I don't have much in the way of advice, but the heartache you feel moves me to offer support.

And be sure that if/when you do start dating, he'll be jealous and crawling to your door begging to work it out.

Others here have offered good thoughts and perspective, so I just wish you the best.

:hug:
KJ

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. Sorry you're having heartache.

Remember, male egos are smaller than their female counterparts. Sometimes, a man wants sex to head off the feelings of...well, that's my point, men aren't good at feelings, and solving for them if they can recognize them.

Men as you may know or even experienced, may have difficulty with committing to a relationship, and if they do, may feel that they have left something behind instead of gained something. Ego is like that. It never stops whispering and longing, for its own sake.

He may be lonely and not know it.

And of course, some women are like this as well.

My 2 cents on the very basic surface of the matter as I understand it from a very small window into your life.

[Deja Q]

48. I'm sorry you're having to go through that.

:(

:hug:

[hippywife]

49. First of all,

I'm so very sorry you are having to deal with this.

Second of all, of course you're hurt. You have a long history with this person. A history of sharing the good times and the bad as a couple. You were still hoping to salvage something of the relationship but even tho he says he wants to, his actions are speaking louder than his words. He wants you to be his security blanket, while he's out having his fun. Don't give him that opportunity. I've known men like that and they never change. He will continue to try to insinuate himself into your life when he feels he needs/wants it. Do not let him do that.

From your words, I take it that the separation was something you didn't want but realized eventually that it had to happen. My advice is to take your actions from his cues and let yourself hurt for awhile then build the life you would like to have for you and your kids. If you're not ready to date, and it is probably too soon, have some fun with your girlfriends...go out for dinners, plays, music, etc. once in awhile. Not so often that the kids feel like both parents have moved on without them (and I know you won't do that) but often enough so the kids see that you aren't going to be okay without him, too. Sounds like at least your son realizes what you've been dealing with and I think it would do them loads of good, and even offer them so relief, to see you happy and not giving up on you.

Feel like taking some art or literature classes, join a book club, or whatever else it is that has always interested you but couldn't quite find the time to do? This is your chance to make the changes in your life you may have been sitting on and delaying because you were being held back. Let yourself mourn the loss, because in the end that's what it is, and then go for it, girl!

I wish you much healing and lots of success in being the you you want to be. :hi:

[skygazer]

50. I think there are people out there who really don't know what "love" is

I don't know - I'm sorry you're going through this shit because that's rough and it's gotta hurt. But obviously, he doesn't think about love, commitment, respect, etc. the way you do.

I'm sure you look at it as a slap in the face, as if you meant nothing to him. But I think its probably more a case of him not knowing what anything means emotionally. Thinking with his dick.

My father is like that. I don't get people like that. My father has been married five times. Every time a marriage ends, he doesn't really seem to grieve or regret or feel badly or any of the things that "normal" people do. He just moves on. It's like its all about him and the other person is just a momentary extension of him. When they're gone, he finds a new extension. Christ, I'm more emotional about losing a pet than he is about losing his wife. And its harder for me to think about getting another one.

Anyway, this sure sounds to me like a real case of, "It's not you, it's him." He sounds like he never matured at all emotionally. And I'm sorry. :hug: