Seriesly, the most depressing thing happened at the costume store today...

[XemaSab]

So this dude went into the "war room" and came out wearing a cute sailor top. He was about 25, Hispanic, and didn't look like a total moran.

He went up to the owner of the store and said "Hey, what's this shirt?" She said "That's a sailor uniform from WWII." He's like, "Oh, so it's like 20's? I want something that's 40's."

Kill me now. x(

[crim son]

1. Behold

our next president. :sarcasm:

[Adsos Letter]

2. Instills one with confidence, doesn't it ?

...let me off the planet now, please...

[Lisa]

3. I am hoping, for his sake, that it was an item from the early days of the war?

I seem to recall that in the US Army at any rate, some of the very first American troops to get involved in WWII were wearing gear from years back, before the newer stuff was issued (those doughboy-type brimmed helmets, for example).

Grasping at straws, I know.

[Adsos Letter]

4. You are, quite technically, correct...

but I do think you might have a few straws in your hand However, your desire to be charitable is quite laudable...you don't post much in GD, do you?

:D :hi:

[Lisa]

9. GD? Yes, I do ... but I tend to keep a low profile!

Hi right back to you!

[Adsos Letter]

10. Interesting!...and curious...

you seem much too benevolent to be a poster in GD.

:D

[Lisa]

12. actually, it's been a good week for me ...

I was quoted approvingly, more than once, in the DUzys (and I can't recall the last time that happened).

[XemaSab]

5. Too many straws...

I'm frankly not sure he knew it was a sailor uniform period, even though it was blue with white stripes and the little sailor collar-thing down the back. :P

[Lisa]

8. yes, you're right -- I'm just trying too hard to look for a glimmer of hope ...

If he really did know that much, he'd probably be an actual WWII re-enactor, and he'd have his own gear anyway.


Speaking of which -- I'm a Roman re-enactor, and if you ever need suggestions about historically-accurate weapons and clothing for that era, feel free to ask!

[Adsos Letter]

11. wait, wait, wait...

what part of Roman re-enacting do you do?

[Lisa]

14. late 1st century, early 2nd

Here's the group I work with.

http://www.geocities.com/legioxxxcoh1/


I'm thinking of specializing more as a Roman auxiliary -- there are a ton of legionaries out there, most of them from Western Europe (plenty of documentation when it comes to the gear, etc.). Though with the fall of the Iron Curtain, there's more information coming out from the East now (Romania, etc.). I've promised our local public library that I'll put together educational material for their children's programme ... I would be a Syrian or Egyptian auxiliary who is now stationed near the Danube (allows me to wear cold-weather clothing ... the standard tunic can be rather chilly).

[Adsos Letter]

19. Interesting pictures on that sight...

When I was in Germany I got to see a couple of ruined Roman outposts along the Danube...marvelous at choosing defensible positions, they were.

How much does it cost to outfit like that?

[Lisa]

23. prices are quite reasonable for gear ...

There's been an explosion of places on the internet that sell ready-made equipment, in the past decade. So you don't have to commission custom-made helmets, armour, or swords from artisans for hundreds or thousands of dollars ... or spend months making your own anymore. (Though some people still do this, out of interest or a wish for authenticity.)

I have been able to shop around on eBay, and (with the help of good advice) have not bought too many clunkers ... I've managed to get secondhand stuff for good prices, or off-the-shelf items that can be modified to look more authentic. It's possible to get a decent helmet for a hundred dollars or less, same for swords. And the armour is actually not that difficult to make yourself (I've done a set, in my garage, with basic hand tools).

For what I'm paying for a month's rent ($700) these days, I have acquired a helmet, sword, belt, segmented armour, and dagger -- I've made my own clothes, and could probably do the caligae (military sandals) as well, but have decided to buy them so I can see how they're done professionally. I don't really need the segmented armour, since auxiliaries apparently wore chain mail ... but I'm going to use it in educational demos as an example of "what my boss asked me to clean for him". The most fun project I've got now is to convert a plywood "boogie board" I got at a local surf shop, into a flat oval "clipeus" shield, the type used by Roman auxiliaries (recruits who weren't Roman citizens).

People who do Civil War re-enactments have told me that they actually spend more on their gear than I have.

This is a terrific information source -- it has lots of stuff, very well documented (the guy who runs it, Matthew Amt, is cited in the new edition of Bishop and Coulston's Roman Military Equipment). There's even a page of what NOT to buy.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/


Places I've bought stuff from (generally pretty good, but you have to do your homework because most vendors are trying to unload the older less-accurate stuff):
http://www.lawrensnest.com/roman.html
http://www.soulofthewarrior.com/

[Adsos Letter]

25. Interesting!...

I have a bud who is into Civil War re-enactment...his outfit was quite pricey, what with the sword, rifle, tent, and the basic blues...He gets a real kick out of it, though.

[Lisa]

30. one reason I want to be an auxiliary ...

Some (though of course, not all) of the people in the hobby are vocal pro-war hawks. A few of the folks I've talked to have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to parallels between Rome and present-day US policies, and identify so closely with the characters they're portraying that they seem to be advocating a return to Roman-type attitudes. (Not Matthew, I hasten to add!)

As a Canadian, it occurs to me that having mixed feelings about being economically and militarily tied to a large expanding superpower is ... quite familiar. So it makes sense to take an "outside looking in" view of the imperial project. Auxiliary forces often saw the negative side of Roman domination (bad decisions by their commanders, etc.). Sometimes they rebelled ... some of the biggest defeats for Rome were caused by former allies (Arminius, Civilis, etc.). If the US had considered this, maybe they wouldn't have been so quick to aid bin Laden against the Soviets back in the 1980s.

[Adsos Letter]

31. Ah, Yes, Arminius...

"Give me back my legions!"

[Lisa]

33. Augustus! Now, you have to admit that he sounded better than Bush ...

.... who apparently said, "There's one terrible pilot!" after seeing the WTC attack.

[Adsos Letter]

34. They ALL sound better than Bush...

even if their speeches are recorded by historians with vested interests, of one form or another...I took two classes in Roman History in University, and loved both of them...the Professor, an older lady, really knew her stuff, and made it interesting!

I also took a semester on the Early Middle Ages and one on The Crusades from her...she was great!

:D

[XemaSab]

15. What did women do for um...

the monthlies?

PM me so the thread doesn't get locked. Thanks. :)

[Ellen Forradalom]

6. in the early '60s one of my dad's students at Case Tech

(now Cast Western) asked him, "When was World War II?"

This was THE EARLY SIXTIES.

[Reverend_Smitty]

13. I had a fellow student in one of my college anthropology classes...

think that they used an atomic bomb during the Civil War...and then backpedaled by saying "I don't *do* history" after she heard the collective thud of our jaws hitting the floor.

I sometimes wonder how people function in the real world

[Ellen Forradalom]

24. Antietam Mon Amour

That explains how 600,000 died.

:rofl:

[Adsos Letter]

26. yup

plus Gettysburg, Shiloh, Cold Harbor, Franklin,...and a whole host of diseases...

[Ellen Forradalom]

29. They certainly didn't need the a-bomb for that exercise in slaughter.

[krispos42]

39. I... wah... I don't.... guh... she...

:wow:

:banghead:

[bridgit]

7. sure but you like'em young, dumb, and full of skewed historical facts...

[XemaSab]

17. You have the wrong impression of me entirely.

I get weak in the knees for teh smart lads. :)

[Capn Sunshine]

18. What about old as your dad master of all he surveys yet modest types?

not that I know anyone like that :)

[XemaSab]

20. I'd have to see a picture

:P

[Capn Sunshine]

35. OK.

I was gonna ask you and a few others to meet for a drink anyways just to keep a handle on local DUers .


ready?

[Capn Sunshine]

36. no wait... This is really the real me

Third from left

[Capn Sunshine]

38. no...seriously...this is me

Right after '04 primary wars , delegate to the Democratic National Convention
They still took my freedom

[Capn Sunshine]

41. wait....I have a better one here someplace

ah......here. At the office on casual Friday

[XemaSab]

46. The glasses?

I'm not down.

But yeah, Hekate and Ellen would be cool to get together with, as well as anyone in Ventura. :P

[bridgit]

21. do you like them void of humor as well...

:rofl:

[LibDemAlways]

16. About the teaching of US History....

In California students are exposed to US History in 5th grade, 8th grade, and 11th grade. The problem is all three times the course starts with the early explorers and never gets much beyond the Civil War. It's ridiculous that over 150 years of history, including the entire 20th century, is pretty much ignored while kids learn about the voyages of Columbus multiple times.

I don't know what the history curriculum is like in other states, but in California it sucks.

[XemaSab]

22. This is California we're talking about

and yeah, the teaching of history is appalling, but I figure there's stuff you just KNOW, and history class should fill in the gaps.

I almost think students should take 2 history classes at the same time in high school, world and US. Or geography and civics. Or all four.

Freshman year: World history up to the discovery of the New World. Basic Geography ('cause U.S. Americans don't have maps.)

Sophomore year: World History from Columbus to after the US Civil War. US History from Columbus to the Civil War.

Junior year: World History from the Civil War to the present. US History from the Civil War to the Present.

Senior year: California History ('cause 4th grade didn't do it for me). Civics/Government/Constitutional Law.

[LibDemAlways]

27. Granted, there's no excuse for the guy not to know when WWII

was. (I'll bet he could tell you the starting pitchers in today's World Series game, though.)

The standard Calif. high school history/civics curriculum these days is a half year of geography in 9th grade, a year of world history in 10th, US History in 11th covering approx. the period from Columbus to the end of the Civil War, and a semester of Government in 12th grade. Kids who don't go on to take college history courses have probably never spent a minute in school discussing anything currently going on in the world. With all the emphasis on taking the standardized tests, there's no time. My daughter is in ninth grade and never had a teacher discuss a "current event." It's a huge shame. We're graduating a generation of standardized test takers who are never taught critical thinking skills and who think the only newsworthy events happening involve Britney Spears. Just awful.

[XemaSab]

32. Well yeah...

Hitler, the Holocaust, the beginning of the Cold War, Stalin, the bomb, the war with Japan... like, the outskirts of Santa Barbara were shelled by the Japanese!

And all that's within living memory!

It's not all that important what decade the Civil War was fought in as long as you can place it in the mid/late 1800s. Ditto for the Revolutionary War. And shit, the War of 1812? Who cares when that was fought...

But 20th century history... there isn't that much of it, and what there is... there are clear narratives that you have to follow to make sense of, say, 'Nam. Or even the current war. :shrug:

[krispos42]

40. Santa Barbara was shelled by Japanese submarines, right?

Trying to hit an oil refinery or something?

[XemaSab]

43. Yes.

From what I gather, we were the only target in the mainland US to get hit. :P

[krispos42]

44. Don't forget the balloon bombs!!! n/t

[Adsos Letter]

28. As someone headed for a second career in teaching history here

in California, I couldn't agree with you more XemaSab...but the current state standards are beginning to devalue it even more than in the past...

:(

[fizzgig]

49. it was the same growing up in colorado

us history in 5th, 8th and 10th grades....we studied the hell outta the pilgrims, colonies, civil war and manifest destiny, but really nothing beyond that

[LibDemAlways]

53. Stupid, isn't it? The history that's most

relevent to these kids' lives - the rise of the labor movement, the stock market crash, the great depression, the 2 world wars, the "cold" war, Vietnam, Watergate - they graduate from high school without having studied any of it.

[XemaSab]

54. And here we sorta studied the revolution and the founding,

but not in a meaningful way. It was sort of skimmed, and that's something you could spent at least a semester on. :P

[krispos42]

37. "Yesterday, December 7th, 1921 - "

" - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the German Reich. "

:banghead:

[DarkTirade]

42. Maybe the collar was too tight and it was cutting of circulation to his brain.

[XemaSab]

45. They've got the open slit in front.

[DarkTirade]

47. I got nothin' then.

Then again, never once did I have a history class in public school that got past the industrial revolution and into WWI. So I guess I can't really blame people for not knowing. I only know this stuff because I bothered to learn it myself when I realized I wasn't gonna learn it in school.

[XemaSab]

48. He's got nothing either!

:P

To be frank, most of my history classes were just garbled collections of names and events, and petered off somewhere in the 50's or 60's. :P

Even though we "covered" WWI, I still really don't know shit about it, other than the fact that it was possibly the most depressing conflict ever, even taking the Holocaust, Vietnam, the former Yugoslavia, and the Civil War into account. :(

[DarkTirade]

51. Actually most of my WWI knowlege came because my brother is a big plane fanatic.

Especially WWI era planes. I can't tell you how much time he spent playing Red Baron on our old Tandy 286. :)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

50. I hope she gently informed him that WWII was in the 40s...

I think it's really important to correct people without interjecting alarm with their ignorance. Making people feel stupid often turns them off to learning.

[rhino47]

52. I asked my 15 yo daughters friends

Who we fought in ww2.One responded Canada and africa.The other said england and Germany was our ally

[LibDemAlways]

55. I'll bet they've never been in a class where the

subject was brought up. Same kids could probably tell you something at least remotely factual about Columbus and the Pilgrims, though, since they've had that part of US history pounded into their heads numerous times. It's the last 150 years that gets ignored by the curriculum wonks. A damn shame.