I just got a call from a guy at TGI Fridays...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

We'd went over there last Saturday, and had HORRIBLE service. And I emailed him to just let him know, because we didn't have time when we left. We just left 1.55 as a tip. lol We talked for a few. He found out I used to work there and was really excited about it. He told me to ask for him the next time I was there, and he'd like to meet me. I think it's a really great company, and I really enjoyed for them. Anyway, just thought I'd share. Oh, and next time if you eat there, get the mashed potatoes. There's nothing more heavenly. lol
Duckie

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Dude, give us some more information

Who did you email?

Who called you?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

2. The GM at the store we ate at where I got the bad service.

Greg something...why?
Duckie

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. I didn't need a name

It's just that your post was very unclear with all the pronouns and lack of detail I had no idea if it was a manager, a corporate rep, the matire'd, the waiter, or what.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

7. Sorry, I do that sometimes...

Not on purpose...It's just the people in my life tend to be able to know what I'm saying. I'm sorry.
Duckie

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. That's okay

It's just that, when one is communicating through writing, it's important to be clear enough to get one's point across - which, generally speaking, tends to be most violated by people assuming that others know "who" they are speaking about, and the circumstances.

It's simple enough to say "I emailed the manager of the TGIF" instead of "the guy" and after that, it's obvious who you mean when you say "he".

Sorry to be obnoxious about this, if I am being obnoxious, but as much I really truly do love hearing other people's stories, it's very frustrating when I have to keep asking, "Who are you talking about now?" or "what place are you talking about now?" It's important to mark out when one is changing subject, location, etc.

And certainly, you aren't the only who does this, so I'm not singling you in particular amongst all of humanity.

[ant]

3. I don't know about that

I'd be a little wary of identifying myself to the staff as the one who complained about the service, no matter how friendly you are with the supervisor/manager.

Even if the guy you spoke to was the waiter...I don't know. Perhaps I'm too cynical, or maybe I just know too many disgruntled restaurant workers...

[frylock]

4. clean food please..

</jacks utter disgust>

[YellowRubberDuckie]

5. Clean Food?!

'Splain Lucy!!
Duckie

[CanuckAmok]

28. Fight Club:

"How's the clam chowder?"

"Not for you, sir"

I'd love to fill you in, but the First and Second Rules of Fight Club are "You do not talk about Fight Club"


"The next person to come through this door gets...a...lead salad!"

[JohnnyAmerica]

10. Bad service made better

I have worked in the business for 20 years, always in the trenches, and I tell you now: write the letter, make the phone call. Speak your mind. There is a truism in the business: if the guest has a good experience, he’ll tell a friend. If the guest has a bad experience, he’ll tell ten friends. All restaurants practice “guest recovery”, a policy designed to get the guest back and “Wow” them with the best they have to offer. A successful “guest recovery” cuts the ten friends to, hopefully, five.
Never be afraid to voice your concerns.
The only way a business can get better is by listening to the concerns of the consumer.
Over the past ten years, the level of service in this country has declined. That’s a bad trend. What’s worse, the expectation of service has declined. If the guest expects less, he will get less.
So, write the letter. Make the call. Let’s work together and make our service experience more enjoyable.

[Susang]

14. I agree and disagree

I agree that you should write the letter, complain, etc.. Voice your opinions and complaints, it's what management is for.

However, I do not believe restaurant service has declined. I believe customer entitlement has skyrocketed. When I started my first restaurant job (J. Ross Browne's Whaling Station in Kalamazoo, Michigan 1984), customers were far more polite, friendly and understanding. They realized that humans actually had to make their drinks and food, therefore mistakes could and would happen. I had no experience when I was hired and although I tried my best, I was certainly not perfect. Most of the time people were kind and understanding of my rookie errors.

At my most recent job (an extremely high end boutique restaurant in Chicago) I was routinely abused by customers, insulted, berated, and humiliated, most often for things out of my control. This attitude is exacerbated by hunger and alcohol to an amazing extent. I have been physically assaulted, verbally abused and it actually seems that the nicer I tried to be to them, the ruder they were to me.

I've kept a journal of my experiences ever since college and upon re-reading them, I discovered that the service you feel is diminishing is actually a reflection of the entitlement that most Americans seem to feel when dealing with service employees. So I left the restaurant business and moved temporarily to an area of retail where I do not have to deal with customers face to face any longer. The customers are still demanding, but they no longer can claim control of my income.

[truthspeaker]

44. Many managers cannot differentiate between legitamate complaints

and "customers" trying to rip them off. Everyone gets an apology and a gift certificate. The employee's version of events is ignored.

Also, corporate bigwigs don't seem to understand (or care) that every time you cut labor customer service will decline.

[ProudGerman]

8. but its wednesday

:shrug:

[Susang]

11. You left a poor tip and think that's funny?

I just recently finished 19 years of working in food & beverage service and I could never "LOL" about leaving a bad tip, no matter how bad the service might have been, particularly if I had worked at the place in question. :wtf:

I hope you're not still working in restaurants, because tipping karma does exist, take it from someone who knows.

[DemoTex]

12. My standard base-tip is 20% on the pre-tax total

I'll go up a little for exceptional service. That's most of the time, really. Favorite restaurant waiters/waitresses get 25%, always.

I consider 15% a penalty tip and I seldom, if ever, go lower.

[Beaker]

38. i used to wait tables, and i'm pretty much the same way-

but i usually start at 20% of the total, including tax (I guess I'm a bottom-line kind of guy)...
BUT-
if I pay for the meal with a credit card, I always try to leave the tip in cash...the severs prefer it, especially with good tips.

wasn't it under ronnie raygun that they started taxing assumed tips of waitpeople?...or was it?...whose shitty idea was that anyway?

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. No, that's nothing but BS in my opinion

I totally believe in tipping well, because I know the plight of the wait staff. I tend to tip at least 20%, and for small food bills, like $10 or less, I'll tip 30%.

But if the service is bad - screw it. No tip. I know the waiter is being screwed with a ridiculously low minimum wage, but NOTHING - and I mean NOTHING - excuses poor service and a bad (@#^% attitude.

If you feel that you deserve a huge tip just because of low wages, than you are sadly mistaken and living in the world of fantasy and really are buying into the republican lie that democrats feel everyone is entitled to everthing they want.

Screw that. Either serve me well, or hopefully you'll get fired. If you are a poor waiter/waitress, you will get no compassion from me (unless you're new or obviously have a heinous sickness). But expecting a tip because you are "entitled to one"? F-ing no way at all. And if you act entitled with me, you'll get nothing.

[Susang]

15. That's a real compassionate attitude you've got there

Would I be correct in assuming that you do not work in food service?

Here's the deal...Americans could easily abolish the tipping system if they chose, but we do not. The reason being that business doesn't want to pay living wages to food service employees and Americans don't want to pay what prepared food would actually cost if they did. Everyone is "entitled" to a living wage. Everyone.

[opiate69]

16. BUt..

You are not entitled to a tip. A tip is given to express appreciation for extraordinary service. Not for simply doing your job.

[Susang]

18. Not according to the IRS

They assume a tip on every dollar you sell when you are a waiter, whether you make it or not. If you are stiffed by the patron, you end up owing tax on top of the $2.50 an hour you are paid. Also, the days of not claiming your tips are over and have been for some time.

Tips would be an expression of appreciation if the person being tipped were being adequately paid by their employer in the first place. The way the system works in this country, they are a matter of life or death. If you think they are optional, then you haven't worked in industry.

[opiate69]

20. Then..

All you poor underappreciated food service workers need to get together and demand a living wage.(Or, novel idea.. don't make waitressing a career choice...) I'd much rather pay an extra $10/plate then be forced to give a gratuity to an inept, surly, undeserving server.

[Susang]

23. Why shouldn't someone make waitressing a career choice?

Why is service considered such a demeaning career in this country?

As for the extra $10 a plate, restaurants in this country (and here in Chicago) have tried it and it has not been successful. I won't speculate on the reasons why, but almost all the restaurants who have tried that system have gone back to tipped service, mostly blaming economic reasons.

[opiate69]

25. Well, let's put it this way, then..

If someone wants to make waitressing/bartending/supermarket checkout a career choice, going into it knowing it pays sub-standard wages, then fine.. make that choice. But don't expect the rest of us to pay for your poor career choices. I know this probably sounds extremely freeper-ish of me, but, I can't stand the thought of being forced to pay additional money for crappy service. Hell, as long as we're at it, why should a server at a 5 star restaurant (like the Cliffhouse in Tacoma) make bigger tips than one who works at Denny's? (COnsidering the 15-20% rule). They both do the same job, and the same service, and I'm already paying for the "ambiance" at The CLiffhouse in the cost of the meal. The current way of handling gratuities is asinine, and needs to be changed.

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. Yep

Meaning no offense, but one goes into food service, at the waitress/waiter level, with full reocognition that the pay level is low and the big benefit is in tips - which means, the big benefit is actually treating people like humanbeings. And if you can get into a decent, multi-star restuarant, then those tips are gonna be CRANKIN' high.

And - let's be honest - the waiter/waitress at the 5 star restaurant is far better trained, and has far more demands, than the person at Denny's. Waitstaff at a good restaurant have far more needed knowledge of product and ability to serve the customers than a Denny's or IHOP or other smallish restaurant. Sorry if I am offending any low-level restaurant waitstaff, but let's be homest - a good restaurant DEMANDS that its waitstaff know what the menu is, which means knowing the sauces, the herbs used, the quality of the freshness of the day's ingredients, and more than likely how to read at least french or italian.l

But there is never an excuse for poor, dehumanizing service.

[Susang]

32. That is the most elitist piece of excrement I've heard all week

I hope you are happy in whatever line of work you've chosen to be superior in.

I'll address your ill informed points and then gracefully leave you to your ivory tower existence.

Waiters at Denny's do not do the same job as waiters at Charlie Trotters. I know people who work at both places. I have worked at similar establishments on both ends.

A waiter at the highest end of the spectrum spends an enormous amount of time on education. I formerly worked at Red Light restaurant here in Chicago. It is considered the top Asian restaurant in the city. I attended wine conferences, sake seminars, food ingredient tastings and service meetings regularly; all on my own time and all without pay. I knew every ingredient in every dish without hesitation. I knew the wine list verbatim, as well as being able to pair wines with the appropriate dishes, suggest sake, cocktails or beer that complemented the food and after dinner drinks. I could tell you how much the sake was filtered, what grade it was and what flavor notes were most significant.

I won't bore you with any more of my specific talents regarding this job, but suffice it to say, most laypeople do not know all the major varietals and what foods they best pair with, how to perfectly debone a fish or how to mix any drink, even the obscure ones (yes, I bartend too). The smartest, most talented people I have ever met have worked in this industry.

Denny's (& other such establishments) deserve the most empathy. Their job is hard physical labor that involves incredible amounts of multitasking, people skills and crisis management. I worked in a very popular Loop diner and it was non-stop stress form 11:00 AM until 3:00 PM. Waitressing of this type is considered as one of the most stressful jobs, up there with air traffic controllers, firefighters and police officers. The reason? Everyone holds you responsible, yet you have almost no real control over your working situation.

I'll not bother you any more with my experience on this. You know what the reality of the situation is, you can make the choice whether to tip or not. Sure, the system for tipping should change. But it's not going to for a myriad of reasons, at least not for a long time. When the person serving me my sandwich only makes about $2.50 an hour, has to tip out on average three additional employees and is taxed on the monetary amount he/she sold me, you can bet I'm going to tip, no matter what I perceive the attitude to be.

[Madrone]

41. Amen!

<<<Denny's (& other such establishments) deserve the most empathy. Their job is hard physical labor that involves incredible amounts of multitasking, people skills and crisis management. I worked in a very popular Loop diner and it was non-stop stress form 11:00 AM until 3:00 PM. Waitressing of this type is considered as one of the most stressful jobs, up there with air traffic controllers, firefighters and police officers. The reason? Everyone holds you responsible, yet you have almost no real control over your working situation.>>>

Susang, I worked at the Kalamazoo Denny's for 5 years. You said you worked at the Whaling Co., so I know you know where Denny's is - corner of Cork and Sprinkle.

I've been the only one that's shown up for work. After working there for years I knew the menu so well that I started cooking behind the lines when cooks wouldn't show up. I'd work a full waitressing shift, then go behind the line and cook all night. One night after getting home I got called back in, half the staff walked out, half didn't show up. I went back, the manager left shortly afterwards, and there was me and one dishwasher in the WHOLE restaurant. I had to seat people, take their order, go back and cook it, then deliver and finally cash them out. Thankfully, customers took pity on me and if someone came in when I was cooking would tell the new customers to have a seat and I would be with them asap. Most also kept their food orders VERY simple and quick so I wouldn't spend all my time in the kitchen. I've worked 24 hours straight, covering shifts. I've had nights where I was terribly embarrassed by the service I gave - people got their drinks after waiting 20+ minutes, didn't see me again until they got their food, and didn't see me AGAIN after that. There was nothing I could do - I had too many tables, not enough help, and I can't clone myself.

Tips were OFTEN poor because of the circumstances I had to work under - and it wasn't fair. The restaurant got ALL their money - I got screwed because the restaurant had terrible staffing problems and didn't have to pay me more than $2.50/hour.

Midnight shifts were the worst - I've been assaulted physically and verbally, had tables of drunks think it very funny to each ask for one thing at a time, keeping me running back and forth. There have been fights, people throwing food, you NAME it, I've seen it and had to deal with it.

Then you have the cooks back in the kitchen getting pissed off and throwing things because they are slammed and overworked. They send food out looking like shit, and you have to decide if it's better to ask for it to be recooked, further setting off the cooks, or take it out anyway and hope the customer won't notice.

It was horrible, and I worked my ASS off. I tried my best, but yeah, sometimes my service sucked, and sometimes my attitude did as well. I'm ONLY human.

[Susang]

46. DemocRat you are a hero to me!

I've been to that Denny's many times, so I know what you've had to deal with just to make a dollar. I'm proud to say that if you have ever waited on me, I probably tipped you around 50-100% of the bill; I always did when I ate there ( I lived in K'zoo from 1983 until 1987). Wouldn't that be wild?

[opiate69]

47. For christ's sake!

If it was so damned horrible, why did you choose to continue working there?!?!?

on edit:
I'm truly sorry your work experience sucked, but, cry me a river. I worked for Goodwill as a "truck helper" for a few years, and I can tell you horror stories abour having to go around in the rain, picking up all manner of refuse.. including: Excrement, dead puppies, deer entrails and household trash, which the good citizens of Tacoma and Pierce County were kind enough to "donate" to our donation centers. For $4.85/hour. It was my job, so I did it, day in and day out, until I finally decided to better myself and improve my job skills. You were offered a job, presumably knowing ahead of time what the pay and benefits were, and you took it. Your job was to serve the public in a welcoming, professional manner. If you were not able to do that, you were not deserving of gratuity.

[Susang]

50. "For Christ's sake!" back atcha

You must have been extremely lucky to have has so many fabulous job opportunities to "choose" from. Some of us have not had as many choices in employment opportunities, particularly in back in Michigan in the early eighties. Trust me, I was there, jobs were not plentiful. This appears to be a subject that you have little experience with.

[opiate69]

51. Ha!

You don't need to educate me on bad job markets, having moved from Eastern Connecticut in '89 (thanks to one of the worst job markets in America) all the way to Washington State for a minimum wage job. THe fact remains that there are thousands of Junior colleges and Vocational schools, where just about anybody can get some kind of finacial aid, and improve their job skills, thus making low-paying jobs such as food service and grocery clerk suited to college-students and secondary-income workers. Not careers.

[Susang]

54. I think you might need some further education

Particularly since the media has been chock-full of stories about professionals with advanced degrees having to deliver pizzas and wait tables for a living. You assume that everyone measures personal success by what they do to make money. That's really pathetic and sad.

[opiate69]

58. What??

" You assume that everyone measures personal success by what they do to make money"

No, I don't, and I don't really know what you're basing the inferrence on, but.. this thread happens to be about money, and your belief that service workers are entitled to more of my money, whether they meet my expectations or not! And, for the record, my wife was a waitress/bartender/tobacconist for a long time, and we are very generous when it comes to tipping, but, dammit, there is no entitlement attached to tips, and I refuse to reward bad service.

[Susang]

62. Hey, whatever

You rant that "anyone" can get a student loan, go to community college, etc., to better themselve and avoid a career in food service, never once acknowledging that service may actually be a rewarding job for some people.

So feel free to tip as you like and feel no guilt, even though you know the system is inequitable. The current tipping system gives the diner an inflated sense of control over the server and that's why I don't forsee it changing any time soon.

[opiate69]

63. An inflated sense of control???

Are you serious? Admittedly, I can see how people take the dynamics of the server/customer relationship to extremes, but, the bottom line is the server's job is to serve. If I'm paying $100 for my wife and I to eat dinner, you're damn right I expect a certain level of service. Call it control if you must, but, the servers exist to provide a service to the customer. Not the other way around.

[Susang]

65. Yes, I am serious

Obviously, you do not agree with me and for that reason, I am glad I am out of the food service game. Certainly the server's job is to provide service. The customer has a role to play as well if they want to insure a successful experience and it's not just providing payment.

[opiate69]

68. ok, then..

"The customer has a role to play as well if they want to insure a successful experience and it's not just providing payment."

I agree.. nobody, in any job, needs to put up with abuse. Customers doneed to afford the staff the respect they deserve, and I truly try to do that. On the other hand, I won't accept a server acting like I'm bothering them simply by asking for a bottle of tabasco, or for the drink I ordered which they forgot to bring.

[Madrone]

52. What YOU don't seem to get -

is that it is also the job of management to staff their fucking restaurant instead of sticking one poor sod to do the work of 5 people.

It was not my job to serve "the public" in a "welcoming, professional manner" while being call a "white bitch" a "fucking whore", being tripped while walking with a tray, having food thrown at me, having fights break out in front of me, ducking flying silverware and glassware, or whatever other abuse the "wonderful public so deserving of my charm" decided to dish out. But I did it. For $2.52 per freaking hour.

The POINT of my story wasn't to "cry you a river" - but to explain the things that people doing those jobs go through while TRYING to do a good job and keep a smile on their face - and then try to figure out how to pay the bills at the end of the day when there wasn't ever enough money to do so. I don't still work at that job, I live in another state, and I am doing well for myself. We all have to start somewhere. If everyone with a shitty job could "choose", at that moment to walk out and not return and could find work somewhere else making great money in a good environment, who would be left to put together your Big Mac while you wait in the drive-thru?

It's not always possible to choose to do something else right away - and some people just can't - for whatever reason. Transportation, education, itelligence - not everyone has the opportunity or resources to better themselves. What about those people?

[Rabrrrrrr]

49. I think that of all waitstaff, I am most in awe of those

who are willing to work the night shift and deal with all the drunken assholes.

I don't know how they (you) do it. I used to hang out a perkins late at night (great place to study and a never-ending pot of coffee...) and saw some of the most amazing BS the servers had to put up with.

It should be illegal for people to go to a restaurant when they're already drunk.

[FlaGranny]

42. I have to say, my cousin has been a waitress

most of her life. SHE does not tip for bad service either. She has always worked in good restaurants and made good money from tips and she has no patience for bad service. At one point she was making between $700-$800 a week.

Edit: spelling in subject

[YellowRubberDuckie]

36. That is not true..

YOu have to CLAIM your tips when you clock out after your shift. And they tax your 2.15 an hour you get for just being there. They don't ASSUME Anything. Are you sure you work in Food Service, because you're not getting it very accurate?
Duckie

[Susang]

53. Sorry Duckie, it's you who are wrong

Would you care to care to check out the restaurant I've worked at for the last 6 1/2 years? http://www.redlight-chicago.com

The majority of restaurants now claim your tips for you based on your sales and have done so for at least 5 years. If the restaurant you work for is suspected of not claiming adequately, the business and all the employees are audited. I have personally been through this twice and I know of what I speak. I was one of the few who passed through the audit with flying colors, since I have always kept a tip journal. So when I use the word "assume" I am using it in the legal sense. If the IRS looks at your sales and sees your claimed tips are less than what they should be, they levy the taxes and penalties accordingly. I've seen it happen to many of my fellow waiters and waitresses and it is not pretty.

Before that, you were required to claim them yourself on your timecard and if your tips did not equal a minimum of 8% of your total sales you had to revise the amount that you claimed. By law you have always been required to claim exactly what you made. Many tipped employees did not and that's what led to the current enforcement regulations.

[Rabrrrrrr]

56. And meanwhile, Ken Lay hangs out with the Chimp In Chief

and Neil Bush never did serve time for stealing billions.

Yeah, fair world.

So they can screw you on your pay, legally, and then the government itself comes in and screws you again, forcing you to pay taxes on tips you might not have earned, just in case you didn't report them properly or are lying.

Awfully damn pre-emptive of them.

When did the Fed start that BS?

Do they do the same for other tip-generating professions, like hairstylists, cabbies, etc.? Or is just waitstaff?

[Susang]

64. Honestly, I don't know

My experience is only with food service. I know a couple of hairstylists, but we've never actually spoken about this issue. If they're going after restaurant employees, I would have to assume that they would be very aware of other tipped employees as well. It sucks, because I've actually always paid my taxes. My fellow restaurant employees used to laugh at me because I actually claimed what I made. It didn't seem right not to.

The IRS started assuming tax based on sales around 1985 (if memory serves). They didn't start aggressively enforcing it until the early nineties.

[Rabrrrrrr]

66. That is just sooooooooooooo maddening

I always thought that at least the waitstaff situation was somewhat alleviated by the ability to lie about their tips and screw the government that is screwing them.

Apparently not.

Crikey, that puts a whole new spin on things.

I'm so gald the gov. is more interested in whether waitresses at denny's are paying their fair share of taxes on a few thousand bucks' worth of tips instead of going after American heroes like Ken Lay and George Shrub for insider trading and stuff. God knows that those crimes PALE - and I mean PALE - in comparison to a single mom trying to feed her kids and so not reporting 30% of her tips.

And it's also wonderful that we spend all that money to prosecute the Denny's waitresses so that our servicemen can get foodstamps and WIC in order to eat.

[Susang]

67. You can thank Ronald Reagan for that one

You should see what a team of IRS agents invading a Hilton to audit it's tipped employees looks like. I was petrified and I kept the requisite tip journal, unlike most of my colleagues. They threatened us with huge fines and even jail time. They also highly encouraged us to inform on our co-workers.

[Rabrrrrrr]

69. God bless Republicans!!

Oh wait, they're angels, so they're already blessed.

:puke: :puke:

Fuckers. And I don't mean that lightly.

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. Did you even bother to read what I wrote?

Or did you just go off an "entitlement" and Rabrrrrrr-despising agenda-driven tirade?

I think the latter.

Why don't you actually READ my post, without your emotional baggage clouding your knee-jerk reactionistic judgment, before you condemn me?

I actually have worked food service. If you had actually bothered to read my post, you would realize that I understand the plight, and that I normally TIP MORE THAN IS FUCKING EXPECTED because I have deep compassion for the idiocy of the stupudly low minimum wage of waiters/waitresses.

I know in the past you have considered me less than human, but that's no reason to refuse to read what I actually have to say. Read the *@(&^$ thing, why don't you, and maybe you'll understand.

Don't be so offensive.

[Susang]

22. I did read your post

And as far as being offensive goes, you've far surpassed anything I wrote. Congratulations.

Now try reading what I've written. I realize you said that you normally tip more than what is expected. You also said that there is no excuse for poor service or a bad attitude and therefore, no tip should be given. I disagreed with you and correctly assumed that the food service industry is not your career choice. How was that offensive to you?

Granted, I do have emotional baggage where this subject is concerned, considering that I have spent approximately 20 years of my life working in it. It has been my sole source of income until very recently and I have worked in virtually every aspect of the business, from lowly dishwasher to GM and everything in between.

BTW, I have never considered you "less than human", no matter what you may think. That is possibly the most offensive thing in your post. I may have disagreed with you, perhaps vehemently, but to claim that of me is patently false and wrong.

[Rabrrrrrr]

24. It was offensive because you said I was "not compassionate"

And considering my high tolerance of bad service, and my normally high tipping attitude, that was, on your part, an offensive statement.

I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but, as low as waiter/waitress wages are, I don't buy into the bullshit attitude that they should be rewarded for treating me like a war criminal because some jingoistic ill-placed liberal attitude tells me I should offer my left arm to anyone who asks for it.

Screw it.

And I don't work in food service any more, but I've been in the service industry - in a capacity that DOES NOT include tipping - for twenty years, and I still believe in treating people like human beings. But that's just me. If you want to think that a waiter/waitress has some kind of inherent, god-given right to a tip, no matter how they treat people, then so be it.

But I don't buy it. If you think they do, then we have no ability to be in dialogue.

[Susang]

27. Your words

"Screw that. Either serve me well, or hopefully you'll get fired. If you are a poor waiter/waitress, you will get no compassion from me (unless you're new or obviously have a heinous sickness). But expecting a tip because you are "entitled to one"? F-ing no way at all. And if you act entitled with me, you'll get nothing."

That is why I sarcastically wrote that you had a compassionate attitude. You stated you usually tip higher than the norm and then you wrote the above. I do not consider the above statement compassionate and since I do not know you personally and only have your words to go by, I reacted to them.

Since the food/restaurant system relies on sub-minimum wages to survive and the IRS now levies tax based on sales, not on declarations of tips, then I believe that tipping is as much of a moral decision as shopping at WalMart, eating fast food or buying clothing from The Gap. The low prices for food come from somewhere and the waiter who doesn't get tipped still has to tip the busboy, the bartender, the food runner and believe it or not, the host/hostess. All I'm asking is that people know what the system is based on and act accordingly.

[Rabrrrrrr]

30. I guess I don't understand your misunderstanding

to summarize my point - treat me like a human being, and you get tipped. Don't treat me like one, and you won't get tipped.

And a waiter/waitress who has such a bad attitude that they act like they deserve a tip automatically just becuase they are serving me, screw 'em.

I base my tips on service, as should be, and I tip more than expected for ANY service that at least recognizes I am a human being. But if the service treats me like a f-ing war criminal, than they won't get anything.

Jesus, I tip the Starbucks people 20 cents for a ^#!^@ grande coffee if the minumim they do is treat me like a human being.

Stop dehumanizing me, and please make some attempt to understand me. The only people I aqm willing to condemn are those who thingk they are ENTITLED, ipso facto, to a huge tip without making some attempt to earn it.

I'm totally a liberal, and I totally believe that if one wants to have something, one should at least attempt earn it. Maybe you don't feel that way, or maybe I'm misreading you (in which case I apologize, and ask for you to clarify), but as low as waiter wages are, and as much as the IRS screws waitstaff, let'sd be honest - no one is strong-armed into waitstaff as a career, and to expect me, as a consumer, to pay your rent even though you treat me like a war criminal, is insane. I hate to see people go hungry and etc., but when they have a pathetic attitude of entitlement, my compassion leaves me, because they are showing utter disrespect to me first.

[Susang]

33. How is disagreeing with you dehumanizing you?

Was that sentence directed at me, because I think that I have in no way tried to dehumanize you.

And as for why people end up as waiters, I'm not even going to open up that can of worms. Have you noticed the economy lately? I started waitressing in 1983 during end of Reagan's first term and it's like deja vu. The reason I went after the job in the first place was that there were no campus jobs available, Reagan had just changed the student loan guidelines so I was no longer eligible for any type of aid, including federally guaranteed student loans. I had the option of working full time at the only job I managed to get, take out ridiculously high interest private loans or quit school. People do what they have to do whether they are suited for it or not. It may not be what you would choose, but everyone is different.

[WillParkinson]

37. Sorry SusanG...I have to disagree!

I *DO* work in the food service industry. I always do my very best to ensure my guests have a good time and enjoy what they are being given. Weird thing? I don't even have to do it! My 15% is automatic.

My co-workers do whatever it takes to get by. They don't care what kind of service they give. They, too, get 15% automatic.

I think the tipping system is a good thing as long as you are giving the best service you can. However, it is not mandatory to tip. A tip, like a wage, is something you are supposed to earn.

When I go out I hardly ever give less than 25%. I went to dinner with Paul and our friend Ken. We had our favorite waitress who was, at the time, training another waitress AND a hostess. When the time came to pay the bill she took my credit card and went to the counter to show the two new staff members how to process the card. She finished up by saying, "And the rest of this is my tip." The new waitress put her hand to her mouth and said, "Oh my god!"

Only once did I not tip a server. My mom, Paul, and I went to breakfast (before I went vegan). I asked for an omelette and a glass of milk. My food came but my glass of milk didn't. I asked the server for it. She said she'd bring it. She seated other people. She gave them coffee. She took their orders. By the time I got my glass of milk I was done with my breakfast. I refused to leave a tip. While I do understand her desire to take care of the other customers she should have finished serving the customers she already had.

So, yes, treat me decent and I'll give you a great tip. Treat me like an annoyance or a problem then we'll have to rethink it.

[Susang]

48. Then I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree

I would never withold a tip just because an overworked server forgot my glass of milk. I appreciate that you tip extravagently when you receive good service, but people are human and do make mistakes. I know I have many times, and I will bet you have as well, and still received a generous, if undeserved tip.

I have never, nor will I ever intentionally stiff a waiter, no matter how bad their attitude. They might have to face the dreaded 15%, but never will I stiff anyone, ever.

[Beaker]

39. I try to take into account the amount of tables in the waiter's station-

after all, if things are shorthanded, or seating badly managed- it isn't always the server's fault that they can't be at your constant beck & call.

[Seldona]

29. I too have been in service for a long time.

I tip 20 to 30% average as well.

But I will in no way tip a rude, lazy, or otherwise bad server.

I do not hold the food quality against them, and I can see if a person is busy. That in no way effects my tipping. In fact even if I have to wait and I see that person getting slammed, I will leave more.

But if a person truly is a bad server, and we all know they are out there, they should get nothing imo.

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. Damn right

Some friends and I went to a steakhouse here in NYC - 6 of us, total bill almost $500, and we left almost niothing as a tip, because the two waiters we had treated us like shit the entire meal. And we were dressed well, and ordered $100 bottles of wine (which for a couple people in the group was actually really slumming down, since we had two people who were used to $1,000 bottles or better, but some of us in no way could afford that). We were totally pleasant, never in any way obnxious - but the waiter decided we were subhuman, so we screwed him in the end with a couple dollar's tip.

But he sucked, he was rude, and he was offensive.

And I have never felt bad about stuffing him, especially since he came to use after we paid and said "Get out of my restaurant, cheapy cheapy".

There is no excuse for shit-ass poor service,and I refuse to reward it, whether its one of NYC's "finest" steakhouse (Gallaghers, and the steak actually sucks there, so don't even bother) or Denny's.

[SoCalDem]

34. The way to get excellent service every time, everwhere

1)....When the server FIRST comes to my table, I always LOOK them in the face, and smile & say Hello and then something like.. "Wow , you look really busy"..(we usually eat out in the primetime, and the places we go ARE busy)..Lots of people eat out with the idea that THEY are the only customers that matter..Their server is there ONLY for THEM.. By acknowledging that the server might be tired, harried, or stressed out, it at least lets them know that you see them as a person, not a robot..

2)....Say "May I PLEASE have........ when you get time"..instead of "Get me a ......" or "I need a......"... Don't wave a napkin, snap your fingers or say "Girl" or "waiter" .. If you need something and you cannot *find* your server, just get up and ask the closest one you can find, to have *your* server come to your table..

3).... When they bring you your food, say "Thank you".. (yeh, I know it's their *job* to bring it to you, but why not say thanks anyway?)

4)....If there is something wrong with the food, don't blame the server..they did not order the meat, cook the food, or create the recipe....

5)....If you have a coupon or gift certificate, figure the tip on the actual amount of the food, not the discounted total..

6)....If you tip more than expected, and you eat there regularly, your service will improve over time..I can always get a certain place that we go , to make me an item that they no longer even have on their menu, because the staff there likes us :loveya:

7)....If you have bad service, ask to speak to the manager *before* you leave. Allow him/her to "fix" it for you right then. They do want you to come back, and there may be circumstances that you do not know about, and he may have an explanation to you..(3 people may have called in sick, and they might be short-handed, something in the kitchen might have happened that made the service slow..any number of things)...

This is what has worked for us...:)

[FlaGranny]

45. Your prescription for good service

is a LIFE prescription. It is nothing more than common courtesy and treating people decently. Everyone should do it all the time. What a world we'd have. When we eat out, we are generous with our tipping. We've given mostly extremely generous tips and, on occasion, poor tips - according to the way we are treated. Nothing, generates a poor tip like rudeness.

Once, when we were eating out, one of our meals was dropped in the kitchen. The waitress came out and explained this and apologized. She got a nice tip for her efforts. If she had just ignored us and made us wait without an explanation, I doubt she would have gotten half what we gave her.

[Susang]

57. Amen

n/t

[Pithlet]

60. I agree

I almost never encounter this bad service that some talk about. It does happen occasionally. Those who encounter it on a regular basis may want to consider their own attitude, and if maybe that isn't contributing somehow. I know a lot of people who treat wait staff like scum, and I don't even think they're aware of it. They are the ones who complain the loudest about getting lousy service all the time. They are also the ones who usually have the "It's a tip, not an entitlement" attitude.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

35. I felt bad about leaving the bad tip...

But I'm NOT going to reward someone for not even taking the time to give a crap if we're there or not. I used to be a server too, for a few months...and let me tell you it's not that hard of a job. I know a lot of idiots who have done it and succeeded.
Not to mention just a few weeks ago, I left a guy a 13 dollar tip on a 35 dollar ticket. Why? Because he was good, and because the chick that was sharing his station got a 1.50 tip because of poor poor poor service a couple nights before. We heard her tell him we tipped poorly. So, we made her look stupid. It was really fun because she was a real bitch to us. She talked to us like we were children, and that pisses me off.
Duckie

[Susang]

59. A Few Months?

Why, you must be an expert on the subject! :eyes:

[MissMillie]

40. 15% to 20% for good service

10% or less for poor service.

Sorry.... but if you're expecting a good tip you should provide good service.

[NightTrain]

17. The TGI Friday's in Farmington, CT, just closed its doors.

The employees received no advance notice, which led them to stage a protest march on the property.

OK, if the place was losing money, I can understand the company closing it. But they could've at least had the decency to let the employees know ahead of time that they'd be losing their jobs!

So forgive me, Duckie, if I find it hard to believe that TGI Friday's is "a great company."

[snooper2]

21. same as above

The TGI Fridays by my work in East Plano shut down. We always went to Love & War instead. (Dallas, TX)

[Robb]

43. For me it's very simple.

What is the couple of bucks in tip worth to me, versus the difference it could make for the server?

There are millions of reasons for a customer to perceive their service has been poor. Only a handful of those have anything to do with the intentions of the server. I also recognize that there's zero chance of me fully appreciating the situation for any given server on a particular night -- or for that matter, whatever might be coloring my own perceptions that evening.

Playing the odds, I always tip 20%. If someone kicks ass, I'll tip more. End of story; anything else smacks of hubris.

[Pithlet]

61. Exactly!

That is how I look at it, too. Very well said.

[ChoralScholar]

55. It would have to be overtly belligerent service for me to leave a bad tip

For instance, I frequent a Denny's in Little Rock (Shackleford Rd.), and I got a waitress who did at least bring us our initial drink. However, the cook brought our food out to us, and the waitress never came back to refill our drinks. I sat with an empty glass and watched her for more than 45 minutes stand at the counter and talk to her friends and ignore us.

Now... THAT does not deserve a tip. I did leave a dollar. But she did not do her job, and deserves nothing. She didn't even deserve the 2.50/hour she gets paid for just breathing the air of the restaurant. IMO she should have been reprimanded or fired.

But most of the time, I am an extremely gracious tipper, and make allowances for bad service due to short-handedness or high customer volume. But to blatantly ignore a customer (we were almost the only ones there) is inexcusable.