Mensa Head Lists Smartest Shows Ever

[TZ]

'House,' 'NCIS,' 'Law & Order' Among Current Shows Picked

POSTED: 10:59 am EST February 15, 2008
Some people think that TV rots your brain, but the head of an organization for smart people has a list of what he said are the smartest shows ever made.

Jim Werdell, the chairman of Mensa International, gave his list of the 10 most intelligent shows ever in honor of the end of the Hollywood writers' strike.

In an interview with Fancast.com, he said the top 10 shows of all time are:

"M*A*S*H"
"Cosmos" (with Carl Sagan)
"CSI"
"House"
"West Wing"
"Boston Legal"
"All in the Family"
"Frasier"
"Mad About You"
"Jeopardy"
http://www.nbc4.com/entertainment/15311126/detail.html

Hmm. Interesting choices. "CSI" and "House" don't surprise me. But "Mad About You"?
:shrug:

[Bennyboy]

1. CSI? That guy is an idiot!

Seriously. All of the CSI shows are so fucking stupid that they are laughable. So many procedural things are impossible and would never ever happen in a real situation.

[Cabcere]

6. I admit that I enjoy watching CSI occasionally, but I do have to agree

:hi: Over the summer I worked with a program that offered kids fun classes in various subjects, and one of the classes for high schoolers was a basic forensic science course. I was talking with the instructor one day, and somehow the subject of CSI (the show) came up, and he said that it makes him sick to watch that show because everything is just so wrong.

[TZ]

13. Yes but its gotten people really interested

in forensic sciences in a way that hadn't happened before. I had a conversation at lunch with coworkers about CSI, we all kind of like it but do laugh at the inaccuracies. We all were like whats with the dim lights in the lab?
And one time I heard them mention the assay I do and they totally mispronounced it.
:eyes:

[Bennyboy]

16. Not just that

But the police procedues too. The way that suspects and witnesses cross each other in the hallways. Taking suspects in and out of the front door. Busses with huge signs on them saying the Prison system. I mean it is just stupid.

And the forensics part of it on top of all that....

[Raejeanowl]

43. When Did They Claim It Was A "Reality" Show?

It's a dramatization. A prime-time-crime soap opera. The producers, writers, cast, everyone involved admit that the procedures and forensics don't mesh with the reality of how crime labs actually operate, and that the science depicted is sometimes more science fiction than fact.

If you can make peace with that, it's very entertaining, and it might just get viewers interested enough to research the realities.

[Chovexani]

80. No one's arguing whether or not it's entertaining

CSI is a very entertaining show (as least the original--Miami and NY are total dreck).

But it is not a "smart" show, which is the point of the list.

[Raejeanowl]

88. I Take Issue, My Friend

It's "smart" because it does introduce and deal with issues of science/forensics in crime-solving. Rather than who boffed whose husband, etc.

Is it on the same academic level as Cosmos? Of course not.

[MorningGlow]

69. And courtroom dramas

There's nothing funnier than sitting in front of the TV with my brother, a criminal defense attorney, watching a courtroom drama. Usually he multitasks by doing "homework" (working on his cases) with only an ear cocked toward the TV, but when a courtroom drama comes on--stand back. Every 30 seconds, without looking up from his legal pad, he'll spout, "Objection." ... "Objection. Leading the witness." ... "Asked and answered." ... And eventually just, "You can't do THAT!!!"
:rofl:

[northzax]

83. it also, ironically

has made the lives of real forensic investigators more difficult, especially in court. the CSIs on the show (between interrogating and arresting suspects (not to mention the occaisional shooting) are always completely certain that X bullet matches Y gun, or that blood spatter means Z, or whatever. In reality, that's not really the case, it has lead juries to expect a level of forensic science beyond the capabilities of pretty much anyone but the FBI, and mostly even them.

[TZ]

86. Well I kind of prefer that

To people who can have oodles of DNA evidence thrown out because there is a 1:999,000 chance that its wrong...
Real scientists almost never serve on juries cause lawyers don't want people who actually UNDERSTAND forensic evidence.

[GirlinContempt]

31. Word.

[Skittles]

52. YOU ARE SO CORRECT, BENNYBOY

that show is utterly RIDICULOUS

[EstimatedProphet]

2. You don't remember the International Math Competition on Mad About You?

Or when they had Richard Feynman come on the show?

[Auggie]

3. I could think of some others:

Scientific American Frontiers (hosted by Alan Alda)

The Paper Chase (canceled after one season, but it was sooooo good)

NOVA (duh!)

[Gidney N Cloyd]

4. Wasn't Paper Chase picked up for more episodes on PBS?

I don't recall how long that lasted.

[Auggie]

17. Mmm... according to imdb.com it was on Showtime

from 1983 through 1986. No mention of PBS, but that rings a bell.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0077058/

[harmonicon]

32. I don't think NOVA counts

it's mostly just a brand for PBS. Many (all?) of the shows are produced elsewhere (a lot come from the BBC) and shown on NOVA.

Still, I disagree with the list. The guy is obviously a complete idiot.

[SoxFan]

62. PBS

Actually, most of PBS shows are produced by individual PBS stations. WGBH in Boston and WETA in Washington, DC seem to be the two major players.

[Oeditpus Rex]

5. 'MASH' was cerebral?

:wtf:

[Gidney N Cloyd]

7. They're grading on the curve.

[Initech]

8. How the hell could they not pick Futurama for that list?

[PittPoliSci]

49. that was exactly what i was thinking.

at least two phd writers.

lots of other ivy leaguers on the writing staff...

what gives mensa? don't like cartoons?

[DarkTirade]

9. Y'know, I've always been one of those people who finds big brains to be attractive

And I'd never seen an episode of Cosmos until recently.

I have to say, I found Carl to be kinda attractive.

Maybe I'm just weird. :P

[baldguy]

11. .

[DarkTirade]

12. ... yeah, no.

I stick within my species. :P

[baldguy]

10. The 700 Club isn't listed?

Was that list compiled by SATAN?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

14. Apparently, geniuses don't go beyond basic cable.

[Raejeanowl]

44. Some Genuises Consider Themselves Too Smart For TV n/t

[Blue-Jay]

15. Hey, I would like to sex-up Helen Hunt as much as the next nerd...

But "Mad About You" is one of the shittiest, stupidest sit-coms EVER!

[Wetzelbill]

20. that is definitely one of the top ten subject lines of all time

:rofl:

[Dr. Strange]

35. WRONG!

Mad About You was one of the fucking wittiest shows ever! It intersected Seinfeld in both a fictional and nonfictional context--pure brilliance! It is the War and Peace of situation comedy.

Except for the end when the baby was born. MABEL? WTF?

[SoxFan]

63. Helen is a pseudointellectual fetish object

She's Paris Hilton for the Utne Reader set.

I always thought she was a remainder bin version of Meg Ryan, but that's just me...

[Blue-Jay]

85. HA!

Utne Reader is probably my favorite magazine!

[Zavulon]

18. M*A*S*H is no more cerebral than my cribbage board is.

It doesn't take a brain to be anti-war.

Oh, and if "Mad About You" is cerebral, then so is "That's My Bush." "Mad About You" fucking SUCKED. I used to sit through that goddamned piece-of-shit sitcom weekly because my then-girlfriend loved it, and all I could do is marvel at how the show actually made "Friends" look pretty clever by comparison.

[Wetzelbill]

19. Arrested Development might be the most intelligent show

I have ever watched. It's a comedy, and an outrageous one, but that show was pure effing genius. And it had so many little "in" jokes etc. If you got those jokes, oh man, it would nearly kill you. Brilliant stuff.

[Initech]

34. Hell yeah!

As is "Mr. Show", another David Cross gem.

[Wetzelbill]

36. I just watched his tour documentary "Let America Laugh"

That's very good. Yeah, Mr. Show is great. Tobias Funke, just another great character on that show. I loved Mrs. Featherbottom, haha.

I have to go, I need to read Bob Loblaw's Law Blog. :)

[Initech]

42. We're not here to talk nonsense to Bob Loblaw.

:rofl:

[Wetzelbill]

47. see lines like that

That show was so brilliant. Man, I miss it. I suppose it would have been tough to keep that brilliance up forever, because of the show's style and all, but still, I hated seeing it end.

"You don't want double talk; you want Bob Loblaw".


"Bob Loblaw Lobs Law Bomb"

:rofl:

[Anarcho-Socialist]

55. Oh yes, that show is the best

[Wetzelbill]

58. The mere fact that you're calling it that tells me

that you're not ready to post on this thread. :rofl: :rofl:

[The2ndWheel]

67. That show blue me

[Wetzelbill]

68. you should get a tape recorder and listen to yourself

Narrator: On the next Arrested Development, Tobias listens to a day's worth of his own recordings to see what Michael was referring to.
Tobias Fünke: Even if it means me taking a chubby, I will suck it up!
Tobias Fünke: Nothing wrong with that.
Tobias Fünke: I've been in the film business for a while but I just cant seem to get one in the can.
Tobias Fünke: Context...
Tobias Fünke: I wouldn't mind kissing that man between the cheeks.
Narrator: And he realizes there IS something distinct about the way he speaks.
Tobias Fünke: Tobias... you blow hard!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

71. Hmmmm...

Tobias Fünke: It's interesting that Lindsey is attracted to a man (Ice) who is exactly my type!

[Rob H.]

76. Absolutely!

It was worth watching for Tobias' unwitting double entrendres alone. And Ron Howard in the final episode? Bwah! :rofl:

[lildreamer316]

21. STUDIO 60 ON THE SUNSET STRIP,bitches!

Yes, I know that got covered with "West Wing", but I don't care.

[tandem5]

54. I'll second that! nt

[NNadir]

22. And this is important how?

Let me guess, the guy took an IQ test when he was in third grade and we're all supposed to think that watching TV is "intelligent."

It doesn't take a genius to recognize that the IQ test is meaningless garbage.

[murielm99]

23. You sound jealous to me.

Obviously, the guy was giving his OPINION in this piece. You could have agreed or disagreed with it, just like everyone else in the thread. Instead, you have to act like you are in GD: P.

[NNadir]

26. Yeah, I'm a real idiot.

I'm obviously deficient when compared to a guy who is famous for taking a standardized test invented by 19th century psychometricians trying to understand retardation and promoted ever after by grateful racists.

Besides being a television critic, may I ask what other grand accomplishments the "genius" has?

Let me guess...

He is also an accomplished critic of the scientific literature, having completely demolished Gould's arguments about the applicability of Spearman's factor analysis in the Mismeasure of Man.

Oh, and I've seen one or two of the "genius" shows. They were all tripe.

I googled the "genius," by the way and discovered that besides winning the Nobel Prize for the reinterpretation of crystal field theory in a post-Pauling revision subject to the exact solution of the famous, previously insoluble three body problem in physics, Werdell holds an MBA from Wayne State University and has served as the reserve sheriff of Solano County.

[murielm99]

29. There was no reason for you to take a crap on this thread.

Everyone else was giving their opinion about his opinion without being nasty.

I get it that you think you are better than this guy, or anyone else who uses a test to measure intelligence.

Mensa uses many types of tests other than the Stanford-Binet to set membership guidelines. If you don't like what they do, then avoid them.

Who said you were deficient? You are defensive, at the very least. Every time there is a mention of Mensa on this board, at least one person here has to let us know how horrible it is that anyone has ever tried to find a way to measure intelligence, or that intelligent people might possibly want to form a social club based on some sort of measurable criteria. What could be wrong with that? The next thing you know, Democrats will want to get together on a message board to discuss their common interests.

[kristopher]

56. Mensa International usually uses the Raven's Progressive Matrices

It's one thing to be dismissive of IQ tests, they are of limited practical use. However the vitriolic attack mode is a sign of a deeper problem. NNadir's reaction is actually fairly typical of some who always considered themselves intelligent, but didn't make the cut when they took the test. I've also seen that kind of mean spirit in schools and work environments when a reasonably intelligent person feels threatened by someone that is obviously gifted.

Personally, I think it is the result of an arrogance laced with hate that some unfortunate people harbor towards those that are anywhere below them. The mediocre meanies look down their nose at "inferiors" and then naturally assume that the mentally gifted look down at them in the same way. Maybe they're right, I don't know. But I suspect that as the ability to make sense of complexity (that's one def. of intelligence - the one I prefer) increases, the need for the emotional prop of arrogance diminishes even for the most insecure.

And just for the record, I understand that the Raven's test is a fairly accurate predictor of success in life (however that might be defined - a lot of very intelligent people aren't motivated by the things most in society consider important).

At least, that's my take on it.

[GirlinContempt]

33. I love this post.

[northzax]

84. so is your point here

that Wayne State isn't a good enough school for you, or that a reserve Sheriff can't be intelligent?

just askin' cause if the school and resume makes the man for you, I know this one guy, MBA from Harvard, two time governor of a major state, two time President of the United States. pretty good resume, he must be brilliant!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. Awwwww, I Think You Need A Hug.

:hug:

There there, it'll alllllllll be ok.

[TZ]

51. Hey

Don't be bringing that GDP crap in here....:rofl:

[SoxFan]

64. Screw Mensa!

I come up about six points short on my SATs.

Harumph!

[Fire Walk With Me]

24. What, no Prisoner or Twin Peaks?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

25. How about "Picket Fences" and "MST3K"?

Two very cerebral shows, and two of my faves.

[devilgrrl]

27. 'Jeopardy' isn't nearly as hard as it was 20 years ago

These days any dolt can get on... seems like it anyway

[IntravenousDemilo]

45. Hey, I resemble that remark!

BTW, one of the recent J! contestants said that she used to be in Mensa until her husband said, "Is it really that smart to be paying an organization sizeable membership dues to tell you you're smart?"

[GirlinContempt]

60. LOL

that's great :D

[pokerfan]

50. and here I thought I was getting smarter

[woo me with science]

74. I love the questions that go something like this:

"Strip chart temperature recorders with movable bi-metallic element assemblies are used in laboratories in Boston, which is the capital of this US state."

All you have to know is that Boston is in Massachusetts. But, damn, you LOOK smart!

[fudge stripe cookays]

87. .

:rofl:

:thumbsup: I took the test a few years ago. Unlike Intravenous, I didn't make it that far! I will never forget the name "Hogwarts" again (this was before Harry Potter became a cultural institution rather than just some kids' book), then there were the March family (I never read "Little Women", let alone "Little Men", which the question was based on), or the Warsaw Pact nations (the Eastern Bloc's version of the UN-- for whatever reason, I had a mental block, and could not think of anything besides SALT).

They give you a REMARKABLY tiny interval to answer each question, and only take the top 5 scorers as possibles. PLUS, they make the test even harder than the show to weed out folks.

[mreilly]

28. Where is LOST??

Sorry, but the Mensa guy omitted the most intellectual show on television. I've never seen a program that has compelled me to think so much - not just about the plot, but about reality overall.

Personally, the CSI/Law and Order crap bores the daylights out of me. I find these shows repetitive, pointless and depressing - who enjoys watching shows about gruesome murders or missing kids?

[murielm99]

30. Yes.

Lost was the first show that came to mind for me, too.

[Doc_Technical]

37. The General Electric College Bowl.

n/t

[kath]

38. What about Veronica Mars??

Sheesh.
IMHO, that show is SO much more intelligently written than all the other dreck out there. so sad that it was cancelled last spring. :-(

[momophile]

90. you got that right!

great show. so sad to see it gone. still rumors of a movie.

[Bennyboy]

39. Northern Exposure?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. Mensa My Ass. The Mensa Part's Irrelevant. He Just Simply Posted A List Of His Favorite Shows LOL

I would bet my bottom dollar that's all it is. Wanna know why? Cause there's NOTHING inherent within any of those shows that separate them from others in their genre. No rhyme or reason. Just completely random.

He just posts a list of his favorite shows and is laughing his ass off about how people think it's actually a real list, and stroking his own feeling of superiority by proving to himself that he's smarter than others since they're falling for this crap.

But not this mensa member. This mensa member knows that list is just simply a list of shows he really really likes, and not much more lol.

[SoxFan]

65. DING DING DING!!!

We have a winner!

Why "Cosmos" and not "Nova"?

Why "MASH" and not "St. Elsewhere"?

And for the love of all that is good and righteous, WHY IS A SHOW STARRING WILLIAM SHATNER CALLED INTELLIGENT?!?!?

[IntravenousDemilo]

46. I'd have listed "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and "The Simpsons" before a couple of his choices. n/m

[Raejeanowl]

48. Perhaps He Confuses Witty With Intelligent

You do need a commanding ability to parse synonyms in order to score well on an I.Q. test, but it doesn't require absolute accuracy, you know.

While I wouldn't exactly call it cerebral, M.A.S.H. was indeed viewed by some critics as an adsurdist political commentary in it's early years (mid-1970s); but it soon jumped the shark into a vaudeville-infused war sitcom.

I notice that no one is arguing about "Cosmos." Buy the book, buy the boxed set. Carl Sagan rocked.

As for the publication of the list in general, well, I guess NBC 4 was having a slow news day?

[tandem5]

53. CSI? Really? nt

[kristopher]

57. Here you go, the original interview with criteria used to judge

With television writers – presumably the brains of the whole operation – going back to work after their four-month strike, it seemed like the perfect question to ask: What are the smartest TV series of all time? Star Trek? Hill St. Blues? Taxi? West Wing? Boy Meets World?

Fancast posed the question to Jim Werdell, Chairman of MENSA International, the worldwide organization for “people from every walk of life whose IQ is in the top 2 % of the population.” In addition to a soaring intellect, the 63-year-old retired Northern California government official enjoys his TV. Werdell keeps his set on as he tackles daily MENSA duties on his computer, estimating that time about 10 hours of background listening. “I’m actually watching and paying attention about five to six hours a day,” he says.

Like his IQ, that’s still way more than the 170 minutes a day the average American spends watching TV. With those qualifications (MENSA member for 29 years, 12 years on the board of directors of MENSA America, and IQ of – well, “we don’t talk about that,” says Werdell), he seemed the perfect individual to ask for a list of the 10 Smartest TV Shows of All Time, a task he studiously and seriously took on. “It was difficult,” explains Werdell. “There were programs that were good in their time, but the way shows are made today has improved.”

Werdell says the smartest shows he currently watches include CSI: New York, Law & Order: SVU, House, Stargate SG-1, NCIS and Numb3rs. But for the ultimate list of Smartest All Time shows, he ventured beyond his personal viewing habits. As he says, “I was a Star Trek fan. It was on the original list. It was groundbreaking, no question. But the follow-up, Next Generation, were better programs than the original, in my opinion, and smarter.”

“I had a number of shows in that situation,” he adds.

His criteria?

“They weren’t pure comedy, mystery or action,” he says. “They tended to be shows that dealt with issues in the world, and from my perspective that’s considered smart. Some sitcoms reach a higher level of intellect than others, and you can say the same about some of the dramas. The stories may be cliché, but the characters and dialogue are smarter.”

Finally, continues Werdell, “after much thought – well, a bit of thought anyway – here are my selections for the top 10 Smartest TV Shows of All Time:”

Top ten smartest shows of all time (in no particular order):

1. M*A*S*H – It had smart repartee and was so much more than a comedy.
2. Cosmos (with Carl Sagan) – Sagan was able to communicate something extremely complicated to the layman and do it well, and that’s unusual for a scientist at his level.
3. CSI -- The way they use science to solve their programs is intriguing to viewers.
4. House – Again, it’s high level type of show; it’s the personality that makes it a winner, plus it deals with science.
5. West Wing – you had to pay attention to stay up with it. The repartee was fast and furious and you needed a fairly high level intelligence to keep up with it.
6. Boston Legal – It’s primarily because of the characters. The story lines are okay, but the characters are incredible and the writers give them great dialogue.
7. All in the Family – The show dealt with social issues before its time and was on the forefront of trying to show people’s feelings, beliefs and the complexities of personality, in both a serious and comedic way.
8. Frasier – The repartee was sensational; the main characters were very good. Even though they portrayed people who were likely of high intelligence, they also showed their weaknesses.
9. Mad About You – It’s a personal favorite, I loved the characters and the back and forth. It was very smart.
10. Jeopardy – It’s about the only game show that really tries to test people’s intelligence. There’s very little luck involved, and there are few game shows like that. I don’t watch it all that much honestly, but from what I’ve seen it tests more than knowledge, it tests intelligence too.

http://thebiz.fancast.com/2008/02/exclusive_mensa_chair_picks_th.html

[kentauros]

70. CSI beat Stargate?!

riiiiiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhttt, suuuuure, whatever you say...

I take it he's never seen the movie "Manhunter" (by Michael Mann) for a taste of what the forensics and procedures should look like (at least in my opinion, since I have no forensics background...;))

I'll have to forward this to Joe Mallozzi. I'm sure he'd be interested :)

[terrya]

59. I'll definitely agree with "Fraser". I always thought it was a smart show.

Very well written and clever. A far, far cry from a "Will and Grace"

[woo me with science]

72. The nice thing about Frasier

(noticed the last time I saw it) is that they don't explain their jokes, puns, or allusions. They just assume the audience will get them.

[SoxFan]

61. BOSTON LEGAL?!?!?

Sweet raisin danish, people...

"Cosmos" is PBS, so that's cheating. You could fill the whole list with Cosmos, Nova, American Experience, Frontline, etc.

MST3K: Lots of obscure political, literary, and cultural references
Lost: Intricate plot with elements of physics both quantum and meta
Simpsons: See MST3K; never insults its audience

[Chovexani]

81. I am so glad someone mentioned MST3k

Not an episode went by when I didn't have to go look at least one reference up.

[BlueIris]

66. There was this series called "The X-Files."

Fucking moron.

[SoxFan]

82. Agree!

The X-Files had lots of goofy little easter eggs aimed at ufology/cryptozoology/forteana nerds, too.

And Gillian Anderson?

[underpants]

73. Clearly this list was compiled before "My Daddy is better than your Daddy" aired last night

:wow:

[Enrique]

75. no "Married with children"?

:wtf:

[Lex]

77. Mensa?

:rofl:

[Shell Beau]

78. I knew I watched most of those for a reason!!

:P

[Chovexani]

79. Proof that no matter how smart you are

You can still have shitty taste in TV. Mad About You? Is he for real?

[momophile]

89. hello? Veronica Mars! shit for brains! nt

[JCMach1]

91. What, no "Twin Peaks"? Idiot!