DU women; Do you see a man as a potential mate, or a project with possibility's.

[puerco-bellies]

My last two S/O's thought that I was quite worthy of mate-dom, but needed mental conditioning to mold me into the right stuff. A strange comment by a woman that I lived with for over 8 years. As we were moving my stuff to a buddy's apartment she said that one of the sad things about our breakup was that some other woman was going to be the recipient of years of her hard work. She often said that I was raised by wolfs.

In a month I will marry for the first time and I know Alison loves me as well and more likely better the my last SO. She comments that I still have some smoothing out on a corner or two, but at least I'm housebroken... Am I just a wreak of a human being, or is this a common project approach to finding a man as a mate

[NewJeffCT]

1. speaking as a guy

I've heard comments like that a lot over the years - not mental conditioning, but being housebroken, or similar - edited to add: things like "well-trained". And, I don't mean just applying to me - but, women talking about their boyfriend/fiance/husband as well.

[shanine]

2. I look for perfectly imperfect

and someone I can go out with in public, someone flexible who doesn't sweat the small stuff, non judgemental.
I'm probably older than you . . and know that I am not going to change much and I don't expect anyone else to change either.
:smoke:

[MissMillie]

3. I already raised my kid

at 43 I don't want to have to raise another one.

He should not only be ready to be a partner, but he should be easy to live with.

[lizziegrace]

4. When I got married, we were both young

I was 22, he was 23. I married the man I hoped he'd become.

If I ever married again, I'd marry the man he *is*.

[supernova]

11. DING DING DING

We have a winner.

"I married the man I hoped he'd become."

Women are so future oriented, we often think about what *will* happen, instead of just appreciating the present.

Speaking for myself I married someone whom I thought would "grow out of" his problems. But of course he didn't. He is what he is. If I had been older, like now :silly: , I would have understood that.

So now, I'm looking for someone who isn't a fixer upper. He's just fine the way he is.

[lizerdbits]

14. Sounds like a friend of mine

He tries to convince her he's a drug addict due to her nagging, not supporting him, etc when he just doesn't want help and had the problems years before they met but hid them well before they were married. 9 rehabs and 2 jail sentences later she's FINALLY getting a divorce. And when he's locked up again for stealing to buy crack it will be her fault for not supporting him. :eyes:

[lizziegrace]

15. Same here

as is, warts and all...

[lizerdbits]

12. Absolutely

Making another person some kind of project is just ridiculous and IMO dehumanizing. None of us are perfect and we all have little things that will bother a spouse/partner but if the rest of the relationship is worth it we will deal with each other's quirks.

[lizziegrace]

16. I didn't set out to make him a project

He still had years of schooling left (ended up with a doctorate) and I believed all the hours and days I spent alone as the result of him dealing with school would change once he had those letters after his name. It didn't. Turns out, that's who he was.

I put him through his masters and doctorate work hoping that when it was done, we'd see what we really could be as a couple. Didn't happen.

I lived in hope. He was never a project to me.

[supernova]

18. Same here

I didn't realize I was putting myself in situation with someone who wasn't a whole personality in the beginning. When I realized what the situation really was, I tried for a while to rationalize it by telling myself "oh, he'll get help." Find the right doc, the right meds, and then he would love me back; we could really be a couple ... someday.

It took a long time for me to realize "someday" would never come.

*sigh* Today, I'm just glad to have my peace of mind.

:pals:

[lizerdbits]

19. Sorry, the "ridiculous" comment wasn't directed at you personally

I hope you didn't take it that way. I was referring to the apparent "training" that has been mentioned. You were obviously in a different situation. :)

[lizziegrace]

20. No problem

:)

[NewWaveChick1981]

5. I just look at guys for who they are.

:) When I was dating, I just wanted to get to know the guy for who he was. I had no intention whatsoever of "molding" him or "improving" him. I also was not looking for "husband material"; I just wanted to enjoy the experience. IMO trying to change someone is just stupid---people only change if they WANT to change, and that's not for me to inflict. I was in no hurry to find a guy or get married. I knew my husband for nine years before we got married, and even then, I wasn't sure I really wanted to get married. We've been married for over 15 years now, and I think I got it right. :) But he and I have both discussed the fact that we have NEVER tried to "improve" each other, and that's one reason we've been together as long as we have. We've had our share of problems, but that's another story----however, we started off as friends, and that says a lot.

I don't know if your experiences are very common, but that's not how I viewed dating.

[Karenina]

6. What you SEE is what you GET.

I ALWAYS start there and have learned to PAY ATTENTION to the little red flags up front. Often there are big red flags that remain hidden until its more difficult to extricate oneself. BAD IDEA to make a man a "project."

[crispini]

7. This is an interesting post.

I'd like to observe that some -- not ALL, but SOME -- guys, in their single days, live like cavemen, you know, pizza boxes all over the house, not doing laundry for days, wearing shirts with beer stains, etc. Usually this is the younger male, but I have also known some older males who live like pigs. It's the kind of thing where, you look at them, and you go, if we were to move in together, I couldn't stand to live like that, and one hopes he would make an effort to keep some of the house nice, and give him a corner for chaos that one could close the door on. ;)

I don't know if this is you or not. You don't mention exactly WHAT your last two S/Os thought 'needed reforming,' lol.

I have to admit I wouldn't undertake to do any major renovations, but maybe some cosmetic work. :evilgrin:

[NewJeffCT]

8. you're right - it is some guys

my ex-wife was the one that would have a pile of dishes in the sink, mountains of dirty clothes in the house, etc - and it did happen, as I had a couple of business trips where I went away for 3-4 days and would come back to find a pile of unwashed dishes in the sink, an empty fridge, coffee stains on the carpet, etc. What really bothered me was that she worked a part-time job and my job was very demanding in terms of hours - so, I'd be working 70-80 hours a week, and she would work 15-20, maybe 25 once in a while. But, I'd end up doing almost all the housework and was the one getting up at 4:15 AM to walk her dog...

I wasn't perfectly neat & clean, but at least I did laundry, vacuumed regularly and would clean up a spill immediately.

Probably why my ex's mom & aunt would say how well-trained I was.

[crispini]

9. LOL. :)

Indeed.

[SKKY]

10. I once had a girlfriend say to me, with a straight face...

..."You're so perfect. Why won't you be how I want you to be?" I never got that.

[bikebloke]

13. Been there, done that

I once dated a woman who thought I wasn't american enough. Through all my travelling and living abroad, I absorbed a lot through osmosis and adaptation. She even suggested I start wearing a baseball cap. I'm surprised I stuck it out so long with her, as she had other problems (and I other offers from other women). But I learned my lesson. If they can't accept me as me, then move along.

[intaglio]

17. By coincidence, todays Dilbert is linked below

http://www.comics.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20080224.html

[NewJeffCT]

21. LOL!

that is cute.

[Withywindle]

22. Ugh, that perspective gives me the creeps!

I have empathy from the other side, because when I was in my 20s I was MESSED UP - and I wound up living with a guy who was a stoic "knight in shining armor" type who wanted to take care of me and "fix" me. A bit of a rescuer. The character Jack on LOST reminds me of him a LOT.

He meant well, at least originally, but wow, our relationship turned into a seething mass of resentment. Him because I didn't respond well to his "suggestions" and wound up letting him pay an unequal share of the expenses because I was just sinking further into drink and depression. Me because he was paternalistic, a nag, and didn't treat me as an equal. Once our sexual chemistry died--which didn't take long after we moved in together and the "mystery" was gone--there wasn't much left.

We managed to part amicably. I still wish him well and I think he thinks fondly of me sometimes. But I never want to participate in that dynamic again, from either side of it. (I know very well what it's like to be the partner who's made to feel like s/he isn't good enough as is.)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

23. My dear puerco-bellies!

I never saw my husband as a project...

I respected him as he was, and I still respect him!

And he did the same for me...

He did see places where I could be helped to grow up, and he challenged me to do that...

And I did grow up quite a lot with his help!

We've both grown in our relationship, but this is a natural thing, a consequence of living together for many years...

We still love and respect one another...

Those are key...

I'm sure you and Ali will be very happy!

:hug:

[SarahB]

24. I see him as the man he is.

I love him for him. We are all a product of our experiences and I'm thankful that the ones he's had made him the man he is. I can't imagine wanting to change him though.

[LaurenG]

25. I always tend to see the inside "job"

if there are too many negatives as far as agreeing on party affiliation, I won't even look twice. If the heart isn't in the right place it's never going to work out. So no I don't need to make a person my project, I don't want to fix them, but I do appreciate a conscious person willing to work on themselves.

[Critters2]

26. Yes. Depending. nt

[Rob H.]

27. I know a woman who's now engaged to her 'fixer-upper'

When I found out from a mutual friend that she got engaged, the first thought I had was, "Oh, so she's finally molded him into someone she's comfortable marrying." He has his faults, but I've since found out that she's done some things that are pretty sketchy, too, imo; she told him that if he loved her he'd quit his good-paying job thirty minutes away and move closer so they could work on their relationship or else she'd break up with him, for one. (He did quit his job and it took him eight months to find another one.) From what I can tell as an outsider, the relationship has been mired in power struggles from the very beginning. FTR, he's 47 and she's 46 and they're both acting like spoiled teenagers.

Anyone can straighten up and fly right long enough to convince someone they're marriage material. It doesn't mean that any real change has happened beneath the surface.

I give 'em three years, tops.

[hippywife]

28. Congrats on the pending wedding!

I'm really happy for you and Ali. Many more happy years ahead for you both. :hi:

[Firespirit]

29. It's a funny thing

I'm bisexual and unattached, and I have very different "standards" for men vs. for women.

I see men through the lens of "one strike, you're out." Certain views and certain habits in a man put him out of the running permanently, no chance of being a potential mate or a project. I think this is because in my life, literally EVERY heterosexual couple I have ever known well has been dysfunctional in some way, absolutely no exceptions.

But if I look at another woman, I'm a lot more lenient about things I perceive as flaws or potential incompatibilities.

I don't, however, see a person as a project. If I entered a relationship it wouldn't be for an "altruistic" purpose such as improving the other person. I'd approach it with deadly seriousness.

[Haole Girl]

30. I'll just say this...

Please make sure both of you accept each other just the way you are.

People are not "projects" and should never be seen as something to mold or shape into something else.

From everything I've seen you write, here on du, it seems like you've found your soul mate.

I just wanted to throw that out there... for what it is worth.

Congratulations, btw! :hi:

[zanne]

31. It just isn't a good idea to think you can change a person...

IMO, it doesn't happen. Sooner or later, we get back to being ourselves and the jig is up.

[SOteric]

32. Neither of the above. I'm not looking for marriage, and I don't do missionary work.