Marry Him! -- The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

[Blue_Tires]

About six months after my son was born, he and I were sitting on a blanket at the park with a close friend and her daughter. It was a sunny summer weekend, and other parents and their kids picnicked nearby—mothers munching berries and lounging on the grass, fathers tossing balls with their giddy toddlers. My friend and I, who, in fits of self-empowerment, had conceived our babies with donor sperm because we hadn’t met Mr. Right yet, surveyed the idyllic scene.

“Ah, this is the dream,” I said, and we nodded in silence for a minute, then burst out laughing. In some ways, I meant it: we’d both dreamed of motherhood, and here we were, picnicking in the park with our children. But it was also decidedly not the dream. The dream, like that of our mothers and their mothers from time immemorial, was to fall in love, get married, and live happily ever after. Of course, we’d be loath to admit it in this day and age, but ask any soul-baring 40-year-old single heterosexual woman what she most longs for in life, and she probably won’t tell you it’s a better career or a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment. Most likely, she’ll say that what she really wants is a husband (and, by extension, a child).

To the outside world, of course, we still call ourselves feminists and insist—vehemently, even—that we’re independent and self-sufficient and don’t believe in any of that damsel-in-distress stuff, but in reality, we aren’t fish who can do without a bicycle, we’re women who want a traditional family. And despite growing up in an era when the centuries-old mantra to get married young was finally (and, it seemed, refreshingly) replaced by encouragement to postpone that milestone in pursuit of high ideals (education! career! but also true love!), every woman I know—no matter how successful and ambitious, how financially and emotionally secure—feels panic, occasionally coupled with desperation, if she hits 30 and finds herself unmarried.

Oh, I know—I’m guessing there are single 30-year-old women reading this right now who will be writing letters to the editor to say that the women I know aren’t widely representative, that I’ve been co-opted by the cult of the feminist backlash, and basically, that I have no idea what I’m talking about. And all I can say is, if you say you’re not worried, either you’re in denial or you’re lying. In fact, take a good look in the mirror and try to convince yourself that you’re not worried, because you’ll see how silly your face looks when you’re being disingenuous.

more at the link: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/single-marry

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Personally, even though I disagree with most of what she said, I'm not exactly her target demo (single male, 31, never married, no kids)...However, since I've been having my all-too-familiar problems in the dating scene, I've been kicking around the question myself: IS there ever a time to stop looking for what we view as idealized love, and start looking for Mr./Ms. Consolation Prize?

For a long time I was always the kind of person who would rather stay single for life rather than compromise what I wanted in a woman (even though since college I have slashed my 'no compromise' list by two-thirds)-- But now I am starting to reconsider, since you can only stand the loneliness so long...

I guess my bottom-line question for the lounge is this: all things being equal, is it better to hold out or settle, given a choice? have at it...

[PassingFair]

1. Stop it, Mr. Romantico!

"IS there ever a time to stop looking for what we view as idealized love, and start looking for Mr./Ms. Consolation Prize?

For a long time I was always the kind of person who would rather stay single for life rather than compromise what I wanted in a woman (even though since college I have slashed my 'no compromise' list by two-thirds)-- But now I am starting to reconsider, since you can only stand the loneliness so long..."


:sarcasm:
My advice for you: STAY SINGLE.
What woman COULDN'T resist being your "consolation prize"?

[Blue_Tires]

4. love has made a cynic out of me, i guess... n/t

[PassingFair]

6. "Love". Your "Idealized Love" or a REALISTIC, committed relationship

between equals?

The latter may not always last forever, but it would NEVER
leave you a cynic, it would just leave you wanting another.

[Blue_Tires]

11. good point

i should rephrase...it isn't love itself that has made me cynical; it is specifically my failures in the search for love that has made me cynical (that and a lot of other things as well...)

[PassingFair]

12. Hey, all snarkyness aside....

DON'T SETTLE!

You'll find someone you want to be with who
wants to be with you.

THAT'S what LOVE is.

It can last a lifetime, or ...not!

No one knows what cards are coming out of the deck...

[Ellen Forradalom]

2. I think that author needs to pry her eyes away from her navel

and think about more important things.

Self-aggrandizing middle-class people agonizing over their life choices got so old so fucking long ago.

[Dangerously Amused]

3. The grass will be greener no matter the choice.

If you let it.

Happiness is a mindset more than a fortunate convergence of ideals.

[Ellen Forradalom]

5. Yeah. The author has a writing career,

can support a child on her own, has good friends to help out, and hasn't been beaten to within an inch of her life by her drunken husband. What the hell is there to complain about?

[supernova]

7. In a word: No

Don't Settle.

Nobody wants to be the consolation prize, neither the man nor the woman.

Women got married before the Feminist Movement because THEY HAD NO OTHER CHOICE but to rely on a male bread winner. Even if she didn't love him. Even if he wasn't all that in the bedroom. Even if he drank heavily or couldn't keep a job. Even if he abused her. Sometimes all at once.

We weren't allowed to earn our own money or have our own property, even get a loan or a credit card at the bank, we had to have a man's signature. And that's even without control over our fertility.

What man really want's a woman who can't really take care of herself much less him and a family? I never understood that about the old days frankly. Men were caught in that trap too, because they were taught to define their worth as husbands by what they could provide primarily, not the love and affection and desire that they could kindle and return.

Being independent doesn't mean that I, a woman, don't need or want people in my life. Ever. It simply means I am in a more centered and thoughtful place to consider a relationship and what kind of relationship I want. It means I don't have to marry the first meal ticket that comes along just to have a meal ticket. I can look for someone with whom I can share a deeper bond than just mutual economic support. While that is important, it's not the sole reason to get married anymore. And I for one am glad.

I can't think of anything worse than sharing the intimacies of daily living with someone I don't really care about, nor he me.

Personally, I'm looking for a man I can share an interdependence with. Mutual dependence and respect. I love 'em tough and tender. And someone who is happy with me the way I am. I would be happy to rely on such a man, emotionally. But deciding I want to rely on a man is very very different from needing to rely on a man out of desperation because I can't make it on my own.

Now that I've said all that, you do get more realistic about people as you get older. You realize no one is perfect. That there are perhaps a lot of people that you could be compatiable with and would feel like the Grand Love of your life. And that's a great feeling when it happens. :-)

I don't think anyone should rob themselves of that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. I agree, supernova

I'm single, and I'd love to be "double," but the days when I would "settle" for someone just to have children or financial security are long gone. I've seen too many bad marriages, ones that make me think, "Whoa, there ARE worse things than being single."

One of the men quoted in the article (coincidentally, I read it today) apparently just wanted a housekeeper, because he talks about getting his "passion" from his work and companionship from his friend. I'm certainly glad I'm not his wife!

At this stage of my life, I want someone who is good company and can share interests and pastimes and values. The pattern of "he goes to work and has his life there; she stays home and builds her life around the children" doesn't work for me and never has.

During my ventures into the middle-aged dating scene, I see too many men who would NOT be good company. They may be great dads to their children and affluent enough so that I'd never have to translate another corporate report, but their intellectual and emotional deadness, their underlying grumpiness, and their over-reliance on conventional wisdom would stress me out more than any loneliness or financial privation.

At this point in her life, the author of this article may merely be wishing that she had someone at home to help with child care.

[PRETZEL]

31. I sort of got that opinion also,

At this point in her life, the author of this article may merely be wishing that she had someone at home to help with child care.

She seems to be making an attempt to rationalize her own decisions that it's time to bring in a "partner" into her so-called "business" of raising a child and running a household. I may be totally off base but I got the impression that she didn't really want to settle for "Mr. Goodenough" but that option was the best solution for her at this stage of her life. And not knowing how old she was I sort of felt that this would be ok with her until that time that the kids were grown and out of the house and she could refocus on her life.

I may be the poster boy of "settling" but that wasn't always the case. I had thought way back in 1984 that I married "Ms. Perfect". We did everything together and shared the same values and outlook on life. But we were also young and as time goes on, life takes on new meanings and roles. The last 5 years of our marriage was the prototypical "business". That wasn't to say that we still didn't care about each other, we did and to this day I know I still care that she is happy and doing well, but we did lose many of the qualities that had brought us together in the first place.

That being said, I ended up "settling" in my second marriage. I think we both did but for different reasons. I didn't think that at first but over the last few months I'm starting to feel more and more that this wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done. It's not that I don't love my wife but I've made decisions and have allowed things to occur solely on the fact that it would make her happy not thinking those same decisions would come back to haunt me dearly.

[Blue_Tires]

54. am i the only one

who doesn't understand the whole "business partner" terminology for relationships? none of the married couples i know can really be called that, imo

[BlueIris]

82. Woah. With all due respect...

I think you should read the last paragraph of this post again about five times, and really think about what it tells you about your situation. Yikers. Therapy?

[redqueen]

34. ...

"deciding I want to rely on a man is very very different from needing to rely on a man out of desperation because I can't make it on my own"

:loveya:

[supernova]

38. Backatcha

:loveya:

:D

[Blue_Tires]

53. thank you for your insights

[dorktv]

8. Depends, do you want a divorce in ten years?

Seriously, wait until you know you are ready. Otherwise it is just a divorce waiting to happen.

[LeftyMom]

9. Settling is bullshit, unfair to both parties, and a really fucked up situation to bring a kid into.

If a professional woman wants a kid that bad, and there's no suitable potential life partner in the picture, that's what sperm banks are for. "settling" is just snagging some good-enough guy to play house and get the bills paid until she's ready to raise the kids without him. If they're not wildly in love or compatible to begin with, how happy are they going to be with a colicy baby and a late minivan payment?

Being a single parent is one of the hardest things anybody will do, but it's a hell of a lot easier than being a parent in a failing relationship.

[BlueIris]

19. Best. Post. Ever.

[NNadir]

13. The real problem is that men, believe it or not, are human beings.

None of us are without flaws and drawbacks, and none of us wish to be perfect.

The essence of love, if you must know, is forgiveness; and those who are perfect cannot be forgiven.

I've been married now almost a quarter of a century to the same woman and to be perfectly honest, I have never thought of loving anyone else, mostly because she has always tolerated my many flaws. She sees them; she knows them; she suffers them; and then forgives them.

Your post reminds me of what Kahlil Gibran wrote of love:

But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears...

Weep, but not all of your tears. I can't think of a fate worse than that.

[RoyGBiv]

14. I love the way that's set up ...

If you don't agree with me, don't validate my own obsessions, you're an idiot. Basically, if you're not like me, you're abnormal. Great way to rationalize.

You don't settle. Ever. The word itself means you aren't getting what you want, and if you aren't getting what you want, what is the fucking point? If what you want is some plastic model creature, and you can't get that, you still don't "settle" because you will be hurting the person for whom you "settle" by obsessing over that plastic model creature you really wanted instead. Being single is not a horror. Humans are not inherently driven to be involved in relationships with someone, anyone, no matter what, just so we can say we are. That's a social construction, and you don't have to fall for it.

Me? I'm single. I "settled" long ago, had a daughter, and the "settling" made it all very difficult. I am very proud of my daughter now, proud of the relationship we have been able to develop, and, to use a trite phrase, I wouldn't give her up for anything. I would not go back in time and undo it. But I did "settle," and it was wrong for me to do so. Many people suffered far too much pain for far too many years because I did, because we did. My ex-wife is not a horrible person. She's a wonderful person, in fact. But she's not what I wanted in a partner, and I wasn't what she wanted. We settled because we fell for the hype, and we created far too many years of stupid drama because of it.

I was single and celibate, intentionally, for 7 years until a woman showed up in my life who is very clearly not someone for whom I will "settle." We're not now "together" in a traditional sense, but we're together in the way we define. It took us both a long time to get to a place where we could do that, and we're happier for it. The word "settle" never enters into it.

[REP]

15. "Really wants a husband ... and a child" - Horseshit!

Wanting to be married isn't the same as wanting a child.

Just because she was so desperate whelp that she had to resort to donor sperm doesn't mean other women who want children have to get married to get sperm donations.

This whole piece of crap woman=mommyism twaddle is just another case of look-at-meism, like the woman in public reading much too loudly to her children so others can watch her being a good moomy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Oh, there's one of those at my local coffee shop!

She comes in with two little boys and proceeds to read aloud to them at full voice while they're looking around in other directions, anywhere but at her.

[Blue_Tires]

52. very true....like i said

i'm a guy (and one who isn't in any rush to have kids, if ever), so a lot of the stuff she wrote rang hollow to me

[billyskank]

16. I'm a guy who is always overlooked and passed over

I see people continually falling for people who make them unhappy. And yet they keep doing it, sometimes even with the same people, that they know make them unhappy. Maybe you can't do anything about the people you're attracted to, even if they're bad for you. All I can say is that there are people out there who would love to share their lives with somebody, but nobody ever gives them a second look. I know I am not the only one, and some of these I know are really wonderful people. It seems to me that there are a lot of you out there who continually make bad choices. Maybe you can't help it. Maybe people like me are destined to be alone while most people keep on "settling" for assholes. Maybe it's because they don't know there really IS something better out there. Maybe "something better" genuinely doesn't DO it for them. Maybe it's just the way of the world.

[Darth_Kitten]

23. Maybe you just haven't found that right person......

in the meantime enjoy your singledom. Seriously. If people settle for assholes (and I've seen this and it makes me cringe) then how content and fulfilled are they really?

I'm on the fence when it comes to companionship. I'm a loner by nature so anyone I meet will have to accept that I need my space (and willing to give them theirs) I've seen too many people "settle". I just couldn't give that much emotional energy into something or somebody my heart wasn't set on.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. You may not yet be "in your prime" when it comes to relationships

You seem like an interesting and funny person. If you can keep yourself reasonably presentable (i.e. you and your clothes are both clean, and you aren't an alcoholic or drug addict), you'll find more women looking your way as they grow out of their immature "love those bad boys" phase.

[Rob H.]

39. Some women never grow out of that phase, though, imho

I know a woman who's soon to marry a guy I figured out is an asshole within the first 15 minutes of the first time I met him. He's 47 and she's 46.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. Yes, but most do grow to appreciate mosre stable men

and you just have to ignore the ones who still go for the alcoholic abuser who's been in prison three times.

However, older women also have less tolerance for boring men, i.e. the ones who are okay except that all they can talk about is sports and their job and what was on network TV last night.

[Blue_Tires]

51. i'm in the same boat

i've felt the same about being overlooked, while some of my friends who are much more shallow, crass and verbally abusive when it comes to women never seem to sleep alone...this is the same cunundrum i've been going over in my mind again and again...

so until then, i must remain patient...but hopefully my luck will change before i'm ready to join the viagra crowd:)

[asthmaticeog]

71. Yeah, that's it, billyskank. There's something wrong with women.

As a class, they settle for "assholes" rather than smother YOU with all the attention and wuv and warm fuzzies that are your due! Oh, curse their bad choices! Love, after all, is supposed to be automatic happiness, right? How can it be love if they're not walking on clouds 24/7? But you can get them there, you bet'cha!

OR, maybe you only think those guys are "assholes" because that, by self-flattering comparison, makes you a "nice" guy, or, in your own words, something better. Myself, I don't understand what's so much more to like about someone who's whiny, manipulative, attention-craving and self-obsessed. Those ain't knight in shining armor traits, billyskank.

You may now proceed to post "Oh woe is me, the bad man on the internet is a meanypants! No wonder I'm so wonewy!" Then your regulars can flock to post your daily validations, and you will sleep well tonight.

[elleng]

17. Its COMPANIONSHIP

that we really need; GO for it.

[kwassa]

18. what are you holding out for, and what are you settling for?

Don't look for idealized love, look for real love, a connection, an attraction, someone who shares the same values, interests, and aspirations, with enough in common that creating a relationship is natural rather than constant work, a joy rather than labor.

By the way, I've never believed in the concept of "soul mate", we all fit together a little awkwardly, at least. There is no perfect relationship, but there are some very good ones.

I think wanting a wife and family is pretty natural, it was for me. One thing that helped me tremendously is when I completely rid myself of the idea of what this person had to look like. The visual was getting in the way for me. All kinds of possibilities suddenly opened up.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. YES!

One of my exes had a roommate who was fixated on a certain physical type. It never seemed to occur to him that all these women had different personalities.

[Blue_Tires]

48. good points....thanks

[BlueIris]

20. "To the outside world, of course, we still call ourselves feminists..."

Maybe you should stop doing that. Feminism is about self-respect.

[Blue_Tires]

25. yeah, this story is chock full of head-slapping idiocy

especially since she continually interchanges marrying 'love' with marrying just for a wallet, or good looks, or reproductive innards...

I almost feel sorry for her because her e-mail box is gonna get blown the hell up!

[BlueIris]

29. I feel sorry for her because...she lacks self-respect. But also because she put her name

on this piece of crap. In a few years, once the consequences of "settling" (as a "writer" and a spouse) have finally revealed themselves, she might regret having published this shite.

[redqueen]

36. Amen. (nt)

[Ellen Forradalom]

60. The ever-quoteable BlueIris scores again!

:-)

[BlueIris]

74. Hee. I am ever-quotable.

That is awesome!

[unpossibles]

21. my motto: keep your spirits high and your standards low!

just (sort of) kidding, but I also believe in being realistic. I know a lot of people who will wait for the mythical Mr./Ms. Right without realizing that they may be being unrealistic. I love my wife not only for the amazing things we have in common, or that she is brilliant and beautiful and creative but also for all of the so-called "faults" and "problems" and things we don't agree on, and she feels the same way. In fact, in some cases, I dearly love certain things she dislikes about herself, and vice versa.

I know I am lucky, but part of it is also understanding that we're all human, and while there are some things and values you should never compromise on, such as someone being abusive and/or a Republican, many of the little details in life can still be interesting even if not "perfect."

Back to the original article, I think it is both grossly oversimplified and also generalized. Most people in life - men and women - want to find someone they can love and share their lives with, but some do not, and it's not necessarily a bad thing to pursue a non-romantic passion and live your life the way you want to, single, dating, or otherwise. Yes, as we get older, we almost all feel a certain 'freak out' and concern, but love can be found at any age if you keep your heart and mind open enough to recognize it when it is not in a "perfect" package.

[qb]

22. Mr. Fabulous didn't work out for me, but I'm not going to settle

for someone who doesn't light my fire. I have found actively looking for Mr. Right to be self-defeating. I am determined to be a happy single, participate in activities that introduce me to new people and just see what happens.

[supernova]

27. I'm the same as you

"I am determined to be a happy single, participate in activities that introduce me to new people and just see what happens."

Just show up at events I'm interested in and seem like fun and just enjoy that for what it is. If somebody interesting shows up there too, that's all the better. If not, I still enjoyed myself. :-)

[EstimatedProphet]

30. I think it depends on what you mean by "settle"

And I say that because I have known a good many people - not just men - that defined their idea of the perfect partner by how they look more than any other factor. If that is what your motivation is, then maybe you should consider settling. You'll find out that a relationship based on someone's compatibility with you is much better than a relationship based on how someone looks.

[redqueen]

37. That's a good point...

I never even considered that looks would be paramount to anyone, but yeah... if it's just that, then sure.

[Blue_Tires]

47. i've never been the type obsessed with womens' bodies or faces

granted, i know what i like, but i've always said compatibility is most important...

[EstimatedProphet]

59. Then definately DON'T SETTLE!

[riderinthestorm]

32. During the bad times (and there will be bad times)

the "fire" and passion that ignites your relationship during the good times can be all that holds a marriage together.

If there aren't any real laughs/joy/shared passion/deep connection/great sex/intellectual excitement etc. etc. etc. since you just settled on "companionable", then I guarantee you that you will find yourself REALLY wanting to bolt during the inevitable low spots because you just don't have enough of those crazy, lovely intangibles to tide you over until it's good again.

Stubbornness and an awareness that underneath it all, there IS love - those are the kinds of things that keep a marriage going when it gets tough. "Settling" just doesn't give back enough passion to keep a relationship energized. "Settling" (to me at least) means that sooner or later, you WILL end up in a failed relationship.

And how shitty is that? Trying to disentangle from a family is really heartbreaking for the parents but doing it to kids? And getting into it knowing that this is pretty likely going to end up in divorce - that's crap.

And it's not a life lived honestly. There's no excuse for a middle aged person to be trying to con themselves (and others) about those kinds of fundamentals of their being. When we are young, hormones, lust and general stupidity can be blamed for making dumb relationship decisions. But this article isn't about that - it's about purposefully deciding to live dishonestly to yourself, as well as others. Pretty wrong on a lot of levels.

[redqueen]

33. GOD no, are you crazy?

The author of that piece is a nitwit.

The biological drive to partner up and reproduce is strong, and most people feel pangs of it if they're not part of it by a certain age... but is the best solution for that feeling to settle for someone so that you don't have to worry? That's just asinine! Really!

:eyes:

[Zuiderelle]

35. This is just bullshit.

"every woman I know—no matter how successful and ambitious, how financially and emotionally secure—feels panic, occasionally coupled with desperation, if she hits 30 and finds herself unmarried."

That's just plain insulting and belittling.

[Ellen Forradalom]

40. Every woman she knows?

This lady needs new friends.

[Darth_Kitten]

42. She needs to count her blessings.........

quick.

[Ellen Forradalom]

44. No shit.

And she's got a lot of goddamned nerve telling other women how they think and feel.

[Darth_Kitten]

41. Thing is, I'm close to 40.......

and yeah, I want a better, more fulfilling career, a smaller waistline, and a bigger apartment. :rofl:

AND.....

companionship, possibly a child to love and nurture, travel, good friendships, etc, etc, etc.

and DK doesn't settle. I've been telling myself I won't settle for a long time now. :)

[prole_for_peace]

70. I totally agree.

I am 42, unmarried and child-fee and I feel NO desperation or panic. I do have a long term bf but neither of us cares about the whole marriage and/or children thing. We might be moving in together this summer but that is just because he might buy a house and I don't like mine and want to move.

[mcscajun]

78. "Every woman she knows"...Both of them.

:rofl:

[supernova]

43. Alternate Honest Version

if the author were honest with herself, she would have written something like this...

"Gee, I didn't realize growing up would be so hard. It's really hard to have a kid on my own. I wish there was someone here to share this amazing experience with me. But I decided to do it alone anyway. I'm cool with that, wouldn't change it for a thing, but it would be nice to have someone to hand off to, nonetheless.

It's so difficult to have a kid and a career. I never realized the kinds of trade offs you have to make sure you meet all of your responsibilities to your child, to your career and employer.

Gosh, I never realized that other people have to make choices about work when they have kids. They don't follow their dream to work on Broadway; they go to work in an office to get a steady paycheck so the kid can someday go to college. I got to be a paid writer, but not everyone gets to follow their dream. Their children become their dream.

Maybe the guys I used to date weren't so bad. Maybe some of them would have been great husbands and fathers, but I broke it off with them for superficial reasons. Maybe the guy with halitosis was a caring man who just needed to go to the dentist. The guy with the football fetish nevertheless still gave me back rubs, even in the middle of the game! They sometimes innocently forgot my birthday or our anniversary, but none of them abused me or was mean to me, ever.

Gee, I guess I should think about seriously looking for someone who shares my outlook, who accepts me for me and whom I can accept for himself, and also would be a good father and mentor to this little one I have brought into the world. "

[Ellen Forradalom]

63. Yes, growing up is hard.

It's hard for everybody. Hardly anyone does a perfect, or even a good, job of it. So quit moaning about it, missy.

[SocratesInSpirit]

46. A good question...

I believe if you are marrying someone because you love them and could see yourself spending the rest of your life with them... full steam ahead.

If you are marrying someone for any other reason - e.g., to stave off loneliness, you can't find anyone "better"... probably not a good idea.

Bottom line, if I wasn't 100% sure I wanted to marry someone or felt a twinge of "cabin fever" when I pondered the idea of spending the rest of my life with them, I wouldn't do it. :)

[Ellen Forradalom]

49. This kind of writing is focused precisely on middle and upper-middle class women

Rich women can do whatever they please (Paris Hilton, for example) and poor women are beneath the media's consideration, but everyone loves to bully the woman in between.

Work, don't work, get a degree, get a graduate degree, get married, have 2.2 kids, don't weigh too much don't weigh too little, get bigger boobs, love yourself, marry the next guy you meet, you go girl. Ah fuck all of it. It's extremely conformist and oppressive.

[Chovexani]

56. Seriously

I'm tired of this co-dependent nonsense being passed off as what women should do. Fuck that noise.

God help me for quoting Beyonce but I'm an independent woman, I depend on myself. I don't need a partner to be fulfilled in life. They just add to it. Nor does the ability to pop out crumbsnatchers make you a "real" woman.

[lightningandsnow]

65. Thank you.

I live in an upper-middle-class neighborhood, and these are sadly the expectations.

My next store neighbor asked me a few days back where I'm going to graduate school.

I said that I'd likely rather not, at least not right after university.

She said "But you HAVE to get a graduate degree these days! Otherwise you'll never have a good job!"

For god's sake... I'm 16 years old!

[Ellen Forradalom]

66. Oh for fuck's sake. What a nosy parker! n/t

[Bucky]

50. When I hear that women out there are willing to settle down with second rate guys

I feel a little twinge of hope...

[Darth_Kitten]

55. now that's funny.

:rofl:

[yardwork]

57. No! This is just silly.

Through most of it's history, marriage has been a social and economic contract. The idea that "being in love" has anything to do with getting married is a new idea, unique to a few places in the world.

Love is a wonderful state, but it happens unpredictably, and that head-over-heels ecstatic state doesn't last that long. Far better to focus on one's personal happiness, develop a good sense of oneself, become economically and socially independent - and let love find one wherever and whenever. The choice to marry or not is beside the point.

I got married right out of college to a really nice young man. We had lots of things in common. I knew that I was not passionately in love with him, but I liked him more than I liked any other man I'd dated, so we got married and eventually had two children and lived together in harmony until....when I was 45 I fell head-over-heels in love with a woman.

I realized that I'm a lesbian, have been all my life, and allowed myself to be led down the primrose path of "find a nice young man, settle down, get married, have kids, house with picket fence..."

Now, three years later, I live in my own condo, supported entirely by myself, co-parent my two teenage children, and visit with my partner (who has her own place) several times a week. No marriage. No need for marriage.

My advice - focus on your self. Self-actualize like mad. Achieve what you want to achieve. Reach high for everything in life. Love will come, or not, but never settle for second-best. Never.

[Zephyrbird]

58. Lord, how bitter she is!

And don't men get tired of being thought of as a bottomless pocketbook? Or just somebody to be bossed around by a bitter, desperate wench who "settled" for him?

I find this woman's column to be full of self-pity, and correct me if I'm wrong here, more than a little self-centeredness to consider men in this light. No "feminist" would disrespect another human being in this manner. It's all about equality, not having everything we want regardless of another person's feelings.

I'm 52, female, and a serial single person. I never wanted to be married or have children, and I've never regretted it. heh! And I'm not the Virgin Mary, either! :evilgrin:

Better that than to inflict myself upon an unsuspecting, innocent male for whom I "settled." I'd not be able to look at myself in the mirror, all right--I'd have no self-respect.

So there!

Zephyr

[supernova]

61. See my #43 Alternate Honest Version

I agree with you.

[Zephyrbird]

62. yup, I read it before I posted.

The sentence about growing up being so hard was spot-on!!!! That said it in a nutshell.

Zeph

[Ellen Forradalom]

64. Here's a thought: Get a vibrator and a dog.

The vibrator turns on with the flick of a switch, and the dog will be warm, faithful companionship who will never abuse you.

[S n o w b a l l]

67. Sounds like the rebellious daughter of

Phyllis Schlafly who's instilled guilt is catching up with her. I can tell you that at 30 I was definitely more concerned with my waist line than having children or a husband. And at 51, I still am.

Who the hell is this woman? How utterly insulting to intimate that every woman lives to have children and a husband.

As far as settling or holding out, your priorities will change. I still believe in old fashioned love and when that happens, then you'll know what to do.

[BlueIris]

75. Yeah, no kidding. She's going to regret publishing this, I think.

If she hasn't already. Her poor spouse!

[Taverner]

68. It all depends

People need to stop thinking everything in life is either/or.

If being married and having kids is most important to you, and you are nearing the end of your childbearing years, then you might want to consider settling.

If getting what you want exactly in another person is most important to you then don't.

And there are gradations in between.

This is a bit like saying "vanilla ice cream is good - YES OR NO?"

[lizerdbits]

69. Ugh

As a single (almost) 34 year old woman I never wanted to have kids so I never felt this kind of desperation to "find a man." The way I see it for me is if I meet someone I meet someone, if I don't I don't. I'm going to do things I enjoy anyway so it's not that important. I knew when I was 17 I didn't want kids so the 'mother auditions' that was most of the dating in my 20's was a really bad eye rolling experience for me. Sometimes I think a companion might be nice and other times I'm glad no one is here when I get home from work.

What disturbs me is referring to being unmarried as being alone/lonely. Just because I don't live with a husband doesn't mean I'm lonely or alone. I may be physically alone at home (except for a cat which I've found preferable to most relationships I've had and I can always buy toys if a sex drive ever returns) but I do have friends, family, and a job in a field I really enjoy.

Something else that's disturbing is seeing the husband she should have settled for as basically a sperm donor who she can dump when she meets someone better or gets tired of him (at least that's how it came across to me) which would relieve her of financial difficulties and give her some free time when he gets the kids. (She didn't think about that BEFORE having a child?!) I don't see much difference between that and a man getting married for the uterus, housework and hot dinner waiting when he gets home from work. No one should be in a relationship where they are treated like or seen by the partner as some kind of service provider.

I think the alternate version is accurate and very funny. It's hard to believe this was written by a 40 year old instead of a 22 year old.

[BarenakedLady]

72. Do.not.settle.

x(

[NewWaveChick1981]

73. Seconded!

:hi: "Settling" is NEVER a good idea.

[Inchworm]

76. Thirded!

Life is too short to risk settling for a less than you want existence.

:hi:

[mcscajun]

77. "Settle" is a word I struck from my personal vocabulary a good 18 years ago.

Settling means taking/getting/having less than you want, less than you need, less than you deserve.

As to loneliness, you can be far, far lonelier sleeping next to the Wrong Person than you would be sleeping solo. Been there, done that.

[El Fuego]

79. "Idealized love" is just self-love.

The question is whether some people can put their self-absorption aside. Perfection in their romantic partner is just validation for them of their own perfection.

I'm basing this on people I know. Example: I have a beautiful girlfriend who is desperate for a husband and kids. But she can't stand it if a guy is losing his hair, or maybe he has a slight paunch, or he's not tall enough ... she's 45 now and still single, and always will be from what I see. Because she loves herself too much to ever love anyone else!!

[Wcross]

80. I decided a long time ago I would never marry.

I enjoy my freedom too much.

[amitten]

81. It's about CHEMISTRY. The rest is all B.S. (looks, etc.) n/t