What do you think of states or cities that become smoke-free

[nadine_mn]

Minnesota becomes a smoke-free state on Oct 1, which pisses me off to no end. I am an occasional smoker (usually at a bar) so this will not impact much. However until cigarettes become banned outright, I think its crazy to start telling people what they can and cannot do. I am all for cleaner air in restaurants and bars, but making smokers huddle around outside like criminals is beyond the scope of a state's authority. I think it becomes a slippery slope - soon us fatties will be having to eat sugar outside because the side effects of being fat will become the next target.


interested in other thoughts on this

[Oeditpus Rex]

1. I think they do a brisk business in popcorn

:popcorn:

[Omphaloskepsis]

2. I live in Eugene Oregon.

The ban of smoking inside hasn't really affected anything. We passed it 8+ years ago. I actually prefer it now. And I smoke. It really isn't a big deal.

[JVS]

80. I think it depends on climate. Going out into a Minnesota winter is a big PITA for a smoke.

[Skittles]

3. don't huddle while you smoke

go for a quick walk

[lligrd]

4. It Is A Slippery Slope

Where I work in CA it started with outside. Seemed fair enough, but then at my job, the smokers congregated at the doors and the non-smokers complained about that so smokers were forbidden within 20 feet of a door or window. Then, the patio that was the original smoking section with benches, tables and umbrellas became off limits to smokers because non-smokers liked to sit in the area. In some places, including my HMO and hospital, smoking is prohibited in any area within the entire property. I kid you not, when you drive by, you will see hospital patients with their IVs standing alongside nurses and doctors on the street corner.

And at my workplace, cell phone users have now been kicked outside along with the smokers.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

6. Our entire property at work is smoke free...

They have been known to fire people for smoking in their cars on the property. Apparently the guy who started the company, well, his wife died of smoking related illness, and now he's anti smoking. They make it clear when you're hired. It's not like it's not spelled out for them. It is soooo nice to not have to walk out the doors and get hit in the face with smoke. It just makes me want to barf.
Duckie

[spoony]

8. I agree

I hate how the ground floor of even non-smoking buildings stinks like smoke because they're all four inches outside the door.

[grace0418]

9. I'm not really interested in getting into this possible flame fest but I just have to comment

that I'm have a hard time feeling sorry for doctors, nurses, and patients who have to go to the street corner to smoke.

It's a hospital. I fully support having it be a completely non-smoking environment. If there's one place on the planet I feel that people should be able to expect complete freedom from cigarette smoke exposure, it would have to be a hospital.

[lligrd]

25. I'm Against Treating Anyone Like 2nd Class Citizens

and I think patients dragging their IVs down to the corner just shows how addictive cigarettes are. If the government really cared, they would research and fund ways to make it easier to quit. My father learned to smoke in the army where they passed out free cigarettes. The government makes a fortune taxing cigarettes but does little to help smokers quit.

Feel free to ignore me. I have an abundance of sympathy for all kinds of people.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

26. It's nice to have sympathy for people...

But it's hard to have sympathy for idiots who don't give a shit that they are harming others. I'm not saying this is all cigarette smokers but it accounts for a majority, I believe.
Duckie

[zanne]

41. I feel the same.

I quit smoking five years ago, but I still vividly remember going outside in 10 degree weather to have a cigarette. If somebody had told me then that I couldn't even do that, I would have hit them with a stick. And the apartment thing. What gives anybody the right to say that they won't rent you an apartment if you smoke? It seems to me that people who don't smoke are just rubbing it in smoker's faces, as though they feel superior. Well, I don't smoke and I don't feel superior. I wish people could smoke in comfort. If the government really wanted people to stop smoking, they'd make sure that people wouldn't have to pay $60 for a box of patches or nicotine gum and they'd have outpatient rehab centers to help them out.

[LynneSin]

58. Wait, $60 dollars for the patches vs. $151 a month for smokes

That's based on smoking a pack a day where the smokes are $5 a pack.

BTW - Delaware does provide assistance to quit smoking including quit-smoking aids. I think most states have similiar programs that were paid for with the Tobacco industry lawsuits

[Pacifist Patriot]

64. What gives someone the right?

Sorry, but as someone who was once stuck in the position of having to rent out a condo I couldn't sell due to an incredibly soft market I've got something to say about that one.

Try $4,000 in repairs before we could rent it out again because of having to replace the carpets, the kitchen flooring and bathroom countertop because of burn holes and smoke permeation. You bet the next tenants weren't allowed to be smokers. No I don't think all smokers treat their rental property like that, my dad certainly would never have considered it, but as the property owner I didn't feel like incurring that risk again. So yep. I'd say I had the right to deny renting to smokers if I felt like it.

I also treated a woman with fourteen cats as a "second class citizen" when I refused to rent to her too I guess.

And ditto to LynneSin on the cost analysis.

I have a great deal of sympathy for smokers of previous generations. Before the risks were known. My dad became a smoker thanks to Uncle Sam. I've seen the health problems and difficulty with quitting through him.

But any kid today who gets hooked on smoking is just flat out stupid. It's a waste of hard earned money, an unnecessary health risk and all the information is out there. Am I superior to smokers as a person? Nope. Am I making a better choice than a new generation of smokers? Absolutely.

[grace0418]

65. Regarding apartments, I'll tell you what "gives anybody the right to say they

won't rent you and apartment if you smoke." It's is a building owner's right not to rent to anyone they think will cause damage to their building, or make it difficult to rent the unit later on. I have a cat and I fully understand why some landlords will not rent to people who own pets. I don't go around demanding to know what gives them the right to set rules in their own building.

A landlord can't discriminate based on gender, race or sexual preference (at least in theory) but beyond that they have the right to set certain rules that a prospective tenant can either agree to or look for an apartment elsewhere. Those rules can include pet ownership, quiet hours, decorating, and yes, smoking. Non-smokers can smell an apartment, a car or a hotel room that's been used by a smoker, even if it's been thoroughly cleaned. Why should a landlord risk losing a prospective tenant who finds the apartment smelly and distasteful?

As a building owner, I wouldn't want to have yellowed, streaky walls and ceilings that would have to be deep cleaned, completely primed with the most expensive primer, then repainted just to make the place bearable for the next tenant. And forget about carpet, that has to be completely replaced. I know because I moved into an apartment like that. I didn't complain because the landlord gave me a great deal on the rent and was really nice about a bunch of other stuff. But he stopped by to fix something about a month after I moved in and was horrified that the place was so smelly. When I moved in it was still spring and the smell wasn't as bad. He'd repainted and had the placed cleaned so he thought it was alright. Then it started to get warm and the smell was awful. He ended up completely ripping out the carpet, priming and repainting before it got better. What a pain for him. He told me he'd never let another smoker move into the building.

I wish people could smoke in comfort too. I just wish they could somehow invent something that would keep the smoke from affecting anyone else.

[CreekDog]

101. The smoke drifts through ventilations systems,

from your patio to mine and into my windows.

When I had neighbors who smoked, they would come out onto their patio, shut their patio door and light up and the smoke would come into my door which was open during most of the year. I had to kept it shut after that and run the a/c instead.

Smoking may be your right, but not anywhere you want if the smoke cannot be controlled.

[Roon]

92. My Grandfather smoked because the military

used to provide the cigs. He quit long before I was born. I was able to quit because of the tobacco lawsuits. I got my patches for free!! Patches and group, that was how I was able to quit after 20 years of smoking.

[CreekDog]

100. I want to be ogre and make them stop smoking

And would love nothing than for them to complain to me years later with strong voices and voiceboxes powered with strong lungs.

Smoking is something that even most smokers wish they didn't do but cannot stop because it is addictive.

Here's to helping them stop and them living longer and healthier lives as a result.

[meow2u3]

133. I strongly agree

If the government really wanted smokers, especially hardcore and/or poor smokers, to quit, they'd fund smoking cessation clinics, even inpatient treatment centers, for wannabe ex-smokers.

I think the government wants to keep people addicted to nicotine not only to fill their coffers, but also to "eliminate the 'surplus' population."

[Mojorabbit]

27. As a retired nurse

who's dad died in Jan. The worst thing you can do in such a highly stressful situation as staying 24/7 at the hospital with a loved one who is dying or horribly ill is not to have a place where those who are addicted to smoking can go for a few minutes to blow off some of that stress. But then, I have a lot of empathy for people on both sides of the equation.

[ChoralScholar]

97. I noticed that at our local hospital.

Smokers can be seen regularly at the Funeral Home across the street, taking a smoke break.

Irony? Who knows.

[CreekDog]

103. practice ;)

[CreekDog]

98. i worked at Kaiser Hospital in California

They eventually said you had to smoke off the property, that is walk all the way across the parking lots to El Camino Real (the main drag outside San Francisco).

My coworkers who were smokers both quit smoking as a result --they formerly smoked outside the main entrance on breaks. They were grateful for the ban.

Another coworker at my current job said that the ban on smoking in the workplace back in the late 1980's turned him from a full pack a day smoker to just a few cigarettes per day that he has time for now that he has to leave the building.

Everybody who can't stop smoking wishes they could. Ask around.

[pokerfan]

5. I don't mind it, but...

"I personally believe that as US Americans..."

a bar or restaurant is still private property. If the proprietor chooses to ban smoking, allow smoking, or deal with it in some other fashion should be his/hers decision.

Smokers and non-smokers can vote with their feet and pocketbooks.

[CreekDog]

104. Those workers are covered by Workers Compensation

Everybody pays those taxes and the states pay the compensation.

They have a say.

It is private property, but not everything done their is a private activity.

Smoking there may make workers and other customers sick. Your rights stop at...etc. etc.

[Jamastiene]

I wouldn't know. I don't visit those places...

because they won't let me smoke. :P

Seriously, it looks like a slippery slope to me. They are trying to legislate morality. That just brings out the rebel in me. :evilgrin:

[MissMillie]

57. I don't think it's about legislating morality

There are strong arguments to both sides of this argument, but I don't think morality is one of them.

The reason I say this is because these laws don't demand that everyone quit smoking.

It merely creates smoke-free zones.

Smokers are free to keep smoking. They are merely limited as to where they can smoke.

[SoxFan]

7. Oh, boy!

I feel that it should be up to the business owner to make the decision. A lot of the rhetoric I hear from the smoke-free advocates has a clucking, finger-wagging, condescending tone that really hacks me off.

NH just passed a smoking ban bt, naturally, bungled it. They banned smoking in all restaurants and most clubs. Unfortunately, the two senators behind the ban had pals who belonged to "private clubs" in Manchester and Nashua, and they exempted these establishments from the ban. As a result, many regular clubs are bleeding business to the exempt "private" clubs, creating a slanted playing field. It was a sleazy move by the two senators.

[graywarrior]

38. I miss NH jut for that reason.

and Gene Chandler. LOL.

[grace0418]

10. It's only a slippery slope if you assume the laws are protecting people from themselves.

In reality, the smoking laws are meant to protect everyone else from smokers. All smokers need to do is figure out some self-contained-environment/space-suit type thing to wear that keeps the smoke from affecting everyone around them and they are free to smoke 20 packs a day as far as I'm concerned.

Until it's proven that being fat gives other people cancer and emphysema, I don't see how the two things can be compared.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. In some states like CA, the ban was based on a worker safety argument.

That is, restaurant and bar workers shouldn't be required to work in an environment with constant second hand smoke.

I'd still rather see an outright ban on tobacco smoking rather than the whittling away at acceptable places but I believe the latter has become popular because the former involves taking on a very powerful lobbying group.

[nadine_mn]

17. I do think they can be compared if you look at some of the other

reasons why smoking is banned - its not just on the second hand smoke side effects. One reason is the increase cost of health insurance - some employers will not hire smokers because of this reason, its not hard to see that as our health care crisis continues, overweight people will be included.

In fact arguments have been made that overweight people should not adopt because they do not provide healthy role models for children or because they won't live long enough to be parents
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/25/national/main3203710.shtml

I agree that businesses should be allowed to be somke free or not and let people make choices. I don't like walking through a cloud of smoke to get into a building, however I am all for smoking lounges etc.

[taterguy]

11. Bars should be exempt from all smoking bans

We need sanctuaries for sin and decadence. It takes the edge off and makes people more agreeable which leads to longer and happier lives.

Cigarettes make bars more sociable. If you want to strike up a conversation with someone just ask them for a light or a smoke. Then bond over a nice enjoyable cigarette.

If you feel this puts your health at risk, well, if you're that concerned about health don't go to bars.

[Exultant Democracy]

12. In Ct bars have the option of putting in super-mega air systems

but from my understanding they are far to expensive. Only the casinos could afford them and they were exempt from the ban anyway.

[fudge stripe cookays]

20. Oh FFS.

This post is so inane I won't even comment.

[taterguy]

23. How so?

[fudge stripe cookays]

29. The rest of us should be subjected to...

horrific cancers and chemo treatments so you can pick up a chick by asking for a light.

Got it. :eyes:

I used to hang out in bars quite a bit when I was younger. The smoke didn't make them more "sociable". It made it LESS enjoyable, because every half hour or so I'd have to go outside to "air out" my eyes.

Bars should include little rooms so you can all go "socialize" with each other, and leave us and our health the hell alone.

[taterguy]

34. So go to bars that don't allow smoking

Even in areas that don't ban smoking there are bars that don't allow it.

Frankly I'm a bit sick (pun intended) of the arguments that people shouldn't smoke because others will be exposed to their toxins. Every day I choke on exhaust fumes riding my bike to work.

When do I get a ban on cars? Or at least a concerted effort to discourage the use of them? Don't I have a right to not be exposed to carcinogens?

[fudge stripe cookays]

42. If you're that concerned about carcinogens,

stop smoking, genius.

Until then your arguments sound really ridiculous. And I've already pointed out that there are plenty of us who can't use bicycles because our legs don't work.

[taterguy]

73. I'm concerned that others force me to breathe their noxious fumes

I am aware that there are folks with disabilities in this country. However, the overwhelming majority of car users do not fall into that category.

They're just not subjected to the 'pariah' status that smokers get even though they spew out far more pollution.

PS: When I quit smoking will you become a strong advocate of not using cars for personal transportation?

[fudge stripe cookays]

74. No.

Because that would make me a hypocrite if I still drive a car.

You just don't get it.

[taterguy]

95. I get that only one voluntary activity that endangers the health of others bothers you

I just think it's silly and inconsistent, especially since unnecessary automobile exhaust does far more damage to lungs than second-hand cigarette smoke.

However, you're entitled to your wrong opinion. :)

[fudge stripe cookays]

115. Unecessary automobile exhaust...

did not kill my dad. Cigarettes did.

I cannot do anything about cars. If you're so bothered by them, become a scientist and figure out how to make them safer. I cannot do without one.

My "wrong" opinion is also shared by lots of others on this board who aren't holier than thou assholes about their bike-riding.

[taterguy]

124. So the only deaths that concern you are folks you're related to

Interesting world view.

There's lots you could do about cars. You just choose not to. But what the hell, that's your right, because we live in an (allegedly) free country.

[fudge stripe cookays]

125. Yeah. That's EXACTLY IT.

:eyes:

You just choose not to see any world view but your own. Then you can be a sanctimonious jerk about it. Cigarettes have affected me more directly than cars. I hate global warming, but I need a car. I attempted to buy the most fuel-efficient model I could get away with. reprehensor and I didn't even OWN 2 cars until a month ago, when we had to buy another because I am in a different city. We carpooled everywhere.

Not everyone can live according to your master plan. Not everyone can afford to live close to their jobs, and not everyone is on a bus line or near a train.

Anything I would say about cars would MAKE ME A HYPOCRITE if I don't relinquish my own. I need a car to get around. But I'm sure you'll be happier when I am in a wheelchair from this disease and get more MPG.

Welcome to ignore. I'm done.

[taterguy]

126. Whew

For a little while I was concerned about losing this little pseudo-argument. Then you quit so I'll just declare myself winner by default.

Now that it's over let's shake hands and share a nice tasty beverage. I'll buy the first round, even though you called me an asshole.

[EstimatedProphet]

127. No, she won, clearly. You lost, clearly.

And claiming you won because someone else quits trying to talk to you is a public admittance that you lost.

[taterguy]

131. You lose ten points for making a post that has nothing whatsoever to do with smoking bans :)

I am curious about why you think she clearly won. You're welcome to PM me your thoughts if you don't feel like another threadjack.

[jgraz]

90. So what do you say to bar workers? Find another job?

Before smoking bans, it was damn near impossible to find smoke-free bars in most cities. For people like me who made their livings in bars and resaturants, it was a pretty nasty experience. I lived on inhalers and antihistamines during that time and never felt quite healthy. In the end, I decided jazz piano needed to be just a hobby for me, mostly because of the environments I was playing in.

These days, I can book a gig in any bar in most cities and not need to "pre-medicate" before I go on stage.

[mark414]

77. then open up your own damn bar

it's a simple solution

[fudge stripe cookays]

82. I could...

say the same of you.

Simple.

[mark414]

84. that only proves my point

bar or restaurant owners should be able to allow what they want in their own establishment

[Susang]

118. Why?

All businesses are subject to safety regulations, why should bars be any different? Say a bar chose to refuse service to all black people? Hey, it's their place, right? What if they decided to serve anyone 18 and up? Hey, they're adults, right? Or do you think that bars should be able to use insufficient sanitation for their food and glassware? Be allowed to cram as many patrons in their small space as they can? If the bar or restaurant owner wanted to let an employee work with hepatitis, would you have a problem with that?

Just because a bar or restaurant is "private property" doesn't mean that they are exempt from the safety and labor laws that govern all other businesses. Bars aren't private parties, no matter how similar the two may seem to you. They are subject to regulation, same as any other industry. Am I wrong to assume you'd scream bloody murder if workers at Wal-Mart were consistently exposed to dangerous carcinogens while they were working? This is no different.

[billyskank]

14. As a non-smoker, I guess I do like the lack of smoke in the snooker club

but I am still uncomfortable with the ban. It does seem a bit fascist to me.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

15. That's fabulous!

It's great that MN is becoming smoke free.

I don't have to breath the stinky air anymore when I visit!

[abq e streeter]

16. I spoke before an NM senate committee in favor of the smoking ban.

Sorry. I respect your right to smoke, but respect my own right to not be forced to inhale toxic ( and that's as proven a fact as global warming; not debatable anymore) second hand smoke into my lungs just for wanting to go out for dinner, go to work or hear some live music.

[fizzgig]

18. i smoke and it doesn't really bother me

my city passed their smoking ban five years ago (i wasn't smoking at the time) and for me, going outside to have a smoke is a chance to get out of the bar and actually talk to people rather than shouting over the music.

colorado passed its ban last year and i was a bit more perturbed, mostly because the two bars i went to outside the city limits were almost exclusively smoking...the owners, all the employees and probably 95 percent of the patrons smoked.

i understand that non-smokers don't want to be around it and i try to be very sensitive to that, but i also think that business owners should have some modicum of control over what happens inside their establishment and the free market should be allowed to work. smoking is a legal activity and it is being criminalized to an extent.

but, like i said before, it's no bother to me to have to go outside to smoke

[fudge stripe cookays]

19. I love it.

Don't care about your rights to kill yourself in your own house. But I don't want to have to smell it or breathe it.

Cigarettes killed my father at 47, and I'd love to see them go away for good. Sorry.

[Mythsaje]

21. We should ban it entirely

and then institute the death penalty for nicotine dealers.

That'll show them!

:sarcasm:

[Ellen Forradalom]

22. Calabasas CA is smoke free

as I learned when I saw the sign on the tables OUTSIDE the Starbucks.

It's a bit much. You should be able to smoke at an outdoors table set at slight remove from the business' doors and other tables.

[noamnety]

24. I wish we had it here.

It's not as much a problem now that I'm working at a school. But at the last job, at a government-owned facility, every morning I started my day feeling like I was going to hurl - it was like having morning sickness every M-F for years, cause at 6:30am I had to walk through the ashtray effect of huddled smokers surrounding the entrance. And then they'd come in, get on the tiny elevator with me, and exhale their smoke filled lungs into that enclosed space. Ugh.

How hard is it to step away from the smokers and take a half dozen deep breaths before going back in, instead of stomping out the cigarette and immediately coming in and exhaling that crap into the supposedly smoke-free building? That's freaking rude.

[triguy46]

28. OK is smoke free in restaurants. It is so frickin nice. And a shock when I travel.

[Burma Jones]

30. We're smoke free here...

Things do smell better.

When the smoking ban was passed here, there was a lot of complaining by the Caucasian Blue Collar community, well - what's left of it - that basically said that first they were being priced out of the County, which is only true if they were unwilling to accept neighborhood diversity - and then that a smoking ban was just another attempt by the Yuppies and Soccer Moms to get rid of the "Working Man" and then finally that the County doesn't enforce immigration laws because we would rather have Hispanics working for us cheap than good old red blooded Americans - this was accompanied by the observation that Hispanics don't smoke as much as "white people".....

I do think there's some sort of Class Snobbery/Warfare attached to the bans, but, the bans have also helped me remain smoke free for over ten years......... and the restaurants smell better.....

The county has also recently banned Trans Fats.......

And yes, the government is all Democratic, from the County Executive to the Clerk of Court, nary an elected Republican in sight.

[Bennyboy]

31. I live in CA, the USA's non-smoking section.........

And it is not a big deal at all. You just go outside. Bars will set up special outdoor smoking sections with heaters and misters and you will make a lot of friends...criminals in common, so to speak.

The reason for the bans are simply liability issues. If smoking is allowed, and someone contracts lung cancer from second hand smoke, then the establishment is liable. This way there are no issues.

I smoke and I hate being in a room with people smoking. I go outside when I smoke in my own home and in my car.
So just realax, six months from now you won't even remember when you could puff away and endanger others health.

[nadine_mn]

55. Come here for a smoke in February

Hell I wouldn't mind sitting outside in CA, however up here where the windchill gets to minus 40, then its not so relaxing

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. Sorry, but I like it. And the analogy is a little off base

Sugar doesn't blow in my face. I realize there are endless debates on the detriments of second hand smoke, but it's still a noxious odor. Whether it is giving me cancer or not, cigarette smoke is a migraine trigger for me. It is also highly distasteful when I'm in a decent restaurant and would like to enjoy my flavor and odor of my food.

We tell people they have to wear a seat belt, pay their taxes and provide family leave time in companies over a certain number of employees. That's the whole point of laws and the social contract. Legislating against a deadly substance just doesn't ring any alarm bells with me. Sorry!

My father had both throat cancer and bladder cancer because of a cigarette addiction. I openly admit to bias. No point in arguing with me or trying to convince me otherwise. I know I am completely irrational about this and cannot be engaged in dialogue. You asked for my thoughts and I gave them. Anyone coming at me as a fascist for supporting these laws will be preaching on deaf ears. Gotta be honest about that.

Anyone who picks up smoking today with all the knowledge we have about the addiction and consequences is fucking stupid. Judgemental much? You bet!

[fudge stripe cookays]

43. Right on, sister.

My dad tried numerous times to quit, and it didn't work. It killed him at 47.

His death was the one thing in my life that had the most profound effect on everything else, including the decay of my family. I hate cigarettes, and will never apologize for that. They SUCK, and they kill people. The people that use them, and those around them.

[Pacifist Patriot]

45. Well that was refreshing.

Usually I have my ass handed to me when I get my back up about this. I am so sorry to hear about your father. I don't think many people really understand the true consequences of the loss of a life like that. So young too!

[fudge stripe cookays]

49. Yep, I was only 13 when he died.

And my mom and I have had a nasty, volatile relationship ever since because of the asshole she hooked up with after it happened. He ruined 10 years of my life, and you better believe I'm pissed about it.

I was kept on a short leash by those two for so long that I only had about 8 years of true freedom and real happiness in my life until I met reprehensor and got married. And now I have the MS to deal with. There was so much else I wanted to do and never got to. That would never have happened if my dad had still been alive. I could twist him around my finger because I was a daddy's girl. My life would have been SO much different.

[nadine_mn]

53. I understand your point

however, see previous response, my analogy refers to the increasing rise of obese people not being hired (health insurance too costly which is also a reason smokers are not hired) and being unable to adopt (fear of not living long enough)

I think there will come a point where the argument will be made about not eating fatty or sugary foods in front of children because it sets a bad example. I don't like the idea of the state telling me to be healthy.

As far as second hand smoke, I agree that it is deadly so my question is why is it not illegal?

Why not ban it outright?? As long as it is legal, I think its a slippery slope. I don't disagree with you/

[MrScorpio]

33. I don't smoke and my life is smoke free

As long as others don't invade my space with their smoke, I really don't care

[Heidi]

35. I'm okay with it. I'm a smoker, but why should the public have to put up with

one of my personal habits at the peril of their health? I rarely smoke in public, anyway, and when I do, I always ask the people around me before I light up.

[ellisonz]

36. Bar owners should be able to decide whether their establishment is smoking.

The employee argument that was hatched in California is crap. If they don't like smoking they should find a new job. Smokers need jobs too.

[KitchenWitch]

110. Yeah, like there are dozens of jobs for bartenders and waitresses to choose from...

That dog don't hunt.

[ellisonz]

116. Good Lord.

I work in a restaurant as a host/busser and I'm a smoker. You wouldn't believe how hard it is for smokers to find jobs in customer service. You mostly have to hide the fact that you smoke, period. There are more jobs in the restaurant business than you think. When was the last time you worked in food service? Moreover, I'm talking more about traditional bars and not per say bar/grills and not coffee shops, sitdown restaurants, or fast food joints. But honestly, if the owner of the dive bar wants to allow smoking in his establishment that is his business. What ever happened to the free market?

[Susang]

119. I've worked in bars/restaurants for over 20 years

Your argument is still bullshit. You don't know everyone's circumstances. That's like saying everyone who works at Wal-Mart should just suck it up, let them lock you in at night, sexually harass you, deny you promotions based on your gender or sexual preference and work you overtime without paying you, etc. If you don't like it, just get another retail job. After all, there are more jobs in retail than you think.

"Whatever happened to the free market?"

You're kidding right? We don't have a free market here, never have. Just ask Alan Greenspan or better yet, read his book. And while you're at it, read this: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/07/blowing_smoke_over_second_hand_smoke_1.php

[ellisonz]

128. I bet you're management.

You think I question that second hand smoke kills? My argument is simple. Proprietors ought to have the right to choose whether or not their establishment is smoking. I don't have to know "everyone's circumstances" to make that argument, and no that's not saying that workers should be abused by their employees. I'm sorry that you're so blinded by your dislike of smokers that you want to outlaw the right of a business owner to make his own decisions about his own business. If you were talking about a one joint town then you *might* have an argument. But really it's just a bunch of huffing and puffing by sanctimonious do-gooders...why don't you just prohibit alcohol again while you're at it?

:toast: :smoke:

[sniffa]

37. as a smoker, i don't care

i don't go out to bars much anymore so it isn't an issue. i prefer to hang out on my porch and drink, where i can smoke Like a chimney if i choose.

[Fox Mulder]

39. Thank God.

[meegbear]

40. SUCKS! BLOWS! BITES THE BIG ONE!

Fine if you're in a warm locale, but having a smoke with a -20 wind chill sucks.

[supernova]

44. I like smoking bans

It's much more enjoyable for me, a nonsmoker, to go out to public spaces and not have to inhale smoke. And not just running errands to the bank, the library and so on. I'm more inclined to visit bars, restaurants, and other places in the evening, and linger longer (read: spend more $$) because the smoke isn't chasing me away. So it's good for those establishments who want to increase their custom. Even moreso than us nonsmokers, most smoking bans are for the health of the people who work in these places. Even if they are smokers themselves, they are getting a double smoke dose.

I'm not against smoking. I think everybody has freedom of choice. I don't know what the answer is. You really can't have a smoking area in the same building because the ventilation system invariably carries smoke to the nonsmoking areas, which defeats the purpose of the smoking ban. The only other option is "separate but equal." And well, we don't have that kind of society, at least we pretend to.

Edit: In NC the home of the mass produced cigarette, most businesses and public buildings are smoke free anyway. The General Assembly rejected a state-wide smoking ban this term, but I wouldn't be surprised if it came back again next year.

[yellowdogintexas]

46. I enjoy living in a smoke free more or less area. It is very nice

to walk into a restaurant and eat, enjoy my meal and not come out smelling of other people's smoke, with a sore throat and a bad headache. Smoke is a major irritant to my respiratory system and not being around it is wonderful. It is nice to go to the grocery and not smell smoke all around the fresh food. It is heavenly to not have to breathe smoke at my workplace!

Now I DO think that alternative places should exist, (especially in the bar business) that are smoking establishments, advertised as such so that those of us who really can't tolerate it can not go there but those who want to smoke can go there. (just think of the extra money a town could make on the "smoking licenses" LOL) These could be traditional bars/pubs/taverns or more mainstream eating places, they just have to let us know it is a smoking place. I will so gratefully stay away and go to my non smoking eatery of choice.

When I travel to other parts of the country, I am careful of the places I choose to eat, because I know the smoking is not segregated and the ventilation may not be sufficient to compensate, which means I miss out on a lot of the good ole diners and family places when I am in Kentucky and Tennessee, but I am willing to give that up to breathe well and not have sore throat and a headache. I never go into the bar area of a restaurant as that is usually the smoking area.


And by the way, I live in a Major Metropolitan Area and the restaurant business is booming; no indication that the no smoking regs have harmed the restaurant business in any way.

it doesn't take long at all for a smoky place to irritate my sinuses, throat, lungs and trigger a bad headache, and that includes walking through the huddled masses of smokers at the workplace entrance. I try to detour where ever I can but sometimes can't avoid it.

Oh by the way, I grew up in Kentucky where they grow it, lived my young life surrounded by smokers, and suffered many a workplace filled with people lighting up constantly. I had no idea how much of my headaches and lung problems were due to smoke until I got into a smoke free workplace. The longer I remain where I seldom have to deal with smoke, the more irritating it becomes.

[AirmensMom]

47. I'm very excited about it.

It was a HUGE shock to move from FL, with its clean indoor air act, to TN, with its smoke anywhere rules. I was shocked to find the cashiers at gas stations smoking while they ran my credit card. They sell pizza at the same gas stations, just a few feet away from the smoking cashiers. :puke:

Sorry, but smoking isn't like eating sugar. It pollutes the air for everyone around you. For people with breathing problems, smoke makes it even harder to breathe.

I have no problem with a person's choice to smoke, although I think it's a stupid choice. One of my best friends died from emphysema last year. He knew the smoking killed him. But he never imposed his smoking on anyone else and didn't care if he had to go outside. It was HIS habit, not everyone else's.

[Phillycat]

48. As a smoker, I'm in favor of the bans on indoor smoking.

Being in a smoke-filled room makes me ill after awhile. I don't smoke in my house, ever.

I do think it's taken too far when it's an outside area. Ridiculous!

[Rambis]

50. I was out in MN Sat night

I have to say I feel like I smoked a pack and we were in beer gardens outside all night. I think people should be allowed to smoke in bars but it is nice when you don't have to deal with it.

[SacredCow]

51. As a non-smoker....

I personally enjoy not having to smell smoke. In Louisiana, it's only been banned in restaurants- bars are still open to smokers, and I very seldom frequent them for just that reason.

But I do have a problem with the government telling privately-owned businesses that they can't allow something that is 100% legal to happen within their walls.

[NC_Nurse]

52. Love them.

Smoke makes me nauseous. I have several friends with asthma, smoke is a trigger for them.

Smokers forget that they are a nuisance and a hazard to others. Tough shit for them. Go kill yourself somewhere else.

[meow2u3]

54. I think there's a slippery slope

Soon, they'll start criminalizing possession of tobacco the same way they do pot. Do they really want to fill for-profit prisons with smokers? I think that's the goal of the tobacco nazis.

If smoking is outlawed, only outlaws will smoke.

[LynneSin]

59. I can't see them doing that - not with the tax dollars they get from tobacco

They'll do things to help people cut down or quit smoking but they'll never give-up that easy tax dollars

[yellowdogintexas]

67. quite right you are. too entrenched and way too much revenue

being generated for it to be deemed totally illegal.

[gmoney]

56. Ohio is non-smoking, but I spend some time in Michigan...

...and when I'm up there, it throws me when I see someone light up right in the middle of a restaurant or gallery or something. I wanna say, "wait isn't that illegal?" then catch myself... spooky how fast I became conditioned that way.

I'm a non-smoker, but generally didn't mind it too much when others did. About the only times it would bother me is when I'd go to a concert at a bar and emerge feeling like I'd been marinated in cigarette smoke. I'd always leave my coat in the car on those occassions.

Note to self: watch "Cold Turkey" again soon.

[LynneSin]

60. Delaware was the 2nd state to go smoke free and I love it

No one forced anyone here to start smoking. I understand for baby boomers - smoking was treated like a healthy thing to do - but everyone younger than that has pretty much been giving all the warnings. So if someone chooses to smoke then they've chosen to obey the rules created in order to prevent non-smokers from inhaling the smoke. And I'm not talking about someone like me who probably is around a smoker maybe once a month. But for all the employees who have had to deal with this on a regular basis.

It took about 3 years to clean up my nasty smokers cough and I am a lifetime non-smoker. But I needed to wait tables in order to make ends meet and pay bills. I knew with waitressing I could make a really good salary but in order to make that money I had to put up with alot of smoke inhalation.

[Midlodemocrat]

61. For it. Smoking stinks.

[Deep13]

62. No state is smoke free.

Every state allows people to smoke at home or outdoors.

I cannot tell you how happy I was that Ohio banned indoor smoking at businesses in 2006. The voters were smart enough to kill a partial ban that was sponsored by the tobacco lobby and approve a comprehensive ban. The partial ban would have overruled the strict ban had they both passed.

In the 1990s I worked at a smoke free office, but the other tenant in the building was running a cancer factory and it negatively affected my health. Your solution would be for me to break my contract and try to find another job, an hopefully not run into the same problem elsewhere. The public policy should always favor health over sickness. There is no right to pollute the air.

[Deep13]

63. My GD response:

No state is smoke free.

Every state allows people to smoke at home or outdoors.

I cannot tell you how happy I was that Ohio banned indoor smoking at businesses in 2006. The voters were smart enough to kill a partial ban that was sponsored by the tobacco lobby and approve a comprehensive ban. The partial ban would have overruled the strict ban had they both passed.

In the 1990s I worked at a smoke free office, but the other tenant in the building was running a cancer factory and it negatively affected my health. Your solution would be for me to break my contract and try to find another job, an hopefully not run into the same problem elsewhere. The public policy should always favor health over sickness. There is no right to pollute the air.

[av8rdave]

66. I sorta like it...and in CA (smoke free) it's so easy to find a bar now

You just look down the street and look for a knot of people smoking on the sidewalk!

[Arugula Latte]

68. Next year restaurants and bars in Oregon FINALLY go smoke free.

It's about friggin' time. Looooong overdue, IMO.

[XemaSab]

69. As someone with lifelong asthma

don't EVER take your ability to breathe for granted. :(

[Redstone]

70. They can do without MY tourist dollars, that's what I think.

Redstone

[WildEyedLiberal]

71. To the people who say "the government doesn't have a right to tell businesses what they can do":

Yes, it can and does. See: OSHA regulations, minimum wage, environmental regulations, health department codes.

A restaurant does NOT have the right to serve you spoiled meat. It does NOT have the right to refuse to force its kitchen staff to wash their hands after using the bathroom. It does not have the right to pay workers a dollar an hour. It does not have the right to refuse to serve someone because of their race. It does not have the right to dump its grease and byproducts into the city's water main.

You can disagree that banning smoking is necessary to ensure public health, but you can't argue that the government has "no right" to dictate certain business practices that affect public health, safety, and civil rights, because it has done so for about one hundred years.

[CreekDog]

107. Well said, amen.

[Dukkha]

72. I'm fine with it, so but how about smog-free states now

n/t

[mark414]

75. as a smoker, any claim of "smoker's rights" is patently ridiculous

(though i am in the process of quitting and doing very well with it...averaging 1 cig or less per day, down from a pack and a half)

and even though being in a smoke free bar or restaurant would make my task a lot easier, i still call bullshit. i think it's important for government to encourage good healthy habits for everyone but making laws over it and acting like my nanny is too much for me. they've got no right to tell somebody what they can and can't allow in their establishments...if you don't want to be around a bunch of smokers, there are plenty of places that don't allow it, go to one of those.


and as for the argument that smoking affects more than just the smoker...

being overweight is unhealthy and makes one more likely to suffer from bad health. people suffer from bad health, have to spend lots of time with the doctor, and my medical and insurance costs keep going up and up because too many lazy fat people can't eat right or get off the couch. therefore i want to ban junk foods, unhealthy eating habits, fat people, and couches.

also, when i drive my car, other people on the road are a hazard to me because they might hit me and kill me. therefore, i call for a law that prohibits all other vehicles on the road when i am driving. also just ban other cars period because they emit many hazardous fumes, tons more than any smoker possibly could. and since cars add to the problem of global warming, they threaten the whole earth. ban them.

furthermore, being outside around other people is also dangerous and hazardous to my health. there are many murderers, rapists and thieves in this world. so walking around during the course of my day, i might get killed or beaten up or robbed. so i propose another law banning other people from being outside when i am so i don't get hurt.

in sum, everyone and everything but myself and my own interests are a potential life-hazard to me. so we should ban everybody and everything so that i don't get hurt.

this isn't a public interest law...it's a self-interest law. i'm fucking tired of this nanny state and everybody who supports government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.

[CreekDog]

106. It's to protect the workers that would be exposed to your cigarette smoke

You have the right to decide for yourself to do that to yourself --but not to others.

And one reason smoking bans are increasing is that fewer people smoke and fewer people expect or want to be exposed to cigarette smoke --before it was tolerated and almost expected.

I used to go bowling and come back smelling like a pack of cigarettes --all that ended up in my lungs. Why should I need to be exposed to that so that you or other smokers can do that?

[mark414]

108. then don't go to that bowling alley

it's not a right to patronize a business

some businesses are smoke free, others aren't. non-smokers should go to the ones that are and smokers can go to the ones that allow in their habit.

and here's an idea: find a new job!

[CreekDog]

109. I can go either place: Smoking is banned in bowling alleys

Smoking banned in all workplaces in California.

And I say this only to piss you off.

[Susang]

120. "find a new job!"

Yeah, right. It's just that easy. :eyes:

And before you try to prove to me just how many jobs there are in the service industry, I should warn you that I've clocked over 20 years in the bar business in 2 countries and three states. Read this and tell me again why workers, often low wage employees, should be subjected to constant exposure to carcinogens? http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2007/01/how_the_other_half_lives_and_b.php

On edit: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/07/quote_mining_about_secondhand_smoke_1.php

[fudge stripe cookays]

122. How about...

meeting friends out for a drink when you have friends who smoke politely (don't puff in your face or do it outdoors where it's not such a problem).

Guess we shouldn't be hanging out with them. Wouldn't want to mix with those folks.

[idgiehkt]

76. wow, a smoke free "state"

I don't even know what that means...

[Xipe Totec]

78. If this includes coal fired power plants and diesel trucks I'm for it.

Mind you I'm not a smoker; I quit 25 years ago.

But I do hate hypocrisy.

Smoke free means smoke free.

[EstimatedProphet]

79. I'm OK with it for the most part

I disagree when it comes to specialty places like hookah bars and cigar bars.

[mvd]

81. I don't have a problem with smoking in outdoor, public places

But as a non-smoker who can't stand the smell of smoke, I'd rather people didn't smoke in enclosed areas. I don't want to ban smoking, but where possible there should be smoking and non-smoking areas.

[KitchenWitch]

83. I think "WOOHOO - another place I can go and not worry about breathing"

Asthma and radiation fibrosis of the lungs is a nightmare.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

85. Would somebody list them so I can go hang out there?

Thank you.

[cynatnite]

86. I'm a smoker and it doesn't bother me...

They're talking about making all bars and restaurants in TN smoke free. I think it should be a business owner decision, but I don't have a real problem with it. I go to non-smoking restaurants and it's no big deal.

Now, if this turns into 'Demolition Man' where he wakes up in a future that bans anything like sugar because it's not good for you...well, then we've got a problem :)

[barb162]

87. I agree. Can you imagine alcohol free states

or where they make alcohol users stand outside like criminals? When I think of all the drunk drivers who kill people, I think it's really unfair when smokers get treated like pariahs.

[jgraz]

89. If you got drunker when I took a drink, I'd agree with you

The problem with public smokers is not what they do to themsleves, but what they inflict on others. It's a simple case of your fist/my nose rights.

[CreekDog]

105. jgraz: good analogy

[ellisonz]

129. Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States

[Bullwinkle925]

88. works for me . . .

as a reformed smoker (last cigarette was over 20 yrs. ago) i absolutely love to be in a non-smoking atmosphere. i do draw the line, however when it comes to telling people that smoking is not legal in the privacy of their homes or cars. i'm so happy that i broke that god-awful habit and hope that others will see the light and join me.

[LanternWaste]

91. I'd be interested in moving to one...

I'd be interested in moving to one...

[electron_blue]

93. I love it and am glad Minn is finally smoke-free.

LOL at fatties having to go outside to eat their sugar. Would skinnies have to go out to eat it too?

I do wonder what smokers do when it gets really really nasty in winter in Minnesota and they want to light up. It does seem like they have fewer places to go all the time.

[ileus]

94. fatties won't be allowed sugar (not enough tax dollars involved)

[CreekDog]

102. You eating sugar doesn't hurt the lungs of the waiter serving you

Or the people sitting near you as you eat it.

If you think it is the same, you are not thinking this through.

[yellowdogintexas]

123. or spoil the meal in general, make everyone ELSE's clothing

stink and their hair, set off coughing spasms in those with allergies and asthma, cause headaches.

[CreekDog]

96. California banned smoking in restaurants and bars to protect workers

That's actually where a lot of the bans on smoking originated.

If you want to expose yourself to cigarette smoke, that is your right, but flight attendants, barkeepers, wait staff should not have to be exposed to second hand smoke to make a living in their professions.

Anyway, what they found was that non smokers in professions exposed to second hand smoke experienced lung cancer and lung disease at rates of smokers or worse.

So, take it outside, if you want to smoke inside with other people around, you are just being selfish.

[ChoralScholar]

99. Private businesses also limit

where I can take a dump. They make me do it in these little 4x6 stalls, in a room separate from the rest of the business.

I think I should be able to poop anywhere I want! I despise being treated like a second class citizen because I choose to defecate.

[blueraven95]

111. I think it's a big deal until it happens, and then mostly no one cares anymore.

[mike_c]

112. I LOVE it, and am constantly shocked when I travel to other states...

...that allow cigarettes in restaurants, bars, work places, etc. In California, I'm not forced to breathe someone else's foul tabacco cloud. I really like that.

[kwassa]

113. I think all states should go smoke-free.

[pnwmom]

114. I'll support banning public sugar consumption, too

the day other people's sugar starts flying through the air and sticking on me.

[fortyfeetunder]

117. It's great for me

When I traveled and I would hole up in my non-smoking room and eat carry out because a session in a restaurant would leave me with borderline bronchitis. Now I can almost have a life on the road...

[Maraya1969]

121. I bet in tourist town Fort Myers Florida there will never be a ban...except

in restaurants which is the way it is now. We cater to too many foreigners who might not like having to hide in a palm tree to smoke.

Just to show you how it's not about health. Here it is about money.

Then again I haven't been in a bar in ages so I don't know what's going on there. I do know that people smoke outside at the cafe's which are plentiful down here.

[Zavulon]

130. Maryland is going that route, and

I haven't been to any bar or sit-down restaurant since my favorite ones went smoke-free. I couldn't disagree with the ban more than I do. I just take my food to go now, and when I want a beer I reach for the door on my own fridge.

[meow2u3]

132. Obesity rates must be skyrocketing in smoke-free locales

with ex-smokers trading nicotine dependence for binge eating.